Legend: Garamond Nights

[imperialspectre]

Legend has now been typeset. We've also made a number of balance changes, completing the series of balance issues we've been working on for a few weeks, and we've added some new material.

In the next week or so, we'll be rolling out a rewrite of Chapter 3's section on races, providing comprehensive descriptions of how they work and interact in the world. We will also be working to produce new feats and items, as well as a guide to finding the best mechanics to model the character you want to play. In the meantime, please do provide criticism and balance suggestions, especially if you have playtest data. We like data.

To avoid some issues we've had in the past, I want to talk briefly about our major design goals and some assumptions we make when trying to achieve them. These aren't up for debate. If you don't share these design goals, I recommend you play one of the many games that don't share them either. We still value your opinion and feedback on issues other than these major design goals, if you wish to provide it.

Game Balance

We think that level is a measure of a creature's power, and that therefore one creature of level X should be roughly equal in power to another creature of level X, regardless of whether one is a "mighty wizard" and one is a "deadly warrior". If you want to describe a creature of all-surpassing power that dominates the lesser beings around him, then a) that creature shouldn't coexist with said lesser beings in a party of player characters and b) you do that by assigning the creature of all-surpassing power a higher level.

We are working on options for "special" creatures that have unusual capabilities and resilience, specifically the Legendary creature type and special iconic monster feats. However, we do insist that if one player character is Legendary, all of them are.

Level-ups and Power

Since level is a measure of power, gaining levels will increase a character's power. At some point, a high-level character will be able to destroy a lower-level character without any real effort. In Legend, we accept this reasoning, and so we expect the game to change dramatically every five levels or so, as characters change from "fragile mortal hero" to "tough-to-kill badass" to "superhero" to "demigod". If you want a game where the characters stay within the general category they started in, just don't level your players out of it! We actually do have the mechanics for that. :smallsmile:

Happy gaming! We hope you enjoy playing Legend. If you don't, please show us how to make it enjoyable for you.

[potatocubed]

Just a heads up: Mongoose Publishing have decided to call their new game Legend after they discovered the previous name (Wayfarers) was taken.

[Eldan]

Don't like the typeset much. It's too clean, too colourful, too polished. Doesn't invoke a fantasy feeling.

[potatocubed]

I went through and marked up your pdf. You can download my comments here (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B16pc2pV9xvgYWFjYTVkNWQtZWExOC00YmM1LTg4Yjg tMzljNjI3ZjdkZmUx&hl=en_US&authkey=CJfNlp8G).

tl;dr version: Legacy issues. There is a vast amount of content missing from the skills and combat chapters because you're assuming a d20 background. Technically this game is not a beta because it is not stand-alone playable - not without a hefty whack of d20 experience, anyway.

And then a million little nitpicks, at least some of which I have seen other people bring up before. I tried to concentrate on mechanical issues that I found rather than design elements or the writing. (I failed in places.)

Also! Your skill system is borked. I get the impression you were trying to keep DCs low and skill bonuses rare, but you still run into the 'take 20' problem I picked out with the very first playtest adventure:

Take a starting character with an Int of 18. Add an Int-boosting race. (20) Add an Int-boosting lesser item. (22)

By taking 20, a 1st-level character can reliably hit DC 27 every time. If they take Int as their primary boost stat they hit DC 30 at 3rd level and 35 at 7th level. I get most lulz out of Medicine because they can now raise the dead pretty much at will (although it takes a day each time) but you can do some pretty nice stuff with knowledge skills at this level too. If they're trained in History they can hit DC 42 at 13th level - with enough time to take 20 they can know anything about anyone who has ever lived, no matter how obscure. If you produce more skill-bumping feats in the future you can expect those thresholds to drop.

Oh, and you have no XP/levelling system. That I noticed.

And I still see no reason not to go 18/18/14/8/8/8 for stats. You've got the 4e problem of only having one or two stats relevant to a character build. You might end up socially defenceless, I suppose.

[Radar]

1. In Stealth, Larceny and Wisdom description, there is something called Awareness defence - is it a leftover or a real part of the system? How does it relate to Perception skill?
2. What benefits I get if any, if I attack someone, while being successfuly hidden (through Stealth in particular)?
3. Stunned condition description says "loses his Dexterity bonus to AC". Should it now refer to Key Defence Modifier? Same goes for Invisible.
4. How does "loses his Dexterity bonus to AC" relate to flat-footed condition in respect to Ranger's Dead-Eye ability? It's not a listed condition, but is obtained in a similar way: surprising your opponent.

edit: one more thing I noticed: "Remove harmful condition" use of Medicine uses time measured in rounds, minutes and hours. Right now, a lot of abilities use time measured in Encounters and Scenes. This is somewhat incompatibile.

[Master_Rahl22]

Through the Clouds still references Between the Raindrops and it still doesn't make sense for it to do so.

The portions of the grid that are missing in the Shaman and Tactician spells per day graphic make it look very odd to me. I'd prefer for the lines to be drawn and the boxes left blank, mostly just an aesthetic issue for me though.

In the Tactician quick reference section the second ability in the Bag of Tricks track is called Nerveskitter, but in the text it's called Early Warning.

Big Damn Hero still references [Entangle], [Lock Offense], [Lock All], and [Concentration] which do not occur anywhere else in the entire document.

One of the Sentient Construct bonus feats listed is "[something]".


Light armor provides a +1 bpnus to Armor Class.
Heavy armor provides a +2 bonus to Armor Class, but inflicts a -1 penalty on Reflex saves becaue it tends to limit the wearer’s flexibility an mobility.

Hooray for +2 Dex, Wis, and Int items. I see that the bonuses for magic armor have changed again. I'll need to look things over in more depth to see what kind of overall effects this has on AC.

[Doc Roc]

Potato: taking 20 was supposed to be removed in this version. The other problems....... Oh god.

Also, I guess I have to go talk to mongoose now, and tell them that we have a priori.

[Flickerdart]

The spellcasting tables are like that due to a peculiar InDesign "feature" that is already on the fix list. Later formatting changes are likely to make the issue moot, though, and I am looking forward to that.

[Radar]

Potato: taking 20 was supposed to be removed in this version. The other problems....... Oh god.

Also, I guess I have to go talk to mongoose now, and tell them that we have a priori.
It's only natural - I spent more time editing and proof-reading my first publication, then I spent on the actual scientific work.

Just found this in "Acquiring Magic" sub-subsection:
"In Legend, the three core spellcasting tracks belong natively to the shaman and tactician classes."
That would be two spellcasting tracks I guess.

[potatocubed]

Potato: taking 20 was supposed to be removed in this version. The other problems....... Oh god.

Well, removing take 20 solves that problem. Just out of interest I crunched some numbers today regarding the whole Medicine raising the dead thing, and you've still got a good chance (75%) of doing it at level 7. (56% chance at level 6)

Working: 18 stat, Int-boosting item, Int-boosting race, trained Medicine, Int as primary boosted stat. At level 7 that's a +13 modifier, or a 17+ on a d20 to hit the DC of 30 to raise the recently dead.

Because trying takes 1 hour, and you can use it on someone who's been dead a number of hours equal to your level, that means you get a number of tries equal to your level.

The probability of failing to raise someone completely is the probability that every time you try, you fail:

p(failure) ^ [your level]

So the probability of success is 1 - that.

Which is 14% at level 3 (the earliest DC 30 can be hit), hits 99% at level 10, and is guaranteed after that.

I suppose you could just say that a character with Medicine can only try to raise a corpse once before giving up, but then you'd just be spoiling my fun. :smalltongue:

(In all seriousness, I don't know how much easy raising of the dead is intentional and how much is accidental - I noticed that raise dead doesn't appear in the spell lists.)

EDIT: Something which just occurred to me based on the numbers I crunched is that after level 13 this character can take 10 and hit DC 30 on any Int-based skill check. (DC 31, in fact.) If he can get +2 from a feat then he can take-10-for-30 at level 11. I don't know quite how you wanted skills calibrated against level so that may be bug or feature, but that's how the numbers currently work out.

[imperialspectre]

Okay, first off, thank you so much for the extensive and detailed feedback. It's all in one place, and a couple of us will be going through it to make the necessary fixes for the next release.

Second, I am going to ruin your fun. We don't like skill retries, and part of our minimalist approach to the number of skill checks one makes to resolve any given situation is that you don't get to make extra checks with the same skill. With that in mind, the probabilities for someone between level 3 and level 10 to pull off a successful resurrection are pretty much where we want them.

Your math for a character with access to take 10 and the build you described is correct and intended.

[DelvinAnaris]

I hope you won't mind another proofreader :smallbiggrin:

First, I want to say that I thoroughly approve of the premise behind Legend. I'd really like to be able to run (or join) some tabletop campaigns around here, but I've had some bad experiences in the past with overly confusing rules making things far less fun than they should have been. I look forward eagerly to Legend being finalized, and attempting to actually use it!

My RPG background is primarily based in 2ed AD&D, though I was trying to learn 3.5ed (as I was told that it ought to be far simpler and easier to follow than 2ed—which, in general, it was; Legend seems to be even moreso, though).

So, on to the nitpicking!

Warning: I have a tendency toward excessive verbosity.

I looked through Potato's notes, and will generally avoid replicating them. However, I will remark that I found the paragraph-separation consistency issues to be greater and more widespread than he noted. I can certainly see using different styles for wall-o-text sections, like the Author's Notes and the intro and first 2 sections of Chapter I, than you do for definitional sections, like the rest of Chapter I; however, it would be best to ensure consistency within each type of section. I'm going to guess that it was not intentional to be inconsistent, and recommend a more thorough review of paragraph separators throughout the document.

Page 10-11: The various types of modifiers are referred to slightly inconsistently, some as "modifiers" and others as "bonuses". If it is ironclad that, for instance, no feat can ever provide a penalty to a check or roll, then it may be appropriate to refer only to a "feat bonus"; however, if there may be situations in which feats provide penalties (or if you want to maintain a greater consistency for aesthetic reasons), it might be better to call them all "modifiers".

Page 11: next to the ability modifier formula, it looks like the "rounded down" part ought to be able to fit on the line with "modifier is"

Page 11: Under "Key Ability Modifiers," I had to read through it a couple of times to realize that you really mean that each Key Ability Modifier is one of the character's Ability Modifiers, and it's not meant to be a separate number. Not sure exactly how to reword the text to make it more clear, but I think it ought to be done. Maybe something like "Each character class has two such Ability Modifiers called Key Ability Modifiers"—the "such" calling back to the previous subsection and making quite clear that they're linked, and not meant to be entirely separate concepts.

Page 11: The wording under "Abilities and Spellcasters" is a bit clunky; I would say something like "Intelligence is used for tacticians, and Wisdom for shamans".

Page 12: It confused me a little here to see the KOM and KDMs not specified cleanly under each ability. I understood when I got to the later full descriptions of classes and saw that which track you selected sometimes affected it, but the text on page 11 had led me to expect that each class had just 1 of each.

Page 13: Under Armor Class, you say "You calculate AC is as follows"; the "is" should be removed.

Page 13: Would it be worthwhile to standardize on a format for displaying formulae? The AC formula here is presented quite differently from the ability modifier formula on page 11; perhaps it would be better if both—and all such formulae—were, at the least, offset vertically from all other text? That would remove the wrapping problem I noted on page 11, as well...

Page 14: I notice that you italicize Legend here, though you did not in the introduction section of Chapter I. Not sure if this was intentional or not. It looks inconsistent.

Page 14: I don't disagree with it, exactly, but I'm curious as to the rationale for pushing people to average away odd-numbered ability scores at character creation.

Page 15: Glancing ahead, and recalling some of the discussion I skimmed on earlier revisions of Legend, I question the wording of the "skill selection" section. Is it really "how many skill points you gain at any given level"?

Page 15: The "At any rate" in §2.1.5 is a little jarring. "Either way" or "In either case" would be less conversational.

Page 15: It looks like there's an extra space between "offers" and "a" in the first line of §2.1.6. I'm not intimately familiar with the spacing style you've used, so I can't be certain, though.

Page 15: When I read the heading and text of §2.2, I was struck by the contrast between the appearance of "1st" in the sans-serif heading and the elegant serif text. Specifically, I remembered how irritating I (personally, just an opinion) have always found fonts that render a "1" as if it were a small-caps Roman numeral. This can be a particular problem when displaying "11", as in the previous subsection; when done on its own, without any other chapters referenced nearby, it can be nearly impossible to tell whether it means "Chapter 11" or "Chapter II". It also makes "1st" look remarkably odd. Again, this is a personal pet peeve, so if you dismiss it I will certainly understand :smallwink:

Page 15: The table on page 17 is referenced here multiple times, and done so in multiple different ways; however you choose to do it, it should be standardized—and accurate. At least once, it is referred to as "Table: Character Advancement", when the actual header of the table is "Character Progression". Personally, I would refer to it as "Table 2-1: Character Progression", and probably add a note that it is in §2.3 the first time I reference it.

Page 16: §2.2.5 refers to "wealth units" in the same table mentioned above; that table does not mention "wealth units" as such, but instead indicates at what levels a character gains "slots" for various types of magical items. If that is what is meant by "wealth units," it should be clarified; if it's an older version of the text, the text should be updated.

Page 16: Ah, are max HP really increased by a fixed amount each level? That simplifies some things tremendously :smallcool: I like it!

Page 16: Is it necessary to say "Class/Track Feature" when (as far as I can tell) all such features belong to tracks?

Page 18: There appears to be an extraneous space before "Some" in the second-to-last line of the first column.

Page 18: Is it intentional for the top of the second column to align with the top of the text of the first, rather than the top of the heading? Previously, section headings have flowed within the text, regardless of the level of section (X.X or X.X.X).

Page 18: You are inconsistent in your pluralization of "dwarf". "Dwarves" is, I think, the more common nowadays (and for discussions on them see Tolkien), but either will work as long as you stick with it.

Page 18: At first, looking at the Race infobox, I thought it said that dwarves have "medium darkvision". Not sure what the best way would be, but I think it would be good to have some clearer indicator that one is meant to be the size, and the other a racial ability.

Page 18: I think I recall that the flavour text for the races (along with much of the other flavour text) has a rewrite planned for it? I think that is a good thing.

Page 20: "Each class progresses 3 tracks"—this sentence is poorly formed and should probably be rewritten, possibly as 2 completely separate sentences.

Page 20: You mention the "Paladin's Strand of Judgement", when that no longer seems to be the name of the track; you also say that it does not have 7 abilities, when this is not true. Indeed, its new name even says that it has 7 circles.

Page 20: "There are several classes in this document, Paladin and Rogue, that have..."—I haven't yet gone through all the classes to verify that these are the only 2 with this feature, but one way or another, this should be adjusted.

Page 20: I like that Paladins and Rogues have that increased variety; however, the first thing that pops into my mind reading that is, "Well, why just them? Why don't all the classes have extra tracks to pick from?"

Page 20: Again, here you do not italicize the titles of (here, forthcoming) books, while an earlier mention of one of them had it italicized.

Page 20: You say that Judgment cannot be accessed by multiclassing, and that this is stated in the text of the track. This does not appear to be the case.

Page 20: You say that these 2 tracks cannot be accessed by multiclassing, and they are standard to their respective classes: can they be given up by multiclassing?

Page 20: The wording of the paragraph on Guild Initiation isn't as smooth and clear as it could be; I would start it off by saying something like, "For characters who wish to multiclass later in their careers, there is an option, however. The Guild Initiation feat represents..." etc.

Page 20: "Some tracks are part of the same overall track"—this is slightly confusing. It is clarified in the rest of the paragraph, but perhaps some slightly different terminology could be used?

Page 21: Under "Spells", you say: "Casting a spell generally provokes an attack of opportunity (however, casting a spell as a swift or immediate action does not)." As it is not yet explained how to cast a spell as a swift or immediate option (not to mention the fact that different types of action haven't even been defined yet :smallwink: ), might it not be better just to leave it at the "generally" part, and get into the rest when the rules for casting spells as different types of action are defined?

Page 21: In the discussion on one of the previous editions of the Legend beta, I recall a discussion on the necessity of the dichotomy between spells and spell-like abilities. I share the view that just because such a dichotomy exists in D&D doesn't mean it's necessary here; was the earlier discussion resolved, or did it just sort of peter out?

Aie. This took longer than I thought!

I will tackle more of the proofreading later; just before the full description of classes seems like a good place to stop.

[Amphetryon]

Page 53: "Stolem Moments"

[DelvinAnaris]

I'm back! Let's take a look at the next few pages...

Page 22: You mention "fatigued" here, and it sounds like a specific status; should it be in square brackets? Potato may have mentioned this, but I think this is another thing that needs a very broad review—you need to decide exactly what the square brackets mean, and then use them consistently, because at least to me, they seem not to be entirely so.

Page 22: I note that, in this table and the other class tables, there is no mention of experience—nor, thinking back to my previous skims of the material, do I recall any mention of experience or how to gain levels. Is this another of those things that will be tackled later? Possibly when the monster book is fleshed out (thus linking experience needed and experience provided)? (EDIT: just saw the earlier comment on this in this very thread. Sorry for duplicate complaints!)

Page 22: Under Intimidating Rage, 4th line, "siccessfully". And on the next line, another condition—shaken—without square brackets.

Page 23: Heart of Fury indicates that you gain temporary HP "as Greater Rage" at the start of each encounter; is this meant to be "as Mighty Rage"? Or do you really intend to make the raging permanent, but weaker?

Page 23: You use "ex." to mean "for example"; I am aware that this is an accepted abbreviation, but I would think "e.g." is more common and well-understood. (This is, obviously, not just for this page, but wherever it's used in the document :smallwink: )

Page 23: I note that you mention "character level" in the Disrupting Presence descriptor; earlier, in the Rage descriptor, you simply referred to "level." I can understand it just fine (and I don't know if a character can have anything else one could call a level in Legend—which, by the way, I really like!), but it might be worthwhile to consider standardizing this terminology.

Page 23: Absurd grammar nitpick: in the same descriptor, you say "spell, spell-like, or supernatural ability"; it seems more correct to me to say "spell or spell-like or supernatural ability," as the "ability" modifies "spell-like" and "supernatural," but not "spell". Or does it? Would one refer to a "spell ability" in Legend?

Page 23: The descriptor for Greater Cleave is slightly confusing to me. Is the only change from Cleave the removal of the swift action requirement? If so, perhaps it would be better worded as simply, "Starting at 17th level, you no longer need to spend any action to make a cleave attack when you are normally able to do so." Or something like that.

Page 23: Wow, "Hard to Break" seems very powerful, especially coming at 3rd level. Given some of the other work you guys have done in this direction, though, I'm going to presume you've been careful to ensure it's balanced :smallbiggrin:

Page 23: You refer to Fast Healing; it might be good to indicate where that is defined—if not by page, then at least by chapter/section.

Page 24: Again, you refer to Flurry; it would be helpful to indicate where that is defined. Here, it's particularly confusing, since the track ability is named the same thing as the combat maneuver; at first I thought that it was just not being properly defined.

Page 24: You mention "monk levels" in the descriptor for Stunning Fist, and again in Five Deadly Venoms.

Page 24: In the After-image descriptor, you refer to "mirror image," again without a reference, but this time it is italicized. Is this because it is a different kind of effect? If so, there should probably be some kind of key at the beginning of the document; if not, it should be standardized.

Page 25: The last sentence under Touch of Death seems clumsy; perhaps there's a better way to indicate the [Death] nature of the attack?

Page 25: You refer to an "attack routine"; is this terminology used elsewhere as well? It seems not to flow well; if it's not used elsewhere, perhaps it could be replaced by something a little cleaner?

Page 25: There is a space missing after the colon of Fast Movement.

Page 25: The way Fast Movement is described and the way Unarmed Strike are described (edit: and, indeed, the way Between the Raindrops is described) seem to refer to the same concept (number of circles in the track) in very different ways. Again, it would probably be best to standardize.

Page 25: Again, you mention "monk level" in Empty Body.

Page 26: Empty Body seems exploitable. Should there be a cooldown on it?

Page 26: Planeshift is referred to here, but never actually defined. (I checked.)

Page 26: Wow, so once a Monk with the Crane track reaches 20th level, you have to kill him twice in one day before he'll stay dead, even without anyone else to help him? That's pretty powerful.

Page 26: Stance of the Falling Star mentions "knocked down," which I seem to recall is an actual condition, but it's not clear whether this is just supposed to be part of the flavour text.

Page 26: It might be worthwhile to emphasize, under Cloak of the Sun and Moon, that the decision made for the Dance must be maintained here.

Page 26: There is another missing space after the colon of Scales of Gems.

Page 27: The description of Hunted should not be a second sentence; it should be put after a colon or in parentheses. As it is, it sounds very much like all paladins want to bring each other down...

Page 27: The way a paladin becomes Hunted seems unclear here. What, exactly, is the "code"? It appears not to be the creed, as it is explicitly stated that repeated violations of that do not cause the paladin to become Hunted.

Page 27: Your capitalization of "paladin" is quite inconsistent. Barbarian and monk do not seem to be capitalized; paladin probably shouldn't be either.

Page 27: The second paragraph in the second column mentions Three Strictures, rather than the Twin Strictures defined earlier.

Page 28: There is an extraneous space above the first line of the first column.

Page 28: So, does the Knowing only give you the awareness of creatures you already know are there? Or would it warn you of one who wasn't , [concealed], or [stealthy], but whom you hadn't yet seen or heard?

Page 28: Does the Knowing always grant the bonus to Awareness and Perception? Or does it not function "in cases where the creed's meaning is unclear"?

Page 28: I'm a little unclear on the interaction of Knowing and Bastion where it comes to the other abilities that can be broadcast. I think it means that, for instance, Paladin A can prevent up to 3x his level in damage to Ranger B, 20 ft away, and Ranger B, in turn, can prevent up to 3x [i]her level in damage to Rogue C, 20 ft away from her in a straight line (and thus outside Paladin A's Knowing). Is this correct? And could it be clarified somewhat?

Page 28: Under Requital, "knowing" is uncapitalized.

Page 28: Under Light, the "The" before Knowing is capitalized.

Page 28: The description of the Protection track refers to it as a Strand.

Page 29: The description for the Bastion Aura spells out "feet", while the description for the Knowing's radius abbreviated it. This should be standardized.

Page 29: The description for The Shield redundantly states, "This is a supernatural ability."

Page 29: In the Mantle description, "Bastion" is referred to without an article.

Page 29: The Quick and the Dead is the first reference to LoE, and probably to LoS. At least LoE is not defined anywhere. (This may be part of the broader critique others have made that 3.5ed stuff is used but not defined). Regardless, it should at least be referenced as "line of effect" here as it is below.

Page 29: Is it intentional that 2 paladins, both with The Quick and the Dead, and with each other selected as partners, can be utterly protected from any LoS/LoE effects from beyond 10 ft away?

Page 29: You should probably add "all that was" before "currently sustaining you" in With Your Shield or On It.

Page 30: Under War Engine, appears capitalized, where elsewhere on the page it is lowercase. This (square-bracket condition capitalization) is another persistent inconsistency that should be thoroughly reviewed.

Page 30: Does the War Engine AC penalty really not stack with [b]anything? I would presume that, at the least, it must "stack" with AC bonuses...just saying it "does not stack" seems a little confusing.

Page 30: The description of Font also uses "feet" spelled out.

Page 30: The description of who the energy from the Font can strike is quite clumsy; it might be better as something like: "...an arc of energy strikes one ally of your choice within a 20 ft + 5 ft for each two of your character levels radius", or even "...+ 2.5 ft for each of your character levels".

Page 30: In Dawnsign, you refer to "your Cha modifier", whereas in the various Smiting abilities, you refer mostly to "your Charisma bonus", and once to "your Charisma modifier". This should be standardized.

Page 30: Font is listed as a SU ability, but Icon and Dawnsign as EX abilities. As Icon and Dawnsign simply modify Font, shouldn't they also be SU abilities?

Page 31: Rebirth indicates that an ally revived using it is healed to 50 hit points; what happens if this is more than their maximum hit points?

Page 32: It's not clear how Razorpods move. Is it directed at will by the ranger? In a straight line from their deployment, and set only then?

Page 32: The Remote Mine says it detonates in a 30-ft cube of flame. Presumably this is 15 ft out in all 4 directions on the ground, and 30 ft up. What happens if the remote mine is placed on a ledge, or otherwise near an open vertical space below?

Page 33: The wording of the bonuses in The Sound of Cannon is clumsy. Perhaps it could be better worded, "All allies, including you, gain a +4 bonus to your initiative, and you gain an additional +6, for a total of +10."

Page 33: Why are A Reign of Arrows and Iron Magi sub-tracks, rather than separate tracks?

Page 33: Does your attack roll in Ricochet replace the target's AC or save even if it's worse?

Page 34: In the second-to-last line of Beloved of the Dirae, "Ranger" is erroneously capitalized.

Page 34: There is a missing paragraph separator between Scream of the Black Sky and Staccato Blastwave.

Page 34: The "Special" after Staccato Blastwave is not indented, but there appears to be an extra space between the "Special:" and its descriptor.

Page 35: Again, "fast healing" is referenced in the descriptor of For Ire. This time, it is also uncapitalized.

Page 35: There is an extraneous space before the last line of A Masterpiece in Violence.

Man, this is taking a long time :smalltongue: Gonna take a break and do some more later. Maybe today, maybe later.

[Radar]

Necromancer's ability 3a seems to be way overpowered as is. No attack roll, no save and being permanently Blinded is severly crippling. If it is the way it should be, then I'll roll up a Necromancer for Test of Spite. :smalltongue:

Also: Ranger's Return Fire ability doesn't specify, how long does the flat-footed condition last.

[DelvinAnaris]

Me again!

Hoping to hear back from one or more of the official Legend creators on whether I'm just posting waaaay too much soon, so I can know whether the time investment is worth it :smallredface:

So, back to where I left off, with the beginning of the Rogue description...

(Wow, a whole page with nothing I noticed wrong!)

Page 37: There is an extraneous space before the last line of When to Run.

Page 37: Sneak Attack is referenced multiple times without capitalization.

Page 37: The "th" on "10th" under Menacing Presence is not superscripted. (I think there may have been a couple of instances of this previously, now that I think of it, but I'm not going back for them just at the second.)

Page 37: Battle Fatigue says it's granted at 20th level, but the Rogue advancement table says that the 7th offensive track ability is granted at 19th level.

Page 38: If a Flash Grenade is thrown at a square within 10 feet of the rogue, does he have to make a saving throw against it, as well?

Page 39: There is a space missing between the end of Flash Missile and the beginning of Sticky Bomb.

Page 39: The Sticky Bomb reservoir only bursts if you hit a person with it? Can you not aim it at a square? And if you can, then is there any reason why it shouldn't burst even if you miss your actual target?

Page 39: Does the rogue have to remain in one place for the 10 minutes it takes to refresh the two High Explosive charges? Or can they be assembled on the go (essentially making that 10 minutes just a cooldown period, which doesn't require any explicit action)?

