Beguiler bloodlines feat choice

[Darth_Versity]

So my lesser tiefling beguiler/mindbender will probably reach lvl 12 next game. As my feat I decided to take a bloodlines from dragon compendium, but I'm not sure which one. I have 3 I really like, Fiendish, Necromatic, and Penumbra.

I'm really stuck on which one though. All three provide great spells! Any advice would be appreciated.

[weckar]

Well, what do you already have in your repertoire? Any synergy possible?

[Kefkafreak]

The one with the less redundancies. I don't really know what spells they add, but if one of them adds teleportation that's the one I would take.

[Darth_Versity]

Oh yeah, sorry. Current feats are Spellcasting prodigy (3.0 version), darkstalker, mindsight, and improved initiative.

Of the three bloodlines Fiendish and Penumbra make the most thematic sense. I'm a tiefling so Fiendish is a given, but I've had on a collar of umbral metamorphosis to get the the dark template and penumbra works really well with that

Fiendish will provide, Protection from good, darkness, sepia snake sigil, bestow curse, nightmare, mislead, insanity, maze and imprisonment.

Penumbra provides darkness, evards black tentacles, shadow evocation, plane shift, and greater shadow evocation

Fiendish offers more spells, but the shadow evocations are so good that it's a difficult choice

[Kefkafreak]

If you take Shadowcraft Mage levels you won't need the shadow spells.

[Darth_Versity]

If you take Shadowcraft Mage levels you won't need the shadow spells.

But I'm a tiefling, not a gnome.

[Kefkafreak]

Yeah, now I feel stupid :smallsigh:

then I would definitely take the Shadow Spells.

[Darrin]

Of the three bloodlines Fiendish and Penumbra make the most thematic sense. I'm a tiefling so Fiendish is a given, but I've had on a collar of umbral metamorphosis to get the the dark template and penumbra works really well with that


A while back I rated the Bloodline feats in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5076244&postcount=30).

Hmm... looking back on it now, I think I was a bit too harsh with Penumbra. Shadow evocation and greater shadow evocation gives you access to a huge number of really great spells, not just blasty-stuff but things like sending, contingency, and the various wall/force spells. On a sorcerer/beguiler chassis with a very limited spell selection (on top of Evard's hentai collection), that's B+ if not a solid A.

Necromantic is still quite good. You can also follow that one up with Kin Mastery and get Turn Undead without losing any caster levels.

Fiendish... I'm still not all that fond of. Everything 6th level and up is very good, but everything before that is blech.

[Darth_Versity]

Fiendish... I'm still not all that fond of. Everything 6th level and up is very good, but everything before that is blech.

Well my only difficuilty in the descision was that with Fiendish I got 9 spells and Penumbra only 5. but the Penumbra ones were so much more useful than the Fiendish ones.

Necrotic is good and offers 8 spells but theres no real link between my character and the undead to warrant that in game.

I think i'll take penumbra, the shadow evocations and planeshift are excellent choices and black hentai... sorry, tentacles is amazing.

[faceroll]

If you take Shadowcraft Mage levels you won't need the shadow spells.

Then he would have to stop being a beguiler. Also, wrong race.


Well my only difficuilty in the descision was that with Fiendish I got 9 spells and Penumbra only 5. but the Penumbra ones were so much more useful than the Fiendish ones.

Necrotic is good and offers 8 spells but theres no real link between my character and the undead to warrant that in game.

I think i'll take penumbra, the shadow evocations and planeshift are excellent choices and black hentai... sorry, tentacles is amazing.

Good choice.
Fiendish has a bit of overlap with what you're already doing.

[sreservoir]

Then he would have to stop being a beguiler. Also, wrong race.

racial issues aside, beguilers can qualify for scm just fine ??

I would never play a beguiler scm because then I wouldn't be able to be a beguiler beguiler, but

[Cog]

racial issues aside, beguilers can qualify for scm just fine ??
Quite easily. It's worth noting that the class's Adaptation section encourages modifying the race restriction, too.

[faceroll]

racial issues aside, beguilers can qualify for scm just fine ??

I would never play a beguiler scm because then I wouldn't be able to be a beguiler beguiler, but

You give up the skill points and class skills. Not worth it, imo.

[Thurbane]

When chosing your bloodline feat, also be aware that they each make you give up access to a certain type of spells - just be careful whichever one you take doesn't knock out a chunk of your Beguiler spells...

[Big Fau]

You give up the skill points and class skills. Not worth it, imo.

Shadow Miracles aren't worth a few skills?


Cheese aside, a Beguiler/SCM would have quite a bit of flexibility on his side, what with the free Conjuration/Evocation spells he could cast.

[faceroll]

Shadow Miracles aren't worth a few skills?

Not legit. Just because it's on your list doesn't mean it's on everyone's list. Sorry bro.


Cheese aside, a Beguiler/SCM would have quite a bit of flexibility on his side, what with the free Conjuration/Evocation spells he could cast.

And if you want real ultimate flexibility, you go wizard5/prestige classes 15 and pick up uncanny forethought. But the reason you're playing a beguiler is for an elegant, well-designed T3 caster-rogue hybrid. It's one of the very few base classes that multiclassing out of actually makes it worse at its party role.

[Big Fau]

It's one of the very few base classes that multiclassing out of actually makes it worse at its party role.

I beg to differ. There are several good PrCs that it can multiclass into and still retain the Skill Monkey/Secondary Caster role, such as Unseen Seer (with a little effort). The later class features are not that impressive, and serve very little purpose to aid the party. Or you can deviate from that role via Gish/Buffer builds (which are admittedly harder to do with a Beguiler).


Almost every class in the game can potentially benefit from multiclassing after a certain point. For the Beguiler, it's around the time they get 3rd level spells. You just need to find the right PrC for what your party needs most.

[faceroll]

I beg to differ. There are several good PrCs that it can multiclass into and still retain the Skill Monkey/Secondary Caster role, such as Unseen Seer (with a little effort). The later class features are not that impressive, and serve very little purpose to aid the party. Or you can deviate from that role via Gish/Buffer builds (which are admittedly harder to do with a Beguiler).


Almost every class in the game can potentially benefit from multiclassing after a certain point. For the Beguiler, it's around the time they get 3rd level spells. You just need to find the right PrC for what your party needs most.

I'm still not seeing it. Sure, you can go primary caster with shadow cheese, but beguiler is somewhat of a poor chassis to do it on, imo. Beguiler also gets virtually nothing out of Unseen Seer. A beguiler's schtick isn't damage; it's subterfuge. Those tasty, tasty skills are so hard to pass up, too, since the beguiler can get a lot of mileage out of them; above and beyond his daily allotment of spells.

Not saying you can't do it, and it won't work, but why use Beguiler as the chassis? Presumably you're playing beguiler for its beguilerness, not buffing or backstabbing.

[Darth_Versity]

I'm still not seeing it. Sure, you can go primary caster with shadow cheese, but beguiler is somewhat of a poor chassis to do it on, imo. Beguiler also gets virtually nothing out of Unseen Seer. A beguiler's schtick isn't damage; it's subterfuge. Those tasty, tasty skills are so hard to pass up, too, since the beguiler can get a lot of mileage out of them; above and beyond his daily allotment of spells.

Not saying you can't do it, and it won't work, but why use Beguiler as the chassis? Presumably you're playing beguiler for its beguilerness, not buffing or backstabbing.

I actually disagree. I know beguiler isn't the best chassis for unseen seer, but it's pretty damn good, but if your a gnome beguiler who doesn't go into shadowcraft mage I'd say you are actually taking the less optimal route. The class features are superior to strait beguiler so the only downside is the lost skills.

Unseen seer works better with rogue 1/ wizard 4 but if you want more skills or spontaneous casting then beguiler is probably the best choice.

[faceroll]

If I want spontaneous casting on my wizards, I pick up uncanny forethought. Sets me back two feats, but wizards are pretty feat lite.