Kung-Fu Panda 2 (Possible Spoilers)

[Sunken Valley]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned this film so far. I have seen it and I thought it was one of DreamWorks finest films, much better than How to Train Your Dragon, all four Shreks and Kung-Fu Panda 1 (not Megamind though). Gary Oldman did a very good job as Shen and I also thought it was good that the film had a decent aesop, which you do not see often from DreamWorks. What do the forum's think?

[Killer Angel]

I have seen it and I thought it was one of DreamWorks finest films, much better than How to Train Your Dragon, all four Shreks and Kung-Fu Panda 1.
(snip)
What do the forum's think?

I have yet to see it, but I think that this is a big claim.

Edit: but I'm glad to hear that is good. :smallsmile:

[Avilan the Grey]

I have yet to see it, but I think that this is a big claim.

Especially since HTTYD is better than Megamind. :smallsmile:

[Sunken Valley]

Especially since HTTYD is better than Megamind. :smallsmile:

I accept your opinion but I said what I said because I really, really, really do not like HTTYD for so many reasons which would de-ride the thread if I said them.

[Thialfi]

I took my son to Kung Fu Panda 2 and I indeed enjoyed it. I also enjoyed Megamind, but I think How to Train your Dragon is a significant amount better than both of the other works. As far as Shrek goes, they don't make movies much worse than the last two Shrek films.

[TheEmerged]

It was an enjoyable enough movie; I feel I got my money's worth out of the ticket. However, I see no reason to ever watch it again and won't be buying the DVD.

For me that would put it below the original KFP, Shrek, and HTTYD; about on par with Megamind; and above the remaining Shrek movies.

[Sunken Valley]

It was better than Madagascar, Shark tale and Bee movie though?

Without De-riding the thread, why does everyone like HTTYD.

Does anyone one want to review KFP2 on this thread?

[Brother Oni]

Without De-riding the thread, why does everyone like HTTYD.

Manly vikings, dragons behaving like big kittens, finding your own way theme, expression of the sheer joy of flight, some surprisingly emotional moments and good snarky comments. :smallbiggrin:

[Avilan the Grey]

Without De-riding the thread, why does everyone like HTTYD.

Vikings, dragons, AWESOMENESS, fun characters, believable teenagers, more AWESOMENESS, a night fury (really should be included in the AWESOMENESS) good voice acting, and AWESOMENESS.

Shrek was fun, but basically a spoof movie.
Shrek 2 was the same.
Shrek 3 and 4? Blurgh!

Kung Fu Panda (1) is my second favorite Dreamworks animation of all time after HTTYD and Megamind is number 3. All three of these are Pixar equivalent, which is basically the highest praise you can give to an animated movie these days.

I will love to talk KFP2 as soon as I have seen it.

[hanzo66]

Even with their whole need to use big-time celebrities as voice actors and the Dreamworks Face, I do admit that I enjoy most of their films. I liked the first Kung Fu Panda, which was actually surprisingly deeper than I thought. Second one's a damn good film with some pretty good action scenes.


I liked How To Train A Dragon for several things. I found the characters quite charming in their own way, I like dragons and I especially liked how they showed the relationship between Hiccup and Toothless. You really do see them bond and see that rather than just a pet/master relationship it's quite symbiotic in how they both support each other. Then again that's going a bit off topic.

[Avilan the Grey]

Even with their whole need to use big-time celebrities as voice actors and the Dreamworks Face, I do admit that I enjoy most of their films. I liked the first Kung Fu Panda, which was actually surprisingly deeper than I thought. Second one's a damn good film with some pretty good action scenes.


I liked How To Train A Dragon for several things. I found the characters quite charming in their own way, I like dragons and I especially liked how they showed the relationship between Hiccup and Toothless. You really do see them bond and see that rather than just a pet/master relationship it's quite symbiotic in how they both support each other. Then again that's going a bit off topic.

Kung Fu Panda was, as someone pointed out, not a Cartoon about Kung Fu; it is a Kung Fu movie that happens to be made in the cartoon format. As one of those kids who fondly remembers the movies we rented in the 80ies... It gave me a second reason to love this movie.

Maybe there is a big divide between pet owners and non pet owners regarding HTTYD? As a cat owner with close relationships with both horses and dogs, I REALLY connect with Toothless.
If I suddenly got godlike powers I would 1. have a night with She-Hulk, Power Girl and Wonderwoman and 2. Create Toothless as a real species. Not necessarily in that order.

[Sunken Valley]

Have enough people watched this to make this thread worthwhile not knocking down to page 2?

[Tirian]

I liked the first Kung Fu Panda, which was actually surprisingly deeper than I thought.

