View Full Version : The Vanguard Class & Lightning Fox Discipline

2011-06-24, 03:44 PM
Class has been entirely rewritten. Please check this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13098583) instead. Thanks.

2011-06-24, 07:21 PM
it's spelled "straight"

My first instinct is to lower the movement speed bonus and give them an air walk ability at some point (covered in Discipline?).

First 2 levels net 5 feats. They may be weak, but that's a staggering dip to meet reqs. I would move Endurance down a few levels. I'd say get rid of it entirely but it's the logical lead-in to Dauntless. Perhaps somewhere between 5 and 8, considering Rangers can get it at 3. I'd also completely ditch dodge/mobility and go straight for spring attack.

Once again, I'm bias, but I'd rather see Pouncing Spring Attack ban charging and focus on a hit-and-run character.

Losing all maneuvers for being knocked prone is harsh. I also feel like, with stuff like the instant-stand skill tricks in complete scoundrel for example, it's thematic for a character like this to hit the ground rolling, never really coming to rest. That either means I'd like to see them lose the Prone restriction (even the move action to stand is a kinetic thing) or I'd like to see a class feature that alleviates being prone (outside of being outright immune, which is not only very high level, but also rather heavy-handed). Something like "can take an immediate action to instantly stand" could be used to avoid maneuver loss.

2011-06-26, 07:56 PM
Thanks for the spelling correction.

RE: giving so many bonus feats, you're right that it's a lot. But they are really cruddy feats, they're a perfect fit for the class, and and I think that feats like Die Hard and Elusive Target are way under used because their pre-reqs are so bad. But perhaps you're right and I need to space things out more. For now I'll move up the second stance that you gain from 2nd to 3rd level, and I'll revisit the issue when I'm done writing up the Lightning Fox Discipline. Thanks.

2011-06-27, 06:14 AM
I... Always thought of a Vanguard as some armoured defender...

That's all, really. I love mobility things. Though I have to say this class may be a bit too fast.

2011-07-05, 08:55 PM
My first thought with the feats was "Holy ****, that's a lot of feats!" and then my second was "...Why isn't he using Expeditious Dodge? :smallconfused: This guy runs everywhere, he'll actually activate that on a regular basis..."

2011-07-05, 10:14 PM
Regardless of the name (which is appropriate in my opinion, a Vanguard isn't heavily armored it is the advance unit of an armed force and often a scout unit), this is a mighty awesome class if you ask me. I love it.


Maneuvers Readied: The Vanguard begins every combat with no maneuvers readied. At the start of his first turn as a Free Action he may ready one maneuver of his choice. At the start of each of his subsequent turns a Free Action, the Vanguard may ready one additional maneuver of his choice for every 30 feet that he has moved since the start of his last turn of this combat, up to a maximum of 1/2 his highest initiator level (minimum one, maximum ten). For example, a 6th level Vanguard would ready zero additional maneuvers if he moved less then 30 feet since the start of his last turn of this combat, one if he moved from 30-55 feet, two if he moves from 60-85 feet, and three if he moves from 90 feet or more. At the end of each combat and whenever the Vanguard is rendered Prone, Immobile, Helpless, or Dead, he loses all readied maneuvers. The Vanguard may not ready a maneuver if it was readied or used since the start of his previous turn.

Only the Vanguard's purposeful land based movement and jumping during combat counts toward this determination. Movement that results from the Vanguard being mounted, carried, bull rushed, attacked, riding a vessel, flight, swimming, interdimensional travel (such as Dimension Door or Teleport), or similar circumstances do not count towards the number of maneuvers the Vanguard may ready. The Vanguard cannot ready maneuvers before an encounter starts. His abilities are based on both mental and physical momentum, which rely on an awareness of real and immediate danger to build up and use.

If the Vanguard has or later gains maneuvers from any other source, then those maneuvers are also readied using this determination.

This is incredibly too restrictive. Unless of course you're aiming to be less powerful than other martial adepts. If you wish to keep the kinetic feel to readying maneuvers that's okay, but I would urge you to allow any willing movement to count toward readying maneuvers. Do you have any good reason why climbing, swimming, flying, or riding doesn't count?

I would suggest replacing this mechanism with something a bit more traditional and then lowering the fast movement to a max of +60ft. Give them a normal allotment of maneuvers readied which they ready exactly like other martial adepts and then make their recovery based on moving a given distance.

Something like this would be appropriate in my opinion:

"A Vanguard may recover his maneuvers during any turn in which he willingly moves at least 30ft under his own power. If he moves at least 30ft in a round he may spend a standard action to recover all of his maneuvers. If he moves at least 60ft in a round he may spend a swift action to recover all of his maneuvers. If he moves at least 90ft in a round he recovers his maneuvers as a free action."

Also, might I suggest ye olde Save the Princess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169078) discipline for this? File the Mario serial numbers off and it should be a perfect fit mechanically.

2011-07-05, 11:05 PM
Prior to getting freedom of movement at 18th level, I'd like to see some ability to break out of entangle, slow, and grapples, especially magical effects. Parkour is a nice idea in this direction, but it's kinda lame how easily even a low-level wizard caster could shut down a vanguard with a simple entangle, web, or black tentacles.

Also, somewhere between Dauntless and Instant Velocity, I'd expect to see immunity to bull rushes and other forced movement.