Page 39: Sapper Rods doesn't mention the level at which it is gained; it is clear from the table that it is 13th, but as all the other Rogue abilities thus far mention it, it seems odd.

Page 39: Sapper Rods has a magical (or anti-magical) effect. Is it still to be considered an EX ability?

Page 39: Cluster Bomb capitalizes the "Bomb" of "Smells Like Victory Bomb", where the ability is only called "Smells Like Victory". Also, it refers to "Goo Bomb" rather than "Sticky Bomb".

Page 39: Again, it would be nice to have it be clear in Cluster Bomb and Da Big 'Un whether the rogue must also save against all the effects.

Page 40: The Offensive Track heading has no colon, and has some space between it and the beginning of its explanatory paragraph. The Defensive Track heading has a colon, and no space before its explanatory paragraph. Either works (though I somewhat prefer the former), but they should be the same.

Page 40: The Just That Quick description has a space between its two paragraphs, and its second paragraph is all left-justified, rather than being indented; in short, it acts like the paragraphs that have been under section headings, rather than like the paragraphs under ability descriptions.

Page 40: Several others have already mentioned the chatty dev-to-dev text in Don't Stop Me Now.

Page 40: Supersonic Man redundantly states, "This is an extraordinary ability."

Page 40: Again, under Invincible Dodge, the "th" of "20th" is not superscripted.

Page 40: Is the "take 15 on Reflex saves" intended to mean "at any time, under any circumstances"?

Page 40: "Ninjutsu" or "ninjitsu" are acceptable (though the former is more correct; the latter is something of an Anglicization). "Ninjuitsu" appears to be a typo :smallbiggrin:

Page 40-41: Are any of these ninjutsu-like abilities intended to be SU abilities? Some of them seem like they do more than could reasonably qualify as EX...

Page 41: The Fortune's Friend heading appears to be the same size as the ability headings, rather than the size of the sub-track headings.

Page 41: Perhaps the flavour text of A Little to the Left could benefit from a "would-be" or some similar qualifier on the "lethal"?

Page 41: Is the ally bonus for Improvisation intended to be in addition to, or instead of, gaining the bonus yourself?

Page 41: In the case of conditions that prevent you from acting, how is the time within the round when you use Better Lucky and Good to remove them determined?

Page 41: Again, in Changing the Odds, the "th" in "14th" is not superscripted.

Page 41: Perhaps it would be cleaner in Changing the Odds to refer to Fortune's Friend circles?

Page 42: The attempt at political correctness under Sage's Wrath is both heavy-handed and atmosphere-breaking. Sticking with either male pronouns or female pronouns, alternating between them, or cleverly avoiding them altogether, would all be vastly preferable.

Page 42 (but general): I note that there is a very common pattern of save DCs being "10 + 1/2 character level + (some ability modifier)". It might be worthwhile to define a shorthand for this early in the document, and then use that thereafter (something like "standard vs-Int DC" or "standard vs-KOM DC").

Page 42: Under Mental Thrust, however, it refers to "Key Ability modifier" rather than KOM or KDM. Looks like a relic from a previous version. ...Looking ahead a little, this recurs several times in the Sage descriptions. Page 43—Devastating Barrage, Voice of Devastation, Black Tidings, Dread Wave, Hammerfall; Page 44—Shields, Brace!; Page 45—Hungry Shadows, Lung-Breaker, Stutter Step, Gravity Smash

Page 42: Additionally, save types in some of the instances mentioned just above are listed without capitalization.

Page 43: Does the "blade" referred to in Mystic Focus have to be the blade created with the Grim Heritor ability? Or can it be any bladed weapon? Or, indeed, any weapon?

Page 43: How should the 20% miss chance be implemented? Is a separate set of d% to be rolled for each attack? Or should it take the form of an AC/save bonus? Or is this something normal that I'm just missing?

Page 43: There is a space missing between the colon of Voice of Devastation and the description text.

Page 43: "Black Tidings" or "your Tidings" are mentioned within that ability's sub-descriptions, and subsequently, without capitalization.

Page 43: Does "other ally" really need the square brackets, under Grey Hymn?

Page 43: Under both Red Hymn and Grey Hymn, it would be clearer and sound better to say "any ally of the sage's choice within 100 feet".

Page 43: With a Word takes no action, or a free action? (Though admittedly, I don't fully understand the difference yet :smallbiggrin: )

Page 44: Similar to the Red and Grey Hymns, the Crimson and Silver Hymns should have their subclauses swapped. And probably the square brackets removed.

Page 44: The choices under Binding should probably have names, as all the other track abilities with choices do. At the least, it helps to keep track of them.

Page 44: Not sure whether "caster level" is intended to simply mean "the caster's character level" or if it once had some more specific meaning...

Page 44: Under Stem the Tide, "You start any encounter with one rune placed" is confusing. Does it mean that, at the start of each encounter, you may or must choose an ally upon whom to bestow the rune? Or something else?

Page 44: Under Shields, Brace! the rune from Stem the Tide is referred to as a Shielding Rune, capitalized, as if it had already been described as such.

Page 44: Does Swift as Thought mean that you can also use Healing Burst an additional time in a round? Or that using A Stitch In Time uses up your Healing Burst for that round, as well?

Page 45: There is a space missing between the colon of Dweomertide and its description text.

Page 45: There is an extra period after the description of Space, Twisted.

Page 45: It would be good to indicate where Wall of Thorns is defined.

Page 45/120: Can a Sage increase the casting time of Wall of Thorns and reap the benefits, as described in the spell's description?

Page 45: The Arcane Secrets are listed as "SP" abilities. That is highly ambiguous, and could easily refer to either "Spell" or "Spell-like". "SL" or (if you really want to break the pattern with a 3-letter abbreviation) "SLA" would be much more appropriate.

Page 45: The Arcane Secrets are stated to all have a range of 100'+10' per character level; however, some of the Secrets specify their own ranges.

Page 45: The second paragraph of Gravity Smash is separated and un-indented, like section text rather than like ability text.

...I think that's enough for now. More to come, unless you tell me not to!

[Radar]

I had a thought recently concerning Immediate Actions and other counters: it would be helpful to have a clearly defined action-stacking system as, for example, the stack in M:tG. It isn't clear, what the order of actions should be and it's quite vital in many cases.
Responding with an Immediate Action to a Readied Action (that should probably by mentioned somwhere in the book, unless you've thrown it away and I didn't notice), which is followed by yet another Immediate Action is not an abstract scenario.

[Doc Roc]

It's proven to be really pertinent. I lean towards the definition of a set of comprehensive Competition rules for Legend, for handling these things that would normally be ad hoc'd.

@DelvinAnaris: I've directed Flickerdart and Chris's attention to this. We realllyyyy appreciate this.

[imperialspectre]

Okay, so I was planning on finishing race fluff this week and writing flight rules.

...I'm probably still doing that. But we have a huge amount of feedback to work through, along with an extensive expansion and rewrite of the stealth rules and flight rules. And we're probably doing an action stack.

So, with all of those things on the table, I have a couple things to say. First off, thank you guys so much for the feedback - potatocubed, DelvinAnaris, and those of you who hang out in IRC with us. Second off, please keep it coming. We will address your concerns. It may not happen immediately, because we've got a LOT of things going on right now in Legend, but it will happen.

[DelvinAnaris]

So, with all of those things on the table, I have a couple things to say. First off, thank you guys so much for the feedback - potatocubed, DelvinAnaris, and those of you who hang out in IRC with us. Second off, please keep it coming. We will address your concerns. It may not happen immediately, because we've got a LOT of things going on right now in Legend, but it will happen.

Cool. I may not have time to do more today, but I will try and finish up classes tomorrow if I can.

[Esser-Z]

Well, I like it. I like it a lot. Layout and stuff looks sharp, still fond of the mechanics. :smallbiggrin:

[DelvinAnaris]

Another marathon proofreading session, coming up...

Page 46: This may be implied by some of the d20-ish esoterica in the description, but: does Incantation require LoS/LoE?

Page 46-47: Only the first and last Incantation circle abilities have properly superscripted ordinals.

Page 46: A couple of times in the Imbue Spell description, "incantation" is referenced uncapitalized.

Page 47: When using Twin Incantation, do you have to use two attack incantations or two healing incantations, or can it be one of each?

Page 47: When using Imbue Spell with Twin Incantation, do you have to imbue the same spell in both incantations? If not, is there any restrictions on which two spells you can use—for instance, can they be of different circles?

Page 47: The third paragraph under "Shaman's Path" is slightly ambiguous, particularly in the switching between "class" and "track." It should be reworded to clarify that the mechanics are based off the class from whence the track comes, or the track itself if it is a bonus track.

Page 47: Spellcasting references "the table above"; it is currently found on the facing page.

Page 47: Are there other ways of learning a spell than the 1-per-level progression?

Page 48: Giving the Tactical Insight track/ability description an ability heading is confusing and inconsistent. Would it not be better to treat Tactical Insight as similar to the Paladin's Bastion or Knowing? As it is, it seems like Tactical Insight ought to be the first circle ability of the track, until you read as far as Combative Precognition.

