Monsters that are Tough for their HD

[dextercorvia]

I'm looking for monsters that make good simulacra. What are your favorite creatures efficient for their HD?

[Herabec]

For their HD, or for their CR? I find HD to only be a measure of their hit points, really...

If we're going by CR, I'd go with Huge Fire Elementals (CR...7, I think?) and capable of dealing immense amounts of damage to those not prepared with protection vs. fire items/potions. Lots of HP too.

HD wise, though, I'd go with a Beholder. Only around 60hp, but capable of obliterating an unlucky party in a round or two.

[Ernir]

Planetars? 14 HD, 17th level Cleric casting. Black Ethergaunts cost 16 HD, and give you Wizard casting.

Do you need something more? Elemental Weirds (15HD, MM2) for free action divinations? Simulacrum tends to be pretty busted in general. Do you have a specific Charop objective in mind?

[Optimator]

Dracotaurs are pretty burly.

[Runestar]

Creatures with innate spellcasting, since it is independent of their HD. Solars and planetars would be the most obvious choice. Ghaele would be cheap, 6HD but still gives cleric14 spellcasting. :smalltongue:

[Divide by Zero]

While CR is totally borked, things with a high CR/HD ratio tend to be pretty good. Most outsiders in general, since they tend to draw their power from special abilities more than HP and BAB and such.

[ShriekingDrake]

That Damn Crab (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a)
Allip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/allip.htm)
Leech Swarm (Stormwrack)
Meenlocks (MMII)

[Johnny H]

I'm away from books at the moment, but I remember the huge-ant-queen-thingy being a very solid choice (lvl 17 sorcerer casting), and also efreeti are great for extra wishes :smalltongue: if your DM allows it...

[Jack_Simth]

Allip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/allip.htm)
Incorporeal critters probably don't work well for this, as it's kinda hard to get a piece of one for the Simulacrum material component....

Generally, though, Simulacrum are expensive enough that you don't want them for use in combat, but for utility - Planetars (base 14 HD, cast as Cleric-17's, no relationship between HD and casting given, nor is one obvious), Trumpet Archons (Base 12 HD, cast as Cleric-14's, no relationship between HD and casting given, nor is one obvious), Ghaele's (Base 10 HD, cast as Cleric-14's, has some very useful at-will Spell-like abilities), Efreeti (base 10 HD, the ability to grant 3 Wishes to one mortal each day), Solars (Base 22 HD, Cleric-20 casting with no relationship between HD and casting given, nor is one obvious, 1/day spell-like Wish, and a few other useful spell-like abilities), or the Glabrezu (base 12 HD, 1/day Wish).

... and that's just Core.

Of course, the most useful Simulacrum is a copy of yourself... decked out in perfect (or as perfect as you can get) mundane copies of all your equipment (Fabricate), and then sealed up for easy deployment later (Shades -> Trap the Soul).

[dextercorvia]

Planetars? 14 HD, 17th level Cleric casting. Black Ethergaunts cost 16 HD, and give you Wizard casting.

Do you need something more? Elemental Weirds (15HD, MM2) for free action divinations? Simulacrum tends to be pretty busted in general. Do you have a specific Charop objective in mind?

Nothing specific. I was in one of Maho's Necrofests the other day, and started thinking about how a different sort of wizard might raise an army. I haven't spent much time behind the screen in 3.5, so I'm not the most qualified when it comes to knowing what monsters are best for what.


Creatures with innate spellcasting, since it is independent of their HD. Solars and planetars would be the most obvious choice. Ghaele would be cheap, 6HD but still gives cleric14 spellcasting. :smalltongue:

Nice Find.


Incorporeal critters probably don't work well for this, as it's kinda hard to get a piece of one for the Simulacrum material component....

Generally, though, Simulacrum are expensive enough that you don't want them for use in combat, but for utility - Planetars (base 14 HD, cast as Cleric-17's, no relationship between HD and casting given, nor is one obvious), Trumpet Archons (Base 12 HD, cast as Cleric-14's, no relationship between HD and casting given, nor is one obvious), Ghaele's (Base 10 HD, cast as Cleric-14's, has some very useful at-will Spell-like abilities), Efreeti (base 10 HD, the ability to grant 3 Wishes to one mortal each day), Solars (Base 22 HD, Cleric-20 casting with no relationship between HD and casting given, nor is one obvious, 1/day spell-like Wish, and a few other useful spell-like abilities), or the Glabrezu (base 12 HD, 1/day Wish).

... and that's just Core.

Of course, the most useful Simulacrum is a copy of yourself... decked out in perfect (or as perfect as you can get) mundane copies of all your equipment (Fabricate), and then sealed up for easy deployment later (Shades -> Trap the Soul).

I'm sensing a trend toward outsiders. Are there any creatures that are bloated with HD, that I should steer clear from?

[Jack_Simth]

I'm sensing a trend toward outsiders. Are there any creatures that are bloated with HD, that I should steer clear from?Any melee brute monster will have a lot of HD for it's CR. Most animals, vermin, constructs (yes, you can duplicate a constructs), most undead, many dragons, the normal gamut of elementals.

[Runestar]

I'm sensing a trend toward outsiders. Are there any creatures that are bloated with HD, that I should steer clear from?

Edit: I forgot simulacrum has only 1/2 the original target's HD. Been playing too much BG2 of late. :smallredface:

Pretty much any monster which has a ton of HD, lacks special abilities and relies largely on brute force to do its work, like giants, elementals, animals and vermin. Simulacrum would reduce their HD and in turn, their HD-dependent effects like bab and hp. So you are spending a lot of cash for a rather weak fighter.

Outsiders are less reliant on HD. A 5HD ghaele would be quite vulnerable (very little hp), but they retain their impressive array of SLAs (CLW at-will!) and spellcasting. They can still turn into laser-firing globes. One attached to a party would be very useful, assuming you can protect it properly. And it only sets you back by 500gp, even less than a wand of cure light wounds.

A solar would be only 1100gp and 1100xp, and can use wish 1/day (being a SLA, it would not cost xp). That in addition to cleric20 spellcasting and all those SLAs which you can spam to your heart's desire and not run out. :smalleek:

But it also depends on what you are looking for, I guess.

[dextercorvia]

But it also depends on what you are looking for, I guess.

Basically, right around the edges of PO, where it is still an awesome spell, but no one leaves in disgust, that I just broke their game. I recognize that that depends on playstyle, but that's why I was asking for opinions.

[Runestar]

Then you may be interested in strong support-oriented characters which can buff/heal allies and generally make their lives easier but not do the fighting for them, like the aforementioned ghaele.

[dextercorvia]

Yeah, they are just about perfect.