Soul Eater question

[Major]

Really quick question on the Soul Eater from Book of Vile Darkness.

It's ability Energy Drain says...

Energy Drain (Su): A soul eater gains the ability to drain energy, bestowing negative levels upon its victims. Beginning at 1st level, the touch of a soul eater bestows one negative level on its target. At 7th level, the soul eater bestows two negative levels with a touch.

Now then, I assume that it makes a melee touch attack to do that? An unarmed strike or a claw attack, etc wouldn't work would it?

[ClothedInVelvet]

I believe natural weapons work for touching. Vampires drain on slams, if I recall correctly. So yes, claws and unarmed attacks would work.

[Major]

Thanks, I wasn't positive due to the vague wording.

[sonofzeal]

The Vampire analogy is flawed. The Vampire's Energy drain specifically works on a Slam.

"Living creatures hit by a vampire’s slam attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess) gain two negative levels. For each negative level bestowed, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points. A vampire can use its energy drain ability once per round."

The Soul Eater ability makes no such statements. As such, I would consider the ruling highly dubious. I personally would not allow a Souleater to Energy Drain for every hit, that seems abusive to me. Instead, I would usually treat it as its own ability - as a standard action, make a melee touch attack to Energy Drain.

But really, the class was fairly obviously never meant for PCs in the first place.

[ClothedInVelvet]

Soul eaters don't have proficiencies with weapons or armor, I think their only real melee attack is their energy drain. But it is a PC.

I might go so far as to say that they can't take improved unarmed strike, but I would let them use a successful unarmed strike to make the energy drain. Depends on how you understand them draining (through an open palm) and how the attack works out (an open palm to the chest?)

[Major]

The Vampire analogy is flawed. The Vampire's Energy drain specifically works on a Slam.

"Living creatures hit by a vampire’s slam attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess) gain two negative levels. For each negative level bestowed, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points. A vampire can use its energy drain ability once per round."

The Soul Eater ability makes no such statements. As such, I would consider the ruling highly dubious. I personally would not allow a Souleater to Energy Drain for every hit, that seems abusive to me. Instead, I would usually treat it as its own ability - as a standard action, make a melee touch attack to Energy Drain.

But really, the class was fairly obviously never meant for PCs in the first place.

Well, I'm a DM making a villain, so it works for intents, but even still. I figure even if they are forced to make a melee touch attack, at a high enough level they could make quite a few couldn't they? full base attack...

Right now with a level 6 version (bare minimum), I've got a villain that can touch twice in one turn and deal negative levels. If they do unarmed strike damage in addition to it, it's even worse. But at the very least with it just being a touch attack you got some crazy damage, especially if you toss on life drain as the 6th level feat.

[Thurbane]

I had a villain in my campaign that was an Advanced Worg Soul Eater - he energy drained on his bite. Since he only had one attack (bite) it was a non-issue, but the standard clause for Su abilities is that they can only be used once/round, unless otherwise noted.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8525164&postcount=19

[Flickerdart]

Think about this: if you let the ability apply to melee attacks, it would be trivial to make a character that drains as many levels as he has hit dice. Every turn, no save, something dies, and at the levels this is happening, Death Ward is a rare luxury. It wouldn't just be a TPK - your entire party with all their amazing PC gear are now wights that terrorize the countryside.

[sonofzeal]

Well, I'm a DM making a villain, so it works for intents, but even still. I figure even if they are forced to make a melee touch attack, at a high enough level they could make quite a few couldn't they? full base attack...

Right now with a level 6 version (bare minimum), I've got a villain that can touch twice in one turn and deal negative levels. If they do unarmed strike damage in addition to it, it's even worse. But at the very least with it just being a touch attack you got some crazy damage, especially if you toss on life drain as the 6th level feat.
Ah, if you're the DM, do whatever the hell you want. "Yeah, er, this isn't just a Soul Eater, this is a Soul Devourer! Yeah... *shifty eyes*"

But for PCs, I'd make the Energy Drain a distinct attack, and not comboable with natural weapons or Flurry or whatnot. The class is pretty badass already without that.

[Major]

I had a villain in my campaign that was an Advanced Worg Soul Eater - he energy drained on his bite. Since he only had one attack (bite) it was a non-issue, but the standard clause for Su abilities is that they can only be used once/round, unless otherwise noted.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8525164&postcount=19


Ahhhhh I missed that. Alright, that makes it a bit more balanced. Once per round. Thanks. I don't feel super bad now.

Now then, could one drain with one attack and attack with the other on a full round?

[Divide by Zero]

Now then, could one drain with one attack and attack with the other on a full round?

No, using a supernatural ability is a standard action (unless otherwise noted), which is distinct from an attack action. Unless you have an extra source of actions, you can only drain+move+swift.

[Major]

Gotcha, thanks.