Low-Level Factotum

[Rhaegar14]

If we're starting at level 2, how do I consistently make my Factotum able to contribute to combats? He doesn't need to match the warrior types, I just want a non-liability. We have myself, an Archivist/Wizard, (probably) a Warblade, and (maybe) a Ranger.

[Halae]

There's three things you have to remember about Factotums.

1. Your role in combat is flexible. you have spell-like abilities that you can use as well as inspiration points that can contribute to your battlefield effectiveness when going for regular attacks. My suggestion? Take Font of Inspiration from This Article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606) a few times. It'll really buff your inspiration points, and that means good times, especially when you can start trading those points for sneak attack damage and extra standard actions.

2. A Factotum's main ability is Intelligence. You can dump almost everything else, but your intelligence is your single most important attribute, as eventually it'll start applying to damn near everything.

3. You're skillmonkey supreme. You have literally ever skill as a class skill now. Iaijutsu Focus, Use Magic Device, Use Psionic Device. Those three skills together mean that you can shine even more than some dedicated combatants of lower tiers, not to mention the fact that skill points, once again, run off intelligence. On top of that, one of your uses for inspiration is to amp any skill you have 1 rank in by your class level. If you have 1 point in every skill you could conceivably ever need? Well done, you are effectively capable of using every skill, at only 2 less than if you had put actual ranks in it, since every time you might actually use the skill is going to be another encounter, so all your inspiration points have replenished.

On of my favorite tactics is to play as a tiefling to get the outsider type and the stat bonuses, which are delicious for factotum. You can use a spell-like ability to cast alter self to transform yourself into demons, which is all kinds of fun. And it doesn't even take anything out of your action since you burned some Inspiration points to gain another action.

Alternatively, if you get the drop on some enemies, you sneak over to the enemy, and during the surprise round, take a full attack. Apply Sneak attacks and Iaijutsu to rack up insane damage. Then take another standard action and do it again. Carrying extra weapons is suggested for this trick, but if you're willing to not spend a feat on font of inspiration, take exotic weapon proficiency to get a gnomish quickrazor, which can be sheathed and drawn as a free action :smalltongue:

[Gavinfoxx]

Just read the Factotum Handbook!

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2720.0

Basically, you have several options. Poisons, Knowledge Devotion (at level 3), Iajutsu focus + Grease + Gnomish Quickrazor, or just spamming Fonts of Inspiration.

[Halae]

Basically, you have several options. Poisons, Knowledge Devotion (at level 3), Iajutsu focus + Grease + Gnomish Quickrazor, or just spamming Fonts of Inspiration.

Why just take 1? :smallbiggrin:

[Rhaegar14]

I know that later in, arcane dilettante and Inspiration Points will be largely responsible for my combat ability, but I'm asking about those low levels when I only get a handful of Inspiration Points, only one arcane dilettante SLA that cannot be Alter Self, and I don't have the resources to make effective use of UMD.

[Gavinfoxx]

You can STILL use Iajutsu focus and Gnomish Quickrazors at level 1, dude!

[Rhaegar14]

You can STILL use Iajutsu focus and Gnomish Quickrazors at level 1, dude!

I know what IF is, but not Quickrazors.

[Gavinfoxx]

Okay. Races of Stone, there is a weapon called Quickrazor. If you take exotic weapon proficiency in it, you can basically get iajutsu damage in anything that is flat footed (ie, that you've Greased) every single round, cause the design of the weapon is such that you quickdraw it for every attack you make. I also believe that gnomes treat it as martial weapons, so Whisper Gnomes (which make GREAT factotums in general!) get it as a proficiency...

Also, you can do some INCREDIBLE things with Handle Animal, milking venom, and crafting the raw venom into usable doses of venom, which you can use with Master of Poisons. Or you could just have a bunch of war animals of various sorts (mules are cheap!)...

[Rhaegar14]

Huh. Isn't that helpful. Lol.

[Gavinfoxx]

The only problem is you don't threaten with the weapon when it's not your turn, so have a normal dagger or spiked shield or gauntlet or something in your off hand.

[NNescio]

Okay. Races of Stone, there is a weapon called Quickrazor. If you take exotic weapon proficiency in it, you can basically get iajutsu damage in anything that is flat footed (ie, that you've Greased) every single round, cause the design of the weapon is such that you quickdraw it for every attack you make. I also believe that gnomes treat it as martial weapons, so Whisper Gnomes (which make GREAT factotums in general!) get it as a proficiency...

