Accused Power-gaming

[Silva Stormrage]

Okay now I seem to have a semi-large problem with my group, current DM mostly. It seems no matter what character I play in the current campaign it gets thought of as OP and broken and heavily optimized. Also the DM seems to nerf anything I use and never touch the other player's homebrew/ feats/ skills. In this campaign the DM basically approves pretty much all homebrew presented, except mine which is scrutinized incredibly and anything he doesn't like is nerfed like crazy (Which is completely fair as he is the DM and can do it if he wishes. I just hate how mine is the only one being scrutinized this carefully)

My first character for this campaign was a Warrior Shinigami (From the Bleach d20 Homebrew). With a posion type zanpakto (for those of you who don't want to read the 100 page homebrew here is the gist of it. Max HP with d12 HD. Some bonuses to AC. And a magical weapon that could be coated with poison that dealt 1d6 str damage on a failed save). He also had the original VOP because I liked the fluff.

Other Character is using his own homebrew: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191985: No changes to it from the DM.



In the first session at lvl 3 this character dealt only 1d2 str damage and was pretty much weaker than the other player in 99% of the situations but just by a bit.

Next session he dealt 1d6 strength damage with a slightly higher dc but pretty much the same character. First encounter I manage to reduce a creature to zero strength before we killed it through HP damage (It had 10 HP left) and was was a caster type monster with 10-12 strength). After that no creature ever fails a save against this character's poison again. Including the 27 poison attempts on 2 separate ogres who I learned after would have failed on a 5 or lower... After them we fought only undead and plant type creatures for the rest of the session (Afterwords the DM said that he was placing them there to counter my character's OP'ed poison). After the session I had to rebuild my char completely.

The DM then also allowed us to make a secondary "Cohort" character. I was going to play a Ebon Inititate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163297) and it was also nerfed.
-The campaign was using partial gestalt rules from the Tier System. This was removed for this char
-Nerfed an invocation from granting greater invis to regular invis
-Nerfed Mercantile background so once a month I can't buy things
-Nerfed the Imbue Item ability (We aren't using XP just level after X event). I was going to be allowed to craft items whose xp cost the same amount of XP I had based on my level divided by 200. (For example at level 20 I could craft 1050 xp worth of items.)


Sorry for the long post but it just frustrates me and I was wondering if the Playground thinks I am overreacting and I am powergaming or if the DM is just nerfing me for some reason.

Also for people who are going to suggest solve it OOC I will be attempting that, he is somewhat hard to contact when we are out of school for the summer.

[Metahuman1]

No, you are not power gaming. 1d6 STR damage and taking out a caster by stopping it with Str damage when it has a low Str Score.

Here's one thing you might try.

Tell the DM, "Look, since you think everything I do is OP, I want you to build a character that is on par with the rest of the party." Now, once you've done this, stipulate that it MUST NOT be less powerful then what everyone else has. Have the rest of the group go over it with you before you put into play to make sure he doesn't do any funny business.

Also, point out that the goal is to have fun, and him singling you out for nothing that even resembles a reason, let alone a good one, is making it not fun for you.

Lastly, if possible, see if you can start doing the work needed to find and get in with another group. Check at your local game shops and book stores and Comic shops. Because if he won't budge at all, and he is going too keep doing this too you, and only too you, you should stop playing with him. No gaming is better then bad gaming. But gaming with a group that won't pull this crap is better then both.

[wuwuwu]

I cannot believe your story. Looking at the other class... No way!
If your story IS true, I really... there are some inconsolable differences with you and your DM. I would uh, offer to DM a game for the group.
And make sure you don't single out the DM. Show him your fairness and impartiality and let him do stuff like...down a caster with strength damage (a very basic strategy...)

Really, I feel like he has a grudge against you for something you did?

[Silva Stormrage]

No, you are not power gaming. 1d6 STR damage and taking out a caster by stopping it with Str damage when it has a low Str Score.

Here's one thing you might try.

Tell the DM, "Look, since you think everything I do is OP, I want you to build a character that is on par with the rest of the party." Now, once you've done this, stipulate that it MUST NOT be less powerful then what everyone else has. Have the rest of the group go over it with you before you put into play to make sure he doesn't do any funny business.

Also, point out that the goal is to have fun, and him singling you out for nothing that even resembles a reason, let alone a good one, is making it not fun for you.

Lastly, if possible, see if you can start doing the work needed to find and get in with another group. Check at your local game shops and book stores and Comic shops. Because if he won't budge at all, and he is going too keep doing this too you, and only too you, you should stop playing with him. No gaming is better then bad gaming. But gaming with a group that won't pull this crap is better then both.

