Fixing Berserker Strength

[BillyBobJoe]

Berserker Strength is a Barbarian rage variant in the PHBII that activates when you get to lower hit points. It gives +4 Strength, DR 2/-, -2 AC, and rage limitations. It has an unlimited amount of uses, but only activates when you get below Barbarian level x 5 hit points. That means that it only activates when you're about to get 1-shotted. Worse, you can't voluntarily leave the rage until you're healed above the threshold or knocked unconscious. We had a houserule in place that I didn't even realize was a houserule until I looked it up. Our Barbarian//Crusader (it was Gestalt) NPC had it activate whenever he went below 1/2 HP. Would this be a valid fix if you could voluntarily end it?

[Cog]

Berserker Strength

Would this be a valid fix if you could voluntarily end it?
I think you might be missing the point. Berserkers are supposed to be out of control. The HP limit could use a fix, though, yeah. It could scale faster than level, perhaps, making it easier to enter, representing the more uses/day a standard rager gets.

[BillyBobJoe]

Well, I was mostly just suggesting that so you weren't stuck in rage every round even after combat. Maybe it should last until the encounter ends?

[Cog]

Well, I was mostly just suggesting that so you weren't stuck in rage every round even after combat. Maybe it should last until the encounter ends?
That seems acceptable. Out of combat and a will save (10+your rage's strength boost?) might be more fitting, but that's up to personal taste, of course.

[Big Fau]

The biggest problem with that variant is that your HP is going to be so high that it's never on for half of the encounter, and for the other half you are likely to be at negative HP (because combat is screwy like that).


It really isn't an effective variant. Basic Rage is more useful because you can always ensure that it's active at the start of an encounter (since it's a free action).

[Cog]

It really isn't an effective variant. Basic Rage is more useful because you can always ensure that it's active at the start of an encounter (since it's a free action).
This is a good point. Why don't we see what we can do to fix that? Let's ditch the HP limit entirely - not only do hits get bigger at higher levels, more effects bypass hitpoints entirely, making this alternative scale even more poorly than it already does.

Mad Foam Rager might be a nice starting point, so I'll play off that.

BERSERKER STRENGTH

Tactical use of combat abilities is something better left to those scrawny Fighters. You don't save your strength; if somebody hits you, you smash their head in.

Level: 1st.

Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain Rage, nor any later improvements to that class feature.

Benefit: Whenever you are targeted with an attack roll (melee or ranged; touch attacks count as well) or are the target of a spell or special attack, you may use an immediate action to activate Berserker Strength. You may only do this once per encounter, and you must be able to take an immediate action, but you have no limit on the number of times per day you may activate this ability. The effect that triggered your immediate action is deferred by one round, but even if you gain some immunity or resistance to the effect meanwhile, those defenses to not apply to the triggering effect.

Additionally, you gain the standard benefits of a Barbarian's Rage; these improve with your level, just as for the standard Barbarian. You face the same restrictions on skill uses and other activities as a standard Barbarian, plus one additional one: you cannot voluntarily end your activation of Berserker Strength. It continues for the length of the encounter, and only after the encounter has resolved can you attempt to shake it off, by making a Will save versus 12+the strength bonus granted by your Berserker Strength as a full-round action. If you fail this check, you must spend the next turn making at least one attack; you can target creatures or objects freely, but you must attempt to cause damage using the resources available to you. You can repeat this attempt every other round, and when your Berserking does end, you are fatigued for 10 minutes. This condition is a result of your strength being over-extended, and so immunity to fatigue does not overcome it; however, immunity to fatigue would instead prevent you from suffering exhaustion if you otherwise might. At third level and every two levels after, you reduce the duration of your fatigue by one minute.
_____

This version ends up being easier to activate than normal Rage instead of harder (though area effects like Fireball won't trigger it; I liked the idea of having to get personal), so it's got some stronger penalties to match - the extended fatigue afterward, and the Frenzy-lite that might leave the Barbarian whacking at the walls for a little while at the end of a fight, frustrated at his inability to calm down (and unable to easily retreat, as well).

I considered adding a clause that the Barbarian must attempt at least one attack roll per turn as well (charging's fine, readying an attack is fine, simply double-moving is out), but this seemed like it was getting a little cluttered already.

Thoughts? Alternatives?

[Lord Denyuar]

Question, what if by you rolled poorly for second level hit points and had an average constitution, would you be berserk at all times?

[Cog]

Question, what if by you rolled poorly for second level hit points and had an average constitution, would you be berserk at all times?
Well, that'd still be at least 13 hp, so no. Extend that to third level or have a big enough Con penalty and yes, you would always be berserking.

[Big Fau]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Berserker Strength give Temp HP or a Con bonus? If so, it's very possible that using Berserker Strength as written can cause it to end itself prematurely, and ruin your combat abilities since it fatigues you.