Also, you can do some INCREDIBLE things with Handle Animal, milking venom, and crafting the raw venom into usable doses of venom, which you can use with Master of Poisons. Or you could just have a bunch of war animals of various sorts (mules are cheap!)...

Minor Creation: Black Lotus Extract = approx. 950 doses of poison per cubic foot.

And the Factotum gets to 'cast' it as a standard action, since it's treated as an SLA.

On a Related note, there's also the infamous Ghoul Glyph spell, which paralyzes opponents without allowing any saves. And it's also a standard action for the Factotum.

[Gavinfoxx]

Minor Creation is a level 4 spell. Factotums don't get it early at ALL. It's psionic minor creation that you are thinking about, they'd have to take a feat to get that. Also we don't know how big/heavy a dose of poison is in comparison to an ounce of water... Also, a 'dose' isn't always single amount in D&D (like the dose for a tiny dagger is the same for a colossal greatclub...), so, depending on DM, that huge splash might not be more than one dose, no matter how much of the stuff you manage to get...

[NNescio]

Minor Creation is a level 4 spell. Factotums don't get it early at ALL. It's psionic minor creation that you are thinking about, they'd have to take a feat to get that. Also we don't know how big/heavy a dose of poison is in comparison to an ounce of water...

Then ghoul glyph, second level. The point is that the Factotum gets to do all of this 'tricks' as a standard action instead of the usual one minute.

Also, most organic solvents are at least more than half as dense as water. Cut the number of dosages in half and you'll still be looking at 400~500 doses per cubic foot.

Edit:
so, depending on DM, that huge splash might not be more than one dose, no matter how much of the stuff you manage to get...

There are other uses for massive quantities of poison that do not involve "dumping all of it on the same creature to force NI fort saves". Which is admittedly sketchy, I give you that, due to weapon scaling issues.

Also, depending on DM, poison-milking can vary considerably in its effectiveness, since the rules differ somewhat in various sourcebooks. In most cases all it does is to let you craft poisons with a reduced material cost ('though the savings can be considerable at 1/6 price instead of the usual 3/4).

And if you're into vermin, milking venom from them will also require the Vermin Trainer (DoTU) feat, or some similar class feature.

[Draz74]

Technically, gnomes are only proficient with Quickrazors if they use Complete Warrior rules to trade their racial familiarity with Gnome Hooked Hammers for familiarity with Quickrazors. (They also have to be proficient with martial weaposn, but that's no worry for the Factotum.)

Also, Quickrazors aren't a really big deal until you have iterative attacks. And they're pointless the first round of combat. For the first round of combat, if you want the easiest way to be effective, you should use ... a greatsword. And then, after you whack flat-footed people with its delicious 2d6 damage for one round, you should carefully consider whether your Iaijutsu results are truly likely to add more damage than just continuing to use the Greatsword. (I'm pretty sure the base damage of the Quickrazor is significantly lower than 2d6.)

Factotums also can make excellent trippers at low levels (starting at Level 3), if you want to go that route.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Also, as SLA's, Factorum ignores material components. So things like Stoneskin are much more reasonable for them to cast.


Technically, gnomes are only proficient with Quickrazors if they use Complete Warrior rules to trade their racial familiarity with Gnome Hooked Hammers for familiarity with Quickrazors. (They also have to be proficient with martial weaposn, but that's no worry for the Factotum.) And who uses the gnome hooked hammer anyways?


Also, Quickrazors aren't a really big deal until you have iterative attacks. And they're pointless the first round of combat. For the first round of combat, if you want the easiest way to be effective, you should use ... a greatsword. And then, after you whack flat-footed people with its delicious 2d6 damage for one round, you should carefully consider whether your Iaijutsu results are truly likely to add more damage than just continuing to use the Greatsword. (I'm pretty sure the base damage of the Quickrazor is significantly lower than 2d6.)

Factotums also can make excellent trippers at low levels (starting at Level 3), if you want to go that route.

Iaijusu Focus can easily net +8d6 per attack

[Kalim]

At that level, I recommend being handy with Grease or Color Spray as your ARcane Dilettante spell. Keep a guisarme handy for later.

Once you get Brains over Brawn, trip the crap out of people with your guisarme. +2 bonus and +Int to your trip opposed role. When your tripped target gets up, he provokes AoOs from you and your friends who threaten him.

[JaronK]

Technically, gnomes are only proficient with Quickrazors if they use Complete Warrior rules to trade their racial familiarity with Gnome Hooked Hammers for familiarity with Quickrazors. (They also have to be proficient with martial weaposn, but that's no worry for the Factotum.)

Complete Warrior actually says that you always get all weapons that are identified with your race as martial weapons, but as an optional rule you should trade proficiencies from the PHB for new ones to maintain balance.


Also, Quickrazors aren't a really big deal until you have iterative attacks. And they're pointless the first round of combat. For the first round of combat, if you want the easiest way to be effective, you should use ... a greatsword. And then, after you whack flat-footed people with its delicious 2d6 damage for one round, you should carefully consider whether your Iaijutsu results are truly likely to add more damage than just continuing to use the Greatsword. (I'm pretty sure the base damage of the Quickrazor is significantly lower than 2d6.)

I'd prefer a reach weapon. Eventually, you can get those nifty boots that automatically ready an action to attack anyone who charges you, which is really nice.

And to make people flat footed (past the surprise round and first round), anything that forces balance checks (marbles, grease) will do the trick... and marbles are cheap enough to have plenty of at low levels. At higher levels, Blurstrike weapons will help a great deal.


Factotums also can make excellent trippers at low levels (starting at Level 3), if you want to go that route.

True, though I tend to want an Unarmed Swordsage 2 dip if I'm doing that.

JaronK

[Major]

If your DM allows Pathfinder feats take "Caught-off-guard". Any attack with an improvised weapon makes them flatfooted. Insert Iaijutsu focus automatically.

Also no -4 with improvised weapons. Kill someone with a button and laugh evilly.

Given, I tend to prefer yo-yo because I convinced the DM that the closest thing to a yo-yo on the weapons chart was a Gnomish Quickrazor. But that requires an awesome DM.

[Draz74]

Also, as SLA's, Factorum ignores material components. So things like Stoneskin are much more reasonable for them to cast.
No, the Factotum class description specifically says it's an exception to this rule.


And who uses the gnome hooked hammer anyways?
Very true. Hence why my comment was a nitpick.


Iaijusu Focus can easily net +8d6 per attack
At level 2? :smallconfused: Yikes. I've never read OA, but I think either you're mistaken or you're using Jumplomancer-level cheese to optimize your Iaijutsu checks.


Complete Warrior actually says that you always get all weapons that are identified with your race as martial weapons, but as an optional rule you should trade proficiencies from the PHB for new ones to maintain balance.
Really? Huh. Guess I remembered that wrong.


I'd prefer a reach weapon. Eventually, you can get those nifty boots that automatically ready an action to attack anyone who charges you, which is really nice.
Those boots work just fine with a greatsword, too. But yes, a Glaive or Guisarme or even Ranseur is a great option. Guisarme is obviously the best option if you go for Tripping (until you can afford a feat for Spiked Chain).


And to make people flat footed (past the surprise round and first round), anything that forces balance checks (marbles, grease) will do the trick... and marbles are cheap enough to have plenty of at low levels. At higher levels, Blurstrike weapons will help a great deal.
Lots of DMs don't allow marbles, because they're so cheap and from a semi-obscure 3.0 source. But yes, a powerful option if allowed. Better than using a quickrazor IMO (at low levels).


True, though I tend to want an Unarmed Swordsage 2 dip if I'm doing that.

Definitely. But not when the character is Level 2. :smalltongue:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

At level 2? :smallconfused: Yikes. I've never read OA, but I think either you're mistaken or you're using Jumplomancer-level cheese to optimize your Iaijutsu checks.

As a Factorum who can boost his skill checks? Pathetically easily.

[Elvencloud]

As a side note, after confirming a critical, can you use your ability to add your int to the damage roll?

[Major]

As a Factorum who can boost his skill checks? Pathetically easily.

Can I hear how? My factotum is level 3 and I can barely break 5d6.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Can I hear how? My factotum is level 3 and I can barely break 5d6.

What is your Charisma modifier?

[Major]

On the character I referenced +3, but at the same time I do have a +4 one who also isn't near the max damage.

You got ranks (in this case for someone level 2 they have max of 5) and cha.

So that's MAX 10. What are other crazy bonuses you are using that a level 2 could max it?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

On the character I referenced +3, but at the same time I do have a +4 one who also isn't near the max damage.

You got ranks (in this case for someone level 2 they have max of 5) and cha.

