The Iron Kingdoms Gun Mage needs substance?

[IthroZada]

The Gun Mage seems a fun class, irregardless of anything else, and I would play it as is. However, it seems to have a severe lack of class features. It's sort of understandable when you are a Wizard and have ninth level casting, but the Gun Mage only goes to six. Compared to the Duskblade or Magus, it seems even more disappointing, and I don't feel that it being ranged makes up for that. Now, I know its lack of class features is actually a bit deceptive, because half of the class is the Magelock pistol that comes along with it, but even then the class seems awfully front loaded with practically no capstone ability.

So, basically, I would love to play a Gun Mage fit for a Pathfinder game, and I have to wonder if it should be fixed, or if it's fine as is. The obvious change would be that it's hit points would go from d6 to d8 due to its base attack bonus, a la Pathfinder.

As for its lack of class features, it seems like a significantly easy fix would be to give it the features of the Arcane Archer, at the same rate, starting at level 10. Whether that's particularly balanced, I would have no idea.

So what tier do you consider the Gun Mage before any so called fixes, and after essentially gestalting it with an Arcane Archer?

[sonofzeal]

Arcane Archer wouldn't add all that much to it. Imbue Arrow is their only ability that's considered particularly important. I'm AFB and I can't remember if Gun Mage gets something equivalent, but if not then you might consider changing how that works or removing it entirely.

Soulbow might also be worth a look.

[IthroZada]

Arcane Archer wouldn't add all that much to it. Imbue Arrow is their only ability that's considered particularly important. I'm AFB and I can't remember if Gun Mage gets something equivalent, but if not then you might consider changing how that works or removing it entirely.

Soulbow might also be worth a look.

Gun Mages can basically imbue their bullets with ranged touch spells, and later touch spells, assuming they have a Magelock pistol. The Arcane Archer seemed an almost logical progression.

Looking at Soulbow, while I like the class in general, it doesn't quite fit mechanically or thematically. It's signature ability, to make ammunition out of psychic energy, kind of goes counter to the Gun Mage ability 'Cast Rune Bullet', where they literally forge ammunition that can be stored with spell energy (not the actual spell) for extra damage and enhancement bonuses.

Of course, that's nothing that can't be fixed by my putting some actual thought and effort into an ability to mesh the two, or simply replacing the mind aspect.

[sonofzeal]

The reason I suggested Soulbow is {a} the list of bonus feats, {b} the wis-to-damage, and {c} the automatic acquisition of enhancements to the weapon (again, with a particular narrowed list provided that may prove useful for you). The making-ammo-out-of-nothing is almost incidental by comparison.

[IthroZada]

The reason I suggested Soulbow is {a} the list of bonus feats, {b} the wis-to-damage, and {c} the automatic acquisition of enhancements to the weapon (again, with a particular narrowed list provided that may prove useful for you). The making-ammo-out-of-nothing is almost incidental by comparison.

I do admit, being able to Bane your ammo, and more, whenever you like is rather wonderful, and that is 5 feats for ten levels, which is fantastic.

[MeeposFire]

The reason I suggested Soulbow is {a} the list of bonus feats, {b} the wis-to-damage, and {c} the automatic acquisition of enhancements to the weapon (again, with a particular narrowed list provided that may prove useful for you). The making-ammo-out-of-nothing is almost incidental by comparison.

Don't forget the stealthy boost to your BAB from the soulbows enhancement bonus feature. A full 10 level soulbow actually grants 9 points of BAB.

[Leon]

Pathfinder Gun Mage Conversion (http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?58030-Pathfinder-Conversion-The-Gun-Mage
)

[IthroZada]

Pathfinder Gun Mage Conversion (http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?58030-Pathfinder-Conversion-The-Gun-Mage
)

Well, that is just awesome, thank you very much.

[Caliphbubba]

I can't look at the conversion that was posted at the moment, but one thing we did in our group for the Gun Mage was to give him Armored Casting a la a Bard. It's not a huge boost, but I it seemed to fit.

I don't know if this was a problem particular to our group, but the cost of actually using a Gun was always prohibative and underwhelming. One thing I suggested was making it easier/cheaper for the Gun Mage to actually use a gun buy giving them a Crafting Pool to use on making bullets and their Rune Bullet goodness.

Good Luck. I loved the Iron Kingdoms, but thought a lot of the implimentation was terrible.


P.S.
I've just been made aware of a Warmachine video game that is coming out soon, might want to check it out if IK is your bag.

[IthroZada]

I can't look at the conversion that was posted at the moment, but one thing we did in our group for the Gun Mage was to give him Armored Casting a la a Bard. It's not a huge boost, but I it seemed to fit.

I don't know if this was a problem particular to our group, but the cost of actually using a Gun was always prohibative and underwhelming. One thing I suggested was making it easier/cheaper for the Gun Mage to actually use a gun buy giving them a Crafting Pool to use on making bullets and their Rune Bullet goodness.

Good Luck. I loved the Iron Kingdoms, but thought a lot of the implimentation was terrible.


P.S.
I've just been made aware of a Warmachine video game that is coming out soon, might want to check it out if IK is your bag.

Armored casting isn't bad, granted the flavor seems to allow for a lack of it, while the military ones would certainly want it. Maybe that could be an archetype.

And you are correct about the cost of guns in both resources and actions, I'm hoping the pathfinder firearm rules change that a lot, before I go making my own.

Thank you for pointing me to the videogame, hopefully it's an RPG.