Optimizing a Homebrew Class

[ScrambledBrains]

So, I'm going to be playing this class, http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Sandbender_(3.5e_Class), in a campaign sometime soon, and I was looking for advice on which feats I should take with it(I already plan on being human and pretty much following this class all the way through.)

P.S.-If anyone has any other advice they feel is pertenent, feel free to share it.

P.P.S.-Incidentally, the creator of the class also made two homebrew feats, both of which I plan on taking at some point(the advanced natural one at first level. :smallbiggrin:)

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Improved_Technique_Forming_(3.5e_Feat)

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Advanced_Natural_Techniques_(3.5e_Feat)

Edit: Assume all books allowed.

[ScrambledBrains]

..Did I offend somebody with this post or did I just post it in the wrong area? (Either way, my bad.):smallsigh:

[Lord Bingo]

For one thing your links does not work, which makes commenting a little difficult...

[ScrambledBrains]

:smalleek: oops. I'll...work on that.:smallsigh:

[ScrambledBrains]

Fixed. :smallbiggrin:

[erikun]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Sandbender_(3.5e_Class)
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Improved_Technique_Forming_(3.5e_Feat)
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Advanced_Natural_Techniques_(3.5e_Feat)

There you go.

The first thing I notice is that it has a nonstandard Will save progression. You end up with weak saves across the board with that, along with low HP and the lowest BAB.

Neither the class nor the Technique rules (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Technique_Powers_(3.5e_Variant_Rule)) tell how many technique points are used for techniques of each level. That makes it hard to tell how much "technique power" the class has. However, the Sandbender gets a maximum of 233 TP at 20th level. The Psion and Wilder have 343 PP at the same level. Considering that the Sandbender doesn't have other ways to attack - poor weapon proficiencies, poor weapon selection, poor HP, poor armor - they'll likely be reduced to crossbow detail quickly unless their powers are massively versatile.

They learn 25 techniques by 20th level. The class only has 30 techniques total. It looks like they will have access to nearly their entire technique list.


Other than that, you can get a standard attack that deals 2d6 + Wisdom damage, can attack with it through your attuned sand (which doesn't seem to have a range), and doesn't work inside anti-magic fields. Pyrokineticist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) seems like it would be a good fit, at least for 4th level (Weapon Afire) or 8th level (Greater Weapon Afire). Seeing as you could hide and attack with just the sand, apparently, you might do well looking for a Ring of Invisibility.

I haven't leafed through the various techniques to see what they might be especially good for. Anything that is instanteous for damage, or that requires a standard attack roll, will be pretty bad for you though. (low TP plus low BAB)

[ScrambledBrains]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Sandbender_(3.5e_Class)
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Improved_Technique_Forming_(3.5e_Feat)
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Advanced_Natural_Techniques_(3.5e_Feat)

There you go.

The first thing I notice is that it has a nonstandard Will save progression. You end up with weak saves across the board with that, along with low HP and the lowest BAB.

Neither the class nor the Technique rules (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Technique_Powers_(3.5e_Variant_Rule)) tell how many technique points are used for techniques of each level. That makes it hard to tell how much "technique power" the class has. However, the Sandbender gets a maximum of 233 TP at 20th level. The Psion and Wilder have 343 PP at the same level. Considering that the Sandbender doesn't have other ways to attack - poor weapon proficiencies, poor weapon selection, poor HP, poor armor - they'll likely be reduced to crossbow detail quickly unless their powers are massively versatile.

They learn 25 techniques by 20th level. The class only has 30 techniques total. It looks like they will have access to nearly their entire technique list.


Other than that, you can get a standard attack that deals 2d6 + Wisdom damage, can attack with it through your attuned sand (which doesn't seem to have a range), and doesn't work inside anti-magic fields. Pyrokineticist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) seems like it would be a good fit, at least for 4th level (Weapon Afire) or 8th level (Greater Weapon Afire). Seeing as you could hide and attack with just the sand, apparently, you might do well looking for a Ring of Invisibility.

I haven't leafed through the various techniques to see what they might be especially good for. Anything that is instanteous for damage, or that requires a standard attack roll, will be pretty bad for you though. (low TP plus low BAB)

Hmm, good points all(though the sand has a range based on your level, and I'm not sure of it's status in anti-magic fields.) As for the technique points costs, they're listed individually on all the technique's pages. I may have to either play very carefully or just play another class instead. Either way, thanks for your advice!! :smallsmile:

[erikun]

The actual attack (Dry Hands) is a Supernatural ability, so even if you can manipulate sand inside an AMF, you can't use it to attack. Unless you can use your sand to grapple, there isn't much you could do at that point.

Yeah, I see it now. You'll be short on TP at higher levels, at least compared to most "full-casters". The fact that there isn't any TP-progression prestige classes means you'll likely be even further behind the curve.

Shadowdancer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/shadowdancer.htm) might be worth taking a look at for Hide in Plain Sight at 1st level. As I said, you'll likely be hiding and just attacking from a distance, so being able to hide successfully is a good idea. Sandbender 11/Pyrokinetist 8/Shadowdancer 1 is probably what I'd look at making, dealing 2d8 + 4d6 + Wisdom each round as an attack and being able to hide anywhere just by granting yourself concealment with your own sand. You might be a bit too feat-dependant for that, though.

[ScrambledBrains]

The actual attack (Dry Hands) is a Supernatural ability, so even if you can manipulate sand inside an AMF, you can't use it to attack. Unless you can use your sand to grapple, there isn't much you could do at that point.

Yeah, I see it now. You'll be short on TP at higher levels, at least compared to most "full-casters". The fact that there isn't any TP-progression prestige classes means you'll likely be even further behind the curve.

Shadowdancer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/shadowdancer.htm) might be worth taking a look at for Hide in Plain Sight at 1st level. As I said, you'll likely be hiding and just attacking from a distance, so being able to hide successfully is a good idea. Sandbender 11/Pyrokinetist 8/Shadowdancer 1 is probably what I'd look at making, dealing 2d8 + 4d6 + Wisdom each round as an attack and being able to hide anywhere just by granting yourself concealment with your own sand. You might be a bit too feat-dependant for that, though.

Damn. Well, that's one weakness to look out for. :smallsigh:

True, though they get bonus TP based on their Wisdom modifier, which also controls all their abilities DC's and such.

Are those classes Wisdom based?

[erikun]

All psionic classes get bonus PP for high ability scores, and use the same table. You'll still end up with less - you just have an inate attack that deals damage with your ability modifier.

The prestige classes aren't based on any particular stat. Shadowdancer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/shadowdancer.htm) is just for the Hide in plain sight ability, so that you can hide in the open without worrying about cover. Pyrokinesticist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) is mainly for Weapon Afire and gets some other fire-based attacks, so it depends on whatever you use to make attacks.

Note that neither prestige class gives Technique progression, though. Nothing official will give Technique progression, given that it isn't official, although the two classes I mentioned don't progress spellcasting or psionics either. I was mostly optimizing your damaging attack and hiding ability. If you want to focus on the Sandbender techniques, you're better off going full Sandbender (or prehaps Sandbender 19/Shadowdancer 1, for that Hide in plain sight).

[ScrambledBrains]

All psionic classes get bonus PP for high ability scores, and use the same table. You'll still end up with less - you just have an inate attack that deals damage with your ability modifier.

The prestige classes aren't based on any particular stat. Shadowdancer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/shadowdancer.htm) is just for the Hide in plain sight ability, so that you can hide in the open without worrying about cover. Pyrokinesticist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) is mainly for Weapon Afire and gets some other fire-based attacks, so it depends on whatever you use to make attacks.

Note that neither prestige class gives Technique progression, though. Nothing official will give Technique progression, given that it isn't official, although the two classes I mentioned don't progress spellcasting or psionics either. I was mostly optimizing your damaging attack and hiding ability. If you want to focus on the Sandbender techniques, you're better off going full Sandbender (or prehaps Sandbender 19/Shadowdancer 1, for that Hide in plain sight).

True. :smallsigh:

I know, and I thank you for the good ideas. :smallsmile: I was just trying to avoid MAD as much as possible. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, that's true. Maybe I should consider another class(Homebrew or not) that's not so tricky to make good. :biggrin: