Advancing Psionic Character with Spellcaster PrC

[Yorae]

I've been sure that there was a rule or variant out there somewhere that lets you do this -- Say you're a psion and you start taking levels of Eldritch Knight or somesuch, using 3rd level powers to meet the 3rd level spells requirement and the +1 casting of an arcane spellcasting class to instead advance your manifesting class. Any time an effect utilizes a spell slot, instead use powerpoints = spell level*2 -1.

I know I can't just be making this up, but I can't for the life of me remember where I read/saw it. Thought it might be in EPH or CP in one of the sections about magic-psionics transparency (strongly applied in our settings - psionics IS magic), but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[Psyren]

I only know of specific PrCs that let you do this (e.g. Anima Mage and Daggerspell Mage), not a blanket rule of any kind. Transparency itself does not extend to PrC progression.

[Yorae]

I only know of specific PrCs that let you do this (e.g. Anima Mage and Daggerspell Mage), not a blanket rule of any kind. Transparency itself does not extend to PrC progression.

Is this because those classes require "Arcane Caster level 5th", rather than "Ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells" (daggerspell mage doesn't explicitly say it allows psionics)? If so, does that mean this works like Warlocks?

[Divide by Zero]

Is this because those classes require "Arcane Caster level 5th", rather than "Ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells" (daggerspell mage doesn't explicitly say it allows psionics)? If so, does that mean this works like Warlocks?

No, they both list psionics as an option in the Adaptation section.

[Psyren]

(daggerspell mage doesn't explicitly say it allows psionics)?

Actually it does - CAdv, pg. 32.

[Lateral]

The mindbender has rules for it, too, and it's just as good as the Telepathy ACF is at 20th level for the cost of a dip and some prerequisites versus your level 5 bonus feat. So, it's better for most intents and purposes.

[Yorae]

Actually it does - CAdv, pg. 32.

Ah, totally didn't see that.
Well then.. are there any full BAB manifester PrCs that aren't Illithid Slayer?

[Psyren]

Ah, totally didn't see that.
Well then.. are there any full BAB manifester PrCs that aren't Illithid Slayer?

Just Sanctified Mind from Lords of Madness. Pathfinder War Mind is too, but only for Psywars.

Another option is to focus on natural attacks, as your BAB won't matter then.

Or you can allow 3rd-party - Ghostbreaker from Hyperconscious is also full BAB/manifesting.

[Yorae]

Just Sanctified Mind from Lords of Madness. Pathfinder War Mind is too, but only for Psywars.

Another option is to focus on natural attacks, as your BAB won't matter then.

Ah, neat. Sanctified Mind actually works fairly for what I have in mind (wow bad pun), even if its abilities are still a little overly specific. If I can convince my DM that transparency allows Cleansing Strike / Disrupting Blow to work on magic users as well, then its not too shabby.

[Psyren]

@ Yorae - I think I found that ruling you mentioned. A particularly liberal reading of Psi-Like Abilities makes them equivalent to SLAs; this allows you to enter SLA-requiring PrCs like Paragnostic Apostle. I don't personally agree with this reading (although PAs make flavorful psions) and even if you get in, nothing in the text actually makes these classes advance your manifesting, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.

I do have a bit of good news for you though. Psions have another WotC PrC with full manifesting and full BAB, one that I missed all this time - the heavily praised Abjurant Champion, which has a psionic adaptation on CM pg. 52. Between that and Sanctified Mind you should be set without needing 3rd-party.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The only problem I see with the Abjurant Champion Psionic Adaptation is that AFAIK there isn't a direct equivalent psionic discipline for Abjuration, so it might need a bit more work.

[Yorae]

Ah, neat. Sanctified Mind actually works fairly for what I have in mind (wow bad pun), even if its abilities are still a little overly specific. If I can convince my DM that transparency allows Cleansing Strike / Disrupting Blow to work on magic users as well, then its not too shabby.

