How to Design Campaigns with FATE?

[Maralais]

So, yesterday I read FATE's core rulebook thoroughly and I must say, it is THE game system of my life. Getting rid of all the complicated abilities, dice rolls etc with just adjectives that define the character and give an appropriate bonus to a simple dice roll. And FATE's exactly that.

The only problem is, how do I design adventures with it? Sure, I can design PCs and even villains, but what else? How do I define the difficulty of things to do? Are there any pre-made villains, classes or mooks? Or is it all bound to my imagination?

Oh and, is it hard to make up skills and stunts? Because you know, it is a loooong list to read, and I'd really prefer just asking players to define their characters and giving them appropriate skills and stunts, much like aspects, and then letting them using those skills and stunts on areas where it is fitting.

[potatocubed]

Some advice based on my recent adventures with Fatescape (plug plug). In no particular order:

The thing I've found about FATE is that a lot of the input for any given campaign will come from the players. The aspects they choose will tell you a lot about what they want out of the game - specifically, they want chances to invoke those aspects and moments when the aspects will be compelled to generate drama.

So it's best to have a session dedicated to character-building - or do it online via a mailing list - so that you can prep something for the first session that will hook everyone in.

Generally speaking FATE favours improv GMing: the players have a significant ability to alter the game world through use of stunts and skills, and you need to be on your toes to react to that and/or have your NPCs use their stunts and skills to screw over the players. When you plan out an adventure I've found the best way to go is to set up a situation, chuck in some NPCs, then drop the players in and see what sort of mess they make.

Regarding setting difficulties, I've found it best to set difficulties depending on how interesting the results are rather than how difficult you think it should be. Investigation difficulties, for example, are almost always very low because I want the players to have clues or other information. When using skills to create temporary aspects, I use a general rule of thumb that if the roll scores +3 over what was needed the aspect becomes sticky (within reason).

[Kiero]

So, yesterday I read FATE's core rulebook thoroughly and I must say, it is THE game system of my life. Getting rid of all the complicated abilities, dice rolls etc with just adjectives that define the character and give an appropriate bonus to a simple dice roll. And FATE's exactly that.

Which FATE book exactly? FATE2e is certainly a core book, but every FATE 3.0 incarnation is its own game and there are slight differences between them.

Beware of falling into the "everything is an Aspect" trap. Aspects and the FP economy are an enhancement to the system as a whole, not a replacement for everything else.


The only problem is, how do I design adventures with it? Sure, I can design PCs and even villains, but what else? How do I define the difficulty of things to do? Are there any pre-made villains, classes or mooks? Or is it all bound to my imagination?

You design an adventure the same way you would with any other system. You should also be drawing on the PC's Aspects for inspirations, but it still comes down to doing things the way you might otherwise do them.

Difficulties are based on the adjectives, and all the rulebooks have guidance on setting them.

Mooks are minions or extras depending on which game you're reading, they're detailed already. Granted most of the books are poorly laid out so you might not have found that yet. They should have some example minions and extras.


Oh and, is it hard to make up skills and stunts? Because you know, it is a loooong list to read, and I'd really prefer just asking players to define their characters and giving them appropriate skills and stunts, much like aspects, and then letting them using those skills and stunts on areas where it is fitting.

I'd be careful here of removing everything concrete for what you think is simplicity. FATE rests on three pillars: Aspects, Skills and Stunts. One is player-defined and rather nebulous (Aspects), two are pre-defined and concrete (Skills and Stunts).

You need at least one of each type IMO to stop characters turning into mush. Personally I think Stunts are the most disposable of those three, instead of using the lengthy, tiered examples, make them generic. Players thus define them (like with Aspects) but their effects are pre-determined (like Skills):

+1 to a broad use of a Skill
+2 to a narrow use of a Skill/Maneuvers
Substitute one Skill in place of another
Do something that breaks the rules


Optionally you might merge 1) and 2) together.

