The Easy Exploit Compendium

[Flame of Anor]

Alright, fellows, let's compile some easy exploits. We all know that if you take three different prestige classes and 5 feats and a couple ACFs you can do lots of broken things, but how about the simple stuff, where you only need a couple spells or feats? Make sure they have catchy titles.

Here's an example:

"The Divine Drag Race"
Release the energy from a persisted Footsteps Of The Divine (SpC) and you can add about 27 miles to your base land speed for one round.

EDIT: here's another one:

"The Bottomless Pit"
Put a portable hole on the bottom of another portable hole (there's no rule that says anything happens if you do that). Put another one on the bottom of that one. Repeat ad inopiam fossarum (i.e. until you're out of holes).


Now go, my minions!

[Cog]

"The Divine Drag Race"
Release the energy from a persisted Footsteps Of The Divine (SpC) and you can add about 27 miles to your base land speed for one round.
The errata for Persist killed that one; it doesn't work on dischargeable spells now.

[Flame of Anor]

The errata for Persist killed that one; it doesn't work on dischargeable spells now.

Footsteps is not dischargeable--the word "discharge" is nowhere in the spell description. Besides, the errata is trying to say that you can't have, say, infinite stoneskin or protection from arrows. Basically, if it can run out of oomph before the duration expires, then you can't persist it. But Footsteps doesn't run out of oomph--you just shorten the duration.

[Cog]

That only works if you take discharge to only mean references to the word "discharge" specifically, and not as a simple English word, which it also is. You can most certainly discharge Footsteps of the Divine (CC, by the way, not SPC), even though the spell lacks that particular word. Note that the spell's duration also has the (D) tag.

[Yorae]

That only works if you take discharge to only mean references to the word "discharge" specifically, and not as a simple English word, which it also is. You can most certainly discharge Footsteps of the Divine (CC, by the way, not SPC), even though the spell lacks that particular word. Note that the spell's duration also has the (D) tag.

The "(D)" tag just means that the caster can dismiss the spell at will to end it. It doesn't indicate anything about discharging.

[myancey]

The "(D)" tag just means that the caster can dismiss the spell at will to end it. It doesn't indicate anything about discharging.

True that.

From SRD:


(D) Dismissible

If the Duration line ends with "(D)," you can dismiss the spell at will. You must be within range of the spell’s effect and must speak words of dismissal, which are usually a modified form of the spell’s verbal component. If the spell has no verbal component, you can dismiss the effect with a gesture. Dismissing a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

[Flame of Anor]

Hey, guys, this is not the "Let's discuss rules-interpretation minutiae" thread. Let's keep on topic.

[Tokiko Mima]

Here's mine:

"Dragonfire Napalm"
Take a level of Dragonfire Adept, and the Entangling Exhalation (RoD) feat. Now you can entangle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#entangled) enemies in a 30' line or 15' cone for 1d4 rounds, whilst doing 1d6 damage/round to them. This requires only a standard action, works at level 1 and automatically applies on anything that lacks Evasion.

Compare to the average damage of a level 1 fighter or sorcerer.


Footsteps is not dischargeable--the word "discharge" is nowhere in the spell description. Besides, the errata is trying to say that you can't have, say, infinite stoneskin or protection from arrows. Basically, if it can run out of oomph before the duration expires, then you can't persist it. But Footsteps doesn't run out of oomph--you just shorten the duration.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the Complete Champion errata added the words 'or until discharged' to the duration text. It was more or less done specifically to make sure you could not Persist Footsteps of the Divine.

[Traab]

This is HILARIOUS. The topic didnt even get past the first post before dissolving into an argument. I almost feel like im in a D&D game, listening to a player try to shoe horn in an unexpected idea past the DM who isnt buying the justification. "No really! If my minotaur team mate tosses my halfling wizard into the air and I cast wall of iron over the top of the dragon, it should do relatively massive damage when it smashes into his skull!"

[Radar]

Persisted Mass Lesser Vigor solves all healing problems.

"Or we could summon a horde of angels." - Gate any creature, that has Gate as a spell or SLA. You know the rest.

Candle of Invocation (Lawful Evil) - call an Efreet and use one of the wishes to get another Candle.

[SleepyShadow]

Drowning yourself to 0 hp to avoid taking damage that would otherwise kill you. That is the general solution to stopping an "infinite damage loop."

[Amphetryon]

Drowning yourself to 0 hp to avoid taking damage that would otherwise kill you. That is the general solution to stopping an "infinite damage loop."

Other than the whole "now try to stop drowning" problem that arises thereafter.

[Vladislav]

The Wireless Troll

When away on a long journey, you leave some minions to guard your castle. They need a way to get in touch with you; unfortunately they're all low level losers and can't cast Sending. No problem! Easy solution - take a Troll finger with you, while your minions keep the rest of the troll captive and tied up. When they need to send you an urgent message, they slice the Troll into tiny pieces, smaller than a finger. Voila, the finger you're carrying is now the largest part of the Troll, and starts regenerating - so you know your minions have something important for you, and can cast Sending yourself.

The Faster-than-Light Horseback Travel

Get a +19 Ride modifier. Line an arbitrarily-long row of horses, side to side. Mount one horse as a free action (DC 20 Ride check, achieved automatically), dismount as a free action on the other side (again, DC 20). Repeat as many times as needed, moving along the row of horses at arbitrarily high speed.

[nyarlathotep]

Other than the whole "now try to stop drowning" problem that arises thereafter.

Yes as there is no RAW way to stop drowning ever. At best you net yourself an extra round or two of life.

[NNescio]

This is HILARIOUS. The topic didnt even get past the first post before dissolving into an argument. I almost feel like im in a D&D game, listening to a player try to shoe horn in an unexpected idea past the DM who isnt buying the justification. "No really! If my minotaur team mate tosses my halfling wizard into the air and I cast wall of iron over the top of the dragon, it should do relatively massive damage when it smashes into his skull!"

This is trivial to shut down.

RAW: A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

This restriction is probably put there to prevent whale-bombing. Also, if this restriction is not present, you don't need to toss the wizard -- he can aim spells vertically just fine.

[Kansaschaser]

The Faster-than-Light Horseback Travel

Get a +19 Ride modifier. Line an arbitrarily-long row of horses, side to side. Mount one horse as a free action (DC 20 Ride check, achieved automatically), dismount as a free action on the other side (again, DC 20). Repeat as many times as needed, moving along the row of horses at arbitrarily high speed.

Oh my! :smallbiggrin: I'm laughing so hard it made me cry. That's about as funny as the commoner rail gun.

Instead of having roads and railways, you could have clockwork horses lined up from city to city. Then to make sure people have enough ride skill to accomplish "faster-than-light travel", you give each one of them a magic item that gives them a +10 competence bonus to ride (then tell them to "take 10"). So once they paid for their ticket to travel to another city, you give them the item. They hop on the first horse and they end up in a new city that same round.


This is trivial to shut down.

RAW: A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

This restriction is probably put there to prevent whale-bombing. Also, if this restriction is not present, you don't need to toss the wizard -- he can aim spells vertically just fine.

My trick is a little more simple.

Instant Crush Death from Stone Shape

While inside a cave or underground, you cast Stone Shape and have it make a 1 inch thick space between a 10 foot cubed stone above a monster you want to kill. The resulting stone that falls on the monster (if it failed it's reflex save) would do 12,096D6 damage. That is according to the damage caused by falling objects. Since a falling object does 1D6 damage per 25 pounds of weight. A 10 foot cube of stone would weigh about 302,400 pounds.

[hobbitkniver]

The Wireless Troll

When away on a long journey, you leave some minions to guard your castle. They need a way to get in touch with you; unfortunately they're all low level losers and can't cast Sending. No problem! Easy solution - take a Troll finger with you, while your minions keep the rest of the troll captive and tied up. When they need to send you an urgent message, they slice the Troll into tiny pieces, smaller than a finger. Voila, the finger you're carrying is now the largest part of the Troll, and starts regenerating - so you know your minions have something important for you, and can cast Sending yourself.

The Faster-than-Light Horseback Travel

Get a +19 Ride modifier. Line an arbitrarily-long row of horses, side to side. Mount one horse as a free action (DC 20 Ride check, achieved automatically), dismount as a free action on the other side (again, DC 20). Repeat as many times as needed, moving along the row of horses at arbitrarily high speed.

Haha these are great. The secondm one reminds me of the minecart travel by similar methods in Minecraft.

[Loki_42]

Hey, guys, this is not the "Let's discuss rules-interpretation minutiae" thread. Let's keep on topic.

Uhh... We're trying to find easy tricks to break the game. How is that not rules-interpretation minutiae?

[sreservoir]

Oh my! :smallbiggrin: I'm laughing so hard it made me cry. That's about as funny as the commoner rail gun.


fun fact: ride can be used with anything, even things unsuitable as mounts. if you manage to get yourself down to small, and have a +24 ride check, you can even do it with commoners.

[Vladislav]

fun fact: ride can be used with anything, even things unsuitable as mounts. if you manage to get yourself down to small, and have a +24 ride check, you can even do it with commoners.
I'm gonna make a Halfling Ranger with Leadership right now.

[myancey]

The Wireless Troll

When away on a long journey, you leave some minions to guard your castle. They need a way to get in touch with you; unfortunately they're all low level losers and can't cast Sending. No problem! Easy solution - take a Troll finger with you, while your minions keep the rest of the troll captive and tied up. When they need to send you an urgent message, they slice the Troll into tiny pieces, smaller than a finger. Voila, the finger you're carrying is now the largest part of the Troll, and starts regenerating - so you know your minions have something important for you, and can cast Sending yourself.


The wireless troll is sick. :smallbiggrin: Pretty dang inventive.


Uhh... We're trying to find easy tricks to break the game. How is that not rules-interpretation minutiae?

Truth.

[hydroplatypus]

step 1: cast illusory wall when chased
step2: cast prismatic wall about 1 inch behind illusory wall
step 3: laugh

[sreservoir]

I'm gonna make a Halfling Ranger with Leadership right now.

why not a psywar thrallherd?

they can even compression two sizes down and do it with tiny creatures.

[Traab]

This is trivial to shut down.

RAW: A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

This restriction is probably put there to prevent whale-bombing. Also, if this restriction is not present, you don't need to toss the wizard -- he can aim spells vertically just fine.

I was just listing something silly sounding at random, not trying to come up with an honest to god off the wall idea off the top of my head. I hope you at least got the point I was trying to make.

[WinWin]

Antihero Complex

Vow of Poverty + Embrace the Dark Chaos + Shun the Dark Chaos

[myancey]

I was just listing something silly sounding at random, not trying to come up with an honest to god off the wall idea off the top of my head. I hope you at least got the point I was trying to make.

But conversations like this are supposed to be debated. Some people have really wrong ideas--and should be shown the light of RAW. :smallbiggrin:

[Kansaschaser]

Antihero Complex

Vow of Poverty + Embrace the Dark Chaos + Shun the Dark Chaos

I know what Vow of Poverty is. What is "Embrace the Dark Chaos" and "Shun the Dark Chaos". Also, where are they from? What does that combo accomplish?

[Douglas]

Footsteps is not dischargeable--the word "discharge" is nowhere in the spell description. Besides, the errata is trying to say that you can't have, say, infinite stoneskin or protection from arrows. Basically, if it can run out of oomph before the duration expires, then you can't persist it. But Footsteps doesn't run out of oomph--you just shorten the duration.
Correction: The errata for Footsteps of the Divine killed that exploit by adding "discharge" phrasing.

The Wireless Troll and pony express ideas work, though, and are hilarious.


I know what Vow of Poverty is. What is "Embrace the Dark Chaos" and "Shun the Dark Chaos". Also, where are they from? What does that combo accomplish?
Embrace the Dark Chaos is a spell that replaces any feat you have with an Abyssal Heritor feat that you qualify for. Shun the Dark Chaos replaces any Abyssal Heritor feat you have with any feat you qualify for. Combine the two, and you can completely reassign your feats without restriction.

Now do that with all the bonus feats from Vow of Poverty. Instead of having a bunch of near worthless bonus Exalted feats, you have the same number of the best feats you can find from all of D&D 3.5 that you qualify for. Oh, and since technically you gained these feats from spells, you keep them even if you swap out Vow of Poverty itself.

[WinWin]

Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos are spells from Feindish Codex 1. You replace any feat with an abyssal heritor feat with one spell, then replace an abyssal heritor feat with any other feat with a the second spell.

You effectively trade your free exalted feats from Vow Of Povery with any feat you qualify for. If you're feeling ornery, trade out Vow of Poverty as well, then demand full WBL from your DM.

[Traab]

But conversations like this are supposed to be debated. Some people have really wrong ideas--and should be shown the light of RAW. :smallbiggrin:

Pfft, RAW, you say that term like it actually MEANS something. RAW is just for downer DMs who refuse to let their players enjoy themselves.

[myancey]

Pfft, RAW, you say that term like it actually MEANS something. RAW is just for downer DMs who refuse to let their players enjoy themselves.

Nice. I'm taking this in jest, of course, because as a serious statement it makes no sense. :smalltongue:

RAW is a beautiful thing. It destroys arguments and prevents the derailing of games. I used to be a houserule DM. It was fun while it worked--but would often break down into argument.

[Traab]

Nice. I'm taking this in jest, of course, because as a serious statement it makes no sense. :smalltongue:

RAW is a beautiful thing. It destroys arguments and prevents the derailing of games. I used to be a houserule DM. It was fun while it worked--but would often break down into argument.

BAH! I can solve the argument problem in 3 simple sentences. "Rocks fall. You die. Anyone else got a problem with how I run things?" :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

Hey, guys, this is not the "Let's discuss rules-interpretation minutiae" thread. Let's keep on topic.

Exploits are a rules discussion, and all rules discussions revolve around minutiae.

Psionics has a whole mess of them, many of which were gathered by KA in my sig.

[faceroll]

Dark Chaos Shuffle with Legacy Weapon rules gets you as many feats as you can burn xp casting the spells.

[myancey]

Dark Chaos Shuffle with Legacy Weapon rules gets you as many feats as you can burn xp casting the spells.

Whaaa? Could you break this down--because it has peaked the interest of the optimizer in me. :smallbiggrin:

[Metahuman1]

Regarding the VoP trick. If you trade out VoP with those spells, do you keep the stat boosts, DR, Supernatural ability's, fast healing, ext?

[Quietus]

Regarding the VoP trick. If you trade out VoP with those spells, do you keep the stat boosts, DR, Supernatural ability's, fast healing, ext?

If you lose VoP, then no, because those are part of the package with that feat. In fact, I'm not sure if you could *keep* VoP, depending on what the Abyssal Heritor feats fall under.

Note : That last is entirely guesswork, as I've never seen any abyssal heritor feats OR the text of embrace/shun spells.

[Metahuman1]

Ok.

It would still be worth it though, get the spiffy from the early levels, then use the Spells to quickly swap out all the feats you have gained for useful feats and swap out VoP and Sacred Vow as part of that, net five or six or seven feats easy. Suddenly that Warrior character who's good at Melee and ranged attack is viable becuase you have all the feats you need.

[WinWin]

Abyssal Heritor Feats are chaotic. Off limits for a paladin, but neutral or chaotic exalted characters are fine.

[Doughnut Master]

Oh my! :smallbiggrin: I'm laughing so hard it made me cry. That's about as funny as the commoner rail gun.

Instead of having roads and railways, you could have clockwork horses lined up from city to city. Then to make sure people have enough ride skill to accomplish "faster-than-light travel", you give each one of them a magic item that gives them a +10 competence bonus to ride (then tell them to "take 10"). So once they paid for their ticket to travel to another city, you give them the item. They hop on the first horse and they end up in a new city that same round.



My trick is a little more simple.

Instant Crush Death from Stone Shape

While inside a cave or underground, you cast Stone Shape and have it make a 1 inch thick space between a 10 foot cubed stone above a monster you want to kill. The resulting stone that falls on the monster (if it failed it's reflex save) would do 12,096D6 damage. That is according to the damage caused by falling objects. Since a falling object does 1D6 damage per 25 pounds of weight. A 10 foot cube of stone would weigh about 302,400 pounds.

I thought it was 1d6 for every 200lbs?

[Lateral]

BAH! I can solve the argument problem in 3 simple sentences. "Rocks fall. You die. Anyone else got a problem with how I run things?" :smallbiggrin:

Response: one sentence. "Screw that, man, I'm out of here." :smallannoyed:

[Traab]

Response: one sentence. "Screw that, man, I'm out of here." :smallannoyed:

At which point you trigger your rl booby trap and he is crushed under falling rocks. Then you look at the others, quirk an eyebrow questioningly, and ask them, "Anyone else have a problem with my DM style?"

[Hiro Protagonest]

At which point you trigger your rl booby trap and he is crushed under falling rocks. Then you look at the others, quirk an eyebrow questioningly, and ask them, "Anyone else have a problem with my DM style?"

At which point I grab the DMG and bash your head with it, then throw your books on the way to the door to trigger any more traps.

[Lateral]

At which point you trigger your rl booby trap and he is crushed under falling rocks. Then you look at the others, quirk an eyebrow questioningly, and ask them, "Anyone else have a problem with my DM style?"

O_o

B... wh... wha... kkk... a... rrgh...

:furious:

I RIP YOUR ARMS OFF, PUNY MAN!
--------
There's always the simple +1 manifester arrows trick for psions.

[TheCountAlucard]

Instant Crush Death from Stone Shape

While inside a cave or underground, you cast Stone Shape and have it make a 1 inch thick space between a 10 foot cubed stone above a monster you want to kill. The resulting stone that falls on the monster (if it failed it's reflex save) would do 12,096D6 damage. That is according to the damage caused by falling objects. Since a falling object does 1D6 damage per 25 pounds of weight. A 10 foot cube of stone would weigh about 302,400 pounds.Not quite; it caps at 20d6, just like falling does.

[Timeless Error]

Awesome. I totally need to use these in a campaign some time.

Especially the row of horses one.

Bwahahaha, Alucard, we have followed you to the very farthest reaches of the Playground! Fear us! ...OK, I should probably stop now.

[TheCountAlucard]

Indeed.

Whatever, man; you ain't got no pancake mix. You haven't even reached my campaign journal yet. Hmph.

[Zaq]

Easy exploits? Thought Bottle. Just . . . Thought Bottle. Hell, its intended purpose is, for all intents and purposes, an exploit. ohohoho intended purpose intents and purposes do you see what I did there

[myancey]

Not quite; it caps at 20d6, just like falling does.

I think it depends on how you read it. The sentence where it lists a cap is speaking specifically on 'distance'. The sentence just before it, where it mentions 1d6 per 200lbs has no cap on it. I would read them as separate.


From SRD:

For each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet.


Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first (to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage).

This comes from the same paragraph, but is separated. The 1st lists the damage received by an object falling on you due to weight. The 2nd lists additional damage accrued through distance fallen.

[ffone]

Nice. I'm taking this in jest, of course, because as a serious statement it makes no sense. :smalltongue:

RAW is a beautiful thing. It destroys arguments and prevents the derailing of games. I used to be a houserule DM. It was fun while it worked--but would often break down into argument.

+1. So +1.

I try to houserule exceedingly rarely. The more you houserule - even if each one seems reasonable - the more:

1. Players wheedle for this or that houserule as well, and you get into endless debates over what's reasonable. DMing becomes more political and socially awkward (it depends on the social relationship between the DM and each player, or at least they might perceive it that way, and resent the DM if they perceive favoritism)
2. Instead of thinking about how to solve problems in-character, players think about how to convince the DM to alter the world to suit their needs
3. You get into unintended consequences, where the houserules lead to exploits, or hose certain things.

[Vladislav]

Yeah, we must avoid at all cost having D&D from becoming a game of social interaction. A heavy "No Houserule Ever" bootstamp is definitely a step in the right direction. [/sarcasm]

[Slipperychicken]

trade out Vow of Poverty as well, then demand full WBL from your DM.

Player: I Demand Full WBL! :smallamused:

DM: Good luck finding it :smallannoyed:. Rocks fall, your character dies and goes to hell, and with his death the spells Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos are lost forever. Roll up a Fighter, straight-classed. BTW he's starting off naked.

Player: :smalleek:

[Psyren]

Player: XBAWKS

Fixed, although Chaos Shuffling would have been the death knell of that campaign to begin with.

[Flame of Anor]

This is HILARIOUS. The topic didnt even get past the first post before dissolving into an argument.

It's (in effect) an optimization board--I hardly could have expected anything else. :smallbiggrin:


The Wireless Troll
...

The Faster-than-Light Horseback Travel

I lol'd. A lot.


Uhh... We're trying to find easy tricks to break the game. How is that not rules-interpretation minutiae?

Uh-oh, now we're into thread-interpretation minutiae! Basically, what I mean is this. Post (what you think are) exploits. Alternatively, post why you don't think someone else's works. Alternatively, post why it actually does. But please don't keep going past that. I don't want to see more than 3-4 posts arguing about a single exploit.


Embrace the Dark Chaos is a spell that replaces any feat you have with an Abyssal Heritor feat that you qualify for. Shun the Dark Chaos replaces any Abyssal Heritor feat you have with any feat you qualify for. Combine the two, and you can completely reassign your feats without restriction.

Now do that with all the bonus feats from Vow of Poverty.

:smallamused:

[faceroll]

Whaaa? Could you break this down--because it has peaked the interest of the optimizer in me. :smallbiggrin:

Having a legacy weapon and doing the ritual gets you a feat. Chaos Shuffle the feat away, and you still have a legacy weapon. So perform the ritual again and get a feat.

[Radar]

Having a legacy weapon and doing the ritual gets you a feat. Chaos Shuffle the feat away, and you still have a legacy weapon. So perform the ritual again and get a feat.
Same thing can be done with feat-granting locations like Otyugh Hole.

[Socratov]

get a silver tounge, for 1 class level (or any way to get 1 invocation) dip into warlock, and get +6 bonus to bluff, intimidate and diplomacy for free, 24 hours a day. I literally reached +30 bluff (with items, max ranks and feats) modifier on lvl 7 get potion of glibness (or be a bard with the spell and cast it) and you can litterally do this shizzle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0767.html)

[The Glyphstone]

For the Wireless Troll, how do you keep the finger alive indefinitely? Regeneration makes the largest chunk of the creature start growing a new one, but the other parts just die - so under normal circumstances, you'd have a dead troll finger soon after you left that wouldn't regenerate into anything.

[Amnestic]

Unguent of Timelessness? Gentle Repose? Probably other options too.

[Socratov]

on the troll, animate wouldnt work, would it?

[Bob the DM]

Sadly, there are limits to the number of free actions you can take each round, per DM discression. Although the ride trick will be making an appearance at the next town fair. Sadly I haven't heard any real exploits yet. The ride trick, is limited by the number of free actions the dm let's you take. The stone shape is a GREAT use of situational awareness in combat (we had a player do the same thing, only with transmute to mud. It stopped the vampires AND killed a pc.). :) As for the troll thing, that's so ingenious and creative that if I had a player try that in my game, I'd most likely give them a free level up on the spot. Come on, let's hear the REAL exploits, the stuff that makes you shake your head in disgust, not laugh out loud.

[Socratov]

would the VoP and embarce+shun the dark chaos explooit not net you infinite feats? you could just create a new vop feat when you get rid of the old one, gaining a new feat, and you can do this over and over again... so you want to be a fighter with full charging, powerattack and full weapon specialisation/mastery? (can also be done with barbarian, but you would mis the weapon mastery...)

[Devmaar]

Another way to get infinite feats from Dark Chaos Shuffle is Elder Evil Devotion:

Devote to Elder Evil, gain Feats
Shuffle Feats into something useful
Renounce Elder Evil
Devote to Elder Evil, gain Feats
Repeat, Ad Nauseum

[Flame of Anor]

Come on, let's hear the REAL exploits, the stuff that makes you shake your head in disgust, not laugh out loud.

Now, now, both kinds are welcome here.

[Quietus]

would the VoP and embarce+shun the dark chaos explooit not net you infinite feats? you could just create a new vop feat when you get rid of the old one, gaining a new feat, and you can do this over and over again... so you want to be a fighter with full charging, powerattack and full weapon specialisation/mastery? (can also be done with barbarian, but you would mis the weapon mastery...)

VoP doesn't give you feats retroactively. If you gain, say, level 4 while having VoP, you gain a bonus exalted feat at level 4. If you take VoP at level 6, you never get that level 4 feat.

[Shadowknight12]

Wish... for two Wishes.

[The Rabbler]

Wish... for two Wishes.

when this is refused, wish that you could wish for more wishes.

[Shadowknight12]

when this is refused, wish that you could wish for more wishes.

When that is refused, wish that you could wish for the ability to wish for more wishes. Do this ad infinitum.

WARNING: Brain damage, massive haemorrhaging, loss of limbs, blunt force trauma, coma and/or death is possible. Consult your physician.

[Radar]

When that is refused, wish that you could wish for the ability to wish for more wishes. Do this ad infinitum.

WARNING: Brain damage, massive haemorrhaging, loss of limbs, blunt force trauma, coma and/or death is possible. Consult your physician.
Or simply wish for Candle of Invocation (Lawful Evil), so you can later call an Efreet to get 3 more Wishes.

[Zaq]

Or simply wish for Candle of Invocation (Lawful Evil), so you can later call an Efreet to get 3 more Wishes.

Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pa—

[Metahuman1]

Also acquire a Deck of many things, and use one of the wishes to wish to be unaffected by undesired effects form the deck when you draw form it.

Then, Start Drawing as often as you like, until you've left "Broke the stat's/WBL" as a distant memory.