Page 49: Particularly relevant to Psychological Warfare, does Tactical Insight require the Tactician to explicitly, verbally, communicate the information he gains from his Knowledge check to his allies? It would seem to somewhat negate the utility of knowing that the Knights of Splodge are all incredibly sensitive about their captain, and you should flatter him shamelessly to get on their good side, if the Knights in question hear you telling your ally that.

Page 49: The descriptions of the first three Tactical Insight abilities imply that their bonuses are all granted upon a successful Tactical Insight-based Knowledge check; however, Extra Insight implies that only one can be chosen. Am I reading one or both of these wrong?

Page 49: Like the pointed warning on Dread Secret—particularly appropriate given the nature of the track :smallbiggrin:

Page 49: Arcane sight is mentioned here; the location of its definition should be given, and possibly also a mention that it is a spell.

Page 49: The second sentence in The Enemy You Know sounds a bit odd; it might sound better to say "you can use this to" rather than "many tacticians use this to".

Page 49: What happens if someone hit with a Dweomerbreaker-empowered weapon has multiple effects of the highest circle? (Obvious answer: change wording to "a random effect of the highest circle")

Page 50 (also applicable to page 47): The rules for learning spells say nothing about being restricted in which circles you can learn spells from. Would it be permissible (however silly) to learn a second-circle spell at second level, even though it cannot be cast until third?

Page 51 (skills in general): OK, I waited till the Skill chapter to see if skill gain got any clearer, but it doesn't appear to have. Way back in §2.1.4, you say that the skills number listed for each class is the number of "skill points" gained per level; however, no definition is ever given for "skill points." It also says to pick this many skills on creation, and they will all be trained at each following level. Furthermore, two skills refer to their "skill rank (and one of these also to different "tiers"), but "skill rank" appears to be synonymous with character level. As far as I can tell, either you pick X skills at character creation, and these become "trained" (and thus have rank equal to your level), and then you can't pick any more, ever, or you pick X skills each level to become "trained". The former seems to make skills a little underpowered, while the latter seems to make them extremely overpowered (since I count no more than about 20 total skills, and X looks to be between 5 and 7, thus allowing all characters to have all skills trained by level 4...).

In order to be able to make sense out of it, I am going to proceed under the assumption that the "X skills at char creation become trained, no new skills afterward" version is your current intent, and the other stuff is legacy.

Page 51: The second paragraph mentions "sufficient focus in a particular skill," but as ranks in skill == character level, once a skill is chosen at creation, there is no further focusing to be done.

Page 51: I don't see anywhere that the ability references next to each skill are explained.

Page 52: Is the DC 25 example for Balancing intended to mean a spear sticking up, or pointed sideways?

Page 52: Are the DC 30 and 35 examples for Balancing intended to be serious? There are issues there not just of balance, but of weight; generally, one would expect a SU ability to be required for balancing on flying sand or airborne water droplets.

Page 52: Gotta like the DC 30 example for Jumping :smallbiggrin:

Page 52: What happens if you are climbing a surface, you have made your check, but halfway up, something interrupts you? Common sense would suggest another roll is needed, but as written, it indicates that it would not be unless the actual difficulty was changed.

Page 52: Again, the DC 35 check for Climbing suggests that simply by becoming superhumanly good at a skill, you can actually ignore gravity.

Page 52: It doesn't appear that any other skill provides constant bonuses commensurate with those granted by Athletics; in particular, none have the scaling that Athletics has. That would seem to make Athletics almost a default "must-have" skill.

Well, I'm out of time for now. More later (probably tomorrow).

[Nohwl]

problems/stuff from that match with radar
1 where does the signature ride appear, under the person or beside them?- under the person
2 ride check to use signature ride?- no
3 throwing voice to hide where i am- being worked on?
4 stealth is very powerful- getting fixed
5 no active way to search- being fixed?
6 goggles blind you when you use them -emergency ruling was made to make them work
7 action stack needs to be made to resolve problems and timing issues
8 when my name is war is activated- ruled at the same time action is taken
9 when penalties and bonuses are applied for things like power attack if you ready an action- ruled that bonuses and penalties apply as soon as you use it, for example if you use reckless strike as a partial move and then ready an action, the ac drop happens as soon as you use the partial move, not during the attack if it gets triggered.
10 return fire hits someone using my name is war- ruled that the immediate action isn't taken away if you get hit by return fire
11 someone with spring attack attacking someone with a readied action- ruled to have readied action go off after the attack
12 i have no idea how to fight someone i can't see- probably has nothing to do with legend. maybe a tactics section so you can explain focus firing and stuff like that?
13 stacking armor so you can't be hit- rider armor, ironmountain plate, and the relic armors had different bonus types
14 does shouting reveal where you are when you are using stealth? i think chris ruled that it did, but you still benefited from the miss chance.
15 magic items have auras, using stealth prevents auras from being seen- don't know if you wanted to change this
16 when do attacks of opportunity happen, before or after the action that provoked them?
17 does fast healing and any healing show up at all and how would you notice it?
18 is there a check to estimate the opponents remaining hp? bucky suggested medicine and i think claudius said move action to do it.
19 and my axe works when axe is wielded, so if i use rider kick and axe is out, i get bonuses to damage
20 can you ready an action then move?- ruled yes
21 flat footed duration not listed on return fire.
22 flat footed on acrobatics check only applies when they are attacking, prevents someone from using kensai or something to block the attacks, but does not take away immediate actions of the person after the attack is done.
23 remove fatigue from rage with fortune's friend, is this intended?
24 attack bonus for some magic weapons not listed, for example rolling thunder has no to hit bonus.
25 is there any way to remove flat footed once you are hit with it?
26 guns can be shot once in an encounter without a feat. can you make this more noticable? maybe set them off in their own section or something?
27 defensive fighting can give a character up to their level in armor, it might be a problem for characters that get extra to hit because you can use it to stack ac.
28 do defensive fighting and take cover stack? i don't think there's anything preventing them from stacking, i'd just have to make a melee attack and a ranged attack in the same round.
29 if i tried to track an opponent, would that show me where they were, or would stealth hide that? what action is it to track an opponent, and if it's a move action, how are you supposed to catch the opponent by tracking them if they move and then use a standard to withdraw?
30 you have 5 words per free action, i don't think this was listed anywhere.
31 return fire provokes attacks of opportunity if you are in melee range with the person...you might take more damage because of that than you would deal to them.
32 how visible is damage reduction, energy resistance and things like that?
33 bonus damage from rolling thunder is supposed to be electric, not sonic.

i think that's everything i had problems with. not sure about radar.

[Radar]

problems/stuff from that match with radar
(...)
i think that's everything i had problems with. not sure about radar.
You summed it up better then I would ever.

Concerning point 33: IMO thunder is more likely to be represented with sonic damage as opposed to a lightning, which is electric (you see lightning, you hear thunder).

[DelvinAnaris]

And it continues.

Page 54: The Daredevil section of Ride says you can duplicate any function of the Acrobatics skill by making a Ride check. This indicates that you don't have to have a well-trained mount to be able to, say, balance on clouds: you just have to be an amazingly good rider. Is that really intended?

Page 54: The Tiers on Ride seem out of place.

Page 54: Is "Identification", on its own, intended to be a separate Knowledge skill? Or is it just intended to explain the "Identification" section in each of the Knowledge skills?

Page 54: Arcana's Design effect sub-skill looks pretty incomplete. I'm gonna assume it is simply incomplete, and that all the obvious stuff that's missing will be added at some point. :smallsmile:

Page 55: You can trace sabotage with the Perception skill?

Page 55: "Somehow, you have a very good idea of which turns to take"? Really? When the tunnels are constantly shifting, and you're just using a Geography skill check?

Page 56: "You can restore the health a creature"—missing an "of" in there.

Page 56: Doesn't it say somewhere else that dead as a doornail is at -CON HP, not -10 HP?

Page 57: The other skills name their sub-skills. Nature does not.

Page 54-57: All the Knowledge skills use Int as their relevant stat (despite its precise relevance never being clearly defined); would it be worthwhile just to mention that in their overview, and remove the (Int)s from the descriptions?

Page 57: There is a space missing between the end of the Interaction Skills Overview and the first Interaction Skill.

Page 57: Do you mean "the specific rules for using these skills in social encounters" or "the specific rules for conducting social encounters"? Because without either qualifier, it sounds like the latter—but the latter is not "below", it's in chapter VIII.

Page 57: You say in each Interaction Skill's combat section that "Using a skill as part of a move action halves your movement for that round." Wouldn't it be more sensible to define this elsewhere, and not have to say it for each skill? (Even just say it as part of the Overview on the same page?)

Page 57: Maybe I'm missing something, but you don't appear to indicate anything about the DC of interaction skills in combat.

Page 58: Oh. Here it looks like the ability next to each skill is finally explained. Is there a good reason this is not at the beginning of the chapter?

Page 58: Middle of "Using Skills", you've either got an extra space after your em-dash, or you're missing one in front of it. Either way, should be kept consistent. (And I fully approve of em-dashes with no space on either side, and think that all your spaced-out hyphens should be replaced with them :smallbiggrin: )

Page 59: I presume there's going to be a general explanation of feats largely cribbed from d20 at some point.