Then cull the Skill list down to suit. As far as I'm concerned all the published games have too many Skills (SotC, SBA and LoA have 29 not including special ones, Diaspora has 37!). I usually cut it down to about 20 or so, focused on the things that matter in my game. It gives the GM a bit of control over what PCs can do without having to worry about whether Gun-bunny and Accurate are equivalent Skills.

[Maralais]

First of all, thanks for the replies.


Which FATE book exactly? FATE2e is certainly a core book, but every FATE 3.0 incarnation is its own game and there are slight differences between them.

Beware of falling into the "everything is an Aspect" trap. Aspects and the FP economy are an enhancement to the system as a whole, not a replacement for everything else.


I believe I am reading the FATE 2e from Spirit of the Century, and I'll be using almost all of it, except for the stuff prepared for its setting(WWI-esque skills and items etc).

I was mostly planning on using Aspects like descriptions of character, stuff that don't affect what the character can in a mechanical way, but defines what he can do in many, many fields. And skills are, skills.



You design an adventure the same way you would with any other system. You should also be drawing on the PC's Aspects for inspirations, but it still comes down to doing things the way you might otherwise do them.

Difficulties are based on the adjectives, and all the rulebooks have guidance on setting them.

Mooks are minions or extras depending on which game you're reading, they're detailed already. Granted most of the books are poorly laid out so you might not have found that yet. They should have some example minions and extras.

Well, the SRD that I'm reading seems to have its examples ripped off for a reason I don't know, and it's really, really vague about setting difficulty(like "it shouldn't be too hard if it's not really hard), and what I'm looking for is mostly fixed difficulty levels, like CR on D&D, on some stuff. Like, a list of some hacking difficulties for some computers(32-bit requires Good, 64-bit requires Superb Hacking etc), something to give me an idea about challenging my characters(the hacking is just an example though). I'll probably follow the character creation guideline on the SRD(I really liked the adding aspects by making up pulp novels part, very creative!), so it will probably make 8-10 aspects, 1 superb, 2 great, 3 good skills...(you know, the pyramid thing), 5 stuns and so on per character, how should I set the difficulties of tasks for challenging a group like this? That is what I want to know.


I'd be careful here of removing everything concrete for what you think is simplicity. FATE rests on three pillars: Aspects, Skills and Stunts. One is player-defined and rather nebulous (Aspects), two are pre-defined and concrete (Skills and Stunts).

You need at least one of each type IMO to stop characters turning into mush. Personally I think Stunts are the most disposable of those three, instead of using the lengthy, tiered examples, make them generic. Players thus define them (like with Aspects) but their effects are pre-determined (like Skills):

+1 to a broad use of a Skill
+2 to a narrow use of a Skill/Maneuvers
Substitute one Skill in place of another
Do something that breaks the rules


Optionally you might merge 1) and 2) together.

Then cull the Skill list down to suit. As far as I'm concerned all the published games have too many Skills (SotC, SBA and LoA have 29 not including special ones, Diaspora has 37!). I usually cut it down to about 20 or so, focused on the things that matter in my game. It gives the GM a bit of control over what PCs can do without having to worry about whether Gun-bunny and Accurate are equivalent Skills.
Since I'll probably rewrite the skills and stunts list(different language and game setting), this advice will come in handy. Thanks:smallbiggrin:

[Kiero]

First of all, thanks for the replies.

I believe I am reading the FATE 2e from Spirit of the Century, and I'll be using almost all of it, except for the stuff prepared for its setting(WWI-esque skills and items etc).

SotC is the first FATE 3.0 game. This is old FATE 2e (http://www.faterpg.com/dl/FATE2fe.pdf).

Unfortunately, SotC as the originator doesn't therefore have the various innovations and advances the later games that spun off it did.

It also suffers from pretty appaling layout making it less than easy to navigate and understand. Some of the later games (Starblazer Adventures and Legends of Anglerre, in particular) copy this layout and thus have the same problems.

In addition the method of handling Stress (ie the thing that drives change in conflicts) in SotC is boring and slow. Every game since changed it in numerous ways, and even the authors themselves recognised that it needed changing.


