Lurk or Psychic Rogue?

[TroubleBrewing]

I'm running an all-Psionics game, and a friend wants to play the sneaky-sneaky-stabby type, and I'm torn between suggesting Psychic Rogue or Lurk. Opinions?

[MeeposFire]

Probably rogue. The fact that lurk augments cost daily augmentation points and power points bother me. Then again I don't remember the rogue that well (well the psychic one anyway) so I could be wrong.

[Ernir]

I prefer the PsyRogue too. When you have as few PP as the PsyRogue/Lurk do, I'd rather not have to spend them to activate my non-power class features. :smallfrown:

Just watch out for how the feats are selected, the class has precious few. :smallsigh:

[Kantolin]

Lurks are extremely fun, and probably one of my favorite classes in D&D.

That stated, Psychic Rogues are fairly objectively stronger classes. Most things you can do with a Lurk, you can do very similarly with a psychic rogue. So you probably want to go PR.

I do like Lurks a lot, though. ^_^ So if your group isn't terribly highly-optimized, consider lurk.

[TroubleBrewing]

Thanks for the advice, guys. We opted for Lurk, mainly because he liked the flavor and I told him not to worry about power, because Lurks are decent strength.

I mean, I told the Divine Mind to worry about power, but he opted not to listen. Now he's at the bottom of a lake, being eaten by Chuul. :smallamused:

[Veyr]

Divine Mind? In an all-Psionics game? That's impossible; the Divine Mind is not Psionic.

[TroubleBrewing]

Divine Mind? In an all-Psionics game? That's impossible; the Divine Mind is not Psionic.

He seemed pretty dead-set on it, and I didn't want to discourage him. In our second session, he was looking through XPH, looked up and said "Wow. I would have been so much better off with Psychic Warrior."

I just patted him on the back. No need to add in an "I told you so". :smallamused:

[Kantolin]

Hm. In an all-psionics game, as a divine mind, couldn't you at least go rifle through the rest of your party's head for powers, and thus be a half-tolerable character? Great versatility on powers at least.

[Veyr]

I wasn't referring to power, though. The Divine Mind contradicts all Psionic fluff ever printed. No class that is capable of falling can possibly be Psionic.

[gorfnab]

Thanks for the advice, guys. We opted for Lurk, mainly because he liked the flavor and I told him not to worry about power, because Lurks are decent strength.


If you need the Trapfinding you can use the True Thief Lurk ACF from here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a).

[Essence_of_War]

Echoing support for the psy-rogue. It is a nice bump for the rogue from tier 4 to tier 3.

Also, yikes, keep people away from the freaking Divine "I make no sense whatsoever" Mind.

If they want to be dedicated to a god/philosophy, have them put together an Ardent and let them go through the effort of using the web enhancement to customize its mantle power content. It's more powerful, more useful to a party, and more fun.

[Cerlis]

isnt the divine mind basically a psionic paladin? i dont hear people rail against paladin this much.(crunch wise)


and what fluff gave you PSychic rogue over Lurk? Arent they the same fluff ? or is it how the abilities work.

Thats what my main problem was. i was relieved when i saw ardent was about mental philosophies, but i still dislike the "I'm a Rogue/psion but as a main class" concept and "I control the power of god with my brain" fluff of those two classes. its like, a psychic character is the most likely to be anti-theistic i'd think. Divine mind?

[Veyr]

Divine Mind is hideously weak, mechanically.

It also is a complete bastardization of all Psionic fluff. It makes absolutely no sense. All Psionic power comes from within. That is what separates it from other magics. You cannot lose that power by deviating from your faith!

[FMArthur]

It's unlike the other forms of psionics, and therefore defies the rules you've constructed around what all psionics has to be. It's just magic, guys. Take a step back and look at all the other psionic powers that confer mental connections and yes, even psionic talents, on other beings. How is getting psionic power through a deity so different from this that it provokes such outrage? Getting magic through a deity has always been a little wierd, and not often done in fantasy writing, but the Divine Mind is no wierder about it than a Cleric or Paladin.

[Cerlis]

It's unlike the other forms of psionics, and therefore defies the rules you've constructed around what all psionics has to be. It's just magic, guys. Take a step back and look at all the other psionic powers that confer mental connections and yes, even psionic talents, on other beings. How is getting psionic power through a deity so different from this that it provokes such outrage? Getting magic through a deity has always been a little wierd, and not often done in fantasy writing, but the Divine Mind is no wierder about it than a Cleric or Paladin.

well actually from what i get from all the instances of mysticism and clerics and paladins and priests is that they basically channel the power of the power they worship. thats why they lose it if they misuse it, and why in cases where a cleric can do what he wants its in a setting where gods are indifferent.

big difference between. "You are devoted to me, so here is some of my power to smite the wicked and protect people" and "You are devoted to me, so i gives you psychic powers". it can make sense if you stretch it. like the military giving their soldiers riot weapons (non lethal ones) rather than normal guns. not the best example. it kinda reminds me of pre Wrath Blood elf paladins in WoW who took the holy light by force and skill at a paladin meant skill at ripping the light out of a divine being and manipulating it better than your average person.

P.S. but is Divine mind really worse than paladin? Paladins dont get spells until 4th lvl. and they only get a few crappy ones. divine version of divine mind right?

[TroubleBrewing]

P.S. but is Divine mind really worse than paladin? Paladins dont get spells until 4th lvl. and they only get a few crappy ones. divine version of divine mind right?

From what I've seen, Paladin is stronger.

Divine Mind misses out on Detect Evil, Smite, and Ride as a class skill, among other things.

In exchange, they get some weak auras and.... Nothing else, really.

[Jude_H]

In exchange, they get some weak auras and.... Nothing else, really.
Well, the DM has ML 16 and 6th level powers to the Paladin's 10/4. The Paladin's splat support might be strong enough to eclipse that difference (Spell Compendium and Complete Champion are especially Paladin-friendly), but the DM's framework does have a bit of an advantage.

Re: OP. They're both decent, but Lurks have to be remarkably stingy with PP. You'll probably want to stock up on every Psionic Device you can find, just to extend your endurance.

[TroubleBrewing]

Re: OP. They're both decent, but Lurks have to be remarkably stingy with PP. You'll probably want to stock up on every Psionic Device you can find, just to extend your endurance.

Yeah, we noticed that tonight. While the PsyWar was busy going nova, the lurk was doing the same.

During the next fight, while the PsyWar was going nova, the lurk was wondering where the hell all of his PP disappeared to. :smallannoyed:

[Gavinfoxx]

That's why Psychic Warrior is a good class, as is Psychic Rogue, but Lurk isn't... ;) ;)

[Veyr]

It's unlike the other forms of psionics, and therefore defies the rules you've constructed around what all psionics has to be. It's just magic, guys. Take a step back and look at all the other psionic powers that confer mental connections and yes, even psionic talents, on other beings. How is getting psionic power through a deity so different from this that it provokes such outrage? Getting magic through a deity has always been a little wierd, and not often done in fantasy writing, but the Divine Mind is no wierder about it than a Cleric or Paladin.
False. That's not how Psionics or Divine spells work in the fluff. This is very much spelled out. It has nothing to do with anything I have constructed, it's all in the PHB and the XPH.

[averagejoe]

The Mod They Call Me: Asked, answered, and rendered irrelevant. Locked.