Kung Fu Panda was three movies. The twenty-minute movie in the middle was surprisingly deep and beautiful, but you had to sit through the vapid "lol, fat guys are pathetically funny" movie at the beginning and the traditional "zomg, underdog triumphs against impossible odds" movies at the end. If they had had the courage to stick with the story that they obviously wanted to tell, it would have been one of the greatest family movies ever made, but they didn't have the courage.

[Jerthanis]

Kung Fu Panda 2 was enjoyable, but much more forgettable than the first. Kung Fu Panda 1 was a very traditional movie, with the exact underdog triumphing story you'd expect. However, the movie built up to the final conflict really well, upping the stakes when Oogway died, when the Furious Five together couldn't beat Tai-Lung, and when the secret technique scroll ended up being blank. The final lesson, that there is no secret technique, was a really fitting way to end the story.

The second one is, "Hey, there's a guy over there! Beat him up!" and they go over there and try to beat him up for 40 minutes. They start winning against the cannons for no good reason, and the internal conflict in Po really just boiled down to wanting to know who his parents were. When he finds out they got killed, he achieves inner peace for no reason. Even at the very end, the dialogue really reveals how little sense it made, when Po basically says, "Time heals all wounds." and then Shen says, "No it doesn't." and Po says, "Oh... yeah, I guess you're right... but I got inner peace anyway."

Also, the kung fu choreography in the second wasn't up to par compared with the kung fu of the first. The first Kung Fu Panda had fight scenes on par with some of the best in the Kung Fu genre. They made full use of the medium by making animated characters who could perform inhuman feats, and yet made it hard for us to see how fake it looked by making the practitioners anthropomorphic animals. In Kung Fu Panda 2, the villains just didn't really have any kung fu expertise. Shen wasn't an impressive Martial Artist and his forces were basically easily dispatched mooks. Numbers and the cannons were the only things to make them threatening, and neither really succeeded, since both were easily dispatched.

I liked How To Train Your Dragon because it actually was trying primarily to tell a story, and was trying to have fun along the way. The story was one of a person who is told by his family and culture that he has no value because he's physically weak, thoughful and creative, and is gentle of spirit. This character then uses the traits that were called worthless to save the day. I also liked how it justified the Dragonriding. Generally when you talk about people riding dragons I generally think, "That's like training lions to bear mice into battle and serve as their mounts.", but they really made it so together they were more than the sum of their parts. In the end, the movie basically said that taken altogether, we are unique people who are the sum of our natures and the relationships we make and the things which happen to us, good and bad... and that diversity is valuable. Without it, nations would fall. That cultures are as strong as the diversity of people it contains.

I did find it hilarious that the opening and ending narration mentioned how awful the weather was, but we see people walking around in relatively light clothing, never showing signs of being cold, having huge, open blue skies above all the time, and being surrounded by picturesque natural beauty.

[Brother Oni]

Kung Fu Panda was three movies. The twenty-minute movie in the middle was surprisingly deep and beautiful, but you had to sit through the vapid "lol, fat guys are pathetically funny" movie at the beginning and the traditional "zomg, underdog triumphs against impossible odds" movies at the end.

Out of curiousity, which 20 minutes is this?



I did find it hilarious that the opening and ending narration mentioned how awful the weather was, but we see people walking around in relatively light clothing, never showing signs of being cold, having huge, open blue skies above all the time, and being surrounded by picturesque natural beauty.

Points in order: they said the weather was bad something like 9/10 days (guessed they lucked out for the opening and ending narration :smalltongue:); they're vikings, they don't need warm clothing :smallbiggrin:; being on an island in the middle of nowhere does tend to having huge open skies; picturesque natural beauty is all well and nice if you're not busy trying to stay one step above hand to mouth subsistence farming (no wheat or other cereals, so their diet seems to consist of root vegetables, alcohol, sheep and whatever they can catch from the sea).

[MachFarcon]

The first KFP was a good family film. The second, while perhaps not BEST MOVIE EVER! quality, became more mature without sacrificing the mood or the "feel" of the first. When Po found out what happened to his village, it could have easily turned into the cliche revenge plot.

It didn't. Instead, it became a story of a person that realizes that in spite of everything, you can't change the past (without a time machine, of course).

So, in essence, it took a great film and "grew it up" without loosing what the film was in the process.

[Tirian]

Out of curiousity, which 20 minutes is this?

The part where they went into Shifu and Tigress and Tai Lung's backstories and made it clear that the dojo was a complex and subtle place before Jack Black showed up with the same fat loud ignorance that he brings to every one of his movies. It became clear that the dojo didn't hate Po because they were a bunch of elitist meanies, but because there was serious stuff going on that they had spent their entire lives training for and now their fates were in the hands of someone who treated their discipline as a joke. Shifu's ability to see the potential master in Po and to use his gifts to nurture that vision is the highlight of that movie, but once you get into the training montage it just hops right back on the train track to Genreville.

