Help me defeat this creature

[Valdor]

Ok, So last time i played in my current game we found out that we were going to be fight against a Marruspawn Abomination....:smalleek: I have a pretty smart character(Int being 24 if i can recall correctly) and i will be doing alot of research before we tangle with this beast. I need help from you guys to figure out a few thing.


Is there a way to lower or even negate fast healing? Cause i am not sure we have the damage output to even make a dent against this thing
What spells would be best against it considering it has really awesome saves and a high SR
Is there any reliable good way to get constant hits against it? Cause even the closest thing we have to a melee class is a very un-optimized monk
Is there just any general tactics that will be effective against it?


At this point, any advice will be helpful as i dont want another TPK to happen. The last one happened only 2 sessions ago :smallannoyed:

As it is, we have in the party:

Me: Warmage/Havocmage/Eldritch Knight that i foolishly made without thinking. level 15
An un-optimized Oathsworn (from Arcana Unearthed). Level 13
I Trumput Archon using the savage progression table from Savage Species. level 14
And lastly a Rogue 5/fighter 2/wizard x/dervish dancer x. level 14

[/LIST]

Help please or should we just all start thinking of our next characters?

[myancey]

What spells would be best against it considering it has really awesome saves and a high SR

There is a spell in SpC that lowers spell resistance. I forget its name. It's a wizard/sorc spell, I believe.



Is there any reliable good way to get constant hits against it? Cause even the closest thing we have to a melee class is a very un-optimized monk

UMD with a wand of true strike?



Is there just any general tactics that will be effective against it?

Run away when the other players are killed.

[Kansaschaser]

First question: What is a Marruspawn Abomination?

[nyarlathotep]

First question: What is a Marruspawn Abomination?

A creature form sandstorm. It resembles a hulked out jackal humanoid.

[ClothedInVelvet]

Think non-linearly. You're going to get abused if you go at it head on. Is it in a room? Seal off the room with a wall of ice or something and flood it, drowning the creature. Drop heavy rocks on it. Use environment and outside factors rather than trying to breach its fast-healing and SR.

[myancey]

After checking the creatures stats..I would suggest letting it TPK and then have everyone draw up new characters. 300 HP, a decently high BAB with good damage, tons of immunities... SLA...and yeah, a pretty wicked SR.

The AC is 43? Can you guys hit that period?

My new recommendation: take the DMG and beat your DM in the head with it until he understands what CR means.

Side note: what level are you guys?

[EarFall]

Ok, So last time i played in my current game we found out that we were going to be fight against a Marruspawn Abomination....:smalleek: I have a pretty smart character(Int being 24 if i can recall correctly) and i will be doing alot of research before we tangle with this beast. I need help from you guys to figure out a few thing.


Is there a way to lower or even negate fast healing? Cause i am not sure we have the damage output to even make a dent against this thing
What spells would be best against it considering it has really awesome saves and a high SR
Is there any reliable good way to get constant hits against it? Cause even the closest thing we have to a melee class is a very un-optimized monk
Is there just any general tactics that will be effective against it?


At this point, any advice will be helpful as i dont want another TPK to happen. The last one happened only 2 sessions ago :smallannoyed:

As it is, we have in the party:

Me: Warmage/Havocmage/Eldritch Knight that i foolishly made without thinking.
An un-optimized Oathsworn (from Arcana Unearthed)
I Trumput Archon using the savage progression table from Savage Species
And lastly a Rogue 5/fighter 2/wizard x/dervish dancer x

[/LIST]

Help please or should we just all start thinking of our next characters?

If the party is that unoptimized, he shouldn't throw crap like that unless you are above it's CR, unless he WANTS to kill you (which is his right, technically). But really, that lacks troubleshooters, crowd control aside from damage, raw damage output except from spells....

I'm not claiming that's BAD. I happen to like playing unoptimized sometimes (thought not always)... but the DM needs to know what is what. There's really almost nothing you can do with those builds. Warmage has a set spell list.. boned. Monk... is a monk...

The last character is a gish I assume? I think his level spread isn't very good though, I'm not sure what he's going for. It depends what X is. If he can research or get scrolls of good troubleshooting stuff you'll be alright... but he seems to be the only way.

[Eldariel]

What level are you? There's a ton you can do, though your party kinda lacks in terms of full casters, but with some information on your capabilities it's easier to come up with a workable plan. All problems can be solved.


My new recommendation: take the DMG and beat your DM in the head with it until he understands what CR means.

Players are supposed to regularly face overwhelming challenges. It's right there in the CR structure in DMG. Beating someone in the head with DMG 'cause of them following the DMG seems kinda silly :smallwink:

Besides, what is CR but a miserable little pile of failure?

[Tokiko Mima]

I umm.. don't see an issue killing this.

It is a melee nightmare, of course! But every one of it's attacks/SLA's requires it to be in melee, except for the howl, which has a range of 30 feet. The fast healing 15 is annoying, but you should be able to output much more than 15 damage in a round between 4 people.

Here is a preliminary battle plan:
Step 1: Get flight, or have the Trumpet Archon carry you 35+ feet above the abomination. Stay just outside the Howl's maximum range.
Step 2: You're a Warmage... you have Orbs of X, right? And can hit AC 24 on a touch attack? Time to use those spells of yours! They don't trigger spell resistance or allow saves. I recommend not using Orbs of Cold or Fire though, as the critter has immunities/resistances to those.
Step 3: Absolutely avoid coming into melee. This thing has too many save or die melee touch SLA's. It's not worth it to fight it out on the ground. Non-fliers should provide support from extreme ranges only, and have an escape plan or three.
Step 4: If your friends lack ranged capability, you might have to suck it up and craft some scrolls or wands for them to UMD. If you can get your total damage output up to 100+ damage per round, that would be great. You don't want to give the baddie too much time to figure out he's being ranged down. He might try to escape!


Sidenote: As a (massive) warlock fan, I would like to point out that this particular baddie is crying out for some level 10+ warlock to come along and reduce him to eldritch slag. An enterprising hellfire Glaivelock might even successfully melee him down in one round.

[Ernir]

Is there a way to lower or even negate fast healing?

I think so (I'm AFB). Greymantle or something, in the Spell Compendium?

[Kansaschaser]

After checking the creatures stats..I would suggest letting it TPK and then have everyone draw up new characters. 300 HP, a decently high BAB with good damage, tons of immunities... SLA...and yeah, a pretty wicked SR.

The AC is 43? Can you guys hit that period?

My new recommendation: take the DMG and beat your DM in the head with it until he understands what CR means.

Side note: what level are you guys?

Yes, since it's a CR 19, you guys must be close to that. If your party is under level 17, I'd think the DM is trying to kill you guys off.

There are lots of Transmutation spells that might be helpful since they don't require spell resistance.

Since you have time to prepare, do this...

1. Purchase a Scroll of Forcecage.

2. Buy a giant glass tank.

3. Fill tank with water.

4. Cast "Water to Acid" (from Stormwrack) to turn the water to acid.

5. Cast "Shrink Item" on the acid and turn it into a piece of cloth.

6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 until you have a couple thousand gallons of shrunk acid.

7. Purchase a Scoll of Teleport Object.

8. Place all the pieces of "cloth" on a key ring.

You are now ready for the fight.

1. Cast Forcecage on the Marruspawn. There is no save and no spell resistance. Cast the cage without bars.

2. Cast Teleport Object on the key ring with the cloth. Have the object appear inside the Forcecage.

3. Say the magic words to return the cloth back to acid. The Marruspawn is now drowning in acid. (10d6 damage per round plus drowning)

4. Wait for the Marruspawn to die.

[myancey]

Players are supposed to regularly face overwhelming challenges. It's right there in the CR structure in DMG. Beating someone in the head with DMG 'cause of them following the DMG seems kinda silly :smallwink:

Besides, what is CR but a miserable little pile of failure?

:smallbiggrin: Fair enough. I suppose it depends on the DMs intentions. If he wants to TPK the party...he could do it with cooler means. And yes, while there is likely a strategy to avoid a TPK against this creature--from what I've read they're about to start the encounter so it's unlikely they'll be able to add much to their repertoire.

Maybe they could all roll 'perform: dead' checks?

OP: Does the party have a means of sinking this guy into the floor? We were fighting a mithril golem of some sort..the party being 13th(ish) level..the DM being an *** for throwing it at us. The druid used a stone to mud spell under its feat and then a mud to stone right after. It was awesome.

Edit: They do have time. Striking the one part...

[ClothedInVelvet]

Yes, since it's a CR 19, you guys must be close to that. If your party is under level 17, I'd think the DM is trying to kill you guys off.