[ffone]

Yeah, we must avoid at all cost having D&D from becoming a game of social interaction. A heavy "No Houserule Ever" bootstamp is definitely a step in the right direction. [/sarcasm]

See, I like genuine social interaction among equals, as opposed to, 'players brownnosing, flirting lamely, or whining, because they want me to allow favorable-to-them houserules."

I suspect that's many DMs DO houserule liberally. They like the supplication.

[Shadowknight12]

See, I like genuine social interaction among equals, as opposed to, 'players brownnosing, flirting lamely, or whining, because they want me to allow favorable-to-them houserules."

I suspect that's many DMs DO houserule liberally. They like the supplication.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahaha. Hahaha. Heh. Hee.

No. Not at all. Not all of them.

[Siosilvar]

See, I like genuine social interaction among equals, as opposed to, 'players brownnosing, flirting lamely, or whining, because they want me to allow favorable-to-them houserules."

I suspect that's many DMs DO houserule liberally. They like the supplication.

The group of players you're describing sounds very immature, and the house rules have nothing to do with it. Any player that whines to get his way and any DM that gives into the same should remember that they're supposed to be responsible human beings participating in genuine social interaction among equals.

House rules aren't (or at least shouldn't be) favoritism, but rather rules not in the core books that make the game:

A) simpler and clearer, e.g. simplifying the grapple rules.
B) more fun, e.g. removing massive damage.
C) make more sense, e.g. removing heal-by-drowning.
D) address some situation not covered elsewhere, i.e. "rule zero".
E) more awesome.
F) fit the players' and GM's characters/campaign/story better.
G) hopefully more than one of the above.
H) remove exploits like the ones listed here, or errors like the fact that monks aren't proficient with their unarmed strikes.

All of the above are subjective, but house rules are not in and of themselves bad. Sure, they might lead to some contention, but the RAW do as well, and can lead to house rules themselves (specifically types A through C and H).

[myancey]

All of the above are subjective, but house rules are not in and of themselves bad. Sure, they might lead to some contention, but the RAW do as well, and can lead to house rules themselves (specifically types A through C and H).

But the instances of RAW leading to arguments are far fewer than house rules. If you're unable to find it in RAW and decide to house rule, it's likely that you haven't looked hard enough or the action shouldn't be allowed for the sake of balance.

The one benefit I can really see for house rule is if a debate over some unlisted action does arise and the DM doesn't want to take the time to look it up.

And yes, while house rules aren't always bad, the argument was that they stereotypically are and often lead to contention. They are usually a quick ruling by the DM--often leading to poor precedent being set.

In essence, house ruling is a bad habit--akin to biting one's fingernails.

[Shadowknight12]

In essence, house ruling is a bad habit--akin to biting one's fingernails.

In your opinion, of course. Which is quite fine. We all have those.

[myancey]

In your opinion, of course. Which is quite fine. We all have those.

If by opinion you mean professional critique. :smallbiggrin:

[Shadowknight12]

If by opinion you mean professional critique. :smallbiggrin:

Why I do! Because they're both the same. :smallwink:

[myancey]

Why I do! Because they're both the same. :smallwink:

Blast these corners I work myself into through misused definitions and such. Touché sir.

Oh, as for my limited exploitation-maybe this has been covered before. It was my negative energy zombie bombs.

Use a flying castle, and drop zombies created with destructive retribution on people. The fall is enough damage to destroy the zombies, causing them to explode. I was going to use this tactic in a city siege campaign.

Alchemist flasks on rope around the zombies neck can be used for added effect.

[candycorn]

BAH! I can solve the argument problem in 3 simple sentences. "Rocks fall. You die. Anyone else got a problem with how I run things?" :smallbiggrin:

The counter argument to that is, "Screw this, let's go play Call of Duty."

[Gametime]

But the instances of RAW leading to arguments are far fewer than house rules.

This seems like a wholly unsubstantiated assertion.


They are usually a quick ruling by the DM--often leading to poor precedent being set.

As does this.

House rules and written rules can't be judged in a vacuum. They are both diverse enough that value judgments can't accurately be made about either set. They should be judged individually and on their merit; I can't imagine many arguments resulting from, say, houseruling Weapon Finesse to not have a +1 BAB requirement, nor can I imagine a great deal of brownnosing from players as a result.

[Flame of Anor]

On topic, folks, please!

[dextercorvia]

I happen to like Rage Claws (MoI). When they are shaped you get a Diehard like effect that lets you act normally to -something HP where that is less than -10 and based on essentia invested. This renders death effects worthless on you, because when you die, your HP become -10, which means you can act normally.


In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how she died, has -10 hit points.

[Siosilvar]

I happen to like Rage Claws (MoI). When they are shaped you get a Diehard like effect that lets you act normally to -something HP where that is less than -10 and based on essentia invested. This renders death effects worthless on you, because when you die, your HP become -10, which means you can act normally.

Technically, that means that you're immune to death via HP damage as well, because since your rageclaws let you survive below -10, then when you finally do die, you're back up to -10 and alive again via rageclaws.

Even more technically, everybody can do this because nothing says you can't take actions while you're dead, that little clause that says "real-world physics generally apply" be darned.

[dextercorvia]

Technically, that means that you're immune to death via HP damage as well, because since your rageclaws let you survive below -10, then when you finally do die, you're back up to -10 and alive again via rageclaws.

Even more technically, everybody can do this because nothing says you can't take actions while you're dead, that little clause that says "real-world physics generally apply" be darned.

Normally you are unconscious when your Non-lethal damage of 0 is greater than your HP of -whatever. Rageclaws and similar are necessary to override that.

[myancey]

This seems like a wholly unsubstantiated assertion.

Fair enough. After I raise the funds I'll attempt to conduct an extensive study on 3.5 D&D houseruling. You'll undoubtedly see it in some academic journal. :smallwink:

But seriously, this was covered above with the 5 bajillion posts dealing with opinion.

And yes, while there are obvious holes in the statements I've made, it does not mean they're entirely untrue. These statements accurately reflect my experience with houseruling vs. taking the time to research RAW.

[Salbazier]

The Wireless Troll

When away on a long journey, you leave some minions to guard your castle. They need a way to get in touch with you; unfortunately they're all low level losers and can't cast Sending. No problem! Easy solution - take a Troll finger with you, while your minions keep the rest of the troll captive and tied up. When they need to send you an urgent message, they slice the Troll into tiny pieces, smaller than a finger. Voila, the finger you're carrying is now the largest part of the Troll, and starts regenerating - so you know your minions have something important for you, and can cast Sending yourself.


Quantum teleportation/communication with troll!

Huh, teleportation is not a word according to spellcheck

BTW, this look less like 'easy exploit compendium' and look more like 'rule abuse compendium' or 'silly physics in DnD' thread

[dextercorvia]

Quantum teleportation/communication with troll!

Huh, teleportation is not a word according to spellcheck

BTW, this look less like 'easy exploit compendium' and look more like 'rule abuse compendium' or 'silly physics in DnD' thread

What is the difference between an exploit and an abuse?

[Salbazier]

What is the difference between an exploit and an abuse?

ehmm, yeah. Poor choice of words.Well, it just that stuffs like immortality by drowning or railgun horseback or troll entangelment is not exactly what I imagine when I read the OP :smalltongue:

[Siosilvar]

Normally you are unconscious when your Non-lethal damage of 0 is greater than your HP of -whatever. Rageclaws and similar are necessary to override that.

Continuing with the abuse... nothing says unconscious (and thus helpless) characters can't take actions either. "knocked out" has no rules definition, therefore it obviously has no meaning at all! :smallyuk: Since they're unconscious, the disabled rules don't apply either, because you specifically have to be conscious to be disabled!

Dying characters, however, specifically can't take actions, but that only applies from -1 to -9.

Blech. I can't believe I just wrote any of that.

[dextercorvia]

Continuing with the abuse... nothing says unconscious (and thus helpless) characters can't take actions either. "knocked out" has no rules definition, therefore it obviously has no meaning at all! :smallyuk: Since they're unconscious, the disabled rules don't apply either, because you specifically have to be conscious to be disabled!

Dying characters, however, specifically can't take actions, but that only applies from -1 to -9.

Blech. I can't believe I just wrote any of that.

Unconscious --> Helpless --> Dex=0 --> Paralyzed --> Can't move or act.

[Radar]

A bit more subtle exploit:
Live My Nightmare feat let's you attack anyone, who scries on you. The wording is, that you make a choice, whether to punish them or not - this means, you have to be aware of every successful scry attempt made on you. It's totally worth the exposore to Phantasmal Killer.

[The Winter King]

I have one.

Ever had a friend who died and you didnt want to spend the cash for a resurection? try Heal* out, it will bring you back from -10hp because nothing says the dead cant be healed.

*please note it must be Heal and not other healing spells as heal does not have the pesky "when used on a living creature" clause.

[Shadowknight12]

I have one.

Ever had a friend who died and you didnt want to spend the cash for a resurection? try Heal* out, it will bring you back from -10hp because nothing says the dead cant be healed.

*please note it must be Heal and not other healing spells as heal does not have the pesky "when used on a living creature" clause.

Sadly, "Dead" is a condition that Heal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heal.htm) does not cure.

[Lateral]

Sadly, "Dead" is a condition that Heal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heal.htm) does not cure.

Hmm... Is there a way to share your Iron Heart Surge with someone else? :smalltongue:

[Shadowknight12]

Hmm... Is there a way to share your Iron Heart Surge with someone else? :smalltongue:

There must be. I demand it to be so. BY CROM.

[The Glyphstone]

that could be risky - using IHS to end the condition "has a dead friend" could backfire horribly. Maybe it'll turn them into a zombie, or make them a dead enemy instead.

[Shadowknight12]

that could be risky - using IHS to end the condition "has a dead friend" could backfire horribly. Maybe it'll turn them into a zombie, or make them a dead enemy instead.

It could be even worse. It could address the root of the issue and make you forget absolutely everything about the guy. He is no longer your dead friend. He's just a dead nobody now.

[Lateral]

that could be risky - using IHS to end the condition "has a dead friend" could backfire horribly. Maybe it'll turn them into a zombie, or make them a dead enemy instead.

Well, 'dead' is a condition, and 'alive' is not, so 'alive' must be the default. So, if IHS can remove the 'dead' condition, he won't be dead anymore. Of course, it'll need to be combined with a heal, so that he won't immediately die again from being below -10 HP.

[The Glyphstone]

Well, 'dead' is a condition, and 'alive' is not, so 'alive' must be the default. So, if IHS can remove the 'dead' condition, he won't be dead anymore. Of course, it'll need to be combined with a heal, so that he won't immediately die again from being below -10 HP.

Yeah, but Iron Heart Surge is a personal effect. It can't end 'dead' because you aren't afflicted by 'dead', it's your friend who is 'dead'. All it can end is the condition 'my friend is dead', which has outcomes other than 'my friend is alive'.

[Flickerdart]

But what if the condition is "my friend isn't alive"?

[The Glyphstone]

But what if the condition is "my friend isn't alive"?

Same thing - it could end the condition by making him an enemy who isn't alive, or some random shmuck you care nothing about who isn't alive.

[Flickerdart]

Same thing - it could end the condition by making him an enemy who isn't alive, or some random shmuck you care nothing about who isn't alive.
The issue isn't that your friend is dead, though. The issue is that the condition (your friend is alive) is not met, and that's what you're IHSing away.

[Shadowknight12]

The issue isn't that your friend is dead, though. The issue is that the condition (your friend is alive) is not met, and that's what you're IHSing away.

He's saying that there are other conditions you could accidentally IHS away. Like that guy being your friend.

[Lateral]

Yeah, but Iron Heart Surge is a personal effect. It can't end 'dead' because you aren't afflicted by 'dead', it's your friend who is 'dead'. All it can end is the condition 'my friend is dead', which has outcomes other than 'my friend is alive'.

Well, yeah. That's why I was wondering if there was a way that you could figure out how to share your IHS with a friend, the way you can share spells with allies or something. Like, you IHS away being dead- it doesn't affect you, but it makes your ally not dead anymore since it affects him too. At least until he dies from being under -10, which is what Heal is for.

[Flickerdart]

He's saying that there are other conditions you could accidentally IHS away. Like that guy being your friend.
But your friend still isn't alive so that doesn't actually work.

[Shadowknight12]

But your friend still isn't alive so that doesn't actually work.

It worked. Because he is no longer your friend. If you said "That guy is dead" then sure, you'd have a better chance of it working. But "your friend" is something that can change. "Your friend is dead" is no longer true, because he's no longer your friend.

[Tokiko Mima]

I like that. :smallsmile:

"Nooooo!! My beloved wife Matilda is dead!!!"

*IRON HEART SURGE!*

"What is this falling from the sky...? Divorce papers?!?"

[Siosilvar]

Unconscious --> Helpless --> Dex=0 --> Paralyzed --> Can't move or act.

"Treated as" Dex 0 followed by the clarification "(-5 modifier)" could be interpreted that way, or that it's treated as dexterity of 0 for modifier purposes only.

[/devil's advocate] I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of suggesting that death effects don't kill you if you can survive below -10. As of core, there was no way to do that, and the interaction should be obvious - just replace -10 with -(whatever you die at).

Easy exploits, let's see... the Commoner Railgun is a common (no pun intended) one, and runs along the same lines as the horse one earlier, except each commoner readies an action to take an item from the person previous and pass it to the next.

Negative Levels for Everyone
Fell Drain + Sonic Snap = 1 negative level from a 2nd-level slot.
Fell Drain + Magic Missile + up to 5 targets = 1 negative level per target, from a 3rd-level slot.

For comparison, Enervation is a 4th level spell that gives 2.5 negative levels to a single target.

[Jack_Simth]

*please note it must be Heal and not other healing spells as heal does not have the pesky "when used on a living creature" clause.Doesn't have to. "Cannot benefit from normal or magical healing" is part of the Dead condition.

Easy exploit... has anyone mentiond doing the wight thing?
Find a critter with a source of negative levels that have the possibility of resulting in level loss (you may want to Command the critter for better control).
Get a single negative level from the critter
Voluntarily fail the Fort save against it becoming level loss.
This sets you at the half-way point between your prior level and your current level.
Do some crafting with the loose XP that implies.
Cast Restoration on yourself, restoring you to your previous level. Congrats: Almost-XP-Free crafting, for the cost of a Restoration spell and some funky shenanigans.

[Flickerdart]

It worked. Because he is no longer your friend. If you said "That guy is dead" then sure, you'd have a better chance of it working. But "your friend" is something that can change. "Your friend is dead" is no longer true, because he's no longer your friend.
The condition isn't "your friend is dead", it's "your friend is not alive". If he becomes an enemy, your friend is still not alive.

[Shadowknight12]

The condition isn't "your friend is dead", it's "your friend is not alive". If he becomes an enemy, your friend is still not alive.

"My friend is not alive" --> "That dude, who is not alive, is also not my friend" --> "Problem solved."

[Necroticplague]

Step1:Be a water elemental warblade.
Step2:Walk onto land.
Step3:Iron heart surge.
Step4:???
Step5:laugh

[Shadowknight12]

Step1:Be a water elemental warblade.
Step2:Walk onto land.
Step3:Iron heart surge.
Step4:???
Step5:laugh

I doubt we'll have time to get two of every animal on an arc by the time IHS resolves.

[dextercorvia]

Negative Levels for Everyone
Fell Drain + Sonic Snap = 1 negative level from a 1st-level slot.
Fell Drain + Magic Missile + up to 5 targets = 1 negative level per target, from a 2nd-level slot.

I like Fell Drain Hail of Stones, but my turn to nit pick you :smallwink:; Fell Drain is a +2 metamagic. Fortunately a human wizard with no flaws can take Metamagic School Focus alongside Fell Drain. If Dragon is allowed, there is also Easy Metamagic(Fell Drain).

[Siosilvar]

I like Fell Drain Hail of Stones, but my turn to nit pick you :smallwink:; Fell Drain is a +2 metamagic. Fortunately a human wizard with no flaws can take Metamagic School Focus alongside Fell Drain. If Dragon is allowed, there is also Easy Metamagic(Fell Drain).

+2? *checks*

...so it is.

Edit'd!

[Flame of Anor]

Easy exploit... has anyone mentiond doing the wight thing?
Find a critter with a source of negative levels that have the possibility of resulting in level loss (you may want to Command the critter for better control).
Get a single negative level from the critter
Voluntarily fail the Fort save against it becoming level loss.
This sets you at the half-way point between your prior level and your current level.
Do some crafting with the loose XP that implies.
Cast Restoration on yourself, restoring you to your previous level. Congrats: Almost-XP-Free crafting, for the cost of a Restoration spell and some funky shenanigans.

Ooh! And if you've got a cleric with 5 Restorations handy, you can cast 5 Wish spells in succession for a +5 inherent bonus!

[Jack_Simth]

Ooh! And if you've got a cleric with 5 Restorations handy, you can cast 5 Wish spells in succession for a +5 inherent bonus!
Doesn't actually work out so hot - they would have to be in "immediate succession" - however, he could, say, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, use the five scrolls of Wish to get you a +5 Inherent bonus.

[dextercorvia]

Shadow Landscape + Explosive Spell in a plains of forest setting will actually push all enemies that fail the reflex save several hundred feet.

[Flame of Anor]

Doesn't actually work out so hot - they would have to be in "immediate succession" - however, he could, say, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, use the five scrolls of Wish to get you a +5 Inherent bonus.

I always thought it meant, like, in the same day.



Shadow Landscape + Explosive Spell in a plains of forest setting will actually push all enemies that fail the reflex save several hundred feet.

Do I detect the locate city bomb's little brother?

[Divide by Zero]

Easy exploits, let's see... the Commoner Railgun is a common (no pun intended) one, and runs along the same lines as the horse one earlier, except each commoner readies an action to take an item from the person previous and pass it to the next.

By RAW, the commoner railgun only does damage according to the last commoner's thrown weapon stats. If you try to bring real-world physics into it, then the whole thing doesn't work to begin with.

[WinWin]

The level differential engine works better with the Assume Supernatural Ability feat and polymorph (death giant, barghest, redcap).

Can also work with racial hit dice and aquired templates, such as the extra hit dice gained by lycanthropes.

[Hiro Protagonest]

By RAW, the commoner railgun only does damage according to the last commoner's thrown weapon stats. If you try to bring real-world physics into it, then the whole thing doesn't work to begin with.

Die, catgirls, die!

[faceroll]

Or simply wish for Candle of Invocation (Lawful Evil), so you can later call an Efreet to get 3 more Wishes.

Make your wishes from a source that doesn't have to pay xp, like an efreet's SLA. Wish for a +1,000,000 sword and suit of armor. The only cost the wisher has to pay for when wishing for magic items are xp costs, and you just circumvented that. Cool, huh?


A bit more subtle exploit:
Live My Nightmare feat let's you attack anyone, who scries on you. The wording is, that you make a choice, whether to punish them or not - this means, you have to be aware of every successful scry attempt made on you. It's totally worth the exposore to Phantasmal Killer.

Better than that; any one who uses a divination effect on you. Detect Magic? Detect Evil? Everyone's gonna have bad dreams.


Hmm... Is there a way to share your Iron Heart Surge with someone else? :smalltongue:

"My friends cannot iron heart surge; this is a problem; I will end it by using IHS to grant them IHS."

[Jack_Simth]

I always thought it meant, like, in the same day.The exact wording is "in immediate succession" - near as I can tell, most DM's read that as "one right after the other, without delay"

[Siosilvar]

By RAW, the commoner railgun only does damage according to the last commoner's thrown weapon stats. If you try to bring real-world physics into it, then the whole thing doesn't work to begin with.

Which is why I made no mention of damage, only the fast-travel part.

[Flame of Anor]

Could someone explain just what Iron Heart Surge does? I get the feeling it's one of those things from Tome of Battle (which I don't have).

[Siosilvar]

Could someone explain just what Iron Heart Surge does? I get the feeling it's one of those things from Tome of Battle (which I don't have).
You'd be correct.

"When you use this maneuver, select one spell, effect, or other condition currently affecting you and with a duration of 1 or more rounds. That effect ends immediately." You also get a +2 morale bonus to hit for the next round.

The problem lies in that everything has a duration of 1 or more rounds, and "spell, effect, or other condition" is also (supposedly) ill-defined.

[Andorax]

Ok, I'm going to try my hand at this. One simple, one complex and likely flawed.

Clockwork Dragon:

The Mechanatrix (Fiend Folio, see Planetouched) is usually LN, mostly human looking, just has some sort of minor mechanical-looking trait.

They're healed 1/3 of any electrical "damage" they receive.

Dragonfire Adept (Dragon Magic) has, at 2nd level, the ability to use a Lightning Breath attack once a round.

A 2nd level character with the ability to heal up to full in just a few rounds time, all day long. It's not the only way to do it, but it's not a bad approach.




How I Learned to Quit Worrying About Hit Points:

Cleric 17th.

Endurance, Diehard, Extend Spell, Persist Spell (CA), Touch of Healing (CC)

Cast Delay Death (MiniHB) persisted as a 9th level spell. No bottom limit to the amount of damage you can take without dying, not forced into unconsciousness either.

Cast Shield Other on all other party members (17 hour duration). Suck it up and don't care.

Spend all the live-long-day after a fight healing everyone back up to half (Touch of Healing) their hit points, including yourself. Everyone else is still effectively at full hps (at half, but take half), and you don't care, period. For a big fight, actually heal people up above the halfway mark (until they have effectively double hps).

It only takes a handful of 2nd level slots, one 9th, and at least one spell that *could* be spontaniously cast as healing of 2nd level or higher held in reserve. Everything else can focus on mitigation, boosts, or butt-kicking.

Add Fiery Burst or Storm Bolt (CM) as reserve feats, and you have a nice supply of pain-bringing ongoing damage throughout the day.

The Fire Domain, coupled with Fiery Burst and memorizing Elemental Swarm as your 9th level Domain spell would provide that firepower (all-day 9d6 minifireballs).

Stormrage (CD) as a memorized 8th also works with Storm Bolt.

To extend the idea further, distribute these:

Retributive Amulet (56k - BOED)

For any given attack, the attacker takes half damage (Retributive Amulet), the PC takes 1/4, and I take 1/4.

I keep the other PCs up with just enough healing, and sustain them at 1/2 full hps freely after each fight (which functions as 2x their normal hps, since they only take 1/4 damage).

I ignore the damage to me, also restoring it to 1/2 my normal total after each fight (and taking damage off everyone, yes, but only 1/4 of the hits they're suffering).

[Divide by Zero]

Which is why I made no mention of damage, only the fast-travel part.

But then it wouldn't be a railgun :smallconfused:

[gorfnab]

Cheaper Resurrections
For just 1000gp a 9th level Cleric or Archivist can basically True Res someone (if you have the body and the death has occurred within Rounds/CL of the caster) with two spells from the Spell Compendium. Just cast Revenance, wait for the duration to end, and then cast Revivify. This leaves the target alive at -1hp and stable (easily fixed through cure spells) but with no loss of levels, xp, con, or spell slots (for the target anyways). It's definitely worth it for party members to buy scrolls of these two spells so that the divine casters of the party (or those with decent UMD chekcs) can "Res" them should the need arise. A scroll of Revenance should be 700gp and a scroll of Revivify should be 2125gp, fairly cheap for basically True Res.

[Siosilvar]

But then it wouldn't be a railgun :smallconfused:

It's still on a rail in the sense that there's a linear path, and I suppose it could be considered a gun because it has a "projectile" that travels along it.

Nitpicking semantics aside... it was originally called the Commoner Railgun, so that's the name I use for it.

Immunity to Weapons (arguable)
Starmantle Cloak is from the BoED and ridiculously expensive. It grants a DC15 Reflex save to halve damage when you're hit by a weapon.
Evasion lets you take no damage from a Reflex save for half.

This one gets shut down when you realize Evasion says "an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save".

[Vladislav]

Combat Crafting

According to the craft rules, the time to craft an item is directly proportional to its cost. Slings, clubs and quarterstaffs cost nothing, and can therefore be crafted in zero time right on the battlefield.

[Douglas]

Combat Crafting

According to the craft rules, the time to craft an item is directly proportional to its cost. Slings, clubs and quarterstaffs cost nothing, and can therefore be crafted in zero time right on the battlefield.
In that vein, Combat Magic Crafting:
In one of the Eberron books, there's a set of feats that reduce gold, xp, or time costs of magic item crafting. Each feat reduces one of the three costs by 25%. As originally printed, each feat had a footnote in the table that said they could be taken multiple times and stacked. A level 20 Artificer has enough bonus feats, combined with character level feats, to take each of these feats 4 times. End result: 0 gold cost, 0 xp cost, 0 time cost for all magic item crafting. Need Freedom of Movement? Here, just a second ago I made a ring that does that. Teleport? Have some boots. Need to completely bury an entire enemy fortress in an avalanche? Just get me above it, I'll craft a billion luckstones in the blink of an eye and the weight of all those stones combined will pummel everything into oblivion.

Sadly, errata removed the footnote.

[Hoboshank]

Ring Gate Motorboat
Seal off one side of the first ring and drop and tie the second to a rope. then drop the second off the side of the boat. The water pressure shoots the water out propelling the boat forward.

[Lateral]

Shadow Landscape + Explosive Spell in a plains or forest setting will actually push all enemies that fail the reflex save several hundred feet.

Do I detect the locate city bomb's little brother?

Hardly; it requires an 11th level spell slot. Plus, the Locate City bomb version that uses Explosive Spell doesn't work; you need the wight-pocalypse version, but that's not really a 'bomb', exactly.

[faceroll]

In that vein, Combat Magic Crafting:
In one of the Eberron books, there's a set of feats that reduce gold, xp, or time costs of magic item crafting. Each feat reduces one of the three costs by 25%. As originally printed, each feat had a footnote in the table that said they could be taken multiple times and stacked. A level 20 Artificer has enough bonus feats, combined with character level feats, to take each of these feats 4 times. End result: 0 gold cost, 0 xp cost, 0 time cost for all magic item crafting. Need Freedom of Movement? Here, just a second ago I made a ring that does that. Teleport? Have some boots. Need to completely bury an entire enemy fortress in an avalanche? Just get me above it, I'll craft a billion luckstones in the blink of an eye and the weight of all those stones combined will pummel everything into oblivion.

Sadly, errata removed the footnote.

That's also not how percents stack, either. Percents are an exception to stacking rules, in that they are explicitly multiplicative. It's why post-errata leap attack is so fabulous.

[Shalist]

Craft: Minting, where coins are used as the raw materials to make more coins.


Material Component

The original material, which costs the same amount as the raw materials required to craft the item to be created.

...pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials.

Forget 'wall of iron' or 'genesis,' with this, a level 10 wizard could be churning out millions of gold (or platinum) with every casting, and all he'd need is a single coin to get the ball rolling.


Gold is ~1200 pounds / cubic foot, platinum is ~1340...10 cubic feet / CL, so 600,000 gold / CL for gold, or ~670,000 platinum / CL for platinum, minus the 1/3 you started with as raw materials.

Also, you could probably use a variation of this to utterly devalue various precious stones (ie diamonds, rubies), so that someone would need several portable holes just to carry the "50 gold worth of diamond dust" needed for a simple spell :P

[Ksheep]

Ring Gate Motorboat
Seal off one side of the first ring and drop and tie the second to a rope. then drop the second off the side of the boat. The water pressure shoots the water out propelling the boat forward.

Except for the fact that Ring Gate specifically says "Up to 100 pounds of material can be transferred each day". So… you can shoot 12 gallons of water out. Hardly enough to jet your boat across the sea. However… it could work if you are on a plane with an extremely short day…

[Jack_Simth]

Ok, I'm going to try my hand at this. One simple, one complex and likely flawed.

Clockwork Dragon:

The Mechanatrix (Fiend Folio, see Planetouched) is usually LN, mostly human looking, just has some sort of minor mechanical-looking trait.

They're healed 1/3 of any electrical "damage" they receive.

Dragonfire Adept (Dragon Magic) has, at 2nd level, the ability to use a Lightning Breath attack once a round.

A 2nd level character with the ability to heal up to full in just a few rounds time, all day long. It's not the only way to do it, but it's not a bad approach.

Amusing. Definately not the only way to do it - especially as there's templates that'll outright give you fast healing for a similar LA.


How I Learned to Quit Worrying About Hit Points:

Cleric 17th.

Endurance, Diehard, Extend Spell, Persist Spell (CA), Touch of Healing (CC)

Cast Delay Death (MiniHB) persisted as a 9th level spell. No bottom limit to the amount of damage you can take without dying, not forced into unconsciousness either.

A couple of things... Delay Death was reprinted in Spell Compendium; in the Spell Compendium version, it's not available for Persisting, due to the variable range (Close). In the Miniatures Handbook version, some DM's will let it be persist-able, others not (not everyone considers Touch a fixed range). Also: Do note that this doesn't prevent the dying state, so you still fall unconscious (but there's ways to fix that, such as Beastland Ferocity or Favor of the Martyr).


Cast Shield Other on all other party members (17 hour duration). Suck it up and don't care.

Spend all the live-long-day after a fight healing everyone back up to half (Touch of Healing) their hit points, including yourself. Everyone else is still effectively at full hps (at half, but take half), and you don't care, period. For a big fight, actually heal people up above the halfway mark (until they have effectively double hps).

As you're getting Persistent Spell anyway, it's simpler to use Mass Lesser Vigor (Spell Compendium) for this. Saves you a feat, and remove the "max 1/2" clause, effectively doubling HP for the party.


It only takes a handful of 2nd level slots, one 9th, and at least one spell that *could* be spontaniously cast as healing of 2nd level or higher held in reserve. Everything else can focus on mitigation, boosts, or butt-kicking.

Reserve Feats require you actually have the spell prepared if you're a prepared caster - yes, you could cast it spontaneously; doesn't matter, as a Cleric is a prepared caster.


Add Fiery Burst or Storm Bolt (CM) as reserve feats, and you have a nice supply of pain-bringing ongoing damage throughout the day.

The Fire Domain, coupled with Fiery Burst and memorizing Elemental Swarm as your 9th level Domain spell would provide that firepower (all-day 9d6 minifireballs).

Stormrage (CD) as a memorized 8th also works with Storm Bolt.

To extend the idea further, distribute these:

Retributive Amulet (56k - BOED)

For any given attack, the attacker takes half damage (Retributive Amulet), the PC takes 1/4, and I take 1/4.

I keep the other PCs up with just enough healing, and sustain them at 1/2 full hps freely after each fight (which functions as 2x their normal hps, since they only take 1/4 damage).

I ignore the damage to me, also restoring it to 1/2 my normal total after each fight (and taking damage off everyone, yes, but only 1/4 of the hits they're suffering).
Further refinement: Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell). Makes this doable much, much earlier.

Oh yes, and Greater Dispel Magic becomes very, very fatal for you.

[BlueInc]

Not sure if anyone brought this thread up, but it deserves attention:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19911222/101_Silly_Engine_Flaws_the_DM_will_Laugh_at_and_Di scount

Personal favorite quote:


When fighting the final BBEG of a campaign we were at our wits ends of how to defeat him. He had DR 30/lawful and none of us had lawful-aligned weapons. In addition our power house (drunken master monk) kept having his weapons disintegrate in his hands due to the skin effect of the monster. We also had a lawful neutral dwarf monk who was a grappler and useless against the collosal BBEG.
Our Drunker Master, seeing no other choice, picked up the only remaining improvised weapon which would work, the dwarf. Seeing that the dwarf was lawful we now had a lawful aligned weapon.

[Flame of Anor]

How I Learned to Quit Worrying About Hit Points:

Wow...I'm totally stealing this. Except wait, no, it would only work for two other people because you have to wear a matched pair of rings. I don't suppose there's a Mass Shield Other? Still cool, though. And you don't even need to be 17th level with DMM.


In that vein, Combat Magic Crafting:
In one of the Eberron books, there's a set of feats that reduce gold, xp, or time costs of magic item crafting. Each feat reduces one of the three costs by 25%. As originally printed, each feat had a footnote in the table that said they could be taken multiple times and stacked. A level 20 Artificer has enough bonus feats, combined with character level feats, to take each of these feats 4 times. End result: 0 gold cost, 0 xp cost, 0 time cost for all magic item crafting. Need Freedom of Movement? Here, just a second ago I made a ring that does that. Teleport? Have some boots. Need to completely bury an entire enemy fortress in an avalanche? Just get me above it, I'll craft a billion luckstones in the blink of an eye and the weight of all those stones combined will pummel everything into oblivion.

Sadly, errata removed the footnote.

Pff, I didn't see any errata if you didn't. :smallwink: What book are those in?


Craft: Minting, where coins are used as the raw materials to make more coins.

O.O

...you've broken my brain.

[Jack_Simth]

Wow...I'm totally stealing this. Except wait, no, it would only work for two other people because you have to wear a matched pair of rings. I don't suppose there's a Mass Shield Other? Still cool, though. And you don't even need to be 17th level with DMM.
Ah, you can only wear two *magic* rings at a time. Mundane rings don't have that limit, and they're merely a focus for the spell, they're not themselves enchanted. So yes, you can do the entire party this way, if the tactic passes the other tests.

Including the one where some DM's consider the Spell Compendium to be errata for the assorted spells it contains....


O.O

...you've broken my brain.
Fabricate for any trade good has similar results. Linen is a popular choice: Made entirely from flax (a plant) you've got a very large volume to work with, and linen is a trade good, so it's usable as cash when you need more flax for your next casting.

[Flame of Anor]

Including the one where some DM's consider the Spell Compendium to be errata for the assorted spells it contains....


Which entry in the Spell Compendium is applicable here, and why?

[faceroll]

Here's another money-hack:
Buy mithril chain shirts for huge creatures. They cost 4400gp each, and weigh 125 lbs. Melt the mithril down into ingots, which you can then sell at the price of 500gp/lb, or 62,500gp/shirt.

[NNescio]

...should I mention the ten-foot pole ladders hack at this point?

('though this one can be handwaved away easier.)

[Flame of Anor]

...should I mention the ten-foot pole ladders hack at this point?

('though this one can be handwaved away easier.)

Ah, that's the one where you buy a ladder, take it apart, and then sell it as two poles for greater than its buying price?

[Jack_Simth]

Which entry in the Spell Compendium is applicable here, and why?

The Miniatures Handbook's Delay Death spell vs. Spell Compendium's Delay Death spell are substantially different - Cleric 3 vs. Cleric-4, standard action vs. Immediate action, Touch vs. Short range. But with the sidebar on page 4 of Spell Compendium ("... some material has been revised to 3.5..."), and the back cover of the Spell Compendium ("... and have been updated to include official errata...") there's a significant number of DM's that will not let you use the original version of spells when the Spell Compendium is in play.

[Amnestic]

The Miniatures Handbook's Delay Death spell vs. Spell Compendium's Delay Death spell are substantially different - Cleric 3 vs. Cleric-4, standard action vs. Immediate action, Touch vs. Short range. But with the sidebar on page 4 of Spell Compendium ("... some material has been revised to 3.5..."), and the back cover of the Spell Compendium ("... and have been updated to include official errata...") there's a significant number of DM's that will not let you use the original version of spells when the Spell Compendium is in play.

*shrug* Just requires you to use Ocular Spell (Lords of Madness) metamagic as well, it's still doable.

[NNescio]

Ah, that's the one where you buy a ladder, take it apart, and then sell it as two poles for greater than its buying price?

Yep. The standard handwave is that 10-foot poles with holes or price of wood jutting out of them aren't study enough to be 10-foot poles any longer. I prefer the "Adventurers are chumps who will pay 2sp for a 10-foot piece of wood" approach.

[Drako_Beoulve]

I saw someone that put a trap with cure light wounds in his sword:

"Resetting Touch Trigger Trap in handle, when handle is grabbed, a Cure Light Wounds spell is activated. Trap then Immidiatly Resets."

Is this posible?

Also, there is a feat that let you recover hp after a Maneuver successfuly strikes, can you start a fight with a tree or a door, etc and do maneuver until you are at full hp?

[Necroticplague]

Also, there is a feat that let you recover hp after a Maneuver successfuly strikes, can you start a fight with a tree or a door, etc and do maneuver until you are at full hp?
Most of the time, no, because the maneuvers/stances involved specify something about the enemy being an actual threat, but a few of them forgot this wording, so some of them can. I can't remember the offenders off the top of my head.

[Flame of Anor]

I saw someone that put a trap with cure light wounds in his sword:

"Resetting Touch Trigger Trap in handle, when handle is grabbed, a Cure Light Wounds spell is activated. Trap then Immidiatly Resets."

Is this posible?

Yes, until the DM hears about it. :smallwink:


Most of the time, no, because the maneuvers/stances involved specify something about the enemy being an actual threat, but a few of them forgot this wording, so some of them can. I can't remember the offenders off the top of my head.

Well, pick a fight with your team members! :smalltongue:

[Evil the Cat]

Here's an interesting question that might fit this thread. Can you use Polymorph any Object to turn a deal ally into a live ally?

It would be same kingdom, class, size, and related, so the duration would be permanent.

[Ksheep]

Here's an interesting question that might fit this thread. Can you use Polymorph any Object to turn a deal ally into a live ally?

It would be same kingdom, class, size, and related, so the duration would be permanent.

Except for the fact that Polymorph has no provision for returning the soul to the body, so it can't raise the dead, nor would it animate a polymorphed object, so you couldn't use it to make undead.

[Douglas]

I think PaO could return a dead body to life, but the result would be a default average member of the chosen race rather than the deceased person with all his class levels.

[faceroll]

Ring Gate Motorboat

ಠ_ಠ


Seal off one side of the first ring and drop and tie the second to a rope. then drop the second off the side of the boat. The water pressure shoots the water out propelling the boat forward.

Oh, and here I was thinking you were suggesting ways to make long distance relationships work.

Check the weight limit on ring gates. Your... outboard motor wouldn't last long.

[Necroticplague]

Step1:Be a water elemental warblade.
Step2:Walk onto land.
Step3:Iron heart surge.
Step4:???
Step5:laugh

And the sequel:
Step1:Vampire Warblade.
Step2:Belt of battle.
Step3:Take a step into the sun.
Step4:Activate belt of battle (2 charges for standard action).
Step5:Iron heart surge.
Step6:???
Step5:Laugh

[NNescio]

Next sequel:

Step 1: Be a living organic Warblade.
Step 2: Get a Wizard buddy.
Step 3: Teleport into space. (No, things don't just go kablooey in space, and suffocation takes some time.)
Step 4: Iron Heart Surge
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Laugh

[Shadowknight12]

Not nihilistic enough.

