1000 or 500 temporary hit points for undead.

[Dark Kerman]

Keep this simple.

Take the spell Thunderhead (Spell Compendium)
Take the feat, Fell Drain (Heroes of Horror)
(You can see where this is heading. :smallwink:)
Take the feat, Persist Spell (Not sure where this is, but it gives any spell with more than one round a level duration the duration of 24 hours.
With divine metamagic, you can drop the metamagic cost to +2, and give any undead +500 hitpoints for the rest of the day. :smallbiggrin:
This is mainly with Dread Necromancers in mind, as they have all the neccessary requirements in order to make this compilation.
Oh yes, and if you want, you can apply Twin Spell to double it up. :smallbiggrin:

Now, if you happen to have a lvl 20 dread necro, who is a lich, that would make you have more hit points than your fighter. :smallbiggrin:


*Note: A weak ring of electrical resistance would be advisable if you plan to automatically fail the reflex saves of Thunderhead.

Thoughts?

[Tyndmyr]

Er, fell drain inflicts negative levels, not hp damage via negative energy.

So, undead is immune to the negative levels inflicted(which only happen if the damage gets through anyway). And probably dies from the persisted thunderhead.

[Dark Kerman]

No, but when undead are effected by such spells, they gain 5hp per negative level "Bestowed" instead, which lasts for an hour, thus fell drain would constantly buff them (Check the spell Enervation). :smallamused:
Also, I recommended electricity resistance, so they are still effected by the negative levels, but not take the damage.

[Fouredged Sword]

Stacking rules. Temp HP don't stack.

[Dark Kerman]

Ahh, do they not? Drat. Ah well, back to the drawing board. :smallmad: Thanks for mentioning. :smallsmile:

[Eurus]

Looked it up, and the Enervation spell specifically says "An undead creature struck by the ray gains 1d4x5 temporary hit points for 1 hour", which is where I assume this idea comes from. But it doesn't actually say anything about negative levels in general, from other sources. Looking at Energy Drain and the undead type abilities in the MM, it doesn't mention anything like that, so Enervation would seem to be an exception rather than the rule. Unless Fell Drain specifically mentions giving undead temp HP? I don't have Heroes of Horror right now, so I'm not sure.

This is ignoring the question of if such temp HP would even stack, of course.

EDIT: Partially ninja'd, but the point stands.

[subject42]

I don't believe that Thunderhead is persistable.


The persistent spell must have a personal range or a fixed range.

Thunderhead from the SpC has a range of "Close", which is not fixed.

[Keld Denar]

Temp HP gained from negative levels only occurs where it is explicitly stated (such as in the text of Enervation for example).

Nothing in the text of negative levels, or the Undead type, states that when an undead gains a negative level, they gain temp HP instead. Contrarily, it simply states that they are immune to negative levels.

Otherwise you'd simply get a pet Wight to follow you around and "bad touch" you all day long until you have a brazilian temp HP and are virtually indestructable.


NEGATIVE LEVELS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!!

EDIT:

Stacking rules. Temp HP don't stack.

This is somewhat under debate. Temp HP from different sources DO stack. Whether or not each instance of temp HP gain stacks with other instances is a point of some contraversy. On one hand, we have the general stacking rules. On the other, we have a couple of monsters (Dream Vestage - Libris Mortis amongst them) that only reproduce when their temp HP equal there max HP. If temp HP from multiple touches don't stack, then a Dream Vestage is broken and doesn't work. There is no language in those creatures that state that they work any different from other undead, so temp HP gained from multiple touches SHOULD stack for undead that have energy or ability drain attacks. Or the author didn't know how the rules work. Regardless, its up to each DM to rule how they feel is appropriate.

[TurtleKing]

Even it doesn't give the undead 500 temp hp it can still make so they have a 5(+?) temp hp renewable "shield" for the entire day which isn't that bad.

[Taelas]

It doesn't work at all. The reasons have been mentioned already: Negative levels do not grant undead temporary hit points unless the effect deliberately states it does, temporary hit points do not stack, and the spell isn't Persistable.

[faceroll]

It doesn't work at all. The reasons have been mentioned already: Negative levels do not grant undead temporary hit points unless the effect deliberately states it does, temporary hit points do not stack, and the spell isn't Persistable.

Ocular Spell it. Problem solved.

[Taelas]

Even if you manage to Persist the spell, it still doesn't work that way.

[Flickerdart]

Yeah, but now you can walk around and stick all-day lightning clouds on people that look at you funny. Is it TO? No. Is it hilarious? You betcha.

[Dark Kerman]

Yes, even in that case you can (assuming that they only made the save on rolls of twenty) bestow roughly 82080 negative levels on a creature over the course of a day. :smallamused: (Btw, I know it is rather cheesy, but I thought it would be fun to point out :smalltongue:)

[faceroll]

Ocular Persist (lesser) Creeping Cold. It's surprisingly easy to pull off at low levels.

[Eurus]

Ocular Persist (lesser) Creeping Cold. It's surprisingly easy to pull off at low levels.

Ocular Persist an Uttercold Creeping Cold on your lich. Depending on how your DM interprets it -- because there's absolutely no indication for how an extended or persisted Creeping Cold works -- he'd either be healing a small handful of dice per round, or an arbitrarily large handful. :smallbiggrin:

[faceroll]

Ocular Persist an Uttercold Creeping Cold on your lich. Depending on how your DM interprets it -- because there's absolutely no indication for how an extended or persisted Creeping Cold works -- he'd either be healing a small handful of dice per round, or an arbitrarily large handful. :smallbiggrin:

3.0 Creeping Cold, maybe. SpC Creeping Cold seems pretty clear that increases by 1d6 damage every round, with no cap.