Page 59: By Will Sustained sounds like it used to refer to levels at one time. Now it just says "fifth", "eighth", and "twelfth". I note that it also spells these out, which is unusual.

Page 59: Exit, Stage Left also mentions "9th"—presumably level, but it doesn't say. Also, the "th" is not superscripted.

Page 59: Actually, none of the ordinals on this page are superscripted.

Page 59: Feign Death's description is a little confusing. It says you may "feint," which at first looks like it's a typo for "faint." But then it goes on to refer to "denying a target their Dex bonus" in a way that implies that that's what a feint usually does—while "feint" is neither defined nor even mentioned anywhere else in the document. However, that also doesn't make any sense with the main purpose of the feat. If you're going to "feign death" then just feinting in combat doesn't seem particularly relevant; you might be able to feign undeath that way, but not actual death. But...fainting in combat, and pretending to be dead, sounds like a good way to get your throat cut to make sure.

Gotta do some other stuff now, so I'll leave it there for the time being.

[Doc Roc]

We expect to have consumables done quite soon, which will give us a more traditional kind of loot.

[DelvinAnaris]

Forging on into the rest of the feats...

General: Capitalization of "level" in prerequisites is quite inconsistent. Always "Level" or always "level", but pick one.

Page 60: There appears to be an extra space above the first line in the left column.

Page 60/general: Not loving the drunkard feats. I'm sure some people will find them both cool and hil-arious, but to me they just smack of frat-boy immaturity. The fact that there's a whole chain of them doesn't help this.

Page 60: I Am the Keg-ocalypse refers twice to "dexterity" and once to "dex" uncapitalized.

Page 60: I'm guessing that "for the three times the duration" is not meant to have the "the" in there.

Page 60: The "Special" under Multiclass Flexibility should be formatted consistently with other such Specials.

Page 60: I presume that when using My Shadow Grows Long you get to choose the BAB at which you make the attack, if you have more than one?

Page 60: You're missing the "A" of "At 9th level" in Objective Analysis.

Page 60-62: None of the ordinals on these pages are superscripted. (Nor on most of the pages thereafter. I'm not going to keep mentioning this, but it should be the subject of a careful review.)

Page 60: To be clear, Objective Analysis grants these further insights at level X, regardless of when the feat is taken? So if you don't take the feat until 9th level, you still gain the perfect clarity for 15 mins, detailed info for 1/2 hour, etc, instantly?

Page 61: The slash between "detect" and "disarm" in Rune Magic is backwards.

Page 61: "At first level, you may have one trap active at any time." Does "active" mean "set"? And if you set a second trap, what happens? Does it fail? Does the first deactivate? Can you choose? Can you reactivate one set while you were at your limit, once you are no longer at your limit? ...I could go on, but I think "it needs clarifying" will serve. :smallbiggrin:

Page 61: I note that Rune Magic states that it has no prerequisites, but uses spells the user possesses. Is this a case of "give them enough rope to hang themselves," where someone can take the feat, but then be unable to use it?

Page 61: (Leaving aside the incomprehensibility of the feat) Seven Drunken Immortals has "(1d4 +1)"; the spacing appears to be lopsided. This is an issue I've noticed before, and should have mentioned, but somehow didn't. Spacing between dice and pluses should be more consistent, in general.

Page 61: Slow and Steady should probably clarify "1st level only".

Page 61: Summon Mote: Do you really mean "malevolent"?

Page 61: 5th-6th lines of Summon Mote's description, "It can a carry small object"; move the "a" after "carry".

Page 61: There appears to be an extra space above the first line of the right column.

Page 61: The formatting of the second paragraph of Summon Mote is a bit odd; it looks like it's indented a single space, with about 1.1x the normal line spacing between it and the paragraph before.

Page 61: You can siphon the Mote's HP; how fast does it recover? Or can you only siphon it all off at once (and then it recovers all at once in 10 rounds/end of encounter)?

Page 61: Capitalization of "HP" in Summon Mote is inconsistent.

Page 61: Can the Mote communicate with its summoner in any way besides the one language, or allow its summoner to use its darkvision or blindsight?

Page 61: "It also gains blindsight out to 10 ft." - This sentence should be swapped with the sentence after it.

Page 61: You may have two motes active—but must you? How does the second mote appear? Can you dismiss it and call it back? How?

Page 61: Is the mote visible to others? If so, can it try to prevent itself from being discovered? Being able to pass through walls and go as far as you want from you makes it perfect for spying, so people will use it for this; it's important to know the degree to which it can be used as such without getting found and splattered.

Page 61: In The Bigger They Are, "categories" should be "category".

Page 61: The Bitter Dregs seems very peculiar. Just for not being a raging alcoholic, you can get +1 on any d20?

Page 61: Might be nice to have a page/section reference for tremorsense.

Page 61: Your ordering of prerequisites seems arbitrary (sometimes level first, sometimes not); relatedly, the second prerequisite for The Left Hand of Death is erroneously capitalized.

Page 62: Same capitalization issue in The Right Hand of Creation.

Page 62: Is that just meant to be flavour text on The Sky Empties, or can you really not see the stars? 'Cause, y'know, that can actually make a difference sometimes (navigation, for instance).

Page 62: So the shadow servitors channel your voice? Can this only be used for social encounters? Or could it be used, say, to communicate with your party while you're out scouting (or imprisoned, or whatever)?

Page 62: Troubleshooter again has capitalization issues with its prereqs.

Page 62: Does Truly Bad People damage any one adjacent creature (your choice, I presume) or all adjacent creatures?

Page 63: "Character level 10th"? That's both inconsistent and awkward...

Page 63: A Light Against Shadow, near the end, "...by 2 per character level and must make a fortitude save..."; understandable, but not grammatical. Probably best to replace it with "...by 2 per character level. They must also make a fortitude save..."

Page 63: There should be a hyphen between "Left" and "Handed."

Page 63: If you mean what I think you mean in I Am Not Left-Handed, it would be clearer to phrase it as "...the AC of all creatures in a 60 ft radius, including you."

Page 64: In the 8th line of Justice, Blind, there should be a comma between "level" and "and"—or, even better, the widening of the Ghostwise Sight should be split out into a separate sentence.

Page 64: In Last Son of a Dead World, there is an extra space between "Damage Reduction" and "2".

Page 64: My Name Is War: So you can copy someone else's ability at the instant they use it (which I can see having potential thorns in it); more confusing is copying your own ability as you use it. That may need some serious clarification.

Page 64: On A Pale Horse: So...is it "whenever you slay an enemy" or "as a free action, three times per encounter"?

Page 64: Second line of Strike Down's Description, there should not be a space between the ellipsis and the following word.

Page 64: There appears to be an extra space between "charge." and "When" on the fourth line of Strike Down's Benefit.

Page 64: Strike Down references "tenth" level, spelled out.

Page 64: Strike Down references the Mental Thrust ability uncapitalized.

Page 65: Is there only one combat feat that applies to any given kind of weapon? Will there always be only one such? Or do you have to pick between them when you wield the appropriate type of weapon? Or do you really mean "gain the benefit of only the ones that apply to the weapon you are currently using"?

Page 65: By Steel Beholden has as prerequisite "9th".

Page 65: Why are the last three lines of Cataphract up on the second column, when there are clearly three more lines available in the first (judging by Kensai next to it)?

Page 65: In Mithril Reborn has as prerequisite "12th".

Page 65: Are you sure you don't mean "Kensei"?

Page 65: Kensai capitalizes "Focus" on its first mention, but never thereafter, and never in the previous feats that mentioned it.

Page 65 (and previous): Several different feats grant focus points; can these be used for any such feat, or are each feat's points specific only to itself?

Page 66: Does Master of Swordplay require that the "other feat" be one that you already know? Or is it one that you select when taking Master of Swordplay? Or, indeed, one that you select and change around later?

Page 66: Musketeer references Deadly Aim uncapitalized.

Page 66: Perfect Defense specifies no range.

Page 66: The second paragraph of Reckless Strike is neither vertically offset nor indented. (I'm not sure which it should be, but it should be at least one...)

Page 66: Sniper's prerequisite has a period after it; none of the others do.

Page 67: Does the shockwave from Tell Them, Still Angry damage objects?

Page 67: The Bind Offense status effect is never mentioned outside the description for The Terrible Swift Lash.

Page 67: There is an extra period after the sentence that ends on the 3rd-to-last line of The Terrible Swift Lash.

Page 67: This Is a Knife references "constitution" uncapitalized.

Page 67: "Critical effect" as a bracketed condition is never references outside the description for This Is a Knife.

Page 67: There is unnecessary vertical space above To Iron Married.

Page 67: If you use To Pierce the Heavens to make the squares in your reach impassable, what happens to people caught inside who do not opt to be pushed out? And what does "Your reach is then doubled" mean? It seems quite unclear.

Page 67: Way of the Gun: "...with it than normal people never could."; "than" should be "that".

Page 68: Does the Mountain Scout feat bonus apply only to Acrobatics checks performed when actually attempting to move on difficult terrain?

Page 68: Cloaked Spellcasting mentions "caster level"; should it instead have as prerequisite "Tactician or Shaman class"? Or "spellcasting class"?