So that's MAX 10. What are other crazy bonuses you are using that a level 2 could max it?

Factorum and Cunning Knowledge gives you an additional bonus on skill checks.

[Major]

Equal to your level, once per day per skill.

In other words... Now we got Cha (we'll be nice and say 20, though unlikely that a factotum would have 20 Int and Cha at level 2)

So +5 and 5 ranks and +2

Now we got 12...even on a 20 we aren't to max damage and that is once per day.

Iaijutsu
Check Result Extra Damage
10-14 +1d6
15-19 +2d6
20-24 +3d6
25-29 +4d6
30-34 +5d6
35-39 +6d6
40-44 +7d6
45-49 +8d6
50+ +9d6 (maximum)

I'm not saying it is impossible, just curious how you are doing it.

[JaronK]

As a side note, after confirming a critical, can you use your ability to add your int to the damage roll?

Yup, and it'll even get doubled (or tripled) as normal for a static bonus to damage.

As for IF, I wouldn't pump Charisma... it's just not worth it. +10 Cha is enough for +1d6 damage, but +10 Str would give +5 damage anyway, so why bother pumping Charisma?

If you really wanted to optimize IF, the obvious answer would be an Item Familiar. Short of that... just buy a nice Masterwork item for it (masterwork sheath?) and get a skill boost item when you can afford it. I doubt you can do much more.

JaronK

[Draz74]

Factorum and Cunning Knowledge gives you an additional bonus on skill checks.

OK, this obviously distorted claim almost sounds like you don't even know the Factotum class at all, Shneekey ... but I don't see how that's possible, since you're generally a much more elite optimizer than myself ...

:smallconfused:

[The Shadowmind]

OK, this obviously distorted claim almost sounds like you don't even know the Factotum class at all, Shneekey ... but I don't see how that's possible, since you're generally a much more elite optimizer than myself ...

:smallconfused:

He might of been thinking Cunning Knowledge adds +Int to skill checks instead of +Factotum level. It is a common mistake actually. But that still wouldn't get that high.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

OK, this obviously distorted claim almost sounds like you don't even know the Factotum class at all, Shneekey ... but I don't see how that's possible, since you're generally a much more elite optimizer than myself ...

:smallconfused:

I'm trying to remember how my friend did it as a Crane Samurai at level 2... consistently... which is what got the mechanic banned from my games in the first place. I'm also thinking that your chart, and my chart, do not look the same. Because the one I saw required a 35 to get 8d6. Which only needs a +15 to be theoretically hit.

Honestly, I'll have to see if I can find that book, in whatever level of hell it landed in after I flung it at the golden calf character sheet

I mean, hell... a one-level dip in Marshal can do it easily enough, double your pleasure, double your CHA mod...

[Major]

Ok, so you got factotum 1 / Marshal 1.

Now you got at best a 5+5+level+5. Again assuming your factotum somehow has charisma as a 20 just like his intelligence. (Cause why would any factotum NOT have intelligence as his highest stat.)

So... +17. I'm using the chart from the book.

However, I'll let you look into it. Cause I highly doubt it works. Even optimizing I'm not sure at level 2 how you can get over that high. If you guys can get a way that'd be GREAT.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ok, so you got factotum 1 / Marshal 1.

Now you got at best a 5+5+level+5. Again assuming your factotum somehow has charisma as a 20 just like his intelligence.

So... +17. I'm using the chart from the book.

However, I'll let you look into it. Cause I highly doubt it works. Even optimizing I'm not sure at level 2 how you can get over that high. If you guys can get a way that'd be GREAT.

Even so, that's somewhere between 2d6 (assuming you roll abysmal), and 6d6 (assuming you roll fantastic). Very much nothing to be sneezed at.

[Major]

Agreed, I use it. Hell, my DM allowed close combat which makes EVERY attack Iaijutsu focus as long as I can draw some new improvised weapon... I got him to allow yo-yos as an improvised gnomish quickrazor so I can always pull it off.

However, I had been hoping for a way to easily get 8d6...guess not. I'll just have to take my max 5d6. It's good, but I was hoping for better.

[King Atticus]

Given, I tend to prefer yo-yo because I convinced the DM that the closest thing to a yo-yo on the weapons chart was a Gnomish Quickrazor. But that requires an awesome DM.

The Cadderly Yo-Yo of Death. I didn't know it was possible in game...that's pretty sweet. :smallbiggrin: