Kaeso
2011-06-23, 07:29 AM
Hey there playground,
While it is said that the cleric spell list is only marginally worse than the wizards, most cleric builds revolve around the same DMM persist divine power concept, as if that's the only trick the cleric can do :smallannoyed:.
That's why I thought it might be time to explore the other extreme: a cloistered cleric that uses his spells for battlefield control and perhaps a little blasting, basically a divine wizard. We all know wizards have a 'silver bullet' spell at every level, some playgrounders could name all of them by heart. Who hasn't heard about the overpoweredness that is grease, or how glitterdust and web can basically finish an encounter before it has started. Let's not even talk about what colour spray and sleep can do at lower levels.
The point of this thread is to divine what the clerical 'silver bullets' are. What are the great battlefield control spells the cleric has in his arsenal, what are the best damaging spells, what feats are best to enhance these spells? Domain spells are also allowed for this, but I'd prefer it if it would refer to the standard cleric spells too.
EDIT: For the sake of convenience I'll list every 'silver bullet' posted here by level, with a little description of its effects if you'd be so kind to state them as well.
Level 1:
Obscuring mist: Same reason it's good for wizards
Ice slick (Frostburn)
Ice Slick from Frostburn is essentially the Divine version of Grease, except that it covers twice the area...so it's actually Grease +1.
Command: Give a single enemy a simple task, which includes dropping his weapon or dropping prone. Can greatly reduce the threat of a single enemy. Targets the will save (the weak save for fighter types) but is SR: yes
Spiritual weapon: Allows you to attack an enemy from a range with a spectral sword, which can force AoO and thus lock an enemy in place. It requires a move action to control, but with the skill trick swift concentration from complete scoundrel that isn't a problem.
Level 2:
Darkness: Same reason it's good for wizards
Silence: Can partially shut down enemy casters for an entire combat. Targets their strong save (will) though, and it's also SR: yes.
Silence doesn't allow a save unless it's cast on a living target. Cast it on a rock and throw the rock at the enemy caster. By the same token, cast Deeper Darknesson a Dagger. When the dagger is sheathed, the spell is blocked, as the magical darkness radiates just like the Light spell. Simply draw the dagger, and gain 20% concealment, denying enemy rogues sneak attack.
Silence is even better when you cast it on one of your pointy stick wielders and have him go sit on top of the enemy caster, they can just move away from the rock.
Not if you cast Animate Objects on your rock first. Try Permanency and let your pet rock go! :smallwink:
Hold Person: Paralysis makes an enemy helpless, which allows your BSF to coup de grace it, and you get it a spell level sooner than wizards :smallwink:. Sadly it only works on humanoids and you don't get the mass version later.
Animal attribute line (like bull's strength etc.): It's a decent low level buff line, but it's an enhancement bonus so it doesn't scale too well.
Level 3:
Stone shape
Stone shape make me happy, very happy indeed. Getting creative can outright end some encounters.
Dispel Magic: Spell-b-gone
Level 4:
Divination: Gives you a small glimpse of the future
Level 5:
Wall of Stone: Nothing says "battlefield control" like splitting the enemy up with a huge wall. Divide and conquer!
Greater command: Like command, but with multiple subjects. You can literally disarm an entire group of enemies with this. It also lasts multiple rounds but is SR: Yes and forces a will save each round.
Level 6:
Level 7:
Level 8:
Level 9:
Miracle: It's like the wizards Wish, but better!
Special mentions:
Summon monster line
Summon monster for the win here. Get something that grapples or trips. That's battlefield control, the blast that keeps on blasting, a buff if it gets into flanking position, and even kinda like preemptive healing if the enemy chooses to attack them instead of your party.
DMM Heighten
For kicks take a cleric with the Domination and Tyranny domains, pick up GSF:Enchantment and DMM:Heighten Spell. Normally picking the Heighten feat is a total waste, but DMM can redeem it.
While it is said that the cleric spell list is only marginally worse than the wizards, most cleric builds revolve around the same DMM persist divine power concept, as if that's the only trick the cleric can do :smallannoyed:.
That's why I thought it might be time to explore the other extreme: a cloistered cleric that uses his spells for battlefield control and perhaps a little blasting, basically a divine wizard. We all know wizards have a 'silver bullet' spell at every level, some playgrounders could name all of them by heart. Who hasn't heard about the overpoweredness that is grease, or how glitterdust and web can basically finish an encounter before it has started. Let's not even talk about what colour spray and sleep can do at lower levels.
The point of this thread is to divine what the clerical 'silver bullets' are. What are the great battlefield control spells the cleric has in his arsenal, what are the best damaging spells, what feats are best to enhance these spells? Domain spells are also allowed for this, but I'd prefer it if it would refer to the standard cleric spells too.
EDIT: For the sake of convenience I'll list every 'silver bullet' posted here by level, with a little description of its effects if you'd be so kind to state them as well.
Level 1:
Obscuring mist: Same reason it's good for wizards
Ice slick (Frostburn)
Ice Slick from Frostburn is essentially the Divine version of Grease, except that it covers twice the area...so it's actually Grease +1.
Command: Give a single enemy a simple task, which includes dropping his weapon or dropping prone. Can greatly reduce the threat of a single enemy. Targets the will save (the weak save for fighter types) but is SR: yes
Spiritual weapon: Allows you to attack an enemy from a range with a spectral sword, which can force AoO and thus lock an enemy in place. It requires a move action to control, but with the skill trick swift concentration from complete scoundrel that isn't a problem.
Level 2:
Darkness: Same reason it's good for wizards
Silence: Can partially shut down enemy casters for an entire combat. Targets their strong save (will) though, and it's also SR: yes.
Silence doesn't allow a save unless it's cast on a living target. Cast it on a rock and throw the rock at the enemy caster. By the same token, cast Deeper Darknesson a Dagger. When the dagger is sheathed, the spell is blocked, as the magical darkness radiates just like the Light spell. Simply draw the dagger, and gain 20% concealment, denying enemy rogues sneak attack.
Silence is even better when you cast it on one of your pointy stick wielders and have him go sit on top of the enemy caster, they can just move away from the rock.
Not if you cast Animate Objects on your rock first. Try Permanency and let your pet rock go! :smallwink:
Hold Person: Paralysis makes an enemy helpless, which allows your BSF to coup de grace it, and you get it a spell level sooner than wizards :smallwink:. Sadly it only works on humanoids and you don't get the mass version later.
Animal attribute line (like bull's strength etc.): It's a decent low level buff line, but it's an enhancement bonus so it doesn't scale too well.
Level 3:
Stone shape
Stone shape make me happy, very happy indeed. Getting creative can outright end some encounters.
Dispel Magic: Spell-b-gone
Level 4:
Divination: Gives you a small glimpse of the future
Level 5:
Wall of Stone: Nothing says "battlefield control" like splitting the enemy up with a huge wall. Divide and conquer!
Greater command: Like command, but with multiple subjects. You can literally disarm an entire group of enemies with this. It also lasts multiple rounds but is SR: Yes and forces a will save each round.
Level 6:
Level 7:
Level 8:
Level 9:
Miracle: It's like the wizards Wish, but better!
Special mentions:
Summon monster line
Summon monster for the win here. Get something that grapples or trips. That's battlefield control, the blast that keeps on blasting, a buff if it gets into flanking position, and even kinda like preemptive healing if the enemy chooses to attack them instead of your party.
DMM Heighten
For kicks take a cleric with the Domination and Tyranny domains, pick up GSF:Enchantment and DMM:Heighten Spell. Normally picking the Heighten feat is a total waste, but DMM can redeem it.