Thank you for the response. I will suggest the idea that he creates my char at the same power level.

Also something that I forgot to mention in the OP is that I had kept stats of the first 3 sessions of all the characters (I foresaw this happening).

Damage Taken:
Me: 117
Other Player: 52

Attacks taken:
Me: 26
Other Player: 12

Damage Dealt:
Me: 251
Other Player: 272

Ability Damage Dealt:
Me: 18 Str
Other Player: 0

I have shown the DM these stats but still haven't got much.

I would also not like to leave this party since they are still my friends outside the game and I feel that leaving the group over an issue with one player would hurt my relationship with the other 2.



I cannot believe your story. Looking at the other class... No way!
If your story IS true, I really... there are some inconsolable differences with you and your DM. I would uh, offer to DM a game for the group.
And make sure you don't single out the DM. Show him your fairness and impartiality and let him do stuff like...down a caster with strength damage (a very basic strategy...)

Really, I feel like he has a grudge against you for something you did?

There is a good chance that he is holding something against me for the last campaign I ran. His character died 3 times in a 8-20 campaign.
First Death: Warblade ran out by himself against 20 allips at level 8. Swarmed and he fell off a wall.
Second: Binder died to a TPK to a boss they could have beaten.
Third: Another player kept a baleful polymorphed enemy psion with him (The psion didn't fail the second will save so could cast) and it ended up killing his homebrew Truenamer.

Also it should be noted that every one of his character was the strongest in the party. Except for his latest spell thief which is still really strong.

[Taelas]

That guy does not act like a friend.

[Kilbourne]

I like Metahuman1's idea; ask him to build a character for you, that is on par with the power of the rest of the group.


Another idea, play the same class and character as the other player, just to see what happens :smallwink:

[Silva Stormrage]

I like Metahuman1's idea; ask him to build a character for you, that is on par with the power of the rest of the group.


Another idea, play the same class and character as the other player, just to see what happens :smallwink:

I actually got him to approve one OP'ed homebrew he played in my previous campaign (See previous post). And was thinking of playing it but I really don't want to slaughter everything. Also if I played the other player's class he would accuse me of "optimizing" it. (Choosing good spells is heavy optimization for him).

[prufock]

Another idea, play the same class and character as the other player, just to see what happens :smallwink:

Except give the class and all its features different labels, with exactly the same effects.

[Silva Stormrage]

Except give the class and all it's features different labels, with exactly the same effects.

Mine would be nerfed :smalltongue:.

[Metahuman1]

To modify my other idea, maybe instead of going and looking for a whole new group, point out too the other two, while showing your stats and what have you, that no your not power gaming, but the current DM is just bent on getting back at you for him dieing in the last game you ran. So, there for, you've found a DM and another one or two players looking to get a game going, and you'd like to invite them too it.

That way, you can drop out of the current game, claim a temporary scheduling issue, maybe even miss the first couple of sessions of the next person who DM's next game to make it convincing, and still get to do some gaming with the other two. Do you believe that would work?

Mind you this assumes he won't just work it out or give it up after you've talked to him, and that he still wants to play games to jack you around as much as possible after he makes you a character that everyone approves of or he just refuses to make the character using the "No, that's you as a players job/I'm to busy being the DM thank you!" excuse.

I'm funny in that in real life situations where in I think there's a chance of failure, I like to have at least one if not more then that in the way of contingency plans.

[prufock]

Mine would be nerfed :smalltongue:.

That's kind of the point. It's like a police sting. If your characters are identical except for the names of the abilities, and he alters yours but not the other player's, you know something more is going on besides "yours is overpowered."

This is, of course, presuming just talking to the guy doesn't work.

If you want to be a jerk about it, play a commoner and be absolutely useless. Run away from challenges. Hide. Bargain with the baddies. Make other player do all the work.

[Jornophelanthas]

Damage Taken:
Me: 117
Other Player: 52

Attacks taken:
Me: 26
Other Player: 12

Damage Dealt:
Me: 251
Other Player: 272

Ability Damage Dealt:
Me: 18 Str
Other Player: 0

I have shown the DM these stats but still haven't got much.

These statistics are, unfortunately, useless. The main reason for this is that different characters use different tactics in combat.

For example, if one character is a melee fighter who tends to charge at groups of enemies and another is a ranged attacker who stays out of harm's way, the former will take more attacks and more damage than the latter, even though they may dish out about the same amount of damage. Even two similar melee characters might not be comparable, because one player might prefer fighting with his back to a wall, while another might prefer to fight in open spaces.

Therefore, even if you believe these numbers show a DM bias, there are just too many factors involved to use them as evidence for such a claim.