There are lots of Transmutation spells that might be helpful since they don't require spell resistance.

Since you have time to prepare, do this...

1. Purchase a Scroll of Forcecage.

2. Buy a giant glass tank.

3. Fill tank with water.

4. Cast "Water to Acid" (from Stormwrack) to turn the water to acid.

5. Cast "Shrink Item" on the acid and turn it into a piece of cloth.

6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 until you have a couple thousand gallons of shrunk acid.

7. Purchase a Scoll of Teleport Object.

8. Place all the pieces of "cloth" on a key ring.

You are now ready for the fight.

1. Cast Forcecage on the Marruspawn. There is no save and no spell resistance. Cast the cage without bars.

2. Cast Teleport Object on the key ring with the cloth. Have the object appear inside the Forcecage.

3. Say the magic words to return the cloth back to acid. The Marruspawn is now drowning in acid. (10d6 damage per round plus drowning)

4. Wait for the Marruspawn to die.

Bingo. There is nothing that can't be defeated by a creative caster.

[myancey]

Bingo. There is nothing that can't be defeated by a creative caster.

Yeah...I'd probably go with that idea too. Actually, I want to use that on everything.

[Darrin]

The AC is 43? Can you guys hit that period?


Touch AC is only 24. Make a Blister Oil Bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9742205&postcount=2), add some Sovereign Glue + true strike, and don't roll a 1. Costs about 3571 GP.

He's also not immune to poison, so you could also try Sprayer (15 GP, A&EG p. 25) + two doses of Kammarth (80 GP, Lords of Darkness p. 183). Area effect, so no attack roll, and two doses within 8 hours triggers an overdose: target takes 1d4 damage and is paralyzed for 2d4 minutes. You did bring along your scythes, didn't you?

Mushroom Powder could also work (100 GP, Book of Vile Darkness p. 43). This is from a non-FR source, and it's non-magical vegetable matter, so if you had trouble finding it you could also create some via psionic minor creation or a Chaos Flask (Planar Handbook p. 76). Requires three applications to paralyze.

If your DM balks at the sprayer = autohits thing, the Mister (150 GP, Drow of the Underdark p. 92) is a bit more solid from a rules-standpoint, but requires a ranged touch attack within 5'. Any contact or inhaled poison (Kammarth = contact, Mushroom Powder = inhaled) can be delivered this way without a Ref save (ingested poisons allow a Ref save DC 15). (Mister + poison + true strike) x 3 = about 750 to 900 GP.

[Kansaschaser]

Yeah...I'd probably go with that idea too. Actually, I want to use that on everything.

You have to be careful. Overuse of this tactic will have your DM using creatures that are immune to Acid or ones that can teleport short distances easily.

Hell, a Wizard at level 1 that is a Conjuration specialist can teleport as an immediate action 10 feet a number of times per day equal to his/her intelligence bonus. This is an alternate class feature from Player's Handbook 2.


Bingo. There is nothing that can't be defeated by a creative caster.

Or, a creative Rogue with lots of Use Magic Device. You can get Shrink Item and Water to Acid on an Eternal Wand (Magic Item Compendium). Then you just need to buy a scroll of Forcecage and a scroll of Teleport Object.

[Eldariel]

You have to be careful. Overuse of this tactic will have your DM using creatures that are immune to Acid or ones that can teleport short distances easily.

It is, however, a solid way of abusing the fact that a Marruspawn Abomination is a loser without any good spell-likes or spellcasting and thus irrelevant.

[Telonius]

Touch AC is only 24. Make a Blister Oil Bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9742205&postcount=2), add some Sovereign Glue + true strike, and don't roll a 1. Costs about 3571 GP.

He's also not immune to poison, so you could also try Sprayer (15 GP, A&EG p. 25) + two doses of Kammarth (80 GP, Lords of Darkness p. 183). Area effect, so no attack roll, and two doses within 8 hours triggers an overdose: target takes 1d4 damage and is paralyzed for 2d4 minutes. You did bring along your scythes, didn't you?

Mushroom Powder could also work (100 GP, Book of Vile Darkness p. 43). This is from a non-FR source, and it's non-magical vegetable matter, so if you had trouble finding it you could also create some via psionic minor creation or a Chaos Flask (Planar Handbook p. 76). Requires three applications to paralyze.

If your DM balks at the sprayer = autohits thing, the Mister (150 GP, Drow of the Underdark p. 92) is a bit more solid from a rules-standpoint, but requires a ranged touch attack within 5'. Any contact or inhaled poison (Kammarth = contact, Mushroom Powder = inhaled) can be delivered this way without a Ref save (ingested poisons allow a Ref save DC 15). (Mister + poison + true strike) x 3 = about 750 to 900 GP.

For that matter, you could just spend a few thousand gold to buy ten gallons of Drow Knockout Poison. Apply it to as many arrows as you like, start flying, and snipe away. Eventually you'll hit, and eventually he'll fail his Fortitude save. He then loses his Dex to AC, and takes a -4 penalty besides. If that's still not enough to guarantee you a hit, wraithstrike.

[TriForce]

basically, since its CR 19, if you guys are nowhere near it, it seems your DM is teaching you the value of running the **** away :P

[Tokiko Mima]

How are people figuring out what (party) level the OP is? :smallconfused:

[Traab]

How are people figuring out what (party) level the OP is? :smallconfused:

Rough guess. They figure out the cr of the encounter, then assume that since the OP is worried his group must be somewhat under the creatures level, then working from there. They are working under the assumption that it isnt meant to be a no way to avoid it TPK.

[myancey]

How are people figuring out what (party) level the OP is? :smallconfused:


Rough guess.

And mind powers. But we're not supposed to mention those.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Engage it for a few rounds skirmishing (Attack, Run, Wait/Buff/? while someone else repeats the above process) when you're about to die teleport. Sometimes you have to follow one of the oldest and noblest traditions, you must fight, to run away.

[Kenneth]

Actually this would be an easy fight for your character. Orb of Acid and Orb of sound are both ranged touch attacks, ignore spell resistant and have no save. toss in some meta magic and POW his 300 HP don't seem so scary.

also there are evard black tentacles to consider,as well as a bunhc of other ignoring spell resistance spells that offer some sort of battleground control.

[Valdor]

That was my fault for not including party level. I am the highest level at 15 and the rest are 13 and 14. We are supposed to face off the beast in about 2 or 3 sessions after the DM told us OOC that the 2 and 3 sessions would be entirely be spent in a tomb trying to even get to the the abomination

so at this point i am thinking about having my character strike off on his own and learn basket-weaving.

Thanks for the advise so far guys. I am going to talk with the DM and explain to him that unless he plans on debuffing that we stand no chance and he needs to take a look at the composition of the party. He tends to forget these things when he is excited about a new book

[Eldariel]

That was my fault for not including party level. I am the highest level at 15 and the rest are 13 and 14. We are supposed to face off the beast in about 2 or 3 sessions after the DM told us OOC that the 2 and 3 sessions would be entirely be spent in a tomb trying to even get to the the abomination

so at this point i am thinking about having my character strike off on his own and learn basket-weaving.

Thanks for the advise so far guys. I am going to talk with the DM and explain to him that unless he plans on debuffing that we stand no chance and he needs to take a look at the composition of the party. He tends to forget these things when he is excited about a new book

Level 13-15, you should be more than equipped to deal with it. Just get spell trigger items if nothing else.

[Big Fau]

My new recommendation: take the DMG and beat your DM in the head with it until he understands what CR means.

Nitpick: In this case, it may not be the DM's fault. The Marruspawn Abomination was never errataed, and one of the creators stated that it was under-CR'ed after reviewing the finished product.

Do remember that it is the only creature under CR20 with the Abomination type (a type introduced in the ELH, designed for Epic-level characters).


@OP: Solid Fog+Dimension Lock is the best way to buy time if the party gets hurt really bad and needs some time to breath. Follow up with Acid Fog (and a rod of Energy Substitution for whatever energy type it isn't immune to).


Cloudkill may work too, since it's not immune to poison. Heighten the DC a few points first though.

[squeekenator]

Do remember that it is the only creature under CR20 with the Abomination type (a type introduced in the ELH, designed for Epic-level characters).

Actually, despite being called an Abomination and flavoured as such, it doesn't have that type, so it's not quite that bad. It has a lot of abomination traits, but lacks important ones such as regeneration, 500 foot range blindsight and DR/epic.

[Valdor]

Again, thanks for the responses. If the DM still feels the need to have us fight this thing then i will try to have as many of these tricks ready to go. I am hoping that we can lure it into a very big space and just fly circles around it. while pelting it with what we can