Page 68: Does the +2 feat bonus from Cloaked Spellcasting apply only when using Cloaked Spellcasting?

Page 68: At the end of the first paragraph of Confusion's description, "the rest of the encounter" is in a different font than everything else.

Page 68: Again, does the Danger Sense feat bonus apply only to Perception checks for the feat?

Page 68: How common is "damage resistance"? And is it the same thing as the "damage reduction" that Last Son of a Dead World can grant?

Page 69: Flyby Attack lists as a prerequisite "Fly speed". I presume what it means is "the ability to fly"; however, that's an odd way of putting it.

Page 69: Again, does the Ghost Hunter feat bonus apply only to Perception checks for the feat?

Page 69: In Sinister Sinews, there should be a "check" between "Intimidate" and "and".

Page 69: Again, does the Terrifying Shout feat bonus apply only to Intimidate checks for the feat?

That's it for feats, and my time for today. More will follow sooner or later.

[Cieyrin]

Was throwing together a character for a Legend game and decided to give myself a little challenge: Model the Hero Prinny from Disgaea. With a little refluffing, I think I was pretty successful. Check it out, dood! Private Kale (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=312123)

My only regret is I couldn't get Tell Them, Still Angry in to simulate the Prinny Explosion but I figure the Hero Scarf nullifies that for the most part, anyways. :smallwink:

[Doc Roc]

Was throwing together a character for a Legend game and decided to give myself a little challenge: Model the Hero Prinny from Disgaea. With a little refluffing, I think I was pretty successful. Check it out, dood! Private Kale (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=312123)

My only regret is I couldn't get Tell Them, Still Angry in to simulate the Prinny Explosion but I figure the Hero Scarf nullifies that for the most part, anyways. :smallwink:

This is phenomenal.

[DelvinAnaris]

Onward, into Combat!

Page 72: The first sentence there doesn't work too well. Or rather, the reference to "initiative" there doesn't. It implies that "initiative" is a synonym for "turn", which (unless Legend's terminology is quite different from that which I'm used to) it isn't. Since initiative is defined more clearly immediately after this paragraph, it's probably best to just leave off this reference.

Page 72: So if I have a Dex modifier of 3, and roll 16, and someone else has a Dex modifier of 4, and rolls a 15, they go first, even though they got the lower roll? That seems slightly backwards to me...though I can see an argument that because they are innately faster they get to go first. Not sure. :smallconfused:

Page 72: When delaying, do you specify at that time when you want to delay your turn until? Or do you get to jump in after anyone's turn and say, "My turn now!"?

Page 73: Under As Part of Move, it might be good to add to the end, "for that round."

Page 73: Ah, so you only get 5 "Free Actions" per round; that's why some things use a free action, and others have no action cost. Makes more sense now.

Page 73: Does "drawing a weapon" include sheathing another weapon, or do you have to drop it?

Page 74: The sentence about attacking at a higher range category for a penalty took me several tries to fully parse. It would be helpful if it were clarified somewhat. Maybe something along the lines of, "An ability that requires an attack roll, and is not [Melee]-ranged, can be used at a higher range category than its native one, but only at a -4 penalty to the attack roll."

Page 74: As I understand it (no firsthand experience), some ranged weapons should be less effective at close range (not [Close], just close). Is there not going to be any attempt to model that? Based on the greatly-simplified weapon stuff I saw on previous readthroughs, I'm guessing not, but I thought I'd check.

Page 74: Round duration—what happens if there are 20 combatants, the 19th casts a spell with 1-round duration, and then the 20th casts a spell that kills 10 of the combatants? How do you then count the duration?

Page 75: Should Difficult Terrain cost "twice the squares" rather than "two squares", given what was said earlier about diagonal movement?

Page 75: So the Five-Foot Step has no action cost, but can only be taken if you used your Move action to do something besides moving?

Page 75: What about flying straight down? I mean, yeah, I know, falling, but to what degree can flying creatures control their falls?

Page 76: If you make an attack of opportunity on someone making a ranged attack, and succeed, does it affect the ranged attack? Similarly with spells/SLAs?

Page 76: Under Combat Maneuvers, "Unless otherwise stated," what?

Page 76: Under Charge, "Your charge attack, and any other attacks..., gains", should be gain.

Page 77: Using "flurry" as a verb, in the first sentence of the definition of that maneuver, seems...odd. Might be better to change the first sentence to something more like, "The Flurry maneuver uses a standard action."

...Running out of time (too much switching to IRC :smallbiggrin: ). More later this week.

[Flickerdart]

All typesetting issues that were pointed out have been corrected (it may take some time for them to reflect in the live version). We appreciate your feedback.

[DelvinAnaris]

And I'm back, with more nitpicks!

Page 78: So Tremorsense senses tremors in the air, or in the earth? Since the first mention of the ability is in the feat The Earth Cracks, it sounds a lot like it ought to be tremors in the earth, but the description here implies otherwise.

Page 78: Blindsight is "generally more limited in range" than Darkvision, but it doesn't give any clue as to how much more limited.

Page 79: Do we really want to refer to "spell abilities"? It seems better, under [Healing] Effects, to refer to "spells and supernatural or spell-like abilities".

Page 79: There is extra vertical space between the §6.8 and §6.8.1 headers (more than seems usual between such headers).

Page 79: Do any of the alternative vision modes have any effect on the Blinded condition?

Page 80: Does the "flying creature" in question in Blown Away have to be flying at the time, or does it simply affect all creatures who can fly that way?

Page 80: You do know that there are only two spells with the [glamer] descriptor, right? (Invisibility/Silence and Greater Invisibility)

Page 80: Is the AC bonus from Covered typed?

Page 80: Under Disabled, "has become stables and conscious"; "stables" should be "stable".

Page 80-81: The separation between paragraphs is inconsistent between Dead and Disabled.

Page 81: While it's not exactly a stretch to figure it out, it would be helpful if, instead of saying, "roll d%" and then "has 10% chance", the description for Dying specified what needs to be rolled to become stable. It would also make that part of the description sound less disjointed.

Page 81: Hit Dice? When did we get Hit Dice?

Page 81: For those who have been Energy Drained, is the loss of 5hp a damage effect, or is it 5 max hp lost?

Page 81: Does the Fear Ladder really belong here? Shouldn't it be on the next page? (With, as Potato mentioned, a nice separator line or box or whatever)

Page 82: Wouldn't it make more sense to group the Fear effects together, in increasing order of fearfulness?

Page 82: So Nauseated characters can do less than Disabled characters?

Page 82: It would be helpful to append to the last sentence of the Paralyzed description, "for the purposes of movement", or simply state that it counts as rough terrain.

Page 83: If a petrified character has, say, a finger broken off, that is not present when the character is unpetrified:
a) Will the place where it should be act as if it had just been cut off? (bleeding, pain, etc)
b) Will the stone finger turn back to flesh wherever it is?
c) If not, can it be turned back to flesh if found?
d) In either case, can it be reattached by magic? (Probably a broader question about the limits of magical healing there...)

Page 83: Under Prone, shouldn't it just be "a move action", rather than "move-equivalent"?

Page 83: Under Shaken, there is an extra space between "state" and "of".

Page 83: What is the difference between Nauseated and Sickened? Or, perhaps, why is there a mechanical difference between them?

Page 83: At higher levels, there are abilities that grant extra standard and move actions. Should Slowed take this into account, saying something more like, "A slowed character must choose between standard and move actions on his turn," or is it intentional that higher-level characters be less affected by this condition?

Page 83: Under Stable, shouldn't "Heal check" be "Medicine check"?

Page 83: Isn't there plenty of room below the first paragraph of Stable to fit the second paragraph in in the same column?

Page 83: Under Unconscious, "-[Con score]" should be "-(Constitution)" to maintain consistency with earlier usage.

Page 84: Under Miss Chance, "d100" is referred to rather than "d%".

Page 84: "Ward ffects"

That's all of chapter VI, and that's all for now.

[DelvinAnaris]

A glutton for punishment, I guess.

Page 86: The chapter heading seems like it wants either a colon, semicolon, or em-dash after "GM Tools".

Page 86: There is a space before the first word on the first line of this chapter.

Page 86: It seems to me that there are plenty of ways you can make an encounter out of the party running into something that's vastly too powerful for them to fight on their own merits. So you can't fight Godzilla; well, is there anything nearby that you could improvise into a weapon? A shelter? A way to get innocent bystanders to safety?

Page 86: It's not clear whether the italicized section "About Encounter Rules" is meant to be part of §7.2, come after §7.2, or just be a general sidebar.

Page 87: Is it necessary to (re-)state, in the second paragraph of Basic Calculation, that X creatures of the same level have an encounter level X higher than the creatures' level? Given the first sentence of this paragraph, it seems like it would make more sense to provide an example of how to calculate the EL of a larger group of mixed-level creatures—for instance, several level X-1 creatures, several level X, and one level X+1 leader. Or something.

Page 88: The last line of the first column is one line above the last line of the second column, for no apparent reason.

More later.

[DelvinAnaris]

Back again, for more proofreading.

Page 91: You mention "[leadership] feats"; this is never referenced elsewhere.