[Marillion]

While Lord Shen may not have been a kung fu master, he was a powerful and scary villain in his own right (and gorgeous to look at!). I loved Gary Oldman's acting; he made me believe he was always juuust on the edge of losing it.

And then there's the whole "killing someone onscreen" thing that not even Tai Lung really did.

[Sunken Valley]

@ Tirian: how would your 20 minutes have become a feature length film?

@Jeranthis: Shen was a kung fu master as his moves were based on those of the beijing olympic acrobats. He was just more dexterity based then Tai Lung. He also did not have all the sympathy that Tai Lung has (to the point where the writers removed stuff about how his parents did not pay attention to him and left Soothsayer to look after him.) Also the quote about wounds healing went like this.
Po: Scars heal.
Shen: No they don't. Wounds heal. Scar's don't heal.
Po: Well I guess they fade? The point is I learnt inner peace.
This shows how Po is able to let go of the past and Shen is not.

[Brother Oni]

The part where they went into Shifu and Tigress and Tai Lung's backstories and made it clear that the dojo was a complex and subtle place before Jack Black showed up with the same fat loud ignorance that he brings to every one of his movies. It became clear that the dojo didn't hate Po because they were a bunch of elitist meanies, but because there was serious stuff going on that they had spent their entire lives training for and now their fates were in the hands of someone who treated their discipline as a joke.

Po didn't treat their discipline as a joke. Like many kung fu 'fans', he idolised them but didn't realise the years of hard training they've had to put in to do all that 'super cool kung fu stuff'.



Shifu's ability to see the potential master in Po and to use his gifts to nurture that vision is the highlight of that movie, but once you get into the training montage it just hops right back on the train track to Genreville.

I quite like the conversation between Shifu and Oogway about peach trees.

However the training montage is about the only way they could have done it, plus it's a staple of kung fu movies.

[Avilan the Grey]

The part where they went into Shifu and Tigress and Tai Lung's backstories and made it clear that the dojo was a complex and subtle place before Jack Black showed up with the same fat loud ignorance that he brings to every one of his movies. It became clear that the dojo didn't hate Po because they were a bunch of elitist meanies, but because there was serious stuff going on that they had spent their entire lives training for and now their fates were in the hands of someone who treated their discipline as a joke.

It doesn't seem you watched the movie. Po doesn't treat the training as a joke; it is the exact opposite. He takes punishment, willingly, that makes the Furious Five impressed.

[Mordar]

It may have been too long since I've seen the first KFP, but I was really struck by the backdrops/backgrounds for all of the non-dream sequences. While I didn't care for the design of the city, I did marvel at the detail. The village, landscapes, temple and ruined panda village, on the other hand (or more accurately, "on another part of the same hand"), were fantasticly detailed and, for me, beautiful.

The movie itself was pretty enjoyable - my only complaint had to do with the redirecting of the cannonballs. Sure, there's a lot of "insta-learn" going on as it is a short movie...but Po gets it right with the water (soft style, gently changing the direction and momentum of the drop, never working directly against it) and wrong with the cannonballs - at least a few times. Circular motion and redirection...not nearly catching and turning 90 degrees.

Anyway, liked it. Loved the way it looked.

- M

[Tirian]

@ Tirian: how would your 20 minutes have become a feature length film?

I don't really know. The really nice thing about those twenty minutes is that they showed me something I had never seen before. Adding around it to make 80 minutes of something that I'd never seen before is a hard thing for me to envision, even if I were a filmmaker (which I mostly am not).

Here's my pitch. The story centers around the dojo with the Furious Five heavily involved in training and performing to the delight and adoration of the village. It is clear that they are at the pinnacle of their respective forms, but the dojo is a coldly formal place with tension between the members and between the members and Shifu and Oogway. Oogway makes a prophecy that Tai Lung will be released and only a great champion will overcome him that needs to be chosen, and then you go into flashbacks and see that Tai Lung is the source of all the tension and that everyone needs to have this obstacle overcome.

Then you've got the selection scene of the Furious Five exceeding their own excellence and Oogway choosing a neophyte from the village anyways and then dies after reinforcing that he made the correct choice. This causes more resentment and friction both within team and towards Po, who isn't prepared for the discipline of training himself. This is the twenty minutes of the film that already exist, where Shifu realizes that he can motivate and train Po, but we'll add in a bit making it clear that the FF also aids in the training as their own catharsis. After a brief while, Po has developed the Panda Style which is informed by everyone else's techniques but is also highly experimental and feeds off of Po's wonder and delight of learning kung fu.