Step 1: Be an incorporeal warblade.
Step 2: Iron Heart Surge the Material Plane.
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Laugh.

[Necroticplague]

Not nihilistic enough.

Step 1: Be an incorporeal warblade.
Step 2: Iron Heart Surge the Material Plane.
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Laugh.

I'll one up this one

Step1:Be a ghost warblade
Step2:Iron Heart Surge
Step3:Manifest
Step4:Iron Heart Surge
Step5:????
Step6:Laugh

[Ksheep]

One problem I'm seeing with all these Iron Heart Surges… it says that the range is personal. Most DM's would probably say that it wouldn't effect the surrounding environment, so… yeah.

[Evil the Cat]

The SRD examples under PAO include turning a twig into a tree, and a wolf pelt into a wolf. The implication is that they are alive. It also states that it gains the mental abilities of the new form, so you wont wind up with a wolf that doesn't know how to be a wolf. The text says object or creature to object or creature. Undead may not work, as I'm not certain if they count as creatures, objects, or both. However, turning Bob's body into Bob seems reasonable. In theory, this may just give you a perfect copy of Bob, while the original Bob's soul is still off in the afterlife. Kill the new bob and enjoy the celestials' confusion!

Under the interpretation that it is a whole new Bob, he might only be level 1 though, so that could suck.

[No brains]

This is only an exploit in that it can slow a session to a halot while you think of a way to get out of a sticky situation.

Use a reach weapon and attack a large creature. One of the creature's squares is 10 feet away from you, the other is adjacent. Can you attack this creature? What if you attack into the square the creature occupies without expressly aiming for it? Is it a 50% miss chance?

[Lorolar]

Premise: Undead you command can follow basic commands such as "Kill anyone who enters this room but me" or similar.

This means that undead can follow commands like, if anyone enters this room kill them. This can be stated as "If X, then Y", hey presto we have ourselves a logic gate.

Next we take another zombie, actualy another couple hundred zombies (or wight, or whatever method you have used to produce arbitrary amounts of controlled undead) and we have them base their "if X, then Y" on each others actions. With enough Zombies we just built ourselves a computer.

The next step is to move this to our own private demiplane where time runs super fast. When you have a problem just planeshift there and punch it in to the "keyboard" (read, talk to your specially trained lich operator), so your computer can start solving.

So now we have created our undead supercomputer what to call it? I think Deep Rot.

[Shadowknight12]

I'll one up this one

Step1:Be a ghost warblade
Step2:Iron Heart Surge
Step3:Manifest
Step4:Iron Heart Surge
Step5:????
Step6:Laugh

You can't Manifest if you've Iron Heart Surged the Material Plane away. :smalltongue:

[RedWarrior0]

Premise: Undead you command can follow basic commands such as "Kill anyone who enters this room but me" or similar.

This means that undead can follow commands like, if anyone enters this room kill them. This can be stated as "If X, then Y", hey presto we have ourselves a logic gate.

Next we take another zombie, actualy another couple hundred zombies (or wight, or whatever method you have used to produce arbitrary amounts of controlled undead) and we have them base their "if X, then Y" on each others actions. With enough Zombies we just built ourselves a computer.

The next step is to move this to our own private demiplane where time runs super fast. When you have a problem just planeshift there and punch it in to the "keyboard" (read, talk to your specially trained lich operator), so your computer can start solving.

So now we have created our undead supercomputer what to call it? I think Deep Rot.
Supercomputer? Not quite, though I suppose if you rig the initiative count so that it always goes in order, you can have infinite * 6 flops.

You also can make a profit off it. Capitalism, ho!

[Popertop]

I know what Vow of Poverty is. What is "Embrace the Dark Chaos" and "Shun the Dark Chaos". Also, where are they from? What does that combo accomplish?

angst

and lots of it

[Flame of Anor]

The next step is to move this to our own private demiplane where time runs super fast. When you have a problem just planeshift there and punch it in to the "keyboard" (read, talk to your specially trained lich operator), so your computer can start solving.

So now we have created our undead supercomputer what to call it? I think Deep Rot.

No, I think the lich would be the creator of the computer. They don't tend to take orders very often.


angst

and lots of it

also, free feat reassignment.

[Jack_Simth]

also, free feat reassignment.
Do note that both Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos have an XP component....

[Ksheep]

XP Farm

1. Use Genesis to create a small demiplane with a greatly accelerated time frame.
2. Populate this demiplane with a low-HD, fast-spawning creature (kobold or goblin come to mind).
3. Leave the plane for a few hours so they can spawn.
4. Visit the plane, drop a couple AoE spells, kill off a fair number of them (leaving enough to continue spawning).
5. Rinse and repeat

Only problem is that the DM may deem it a low enough CR that you wont get jack squat for killing them… However, you could use this in an adventurers school, as training/grinding for new initiates. Just charge admittance.

[Jack_Simth]

Only problem is that the DM may deem it a low enough CR that you wont get jack squat for killing them… However, you could use this in an adventurers school, as training/grinding for new initiates. Just charge admittance.Not the only problem. NOT AT ALL.

After you've done this once or twice, the goblins get wise to it, and start XP farming each other. The next time you come back, you get blasted with a Fireball, a Flame Strike, a Baelful Polymorph, a Dominate Person, a Stone to Flesh, and a Dimensional Anchor from six casters of your level from the population you've been oppressing. And then the ubercharger melee brutes have at you.

[Ksheep]

Not the only problem. NOT AT ALL.

After you've done this once or twice, the goblins get wise to it, and start XP farming each other. The next time you come back, you get blasted with a Fireball, a Flame Strike, a Baelful Polymorph, a Dominate Person, a Stone to Flesh, and a Dimensional Anchor from six casters of your level from the population you've been oppressing. And then the ubercharger melee brutes have at you.

That's why you send in the low-level wannabe adventurers in first. If they don't come out in a matter of seconds, then you know that either A) the new guys were really week, or B) that you have a serious problem on your hands.

[Flame of Anor]

Not the only problem. NOT AT ALL.

After you've done this once or twice, the goblins get wise to it, and start XP farming each other. The next time you come back, you get blasted with a Fireball, a Flame Strike, a Baelful Polymorph, a Dominate Person, a Stone to Flesh, and a Dimensional Anchor from six casters of your level from the population you've been oppressing. And then the ubercharger melee brutes have at you.

And you'd deserve it, because keeping an imprisoned population of sentient beings to kill for your amusement would be an incredibly evil thing to do.

[Jack_Simth]

That's why you send in the low-level wannabe adventurers in first. If they don't come out in a matter of seconds, then you know that either A) the new guys were really week, or B) that you have a serious problem on your hands.
Won't always work. A few of them come out, and seem fine.

When you go in, you find out the hard way that they were suggested, dominated, simulacrum'd, mindraped, or just killed and replaced with Disguise / Illusion checks....


And you'd deserve it, because keeping an imprisoned population of sentient beings to kill for your amusement would be an incredibly evil thing to do.

Yeah, mass slavery and slaughter of intelligent critters for personal gain in knowledge of what you're doing is on the "evil" list by almost anyone's standards.

[WinWin]

Better off using the sacrifice rules from BoVD. Then use the harvested XP to make yourself a Thought Bottle.

[MammonAzrael]

Presenting "The Easy Exploit"

Play a druid. Take Natural spell.

:smallbiggrin:

[Necroticplague]

We can solve both the problems of the creatures you farm gaining levels to beat you and the ethical issues by using mindless creatures. Since the ability to reproduce would be preferred, we should use oozes.

[byaku rai]

Swarms could also potentially work, especially if you are using AoE spells. The trick is to find some with high enough CR to actually give you xp.

[RedWarrior0]

Presenting "The Easy Exploit"

Play a druid, wizard, or other T1 class.

:smallbiggrin:

Fixed that for you

[EagleWiz]

Infinite Items

Holly and Misletoe has no cost.
Or weight.


I dont know what the use of this is, but there has to be one

[Doc Roc]

Mind if I throw my ol' tattered hat in?

Old old old. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137447)

[Flame of Anor]

Mind if I throw my ol' tattered hat in?

Old old old. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137447)

That is awesome! I don't think the Bolt Spammer would work, though, because he couldn't reload.

[ThirdEmperor]

XP Farm

1. Use Genesis to create a small demiplane with a greatly accelerated time frame.
2. Populate this demiplane with a low-HD, fast-spawning creature (kobold or goblin come to mind).
3. Leave the plane for a few hours so they can spawn.
4. Visit the plane, drop a couple AoE spells, kill off a fair number of them (leaving enough to continue spawning).
5. Rinse and repeat

Only problem is that the DM may deem it a low enough CR that you wont get jack squat for killing them… However, you could use this in an adventurers school, as training/grinding for new initiates. Just charge admittance.

Er, can I run a campaign based on this? Cause it's amazing. Crazy wizard creates the most dangerous, lethal world he can imagine, uses it as a personal hunting ground. Old wizard has heart-attack. In the timeless Demi-plane that he created, someone finds the exit.

Also:
Holy Hand Grenade

Take leadership. Choose adepts for your followers. Purchase a large lake, have your adepts turn the entire lake into holy water. Purchase dust of dryness, use to absorb 100 gallons of holy water. Hurl at Demigorgon, watch as he takes over a thousand dice worth of damage.:smallamused:

[Ksheep]

Er, can I run a campaign based on this? Cause it's amazing. Crazy wizard creates the most dangerous, lethal world he can imagine, uses it as a personal hunting ground. Old wizard has heart-attack. In the timeless Demi-plane that he created, someone finds the exit.
Go right ahead. I think it would be a great hook for a campaign. I had thought of a similar thing a while back, with an enchanted who had access to a sealed off cave of (insert monster here). After he makes some items, he goes to the cave to stock up on "crafting supplies". While in the area, PCs come across one of the aforementioned monsters who has found a way out. PCs then make a choice: side with innocent monsters, or let immoral wizard continue plying his trade.

[Talakeal]

The Miniatures Handbook's Delay Death spell vs. Spell Compendium's Delay Death spell are substantially different - Cleric 3 vs. Cleric-4, standard action vs. Immediate action, Touch vs. Short range. But with the sidebar on page 4 of Spell Compendium ("... some material has been revised to 3.5..."), and the back cover of the Spell Compendium ("... and have been updated to include official errata...") there's a significant number of DM's that will not let you use the original version of spells when the Spell Compendium is in play.

The silly BoED magic items are also reprinted in nerfed form in the MiC.

[Necroticplague]

Craft the following magic item while outside your sanctum:
Sanctum ghost sound
Continuous
Cost to make=(-1xclx2000x4)/2=-4000xcl
Time to make=(-4000xcl)/1000=-4xcl

You have discovered both how to make gold from nothing, and how to travel back in time.

[Combat Reflexes]

Craft the following magic item while outside your sanctum:
Sanctum ghost sound
Continuous
Cost to make=(-1xclx2000x4)/2=-4000xcl
Time to make=(-4000xcl)/1000=-4xcl

You have discovered both how to make gold from nothing, and how to travel back in time.

If this works, you win the thread and my perpetual astonisment. Does Sanctum Spell specify anything about 'spell level can't be reduced below zero'?

[Necroticplague]

Does Sanctum Spell specify anything about 'spell level can't be reduced below zero'?

Nope, it doesn't (http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-2507-sanctum-spell.html).

[dextercorvia]

Is there a rule about spells below 1st going in that formula? All of the tables list a 1/2 value for 0 level spells, but I can't find the exception in the text anywhere.

Edit: this doesn't work because item creation is based on the slot required.

[veven]

Also:
Holy Hand Grenade

Take leadership. Choose adepts for your followers. Purchase a large lake, have your adepts turn the entire lake into holy water. Purchase dust of dryness, use to absorb 100 gallons of holy water. Hurl at Demigorgon, watch as he takes over a thousand dice worth of damage.:smallamused:


As awesome as this is, it's pretty expensive. Dust of dryness is 850gp, not bad. But bless water has an expensive material component, worth 25gp. To change 100 gallons (the capacity of dust of dryness) of water into holy water would cost an additional 20,000gp. Also I don't think adepts have bless water on their spell list.

[Hiro Protagonest]

As awesome as this is, it's pretty expensive. Dust of dryness is 850gp, not bad. But bless water has an expensive material component, worth 25gp. To change 100 gallons (the capacity of dust of dryness) of water into holy water would cost an additional 20,000gp. Also I don't think adepts have bless water on their spell list.

Yeah, they have bless, but not bless water. Hm...

Choose clerics for your followers!

[Shadowknight12]

Yeah, they have bless, but not bless water. Hm...

Choose clerics for your followers!

And don't do it on a lake. Do it inside a silver mine. Create Water and then Bless Water and then hit it with a Dust of Dryness.

[veven]

And don't do it on a lake. Do it inside a silver mine. Create Water and then Bless Water and then hit it with a Dust of Dryness.

There ya go, problem solved.

[Necroticplague]

Is there a rule about spells below 1st going in that formula? All of the tables list a 1/2 value for 0 level spells, but I can't find the exception in the text anywhere.

Edit: this doesn't work because item creation is based on the slot required.

The rule is that level 0 spells count as 1/2 a spell level. However, that rule only applies to level 0 spells, whereas we are working with a -1 level spell, which is not level 0. And also, the formulas specify "spell level", not spell slot used. Initial spell level is 0, -1 for sanctum spell outside of sanctum. Of course, I have been wrong about nitpicky terminologies like this before, so I may be wrong again.

[Jack_Simth]

Craft the following magic item while outside your sanctum:
Sanctum ghost sound
Continuous
Cost to make=(-1xclx2000x4)/2=-4000xcl
Time to make=(-4000xcl)/1000=-4xcl

You have discovered both how to make gold from nothing, and how to travel back in time.

You'll actually do better with wands, rather than custom items - see, with wands, it's extremely straightforward. With custom items, you specifically need DM approval. Wands net you 375 gp * caster level materials and 30 * caster level xp (and 0.75 days/cl, although with the way the time is written, it's "minimum 1 day" for crafting, so the time travel bit doesn't work).

[zmasterofjersey]

Buying 1 spell component pouch gives you infinite money.

The focus for detect thoughts is a copper piece, keep pulling them out until you are rich.

[Jack_Simth]

Buying 1 spell component pouch gives you infinite money.

The focus for detect thoughts is a copper piece, keep pulling them out until you are rich.

Sadly, the copper piece has a defined value, so you don't have an infinite number of them in your spell components pouch - similar to the potion of Bull's Strength for Tensor's Transformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transformation.htm).

[dextercorvia]

The rule is that level 0 spells count as 1/2 a spell level. However, that rule only applies to level 0 spells, whereas we are working with a -1 level spell, which is not level 0. And also, the formulas specify "spell level", not spell slot used. Initial spell level is 0, -1 for sanctum spell outside of sanctum. Of course, I have been wrong about nitpicky terminologies like this before, so I may be wrong again.

The rule for metamagic and items state that you use the higher spell level. Since most metamagic only changes slot, it is clear that this is what they are referring to. Otherwise, you could make scrolls of Persistent Shield (or whatever)for 25 gp. In fact, since it says you use the higher level, you would use that rather than slot. So if you free heighten something -- like with earth spell -- you still have to pay for the full effect in the item.


Magic Items and Metamagic Spells

With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand. Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell’s higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat).

[Flame of Anor]

the potion of Bull's Strength for Tensor's Transformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transformation.htm).

We're doing calculus now? :smalltongue:

[Combat Reflexes]

Here's another one.

You can't damage or break stone with a pick, because objects are immune to piercing damage. You can, however, break the stone using greatswords and halberds. :smallconfused:

This could easily be exploited. Now if I could only figure out how...

EDIT: Also, someone with Str 14 or higher (given enough time) would be able to destroy a stone castle wall ... with a wooden club. There are no rules for hitting something that's harder.

[Necroticplague]

Here's another one.

You can't damage or break stone with a pick, because objects are immune to piercing damage. You can, however, break the stone using greatswords and halberds. :smallconfused:


Odd, when I look at the SRD, I can't find anything about piercing damage and items.However, picks (assuming medium size) do 1d4 for light picks and 1d6 for heavy picks. Stone has hardness 8. Your average person is incapable of breaking stone with a pick. So if you want to do some REAL mining, bust out the Greatswords, Fullblades, and Minotaur War Hammers.

[Shadowknight12]

Odd, when I look at the SRD, I can't find anything about piercing damage and items.However, picks (assuming medium size) do 1d4 for light picks and 1d6 for heavy picks. Stone has hardness 8. Your average person is incapable of breaking stone with a pick. So if you want to do some REAL mining, bust out the Greatswords, Fullblades, and Minotaur War Hammers.

Houserule: Picks deal quadruple damage to stone. A light pick will deal 0 damage (in average) to the stone with every hit. A heavy pick will deal 4 damage instead. A Wall of Stone cast by a 20-level caster is 5 inches thick and has 75 HP per 5-by-5 square foot section. It would take over 75 hits, on average, with a light pick, and about 19 hits with a heavy pick to be reduced to rubble. Sounds about right.

[faceroll]

Er, can I run a campaign based on this? Cause it's amazing. Crazy wizard creates the most dangerous, lethal world he can imagine, uses it as a personal hunting ground. Old wizard has heart-attack. In the timeless Demi-plane that he created, someone finds the exit.

Gygax's Undermountain was pretty much this.

[Combat Reflexes]

Odd, when I look at the SRD, I can't find anything about piercing damage and items.

Voíla! (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Breaking_and_Entering#Smashing_an_Object)

Or: How I Discovered That A 20th-level Raging Barbarian With a +10 Scythe Can't Break A Simple Wooden Door (without a Strength check)

[Shadowknight12]

Voíla! (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Breaking_and_Entering#Smashing_an_Object)

Or: How I Discovered That A 20th-level Raging Barbarian With a +10 Scythe Can't Break A Simple Wooden Door (without a Strength check)

From the actual SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingAndEntering):


Generally, you can smash an object only with a bludgeoning or slashing weapon.

Emphasis mine.


Immunities
Objects are immune to nonlethal damage and to critical hits.

Even animated objects, which are otherwise considered creatures, have these immunities because they are constructs.

Curious, an absence of the words "piercing damage." Hmmmm. How strange.

[Flame of Anor]

Trade Your Familiar For +2 CL
If you're a good-aligned sor/wiz and you take the Aligned Spellcaster ACF from Dragon #357, all your spells that don't already have the [Evil] descriptor gain the [Good] descriptor. Then you can take Spell Focus: Good from BoED to get +2 save DC to all your [Good] spells.

[Zaydos]

Trade Your Familiar For +2 CL
If you're a good-aligned sor/wiz and you take the Aligned Spellcaster ACF from Dragon #357, all your spells that don't already have the [Evil] descriptor gain the [Good] descriptor. Then you can take Spell Focus: Good from BoED to get +2 CL to all [Good] spells.

No you get +2 to save DC to all [Good] spells. Quite a different, and IMHO better, effect. Now does Spell Focus (Good) stack with Spell Focus (Enchantment)? If so Human Enchanter with Spell Focus (Good), Vow of Non-Violence (3 feats thus far so would need a flaw or to be 3rd or higher level) and then start getting Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus (enchantment), +8 to save DC. Now all you'd need is a good way to dispel Mind Blank and to avoid undead, constructs, and vermin.

[Flame of Anor]

No you get +2 to save DC to all [Good] spells. Quite a different, and IMHO better, effect. Now does Spell Focus (Good) stack with Spell Focus (Enchantment)? If so Human Enchanter with Spell Focus (Good), Vow of Non-Violence (3 feats thus far so would need a flaw or to be 3rd or higher level) and then start getting Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus (enchantment), +8 to save DC. Now all you'd need is a good way to dispel Mind Blank and to avoid undead, constructs, and vermin.

You know, I was thinking DC, and I went and wrote CL. :redface:

[WinWin]

Better off aligning with Chaos.

You can then use Abyssal Specialist from DoTU (in addition to focused specialist).

Add in a little Chaotic Spell Recall, a feat from Fiendish Codex, your high level slots will then return as a swift action after being cast (number of times per day dependant on Abyssal Heritor feats).

Great way to extend your workday as a low level character. For example, a 1st level focused abyssal specialist wizard could have 3 spells per day, their chosen speciality including Chaos spells. They can also recall 2 of those spells after they are cast via Chaotic Spell recall. This does not factor in bonus spells from high intelligence.

[noparlpf]

Instant Crush Death from Stone Shape

While inside a cave or underground, you cast Stone Shape and have it make a 1 inch thick space between a 10 foot cubed stone above a monster you want to kill. The resulting stone that falls on the monster (if it failed it's reflex save) would do 12,096D6 damage. That is according to the damage caused by falling objects. Since a falling object does 1D6 damage per 25 pounds of weight. A 10 foot cube of stone would weigh about 302,400 pounds.

Then why does Transmute Rock to Mud specify only 8d6 damage if you cave in a ceiling, no matter what amount of rock you transmute to mud?


I have one.

Ever had a friend who died and you didnt want to spend the cash for a resurection? try Heal* out, it will bring you back from -10hp because nothing says the dead cant be healed.

*please note it must be Heal and not other healing spells as heal does not have the pesky "when used on a living creature" clause.

Don't dead creatures count as objects because they're now nonliving matter? Heal has to be cast on a creature.


Slightly more on-topic (although a week and a half after the last post, so a bit late), I saw an alternate "Commoner Railgun" that doesn't actually work anymore. Line up commoners, use Supreme Cleave.

[Jack_Simth]

I have one.

Ever had a friend who died and you didnt want to spend the cash for a resurection? try Heal* out, it will bring you back from -10hp because nothing says the dead cant be healed.

*please note it must be Heal and not other healing spells as heal does not have the pesky "when used on a living creature" clause.
Check the "Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dead)" condition:
The character’s hit points are reduced to -10, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character’s soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies. (emphasis added)

Mind you, it doesn't say anything about not being able to take actions ...

[Necroticplague]

Check the "Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dead)" condition:(emphasis added)

Mind you, it doesn't say anything about not being able to take actions ...

So Dead is a condition, and you can still take actions while under it? Hello, Iron Heart Surge!

[noparlpf]

So Dead is a condition, and you can still take actions while under it? Hello, Iron Heart Surge!

If you have Iron Heart Surge, you shouldn't be dead in the first place. Just negate the condition "I am capable of being injured". Gain DR infinite/--.

[Ksheep]

If you have Iron Heart Surge, you shouldn't be dead in the first place. Just negate the condition "I am capable of being injured". Gain DR infinite/--.

Or, you know, he'd just kill you. You can't get injured if you're dead. All damage stops at -10.

[noparlpf]

Or, you know, he'd just kill you. You can't get injured if you're dead. All damage stops at -10.

True. I guess Iron Heart Surge is like Wish in that you have the get a bloody lawyer in just to have what you want to happen happen.

Hmm..."I am capable of having hit points lower than my full normal hit points."
And then the DM says, "Okay, your full normal hit point total is changed to 1."

"My Dex score is not 5,000 and I don't have Improved Uncanny Dodge." Because then you're practically unhittable anyway, even by touch attacks.

[Ksheep]

"My Dex score is not 5,000 and I don't have Improved Uncanny Dodge." Because then you're practically unhittable anyway, even by touch attacks.

"OK, your DEX is 5000... and your STR is 0."

[sreservoir]

dead prevents actions because you are unconsious from having more nonlethal damage than hp.

this does make diehard and such useless, who uses those?

[noparlpf]

"OK, your DEX is 5000... and your STR is 0."

Darn those DMs. At least I could probably become a successful lawyer after a few games using Wish and Iron Heart Surge.

But for Str 0, you would at least need a plausible excuse. Have a colorless, scentless inhaled poison trickle into the room. "While under the effects of this poison, you may take no actions, not even mental actions or free actions. This includes taking actions while below 0 hit points."

It's easier to do these things when you're the DM. So obviously you should Iron Heart Surge away the condition that your player doesn't have equal standing with the DM. (Which does affect you. But first you need to become aware of the metagame.)

[Ksheep]

Darn those DMs. At least I could probably become a successful lawyer after a few games using Wish and Iron Heart Surge.

But for Str 0, you would at least need a plausible excuse. Have a colorless, scentless inhaled poison trickle into the room. "While under the effects of this poison, you may take no actions, not even mental actions or free actions. This includes taking actions while below 0 hit points."

It's easier to do these things when you're the DM. So obviously you should Iron Heart Surge away the condition that your player doesn't have equal standing with the DM. (Which does affect you. But first you need to become aware of the metagame.)

That's what the Self Aware Player Character PRC is for.

As for a plausible excuse... "You suddenly feel much more dexterous... but you slowly realize that all of your other abilities are being drained. It's as if the power you used to have is being funneled into DEX, leaving all your other abilities completely drained and at 0. You fall to the floor, unconscious, and in three comas."

[noparlpf]

That's what the Self Aware Player Character PRC is for.

As for a plausible excuse... "You suddenly feel much more dexterous... but you slowly realize that all of your other abilities are being drained. It's as if the power you used to have is being funneled into DEX, leaving all your other abilities completely drained and at 0. You fall to the floor, unconscious, and in three comas."

Three comas? That's quite a feat. I would have thought they would just combine into one super-coma.

Where is this Self Aware Player Character PrC?

[Divide by Zero]

dead prevents actions because you are unconsious from having more nonlethal damage than hp.

this does make diehard and such useless, who uses those?

Specific trumps general, and Diehard specifically says you can take actions at -1 to -9.

[Ksheep]

Three comas? That's quite a feat. I would have thought they would just combine into one super-coma.

Where is this Self Aware Player Character PrC?

Well, since it says you go into a coma once your INT, WIS, or CHA reaches 0, it makes sense that if all three got to 0, then you'd be in three separate comas.

