Raptoran daggerspell shaper?

[Mithral88]

Remember when I asked about raptorans because a player in a game I'm DMing wanted to be one? If you don't, that's OK. Well, I let the player be a raptoran, but we haven't started the game yet because she can't decide what class she wants to be and I've been brainstorming fluff for raptorans in a Eberron campaign. Well, her latest idea is a raptoran druid/rogue/daggerspell shaper, or a druid/scout/daggerspell shaper. The player wants opinions on whether a raptoran and these classes will go well together optimization-wise. Personally I think it would go good with the Eberron raptoran fluff and might make an interesting backstory, but this is an optimization question.

Good thing is the idea of a dragonborn raptoran hasnt even occured to her.

[Yuki Akuma]

Daggerspell Shaper is a +1 Tier PrC, and Raptorans are a solid race. So basically yes, that's fine from an optimisation standpoint.

[Godskook]

Strictly from an optimization standpoint, Daggerspell Shaper(and Mage) has an abysmal skill list, missing a ton of key skillmonkey skills, preventing an otherwise optimized build from fulfilling pretty much any of the roles a Rogue is expected to play. Unless the DM in the game agrees(and is willing to houserule to fix this), an optimized D-Shaper who is responsible for fulfilling those party roles pretty much needs to be Human in order to grab Able Learner as a feat tax.

Personally, without that feat, I'd rate D-Shaper as -1 prestige class, but you're still a druid, so that simply means that an otherwise well-optimized PC will still wind up feeling like a tier 2 most of the time.

[Urpriest]

What do Raptorans really get out of Daggerspell Shaper though? You lose the flight while in wild shape, which is the big draw for being a Raptoran.

[Psyren]

Maybe he wants to have the option of flying without wildshape, or won't be using Natural Spell.

Or it could just be the character's concept. Either way he's in good... shape :smalltongue:

[Mithral88]

Personally I think the idea of wildshaping into something with claws with the qualities of, say, a +2 keen dagger and a +1 aberration bane dagger appeals to her.

[Urpriest]

Personally I think the idea of wildshaping into something with claws with the qualities of, say, a +2 keen dagger and a +1 aberration bane dagger appeals to her.

And that's cool, don't get me wrong, I love the daggerspell shaper. But as a daggerspell shaper almost all of your class features are about wild shape. You're not like a normal druid who can just fly around lobbing spells and still feel just as useful. So 90% of the time being a raptoran will be irrelevant to this character.

[Yuki Akuma]

And that's cool, don't get me wrong, I love the daggerspell shaper. But as a daggerspell shaper almost all of your class features are about wild shape. You're not like a normal druid who can just fly around lobbing spells and still feel just as useful. So 90% of the time being a raptoran will be irrelevant to this character.

You can still do that, though. All you lose is two caster levels.

[Mithral88]

And that's cool, don't get me wrong, I love the daggerspell shaper. But as a daggerspell shaper almost all of your class features are about wild shape. You're not like a normal druid who can just fly around lobbing spells and still feel just as useful. So 90% of the time being a raptoran will be irrelevant to this character.

Hmm, I'll bring that particular point up and see if they still want to be a Daggerspell Shaper. I have no idea if it will have any effect, my player is a fan of birds and that was the main reason for being a raptoran. I don't know, don't alot of people play druids to spend most of their time in wildshape anyway?

[Godskook]

You can still do that, though. All you lose is two caster levels.

Yes, but you run into the natural spell dilemma all over again. You're either a wildshaping D-Shaper -or- a Raptoran. Ur-Priest's point is you can't really be both at the same time, since wildshaping effectively renders being a Raptoran a moot point, and not-wildshaping effectively renders becoming a D-Shaper a moot-point, since the class is meant to enhance wildshape.

Its the same reason why nobody likes turning humans into dragonborns, but on a slightly lesser scale.