I was mostly planning on using Aspects like descriptions of character, stuff that don't affect what the character can in a mechanical way, but defines what he can do in many, many fields. And skills are, skills.

This right here is one of the potential traps. You have Skills and Stunts for defining what a character can do. Aspects are at their strongest when they are primarily about who they are and what matters to them.

I like the approach Strands of Fate uses, the broad "Character" Aspects can be arranged along the "Aspect Alphabet" so you have Defining, Ambition, Background, Conviction and Disadvantage. Notice only the Defining Aspect is potentially about capability of those five.


Well, the SRD that I'm reading seems to have its examples ripped off for a reason I don't know, and it's really, really vague about setting difficulty(like "it shouldn't be too hard if it's not really hard), and what I'm looking for is mostly fixed difficulty levels, like CR on D&D, on some stuff. Like, a list of some hacking difficulties for some computers(32-bit requires Good, 64-bit requires Superb Hacking etc), something to give me an idea about challenging my characters(the hacking is just and example though).

The reason the examples are ripped off is because it's free and you have to buy the real product if you want the examples and guidance. The SRD is just the rules, basically. By all accounts the GM advice in SotC is brilliant, but you have to buy the book to get that.

As far as getting the system you might have better luck either with Diaspora's SRD (http://www.vsca.ca/Diaspora/diaspora-srd.html) (though it is quite a departure in some respects); or Tri-fold FATE (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4v1xSux57vyMjU4NmRmM2ItZGIwOS00ZTUyLWI0NmM tMjQ4MmEyNmFjYmIz&authkey=COW2_dYB&hl=en), Compact FATE (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4v1xSux57vyMjc1MGRlMDItZjFlNy00MTdkLWEzZjM tOWFkMjcyNmM5N2My&authkey=CMzcnu0O&hl=en) or FreeFATE (http://www.ukroleplayers.com/downloads?did=32). The latter three are the basics in much less page-count.


I'll probably follow the character creation guideline on the SRD(I really liked the adding aspects by making up pulp novels part, very creative!), so it will probably make 8-10 aspects, 1 superb, 2 great, 3 good skills...(you know, the pyramid thing), 5 stuns and so on per character, how should I set the difficulties of tasks for challenging a group like this? That is what I want to know.

This works well for some games with certain groups, and really badly for others. Strands ditches the whole idea of phases or novels, I think Diaspora does too. SBA/LoA and The Dresden Files keep it, though.

In all honesty, especially with a new group, 10 Aspects is far too many. 5-6 is a better number. You tend to get better-focused and double-edged Aspects when people can't have throwaway positive-only or negative-only Aspects.

Furthermore, a pyramid at Superb leaves characters who are really hard to challenge in their primary area. Every +1 is a massive deal in FATE with it's bell curve centred on 0. Great leaves more room for maneuver and the possibility of eventual advancement (something missing from SotC, but present in other games).

There's also an alternative to the pyramid, the column. You don't have to have more below than above, just at least as many.


Since I'll probably rewrite the skills and stunts list(different language and game setting), this advice will come in handy. Thanks:smallbiggrin:

Check out a little guide I wrote a while back about hacking the SotC variant of FATE 3.0 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116018).

There's also some brief notes about changing Stress. I'd add that you can give weapons and armour a mechanical impact too if desired (makes conflicts a lot more decisive). Essentially weapons do additional Stress (+1 to +4 Stress after a hit is scored - note NOT a bonus to hit but only damage) and armour absorbs incoming Stress (+1 to +3 after a hit is scored - not to defense).

[Delwugor]

I'm running, learning (bumbling) and teaching (confusing) my groups first Fate game (using SoF).
The one thing I picked up quickly as GM is the game is very character oriented and encouraging proactive play could very well be the difference between a successful campaign and a flop.

[Kiero]

I'm running, learning (bumbling) and teaching (confusing) my groups first Fate game (using SoF).
The one thing I picked up quickly as GM is the game is very character oriented and encouraging proactive play could very well be the difference between a successful campaign and a flop.

Assuming the players got a good handle on their Aspects and chose them to reflect the things they want to see in the game, definitely.