monk/psywar focusing on WIS

[riddles]

A decent fix for the monk is to go for tashalatora and get into psywar to give you the "ki" feel. i kinda want to expand on this.

probably the best way of getting decent monk damage is to mess about with size categories, so you're not so much reliant on strength for damage. You are, however, still reliant on strength for your hit rolls.

My question is: Can I use intuitive attack (as the monk's unarmed strike can be considered a natural weapon), to get my hit rolls based on wisdom, therefore dumping strength (to an extent), and use size category shenanigans to get decent damge (and using vampiric claws/strength of my enemy to heal myself a decent amount and up damage)?

If so, what does the build look like? is it too feat intensive?

[DoctorGlock]

Intuitive attack does work for monks.
Take one level in shiba protector with that to gain 2*wis to attacks and str+wis to damage. Combined with psionic lion's charge and you have a reliable damage source and a fair hit chance. Also might want to consider ardent for tashalatora, they get more interesting powers in my opinion.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

another thread about fixing monks, it always the same fix tashalatora and psy warrior.

[riddles]

it's not about fixing the monk. It's about a character I want to play. I know the fix, i know it well and have implemented it for one of my players (with Ardent).

I like the psywarrior powers more and i probably won't get away with a customised mantle, but if i can, ardent for sure. Unless I can find a decent use for lots of bonus feats....

where is shiba protector from?

[DoctorGlock]

oriental adventures, in the regional section.
they require a few bad feats to get into, and it's not good for more than one level, but it certainly gives you a good wisdom synergy. If you are human and have flaws, along with the bonus feats from your two monk levels, you should not lose too much getting in.

Edit: Custom mantles are legal, has your DM heard of the Substitute Power ACF from mind's eye 4? Add powers to a mantle until it includes 10 so long as the match thematically. Dominant ideal means no expending focus for metapsi. Unless your group is fairly optimized I would not recommend linked power synchronicity though. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a here's the article.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

the builds alright, 2 feats not a lot there, what lvl is it?

[prufock]

Yes. Intuitive Attack has only +1 BAB as it's prereq, so it isn't feat-intensive at all. Expansion + Monk's Belt + Improved Natural Attack + various powers should get you decent size/damage bonus. Claws of the Vampire and Strength of My Enemy are perfect fits, too - get your flurry on.

[riddles]

Starting at 2, progressing to 10, maybe all the way up to epic. I'm finding that its very feat intensive so get the damage die schtick rolling

1. Monk - imp. Grapple, FREE FEAT
2. Monk - monastic training, evasion
3. Psywar - tashalatora, intuitive attack
4. Psywar - practised manifester
5. Psywar
6. Psywar - INA
7. Psywar - superior unarmed strike
8. Psywar
9. Psywar - link power
10. Psywar - FREE FEAT

From there, I'm thinking just psioonic body and psionic talent ad finitum, but I'm open to options. I could use one of the monk variants for combat expertise, so I can use one of my free feats on imp. Trip.

After level 11, I could go into slayer for the bab, but would lose out on the feats (which would be 27 pp and around 16 hp)

Almost all books are allowed but dm is getting ban happy (tob is gone, for example)

[DoctorGlock]

If the DM allows complete scoundrel, you can grab iron will from the otyugh pit for free and then the two free feats left will get you into shiba protector. Monk BAB is painful so the 2*wis is sorta necessary.

If you can get into slayer, the metric ton of immunities are good.
forgive me if i am stupid, but does the psiwar benefit from linked power so much as other classes? If you will be expending your focus often enough that it does, psionic meditation will help. Psiwars get hustle...

[riddles]

Yeah they do. Its for buffing mainly - 1st round expansion linked to either strength of my enemy or vampiric claws. Or hustle linked to a buff so I can get stuck in without 3 or 4 buffing rounds.

Meditation for the bonus feat at level 10 probably. Track at 12 to qualify for slayer.

Still don't know what to do with that first level feat. I will have a decent stunning fist dc, so could take that, but can't take any of the psionic feats at level 1. There's a variant in UA that gives combat expertise, so I could take improved trip. Sad that I can't think of many feats to take at level 1 that would really benefit the build.

I may also ask him to change tashalatora: instead of the monk's ac bonus, I get the speed bonus. That'll be much more valuable than a couple of points of ac

[DoctorGlock]

Battle jump perhaps?

[riddles]

Interesting...nice feat. I'm sure there's a psywar power that gives a massive boost to jump checks. Might get heavy on the pp with lion's charge though

[DoctorGlock]

Might not even need a power since it's primarily a charging feat. Monk gets fast movement and every 10' you move above 30' gets you +4 on jumps. Max out jump, have a moderately good str, get the synergy from tumble and charge for double move rate. Profit as everything dies. Do not overuse it or expect banhammer to be incurred.

[riddles]

Very nice. Shiba protector is off the table according to the dm “for fluff reasons”, which is a shame because I could get it without using a flaw. And no, I can't refluff it.

