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View Full Version : half-baked idea stuck in my head: balanced by gestalt



Talya
2011-06-19, 10:39 AM
I've had something like this idea in my head for some time, and I can't think of a way to make it work.

I think some of the tier 5 and tier 4 classes offer things that cannot easily be replicated by just "taking another class." The fighter, as a simple example, is the only class that is going to be able to take advantage of the numerous feat chains that offer so many neat options...but it isn't enough to really make a straight fighter viable. Similarly, I find a lot of a monk's abilities thematicly pleasing in ways that an unarmed swordsage adaptation doesn't do, but monks are terrible


I've had this idea in my head of a "limited gestalt" houserule, for some time, where every tier 2 and lower class is assigned a gestalt pair in a game. In some cases, this is easy. For instance, Crusader//Paladin or knight, Warblade//fighter, swordsage//monk, Bard//Marshall, Rogue//swashbuckler.The idea would be to ensure the classes actually have a fair bit of redundancy and are not shoring up all of each others weaknesses...usually similar BAB and hit dice. A tier 2 class might only get an NPC class to add a little versatility. Sorcerer//expert, for instance. Tier 1 classes wouldn't need the gestalt at all. (Perhaps, for consistency, they all get //commoner. This also allows for a chicken-infested cleric, which is all kinds of amusing.) I don't want people cheesing to stack synergistic abilities like in a normal gestalt game, so one side of the gestalt would need to be entirely out of the player's control. This could allow me to give people a lot more flexibility in their character builds, while at the same time giving me a bit of control over their relative balance. I could also favor gestalt classes that fit the concept. A more martial oriented sorcerer might get warrior instead of expert. (Any sorcerer even considering the battle-sorcerer variant might get this instead.)

Trouble is, while this sounds easy, it gets complex when they start multiclassing. The law of unintended consequences ensures that someone somewhere may find some PrC that stacks with something in a way I didn't forsee. Another problem is coming up with something similar for all the variations of class combinations people might pick.

Thoughts, suggestions?

Cespenar
2011-06-19, 11:18 AM
JaronK's Tier system also names a few houserules to help balance the tier issue. Option 2 there is what you said.

Talya
2011-06-19, 11:34 AM
JaronK's Tier system also names a few houserules to help balance the tier issue. Option 2 there is what you said.

Ah, never read that. His option looks a bit more limited...does nothing to address imbalances between closer tiers. But yes, it's very much like what I had in mind.

Hazzardevil
2011-06-19, 11:39 AM
I think doing Binder and Warlock fit together quite well since they both summon beings for power and they both have rather low powered all day abilities.

Hand_of_Vecna
2011-06-19, 02:14 PM
This proposal is a little different from JaronK's option 2. Jaron proposes unrestricted gestalting of a tier 3-4 to a npc class or a tier 5-6 to any other 5-6.

Jaron's system could encourage taking the cheesiest option but the best option is only pretty good while Talya's could lead to more flavorful combo's that still have the classic weakness of the starting class like low hd, poor BAB, poor saves, lack of casting.

Talya's Gestalt = Fighter//Warblade

Jaron's Gestalt = Fighter//Healer

Big difference.