[Silva Stormrage]

These statistics are, unfortunately, useless. The main reason for this is that different characters use different tactics in combat.

For example, if one character is a melee fighter who tends to charge at groups of enemies and another is a ranged attacker who stays out of harm's way, the former will take more attacks and more damage than the latter, even though they may dish out about the same amount of damage. Even two similar melee characters might not be comparable, because one player might prefer fighting with his back to a wall, while another might prefer to fight in open spaces.

Therefore, even if you believe these numbers show a DM bias, there are just too many factors involved to use them as evidence for such a claim.

What would your opinion be if for example both were melee chars? I fully understand that these stats don't indicate DM bias. The only one that is relatively significant at all is the damage one because both chars somewhat focused on dealing damage.

[Flame of Anor]

That guy does not act like a friend.

Ding ding! Give Szar_Lakol a cookie.

[Jornophelanthas]

What would your opinion be if for example both were melee chars? I fully understand that these stats don't indicate DM bias. The only one that is relatively significant at all is the damage one because both chars somewhat focused on dealing damage.

Actually, I answered that one in my post. If both characters were melee fighters, then differences in their respective players' play styles may still account for vast difference in the data you collect. A reckless player will accumulate a lot more damage than a careful one. A player whose character regularly taunts the enemy might get attacked more often than the character standing right beside that.

And to add to this, the DM is perfectly justified to have certain enemies target the most imposing or dangerous-looking PC more than the others ("That must be their champion. If we kill him quickly, the rest will be pushovers.") However, other enemies may target the least imposing, wimpiest-looking PC above all others. ("That one's an easy kill.")

Of course, some enemies are unintelligent, and will just attack the first target that presents itself. (Such as the reckless oaf who stumbles into a room full of zombies without looking if it's safe.)

However, what can be a sign of DM bias is if a monster randomly attacks one of the PCs, and it happens to be you every time. (e.g. DM: "You walk through the swamp for hours. Suddenly [pretends to rolls a die] Silva is bitten in the leg by a dire alligator AGAIN. [rolls attack] Ouch! [rolls damage] Take another 18 damage. Roll initiative.")

[Silva Stormrage]

To modify my other idea, maybe instead of going and looking for a whole new group, point out too the other two, while showing your stats and what have you, that no your not power gaming, but the current DM is just bent on getting back at you for him dieing in the last game you ran. So, there for, you've found a DM and another one or two players looking to get a game going, and you'd like to invite them too it.

That way, you can drop out of the current game, claim a temporary scheduling issue, maybe even miss the first couple of sessions of the next person who DM's next game to make it convincing, and still get to do some gaming with the other two. Do you believe that would work?

Mind you this assumes he won't just work it out or give it up after you've talked to him, and that he still wants to play games to jack you around as much as possible after he makes you a character that everyone approves of or he just refuses to make the character using the "No, that's you as a players job/I'm to busy being the DM thank you!" excuse.

I'm funny in that in real life situations where in I think there's a chance of failure, I like to have at least one if not more then that in the way of contingency plans.

Ya right now I am talking to the DM over gmailChat and will attempt to talk this out.

I don't see how we would be able to subtly ditch his campaign though. Oh and right he also posts on GiantITP so he will more than likely read this. (Tommy if you want you can post). And also in the group I am the newest player so getting people to go along with it might be difficult.

Contingency plans are important, right now if he rejects any sort of compromise or building the char for me then I will just try so sort of useless silly build and try to entertain myself until the next campaign.

[Stix]

is building a primarily non direct combat character an option. this doesn't mean useless in combat. build a buff bard or a heal monkey. that way he doesn't feel as much like you're trying to mess with his game if all you do is support. and the rp on those kinds of characters can be brilliantly fun.

[Pyro_Azer]

Ya right now I am talking to the DM over gmailChat and will attempt to talk this out.

I don't see how we would be able to subtly ditch his campaign though. Oh and right he also posts on GiantITP so he will more than likely read this. (Tommy if you want you can post). And also in the group I am the newest player so getting people to go along with it might be difficult.

Contingency plans are important, right now if he rejects any sort of compromise or building the char for me then I will just try so sort of useless silly build and try to entertain myself until the next campaign.

It would probably be a good idea if he does post. That way we see both sides and get to be all objective and junk.

[The Random NPC]

You could try taking something weak, like a commoner, and doing you best to optimize it to the level of the party. If the DM nerfs it, you can point out that you are playing a COMMONER, no it isn't overpowered. Or play a Lightning Warrior, they don't even get a familiar.

[Hazzardevil]

I think that this DM is simply picking on you because he thinks that anything the other players do, you can do better and he thinks he's balancing it out. I think that really you need to find a better answer than.

He's power gaming.