I'm going to go lesser aasimar for the wis bonus and go with stunning fist and ability focus (
Level 1 dc of 16. Level 10 dc of 22 so it doesn't scale too badly).

Still, another psywarrior level at 11. Take track and slayer at 12. Slayer through to epic. Should end up with a bab of 16.

I need another size increase from somewhere. Atm I will have 4d8 at base, 6d8 when expanded, 8d8 when expanded huge. 1 more size increase gets me a juicy 12d8 without relying on a friendly wizard for greater mighty wallop.

[Keld Denar]

Superior Unarmed Strike is not a Fighter Bonus feat, nor is it Psionic. You'll have to do a bit of juggling there.

I like Link Power tied to Grip of Iron. Round 1 of combat, you Expand as your standard action, then Link Grip of Iron together with Claws of the Vamp as your swift action (since Immediate actions on your turn count as this turns Swift action). At the start of your next round, Claws kicks in leaving you ready to pop off a Hustle or Psionic Lion's Charge to get your full attack.

You won't be focused for pretty much the rest of the combat unless you take Psionic Meditation (at which point you can recover your focus in the first round after you spend your swift action), but do you REALLY need to be focused?

EDIT: I'd stick with straight PsyWar. If you go into PsyWar, you'll stunt you Tash progression either on the upstream side (Tashing PsyWar), or the downstream side (Tashing Slayer). Tashing Slayer isn't a BAD choice, but you'll be stuck with rather pitifully low UAS damage for the first 8 or so levels which might suck.

EDIT EDIT: It is rather feat intensive. I see a lot of people expounding on Ardent as the chassis for Tash, but Ardent doesn't get nearly enough bonus feats to work in all of the King of Smack elements you'll want. Sure, you can Feat Leach your pet rock, if your DM allows that kind of chinsy stuff.

[DoctorGlock]

well, instead of size increases, if you cannot, there are always attack increases. If battle jump is on the table, it states that you execute a charge whenever you drop. Linked power psi lion charge with hustle, until end of turn you have pounce. Make you standard charge, full attack, then use your second move to jump again. If you hit 5 feet height (DC 20 jump), you trigger a charge and get a second full attack. Each full attack doing double damage.

[Keld Denar]

Link Power doesn't work like that. The 2nd linked power doesn't drop until the start of the turn AFTER you manifest the 1st. Its not like Twin Power where both effects happen at the same time.

Thus, timing is EVERYTHING. You could Manifest some power in round 1, link it to Hustle, and then in the next round, Hustle drops and THEN you manifest Psionic Lion's Charge to do what you want, but you can't do that all in one round.

[DoctorGlock]

Curses. Looks like I got to re-read my books.

[Draz74]

I agree, stick with straight Psychic Warrior.

But you can get some of the Ardent's cool tricks by using the Mantled Warrior ACF from the Mind's Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a). You give up your Psychic Warrior 2 Bonus Feat, but in return, you get one Mantle (I recommend Freedom).

Voila, it's the same as if you spent your PsyWar2 feat on Speed of Thought, except you also now have access to Dimension Hop, Psionic Fly, and Psionic Teleport as Powers Known. (Oh, and you also get a minor bonus to escaping grapples ... woo.)

Dimension Hop is already a great utility power, but there's two reasons it's extra-good on a Tash Monk:

it's another option, like Grip of Iron, for Linking another self-buff using Linked Power
you can take the Sun School tactical feat from Complete Warrior. Now you can make an extra attack on every turn, for the cost of a swift action and 1 PP.


If you're taking Intuitive Attack and dumping Strength, then you're definitely not a Grappler, so Grip of Iron becomes less appealing. And you'll probably take Stunning Fist instead of Improved Grapple (unless you take Monastic Training instead of either of them), and Stunning Fist has some extra synergy with Sun School and with sky-high Wisdom.

I wouldn't bother with Practiced Manifester, and I'd take a close look at Improved Natural Attack to see how much average damage it's actually adding and whether that's worth a feat. If you're just getting +1d6 damage from Improved Natural Attack, or less, I'd skip it.

In return, there are TONS of feats that would be nice for a character like this. Psionic Meditation is obvious, and if you take that, it's also very nice to take Metapower (Linked Hustle).

With the Level 2 version of the Hustle power and this trio of feats (Psionic Meditation, Linked Power, and Metapower) you can manifest any self-buff as a swift action for just 1 extra PP, at the cost of having the buff show up with a one-round delay. (Technically, you're using your swift action to manifest Hustle with the buff Linked to it, then using the move action granted by Hustle to recover your Psionic Focus that you expended to use the Linked Power metapsionic feat.) It's an expensive but awesome combo.

Other feat options that come to mind: Martial Study (there are several Diamond Mind and Setting Sun maneuvers that work quite nicely). Ability Focus (stunning fist). Snap Kick. Hidden Talent. Expanded Knowledge.

[Elric VIII]

Alternatively, you could take a 1-level dip into Swordsage and take Shadow Blade to add Dex to damage. When you increase size, the Dex penalty should be canceled out by the Str bonus.