Finally, in the last third of the movie you have Po unsealing the Dragon Scroll and finding it blank and reflective and being confused while the FF go out to fight Tai Lung. They lose. Then Po comes out and gives the FF the wisdom of the Dragon Scroll which is that after you have learned everything the world knows on a subject the next stage has to come from within. Then Po fights Tai Lung, and while the new Panda Style is briefly confusing and frustrating, Tai Lung wins again. Come on, Po only started training a week ago, life isn't a Hollywood movie. But then you get the FF coming back having learned from Po's teaching and combining their own lifetime of training with what they picked up from Panda Style. And using their teamwork freely and joyfully, and THAT is enough to defeat Tai Lung.

I've never made a full-length movie myself, but that would be a full story that would be as revolutionary as the middle of Kung Fu Panda without wasting too much time going through the motions on tired tropes.

[Xondoure]

You're film loses the... playfulness of the movie though. Sure it has its serious points, but it is in the end a comedy and I love it for that. What you describe would be a good more serious kung fu movie though.

[Dvandemon]

Kung Fu Panda was three movies. The twenty-minute movie in the middle was surprisingly deep and beautiful, but you had to sit through the vapid "lol, fat guys are pathetically funny" movie at the beginning and the traditional "zomg, underdog triumphs against impossible odds" movies at the end. If they had had the courage to stick with the story that they obviously wanted to tell, it would have been one of the greatest family movies ever made, but they didn't have the courage.

IMO you are erroneously dividing the storyline to make a cynical criticism.
Without De-riding the thread, why does everyone like HTTYD.

*twitch* uh*...why do you keep using that words?

*nervous hehe

[super dark33]

While Lord Shen may not have been a kung fu master, he was a powerful and scary villain in his own right (and gorgeous to look at!). I loved Gary Oldman's acting; he made me believe he was always juuust on the edge of losing it.


I second this,
though he did beat _the crocodile and bull kung fo masters without the cannon, and managed to imprison them_
one of my favorite villians.

[Sunken Valley]

Tirian, your film sounds cool, I would go and see it. Although it probably would not be called Kung fu Panda as Po only has a minor part. It sounds a lot like HTTYD though, which I disliked.

[Dvandemon]

I don't really know. The really nice thing about those twenty minutes is that they showed me something I had never seen before. Adding around it to make 80 minutes of something that I'd never seen before is a hard thing for me to envision, even if I were a filmmaker (which I mostly am not).

Here's my pitch. The story centers around the dojo with the Furious Five heavily involved in training and performing to the delight and adoration of the village. It is clear that they are at the pinnacle of their respective forms, but the dojo is a coldly formal place with tension between the members and between the members and Shifu and Oogway. Oogway makes a prophecy that Tai Lung will be released and only a great champion will overcome him that needs to be chosen, and then you go into flashbacks and see that Tai Lung is the source of all the tension and that everyone needs to have this obstacle overcome.

Then you've got the selection scene of the Furious Five exceeding their own excellence and Oogway choosing a neophyte from the village anyways and then dies after reinforcing that he made the correct choice. This causes more resentment and friction both within team and towards Po, who isn't prepared for the discipline of training himself. This is the twenty minutes of the film that already exist, where Shifu realizes that he can motivate and train Po, but we'll add in a bit making it clear that the FF also aids in the training as their own catharsis. After a brief while, Po has developed the Panda Style which is informed by everyone else's techniques but is also highly experimental and feeds off of Po's wonder and delight of learning kung fu.

Finally, in the last third of the movie you have Po unsealing the Dragon Scroll and finding it blank and reflective and being confused while the FF go out to fight Tai Lung. They lose. Then Po comes out and gives the FF the wisdom of the Dragon Scroll which is that after you have learned everything the world knows on a subject the next stage has to come from within. Then Po fights Tai Lung, and while the new Panda Style is briefly confusing and frustrating, Tai Lung wins again. Come on, Po only started training a week ago, life isn't a Hollywood movie. But then you get the FF coming back having learned from Po's teaching and combining their own lifetime of training with what they picked up from Panda Style. And using their teamwork freely and joyfully, and THAT is enough to defeat Tai Lung.

I've never made a full-length movie myself, but that would be a full story that would be as revolutionary as the middle of Kung Fu Panda without wasting too much time going through the motions on tired tropes.

Maybe the next time they're writing up a movie you can make your suggestions? :smalltongue: Seriously, that's the only argument you're going with? That's basically, "It's not the movie I expected/wanted". Kung-Fu Panda, for what it is, is a good movie, arguing what should haves is not only a terrible argument but rather close-minded.