Glass Cannon

[ExemplarofAvg]

I was wondering the other day if there exits such a thing in DnD, I thought wizard for a bit, but they can also have great defensive abilities. To clarify, just in case anyone is not familiar with the terminology. A Glass Cannon is someone or something that has massive damage potentiel, but upon receiving minimal damage pretty much wrecks it.

[Shadowknight12]

Anything from Tier 4 down after a certain level.

More typically, the "rogue" classes. Rogue, scout, ninja, spellthief. PrCs that are "roguish."

[Zeikstraal]

Rogues are considdered as Glass Canons I thought

[Saintheart]

"Glass Cannon" is a nickname used for a character who has one phenomenally powerful offensive ability but which is critically vulnerable if that attack fails or is otherwise thwarted.

Many forms of the ubercharger are technically this. If the ubercharger gets the chance to charge, he'll reliably do close to or over 100 damage on one attack ... but he usually pays for that by lowering his AC to such a point he can feasibly be hit by a small child with a thrown rock. The key to the glass cannon is that the cannon is always crossing his fingers that his first attack kills the target, because if it doesn't, the inevitable counterattack is usually going to hit.

Wizards are not glass cannons. They are more like strategic bombers: by the time they've hit you with 5,000 pounds of TNT, they are probably six miles away.

[Tvtyrant]

Shadowcasters tend to nova among casters, but for the most part casters are too useful to be glasscannons.

[ExemplarofAvg]

"Glass Cannon" is a nickname used for a character who has one phenomenally powerful offensive ability but which is critically vulnerable if that attack fails or is otherwise thwarted. The key to the glass cannon is that the cannon is always crossing his fingers that his first attack kills the target, because if it doesn't, the inevitable counterattack is usually going to hit.

That's a much better description than I had, thank you.

[deuxhero]

AC is useless for defense anyways, just give your uber charger a lesser cloak of displacement.

[Eldariel]

AC is useless for defense anyways, just give your uber charger a lesser cloak of displacement.

That's not really the whole story. The thing about AC is:
- It's an all-or-nothing investment. It's very weak to invest partially in AC. If your AC isn't high enough to help against level appropriate encounters, you might as well not have invested in it; it'll only help you against armies of weaklings you'd walk over anyways.
- It's expensive to itemize. The first ~20 points are rather affordable but since you need to itemize 4 different magic item sources of AC and all their prices grow exponentially with every point, it quickly grows to be a massive portion of your budget.
- One of the most efficient means of martial offense, Shock Trooper, negates your AC when you enter the fray anyways. Likewise, many classes have Rage-type abilities which pay AC for gains (substantial gains at that). If you're paying AC somewhere, the amount you'd need to keep it relevant tends to grow too high to be worth your while.

Caster-support (Magic Vestment, Barkskin, Protection from X/Shield of Faith/Ectoplasmic Armor/whatever) makes AC more worthwhile since you can bypass the magical components of the itemization entirely saving you upwards to ~150k gp. You need +1s for your armor and some such so slightly less, perhaps, but getting Armor + Shield Enhancements, Natural Armor & Deflection for free goes a long way.

Optimally you layer your defenses; get miss chances and AC and some immediate actions to negate attacks. Then you have a massive HP pool. Lesser Cloak of Displacement is sorta expensive, too. Though out of Core-options, the only more efficient one is Ring of Blinking and it's got its issues so sometimes you gotta make do.

[Tokiko Mima]

My favorite glass cannon was a pixie hellfire warlock in a campaign where the DM outlawed Naberius and Strongheart Vest. I'd use the Rod of Bodily Restoration between combats, but during combats I got rather vulnerable as the Constitution damage slowly added up. Though to be honest, I did have a very tank-like AC, total concealment, and an immediate action hellfire shield so it wasn't exactly very glassy of a cannon.

[KingofMadCows]

Warmage, basically a sorcerer that specializes in damaging spells.

[Divide by Zero]

Warmage, basically a sorcerer that specializes in damaging spells.

Obligatory: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869150/Warmages_Blow_Goats_For_Pocket_Change;_OR,_Why_You _Should_Play_A_Sorcerer_Instead

[Thurbane]

On the topic of AC: I think a lot of people tend to really undervalue AC. Sure, it's basically undeniable that it becomes less relevant at higher levels, especially once you get access to "always on" concealment and other such defenses.

However, if you ever come across a decent damage dealing opponent with some way around your other defenses (Pierce Magic Concealment, True Seeing effect etc.), and he has iteratives, you're going to be thankful for any bonus to AC you can scrounge. These kind of opponents aren't as uncommon as you might think, and if you pimp every other aspect of your defenses while chucking AC squarely out the window, you may just discover you have one of those DMs that throws in the occasional encounter deigned to exploit your "one weakness".

I'm not saying that every character needs to spend a significant chunk of their resources on AC, just that if you do treat it as completely unnecessary, there are times when it may well come back to bite you. Hard.

[KingofMadCows]

Obligatory: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869150/Warmages_Blow_Goats_For_Pocket_Change;_OR,_Why_You _Should_Play_A_Sorcerer_Instead

I never said that warmages are good. They just fit the description of a glass cannon.

Although, they would be pretty good in a CRPG like Icewind Dale or Neverwinter Nights where combat is 90% of the game.

[Tr011]

Some rangers are glass canons. Arcane Archers are glass canons. There are imo many glass canons in DnD. A friend of mine plays a Wilder-Glass Canon and it's not Tier 4 (more like Tier 2-3).

[Killer Angel]

That's not really the whole story. The thing about AC is:
- It's an all-or-nothing investment. It's very weak to invest partially in AC. If your AC isn't high enough to help against level appropriate encounters, you might as well not have invested in it; it'll only help you against armies of weaklings you'd walk over anyways.


A partial investment can be worthless for the first attack at full BAB, but can be useful to survive a full routine.

[Saintheart]

Some rangers are glass canons. Arcane Archers are glass canons. There are imo many glass canons in DnD. A friend of mine plays a Wilder-Glass Canon and it's not Tier 4 (more like Tier 2-3).

Cannons, not canons

[bad joke]The Arcane Archer is made of glass, but is also WOTC canon.[/bad joke]

[Eldariel]

A partial investment can be worthless for the first attack at full BAB, but can be useful to survive a full routine.

Sometimes. Sometimes not. Many monsters don't have iteratives; natural attacks are at full, -2 or -5 - generally -2 for creatures where it counts. Many warriors have high enough attack bonuses to still hit you with the first iterative or so at 95%. Many warriors have numerous bonus attacks at full BAB; it's hardly optimal if e.g. Whirling Frenzy Barbarian gets 3 attacks at 95% chance of hitting you.

Partial AC building is quite inefficient, in either case. It doesn't protect you from the biggest threats; while it does dissuade the use of Power Attack, which is convenient, it is an expensive way of doing so. My suggestion: If you build AC, go all the way.

[Eloel]

Some rangers are glass canons. Arcane Archers are glass canons. There are imo many glass canons in DnD. A friend of mine plays a Wilder-Glass Canon and it's not Tier 4 (more like Tier 2-3).

I'll have to second the notion of psionic glass cannons. Psions & Wilders are great at blasting away (or going nova, if that's your thing), and Wilders, especially, are quite fragile. (Psions get more powers - they can afford getting some defensive ones)

[Killer Angel]

Partial AC building is quite inefficient, in either case. It doesn't protect you from the biggest threats; while it does dissuade the use of Power Attack, which is convenient, it is an expensive way of doing so. My suggestion: If you build AC, go all the way.

Oh, yes. At best, it's only moderately useful, so it's a poor choice.
And either way, it's better to go for miss chances... but I'm sure we all agree on this. :smallwink:

[Amphetryon]

Duskblades can often be used as Glass Cannons, able to pump relatively obscene damage output into their arcane channeling ability but hoping not to receive a reciprocal blow.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Duskblades can often be used as Glass Cannons, able to pump relatively obscene damage output into their arcane channeling ability but hoping not to receive a reciprocal blow.

All duskblades I've seen tend to go Nova and then there's no need, but I've seen one take some hits.

[myancey]

And see, I thought we were talking about actual, gnomish-designed glass cannons...

[HalfDragonCube]

And see, I thought we were talking about actual, gnomish-designed glass cannons...

Gnome-tech cannons: something explodes nicely, although 'something' is anything within the radius of one mile.