Page 91: Last paragraph, "...enemy has abilities that the player's can't counter"; if you mean "the abilities of the players", then it should be "players'"; otherwise, it should just be "players".

Page 93-4: It never seems to be explicitly stated—is a given token usable against only the specific person it was gained against, or against anyone?

Page 93-4: I've had various doubts niggling at me over the Social Encounter idea, and one of them just popped its head up and made itself clear: It seems to me that some people with whom one would have a social encounter ought to start out with a significant supply of tokens. High-ranking people who already have a high enough position that they don't have to worry about the opinion of the PCs, and/or who can command such resources that they don't need to worry about the ire of the PCs, would head this list.

Page 94: Under Secrecy, second paragraph: having just done a global search of the document, I know for a fact that tokens are never mentioned in chapter 11. Though this does suggest that there should be something that addresses my previous gripe...

Page 95: There's a lot of detail given there for characters who are never mentioned again. It would be nice to see these characters (and maybe a couple more) introduced and defined much closer to the beginning, and then used for examples throughout the document. ...Also, it's much easier to read tabular data like a character statblock when it's not italicized.

Page 96: §9.1 seems to be missing something. But I presume you know that.

Page 96: The first lines of the Creation and Divination descriptions are each indented by a space.

Page 96: You mention "three core spellcasting tracks", but only two classes that access them.

Page 97: Sanctuary—What does "ignore" mean, exactly? For that matter, what does "hostile" mean? (Would cutting a cord that drops a chandelier on their heads be hostile? Would brandishing the scissors while walking purposefully toward the cord be hostile? etc)

Page 97: Does Cure Moderate Wounds have the option of removing any of the lesser conditions that Cure Light removes?

Page 97: The inverted versions of the spells here all seem to have periods outside their parentheses. This seems wrong, given that they are not part of another sentence.

Page 97: Inflict Light Wounds is in the red sans-serif font of the other spell titles; the other inverted versions here are not.

Page 98: Starting with the Fourth Circle spells, some of the spell blurbs begin capitalized. Prior to this, none were capitalized, and subsequently some are still not. One way or the other, this should be made consistent.

Page 98: Crush of Earth's inverted form explicitly says "Reverse effect:", which is not present in any previous such blurbs.

Page 98: Heal's inverted form is not in parentheses, and is not named: it simply says "Reversal:". Same for Mass Heal.

Page 98: "Hallow"? Is that deliberately the same as the name of the world?

Page 99: There is no space between the last spell of the Tactician's First Circle and the header of the Second Circle.

Page 99: Tactical Deployment needs an article before "entire encounter".

Page 100: Acid Fog and Arcane Blade call themselves Conjuration spells, rather than the earlier defined Creation. This is also true of later spells of this type. Looks like it wants a global search & replace, if Creation is what is truly wanted.

Page 100: Bless (Bane) formats its reversal differently from all the others; to be consistent, the spell itself should just be Bless, and its reversal indicated as being called Bane, with a vertical space between the reversal title and the reversal description.

Page 101: The short blurb for Bloodwind earlier mentioned that it was a "howling wind"; however, apart from the name, wind is mentioned nowhere in the spell's full description.

Page 101: Is there any way to detect the sensor for Clair(voyance/audience)?

Page 101: Comprehend Languages mentions two spells, without italicizing or otherwise specially formatting their names.

Page 102: The formatting of Control Winds is a bit odd; it would probably be good to bold, italicize, or otherwise specially format the key terms like "downdraft", and there should certainly be a vertical space before Wind Strength. Unless that part is getting moved to the new Environment section I've been hearing about.

Page 102: Winds that strong are only a tornado if they're rotating. (And lesser winds can be a tornado, but the rotation is the main thing.)

Page 102: Is it necessary for Reverse Gravity to specify duration of Encounter, when it's the same as Crush of Earth?

Page 103: Cure Critical Wounds lists no casting time.

Page 103: Cure Critical Wounds puts a space between the reversal's statblock and its description; the other reversals here do not do so.

Page 103: The Cure spells say that they remove one or more conditions affecting the creature, without any list of conditions to limit this; this contradicts the earlier blurbs.

Page 103: The Cure spells list no saving throw, as they are harmless. However, they are [Positive] effects, which means that they harm undead. Should they not also have a Will half saving throw for the [Positive] effect, as they do for the reverse [Negative] effect?

That's all for now.

[Flickerdart]

Newest document has been uploaded, and will be available on the OP mirror shortly.

[Valairn]

*Massive Proofreading Endeavor*

That's some serious proofreading. I love you, and I'm not even working on the project!

[DelvinAnaris]

That's some serious proofreading. I love you, and I'm not even working on the project!

Heheh, I need to get the time to finish it.

This is what comes of having an English professor for a mother, and a perfectionist for a wife. :smallbiggrin:

[Flickerdart]

New doc is up.

You may notice that there are now words under the class tables, that don't have any numbers next to them. This is because we've finally started on class fluff! If you can't get enough of these numberless words, thumb over to the Races section and marvel in the glory of completed fluff for all the races.

You may also not notice the aforementioned words because you are staring, dumbfounded, at the awe-inspiring majesty of our original class artwork, commissioned for the project from talented illustrators Jynsing and Tabnir. Illustrations are also slated for the remaining classes, as well as select feats, spells and extra tracks. If you have a favourite that you really want illustrated, be sure to tell us!

[Cieyrin]

New doc is up.

You may notice that there are now words under the class tables, that don't have any numbers next to them. This is because we've finally started on class fluff! If you can't get enough of these numberless words, thumb over to the Races section and marvel in the glory of completed fluff for all the races.

You may also not notice the aforementioned words because you are staring, dumbfounded, at the awe-inspiring majesty of our original class artwork, commissioned for the project from talented illustrators Jynsing and Tabnir. Illustrations are also slated for the remaining classes, as well as select feats, spells and extra tracks. If you have a favourite that you really want illustrated, be sure to tell us!

Glee! Shiny! Haven't gotten a chance to look at the new fluff and pics yet but looking forward to it. :smallcool:

[Radar]

I like the added race fluff. It is also commendable, that the barbarian wears something more sensible then typical fantasy armor.

All in all, good update. :smallsmile:

[WhiteHarness]

I wanted to like this, and was enjoying the read-through...

...until I got to the part about mundane armour only adding +1/+2 to Armour Class.

Wow.

I get that you want to place the emphasis on characters instead of gear, but that sells armour pretty damn short. It goes too far, IMO.

Yeah, that one little thing totally ruins it for me.

[Cieyrin]

I wanted to like this, and was enjoying the read-through...

...until I got to the part about mundane armour only adding +1/+2 to Armour Class.

Wow.

I get that you want to place the emphasis on characters instead of gear, but that sells armour pretty damn short. It goes too far, IMO.

Yeah, that one little thing totally ruins it for me.

Legend is less about bonuses and attempts to do most of the math behind the scenes so you don't have to. There are other methods of defence besides AC as well. It's not the end all, be all and really, that +1 or 2 doesn't seem like a lot but it really does make a difference in the end.

[Radar]

I wanted to like this, and was enjoying the read-through...

...until I got to the part about mundane armour only adding +1/+2 to Armour Class.

Wow.

I get that you want to place the emphasis on characters instead of gear, but that sells armour pretty damn short. It goes too far, IMO.

Yeah, that one little thing totally ruins it for me.
It does seem a bit small, but if you run the numbers, then it turns out to be well adjusted. It's quite difficult to gain attack bonus beyond BAB and main stat, so every bit counts. There are magical armors as well and you can stack it all with a shield.

Let's take two full BAB characters of the same level without stat modifiers (for the sake of simplicity). The have 50% chance to hit each other with their first attack, 25% for the second and 5% with all the other attacks (if they have any). Factor in a heavy mundane armor: +2 AC means a drop of 10 percent points in the chance to hit. This translates to 40% chance to hit with the first attack, 15% chance for the second and 5% for all others. It drops the ammount of hits by over 20%, so it's significant in my book.

[Doc Roc]

I wanted to like this, and was enjoying the read-through...

...until I got to the part about mundane armour only adding +1/+2 to Armour Class.

Wow.

I get that you want to place the emphasis on characters instead of gear, but that sells armour pretty damn short. It goes too far, IMO.

Yeah, that one little thing totally ruins it for me.

I disagree. Even the +2 is quite considerable given how tightly we've controlled other sources of AC. More than that, shields add a quite considerable additional bonus.

But most critically, mundane armor just isn't an expectation past level 5. You get magic items. If you don't get them, you don't get them because you gave them away for a track. If you made that choice, you need to reconcile yourself to the fact that you're going to lose certain perks.

I want to highlight this. The bonuses carried by magic items are a part of our math regarding what a character can do.

[potatocubed]

Had a very, very brief look at the new doc. One piece of feedback:

Turn hyphenation on.

I'm not a fan of ragged right-hand edges on my text, but that's a personal preference. If you're going to go that way, though, you need to turn on automatic hyphenation (it's in the paragraph style options in InDesign, if that's what you're using) because right now your ragged edge is really ragged. Hyphenation would even that out a little. Maybe also increase the space between columns by a mm or two.