Self Aware Player Character is in the third party Bride of the Portable Hole: The Book of Neurotic Fantasy , which in all honesty is a joke book. It brings you such things as the Paladin-Knight of the Secret and Bizarre Righteous Order of the Hokey Pokey, Self Aware Player Character, and a stated out Gazebo.

[noparlpf]

Well, since it says you go into a coma once your INT, WIS, or CHA reaches 0, it makes sense that if all three got to 0, then you'd be in three separate comas.

Self Aware Player Character is in the third party Bride of the Portable Hole: The Book of Neurotic Fantasy , which in all honesty is a joke book. It brings you such things as the Paladin-Knight of the Secret and Bizarre Righteous Order of the Hokey Pokey, Self Aware Player Character, and a stated out Gazebo.

I would just combine them into a single coma, but the single coma would be epic-level.

I figured it was a joke PrC. I'm going to try to find it though, it sounds amusing.

[Ksheep]

I would just combine them into a single coma, but the single coma would be epic-level.

I figured it was a joke PrC. I'm going to try to find it though, it sounds amusing.

Oh, it is. You get to force the DM to make a save whenever your character would die, where the DC is determined by the number of unresolved plot hooks associated with the character. As a bonus, YOU get to make the roll for the DM. Also, at 10th level, the character becomes real, moves into your house, drinks your beer, and steals your girlfriend.

[Zherog]

From the actual SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingAndEntering):


NITPICK ALERT!

The "actual" SRD is a series of RTF files published on WotC's website. d20SRD uses the OGL to republish those text files in a new (and better organized format). The site also incorporates errata (which, technically speaking, isn't OGL - though that doesn't matter too much). It also incorporates the Open Game Content from another book, Unearthed Arcana, but that material isn't actually in the SRD even though people often refer to as such since it's on that site.

OK, carry on. ;)

[Kaje]

Embrace the Dark Chaos is a spell that replaces any feat you have with an Abyssal Heritor feat that you qualify for. Shun the Dark Chaos replaces any Abyssal Heritor feat you have with any feat you qualify for. Combine the two, and you can completely reassign your feats without restriction.

Now do that with all the bonus feats from Vow of Poverty. Instead of having a bunch of near worthless bonus Exalted feats, you have the same number of the best feats you can find from all of D&D 3.5 that you qualify for. Oh, and since technically you gained these feats from spells, you keep them even if you swap out Vow of Poverty itself.

How about 2 levels of chameleon to get an abyssal heritor feat every day, which you then swap out with StDC. You gained those feats through spells, so you should keep them, yes? Repeat every day for a year.

[Hazzardevil]

This is one I got inspiration from with the fist full of manifester arrows.
And then I realised it wouldn't work.
Basically do fist full of manifester arrows with the Soulbows arrows or soulknife mind blade, that would mean when you can make them as a free action you can have an infinite amount of power points.

[Jack_Simth]

This is one I got inspiration from with the fist full of manifester arrows.
And then I realised it wouldn't work.
Basically do fist full of manifester arrows with the Soulbows arrows or soulknife mind blade, that would mean when you can make them as a free action you can have an infinite amount of power points.
Fistfull of Manifester arrows can get you a large number of them... if you don't mind limiting them all to 5 points. And yes, when trying it with the soulknife / soulblade, you've got some sharp limits that stop it from working:

1) "As usual, a psionic character cannot pay a power’s cost with power points from more than one source, so the power points in the weapon must be used for discrete manifestations" - right in the description of the Manifester (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/weapons.htm#manifesterWeapon) weapon property. Which means any manifestation from these "infinite power points" is limited to 5 pp.
2) There's an annoying clause in Bestow Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/bestowPower.htm) for use of this sort of thing to bypass such restrictions: "only power points generated by a psionic creature in the moment can be shared using bestow power." - so you can't give the power points from this method to yourself or another creature.
3) The Mind Blade Enhancement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/soulknife.htm#mindBladeEnhancement) class feature has a very specific list of things it can replace - and Manifester isn't on the list.
4) The Soulbow (from Complete Psionic, page 36) handles the enhacements with the same wording as the Soulknife's. Manifester isn't on the list.

Basically, this pretty much only works if your DM is not familiar with the material.

[Ksheep]

Basically, this pretty much only works if your DM is not familiar with the material.

How many DM's ARE familiar with psionics?

[Black_Zawisza]

Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos are spells from Feindish Codex 1. You replace any feat with an abyssal heritor feat with one spell, then replace an abyssal heritor feat with any other feat with a the second spell.

You effectively trade your free exalted feats from Vow Of Povery with any feat you qualify for. If you're feeling ornery, trade out Vow of Poverty as well, then demand full WBL from your DM.
Wouldn't you lose the Exalted feats, because you don't qualify for them without Vow of Poverty?

[Jack_Simth]

How many DM's ARE familiar with psionics?
Not all that many.
Why? Many DM's view Psionics as overpowered, and don't look at the material, simply forbidding it instead.
Why? Because a lot of people take advantage of DM's not being particularly familiar with how psionics actually work, and do things like blowing more power points than their current level on one manifestation, tricks like this, and so on.

[NNescio]

Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos are spells from Feindish Codex 1. You replace any feat with an abyssal heritor feat with one spell, then replace an abyssal heritor feat with any other feat with a the second spell.

You effectively trade your free exalted feats from Vow Of Povery with any feat you qualify for. If you're feeling ornery, trade out Vow of Poverty as well, then demand] full WBL from your DM.

Wouldn't you lose the Exalted feats, because you don't qualify for them without Vow of Poverty?

He traded those out already.

[dextercorvia]

How about 2 levels of chameleon to get an abyssal heritor feat every day, which you then swap out with StDC. You gained those feats through spells, so you should keep them, yes? Repeat every day for a year.

Just shuffle away feats gained from repeated casting of Heroics. Now you don't have to be Chameleon (although they are awesome). Or devote yourself to an Elder Evil.

[Metahuman1]

Just shuffle away feats gained from repeated casting of Heroics. Now you don't have to be Chameleon (although they are awesome). Or devote yourself to an Elder Evil.

Would the traded out feats go away when the Heroics spell wore off?

[Ksheep]

I don't think the Heroics version will work, since it says "For the duration of the spell, the subject can use the feat as if it were one of those the creature had already selected". This implies that they do not GAIN the feat, they can just use it as if they had gained it. There is no actual feat gained to be traded away, the spell just emulates the effects of the feat.

[dextercorvia]

I don't think the Heroics version will work, since it says "For the duration of the spell, the subject can use the feat as if it were one of those the creature had already selected". This implies that they do not GAIN the feat, they can just use it as if they had gained it. There is no actual feat gained to be traded away, the spell just emulates the effects of the feat.

That's what I get for posting from my laptop that doesn't have the books on it.

[Metahuman1]

Pity, that would have been an amazing trick.

[Metahuman1]

Here's a question: If you use phaerimm race too turn your Sorcerer spells into SLA's, How would that interact with the following things.

Reserve Feats

Mage of the Arcane Order

Item Familiar.

[Makiru]

Seeing all the IHS posts got me thinking:

Step 1. Be a Kaorti Warblade.
Step 2. Take off your armor.
Step 3. IHS away Material Plane Vulnerability.
Step 4. ???
Step 5. Laugh

Immediately, there are only a few possible outcomes I can think of, and only one that is kind of bad.

1. You are no longer affected by the material plane. Awesome sauce.

2. The Material Plane/world you're on gets sent to another plane. Bad if it's an Inner Plane, workable if it's an Outer Plane, near trivial if it's a Transitive Plane, epic win if it's the Far Realm, and "the DM didn't read the vulnerability right and is spiting you" if it's an alternate Material Plane.

3. You, and only you, get sent to another plane. See above.

4. You get teleported back to your cyst. Minor inconvenience at worst.

Now to sit back and wait for other people to poke holes in my statement and argue for pages.

[Devmaar]

Seeing all the IHS posts got me thinking:

Step 1. Be a Kaorti Warblade.
Step 2. Take off your armor.
Step 3. IHS away Material Plane Vulnerability.
Step 4. ???
Step 5. Laugh

Immediately, there are only a few possible outcomes I can think of, and only one that is kind of bad.

1. You are no longer affected by the material plane. Awesome sauce.

2. The Material Plane/world you're on gets sent to another plane. Bad if it's an Inner Plane, workable if it's an Outer Plane, near trivial if it's a Transitive Plane, epic win if it's the Far Realm, and "the DM didn't read the vulnerability right and is spiting you" if it's an alternate Material Plane.

3. You, and only you, get sent to another plane. See above.

4. You get teleported back to your cyst. Minor inconvenience at worst.

Now to sit back and wait for other people to poke holes in my statement and argue for pages.

Option 5. The material plane no longer exists. As you were on the material plane, neither do you. Well done.

[Makiru]

Option 5. The material plane no longer exists. As you were on the material plane, neither do you. Well done.

In which case, mission accomplished: Existence is nullified.

[Jack_Simth]

Option 5. The material plane no longer exists. As you were on the material plane, neither do you. Well done.
Option 6: You're suddenly encased in a semi-protective bubble of slime (in that you're not currently affected by your material plane vulnerability), which prevents you from moving, and evaporates over the course of a round. It's also highly caustic. Take 10d6 damage. No, no save. You asked for this, really....

[Makiru]

Option 6: You're suddenly encased in a semi-protective bubble of slime, which prevents you from moving, and evaporates over the course of a round.

OK, that one sucks.

[Jack_Simth]

OK, that one sucks.Not as bad as the edit, but yes.

If you're trying to pull shenanigans like that, and for some odd reason the DM isn't the type to simply say "you're being a jerk, stop it" or equivalent, such things are supposed to come your way.

[dextercorvia]

Just shuffle away feats gained from repeated casting of Heroics. Now you don't have to be Chameleon (although they are awesome). Or devote yourself to an Elder Evil.


I don't think the Heroics version will work, since it says "For the duration of the spell, the subject can use the feat as if it were one of those the creature had already selected". This implies that they do not GAIN the feat, they can just use it as if they had gained it. There is no actual feat gained to be traded away, the spell just emulates the effects of the feat.

Hey, you forgot to quote the first line:


The heroics spell temporarily grants the
subject a feat from the fi ghter’s bonus
feat list.

That's the one that makes it actually work.


That's what I get for posting from my laptop that doesn't have the books on it.

That's what I get for doubting myself.


Would the traded out feats go away when the Heroics spell wore off?

No. The spell grants you a feat. You trade away the feat. When the duration expires you stop having the feat you no longer have. This is just the selling the Mount trick on steroids. There shouldn't be a problem so long as the casting time for EtDC is less than 10 min/level.

[erikun]

Yeah, but Iron Heart Surge is a personal effect. It can't end 'dead' because you aren't afflicted by 'dead', it's your friend who is 'dead'. All it can end is the condition 'my friend is dead', which has outcomes other than 'my friend is alive'.
Here's an idea I just had, along the same lines.

Speak with Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) can be cast on a corpse that has been dead for any length of time. You may ask it a question, allowing it to "answer". Ask it a question along the lines of, "Will you show me your Iron Heart Surge maneuver?"

The corpse has all the knowledge it did when the character died, including knowledge of any maneuvers. The key here is that the corpse "answers" the question rather than specifically speaking the answer to the question; showing the Iron Heart Surge maneuver would be an appropriate answer to the question.

The corpse uses Iron Heart Surge, the 'dead' condition is removed, and the character is brought back to life. No diamonds, no XP costs, and available as a 3rd level spell.

Exploitative enough? :smallwink:


So now we have created our undead supercomputer what to call it? I think Deep Rot.
I'm pretty sure I could craft and animate a difference engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Difference_engine) easier than that, and with better processing power.

[Amnestic]

The corpse uses Iron Heart Surge, the 'dead' condition is removed, and the character is brought back to life. No diamonds, no XP costs, and available as a 3rd level spell.


Indeed, except for the whole "must be able to use a standard action" part, of which a corpse is decidedly not able to do so. Because it's dead.

[erikun]

Indeed, except for the whole "must be able to use a standard action" part, of which a corpse is decidedly not able to do so. Because it's dead.
There is nothing stating how long (or how short) the actions the corpse can take. Note that a corpse cannot take free actions either, such as talking - because once again, it is an object.

The spell specifically allows it to act otherwise, including giving it whatever actions needed to respond.

[Douglas]

Indeed, except for the whole "must be able to use a standard action" part, of which a corpse is decidedly not able to do so. Because it's dead.
Right, now show me where it says dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dead) characters can't take actions.

There is a RAW argument for being unable to take actions when dead, but it involves bringing in 2 or 3 other rules and combining them all.

For another death related exploit, In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how she died, has -10 hit points. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#deathAttacks) Now open Magic of Incarnum to page 83 and read the Rageclaws soulmeld. Get that and invest 1 point of essentia in it. You can now act normally at -10 hit points. This negates the combination of rules I mentioned above that prevents acting while dead. Congratulations, you can now defy death by simply ignoring its downsides. You're still dead, but it doesn't stop you from continuing your adventuring.