[Cog]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Berserker Strength give Temp HP or a Con bonus? If so, it's very possible that using Berserker Strength as written can cause it to end itself prematurely, and ruin your combat abilities since it fatigues you.
Berserker Strength doesn't give a Constitution bonus, so no. :smallcool:

[Fouredged Sword]

There is a nitch use in Theroretical op that you can take a half black dragon warforged juggernaut / barbarian with the flaming and frost barbarian PRCs.

Get a ring of regeneration and you become immune to damage when you activate the berzerk Strength. All damage gets turned to non lethal and you are immune to that.

[Runestar]

Question, what if by you rolled poorly for second level hit points and had an average constitution, would you be berserk at all times?

There was in fact a build which involved a barbarian with so little hp that he would essentially have berserk on 24/7. Still sucked though, because well, he had so little hp. :smalltongue:

Think it was some necropolitan barb (no con) with grafts and some other abilities which permanently decreased your hp to just below that threshold.

What's the big deal about not being able to leave the rage anyways? If you are a berserker strength barb, you are likely a pure barb (since its hp threshold is based on barb levels, rather than hp total), not a spellcaster, so the rage won't really pose a problem. If anything, why would you say no to free stat boosts? :smallconfused:

[Taelas]

You suffer the same restrictions that a Barbarian with normal rage does; meaning you just don't have the patience to deal with most things.

[Cog]

Get a ring of regeneration and you become immune to damage when you activate the berzerk Strength. All damage gets turned to non lethal and you are immune to that.
Except that the Ring of regeneration doesn't actually grant regeneration, so you don't have nonlethal immunity after all.


What's the big deal about not being able to leave the rage anyways? If you are a berserker strength barb, you are likely a pure barb (since its hp threshold is based on barb levels, rather than hp total), not a spellcaster, so the rage won't really pose a problem. If anything, why would you say no to free stat boosts? :smallconfused:
Mundane classes need magic items bad enough already. If you rule out all the ones with command word activation...

[Fouredged Sword]

Then you just have to take two flaws and the trollblooded feat. Now you have true regeneration.

[Taelas]

Still take lethal damage from fire and acid, though.

[Fouredged Sword]

Thus the half black dragon and flaming barbarian. You are immnue to acid damage and immune to fire whenever you rage. Thus you take fire damage until you rage, then become immune to damage.

[Godskook]

Thus the half black dragon and flaming barbarian. You are immnue to acid damage and immune to fire whenever you rage. Thus you take fire damage until you rage, then become immune to damage.

Stack on this:
Frail flaw
Pre-racial 2 Con.

That means you're getting d12-4 HP per level, or an average of 2.5 HP per level. By about level 3, you're *ALWAYS* in rage, as well as being immune to hit-point damage.

[Fouredged Sword]

Continue warforged juggernaut and you also become immune to ability damage/drain, negative levels, and mind effecting things. It gets very hard to kill you.

[pechula85]

guys how do you get that normal damage goes to non lethal dmg???

[The Crash Man]

Regeneration does that. Its what makes trolls so annoying to kill, half-black or half-red dragon trolls even moreso.

[pechula85]

that is not correct! just now i finished reading troll blooded feat and the ring of regeneration and it does not say anywhere that you are getting non-lethal instead of lethal :S

[kardar233]

Berserker Strength doesn't give a Constitution bonus, so no. :smallcool:

However, you can add rider effects (like turning into a bear) that do increase your CON score, which resulted in Schrodinger's Bear Warrior: As soon as you hit the Berserker Strength threshold you gained bonus CON, putting you above it, but then the rage ends and you lose that CON, etc.

Works great with Demoralizing Rage. Somehow watching a guy turn schizophrenically back and forth between bear and human is ridiculously scary.

[Godskook]

that is not correct! just now i finished reading troll blooded feat and the ring of regeneration and it does not say anywhere that you are getting non-lethal instead of lethal :S

1.As mentioned before the necromancy, the ring legitimately doesn't work.

2.Troll-blooded(Drag 319, p56, pdf page 52?) actually does grant exactly what you say it doesn't, conversion to non-lethal. Crashman even explained how it does that.

[Spuddles]

that is not correct! just now i finished reading troll blooded feat and the ring of regeneration and it does not say anywhere that you are getting non-lethal instead of lethal :S

Ring of Regeneration doesn't give you regeneration; for that you need Trollblooded.

[pechula85]

i see it now
stupid troll blooded pre request is toughness :s

any better ideas on this lvl 6so it can become frenzyed berserker later???

warforged
barbarian 1 - lion totem
figheter 4
warforged juggernaunt 1

only 1 flaw allowed

adamantine body
power attack
improved bull rush
toughness
troll blooded
frost berserker
blazing berserker