Actually, there's also a variant listed under the adaptations block of Abjurant Champion too, with Arcane Boost instead consuming an equivalent amount of PP. Awesome, don't have to lose a manifester level. =D

Should probably change the name, though... Psychokinetic Champion?
Is there a psionic equivalent to Shield? I know Inertial Armor for Mage Armor, but I wasn't sure if there was a Shield.

Edit: Wow, super double swordsaged... in the middle of the night... by two people who happened to be reading the same book. o_O

[Dusk Eclipse]

I was reading CMage, cause I am building a gish myself :smalltongue:; and Force Screen is the equivalent of Shield if my memory works,

[Yorae]

I was reading CMage, cause I am building a gish myself :smalltongue:; and Force Screen is the equivalent of Shield if my memory works,

Indeed it is, and it is also Psychokinesis.
Swift Psychokinetics is likely to be somewhat more powerful that Swift Abjuration, though, I think. I'd have to look and see what's available.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well yes; but RAW Psychokinesis is the equivalent of Evocation >_> <_<

[Yorae]

Well yes; but RAW Psychokinesis is the equivalent of Evocation >_> <_<

Oh... umm... Hrmn.. and there's no direct equivalent to Abjuration. Psychokinetic powers that don't deal damage?
Come to think of it, Abjuration is a really weird school.

Edit: Looks like Inertial Armor, Force Screen, and Dispel Psionics are all Psychokinesis.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Oh... umm... Hrmn.. and there's no direct equivalent to Abjuration. Psychokinetic powers that don't deal damage?
Come to think of it, Abjuration is a really weird school.

Yep, perhaps Psychokinesis, but needing to spend Psionic Focus and only psionic focus for the quickening?

[Hirax]

Schools are pretty awkward metagame abstracts. You have some things that are more clearcut as far as divination, transmutation, illusion, and to a lesser extent (imo) necromancy, bout outside that it gets very murky.

[Psyren]

Just apply the benefits to Psychokinesis wholesale. It's not like Abjuration doesn't have blasting spells of its own, even if Kinetic Champions would end up better at that particular tactic.

(I always thought Evocation and Abjuration should have been combined anyway.)

[Yorae]

Just apply the benefits to Psychokinesis wholesale. It's not like Abjuration doesn't have blasting spells of its own, even if Kinetic Champions would end up better at that particular tactic.

(I always thought Evocation and Abjuration should have been combined anyway.)

Truth. I'll have to investigate and see if there are any awesome psychokinetic powers to use with the Kinetic Champion class features, since I'm a bit less familiar with powers than spells.

[Psyren]

Truth. I'll have to investigate and see if there are any awesome psychokinetic powers to use with the Kinetic Champion class features, since I'm a bit less familiar with powers than spells.

The Psion Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238.0) gives a rundown on most of the powers. Obviously you'll want to approach the list from a gish standpoint though, but the utility ones are definitely spot-on.

[Yorae]

The Psion Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238.0) gives a rundown on most of the powers. Obviously you'll want to approach the list from a gish standpoint though, but the utility ones are definitely spot-on.

Awesome, thanks!

[Hazzardevil]

The problem with psionics is that they were designed to replace casters, they did this by making most prestige classes lose manifester levels, which is considered unacceptable in high op games.
So your stuck in a trap, do you prestige out and lose manifester levels?
Or do you stay pure?
And frankly it's difficult to find arcane prestige classes that can esily be converted and work well.

[Lateral]

The problem with psionics is that they were designed to replace casters, they did this by making most prestige classes lose manifester levels, which is considered unacceptable in high op games.
So your stuck in a trap, do you prestige out and lose manifester levels?
Or do you stay pure?
And frankly it's difficult to find arcane prestige classes that can esily be converted and work well.

They weren't designed to replace casters at all; they were made as an alternate system of... well, for lack of a better word, magic, that could be used with regular magic. It was also better balanced, which accounts for having most PRCs usually lose a caster level. It's also usually only one or two, so it really doesn't hurt that much.

[dextercorvia]

A very liberal reading of the Magic Mantle ability would allow PrC's that aren't arcane or divine specific to advance psionics. The prevalent view is that the ability is intended to replicate transparency, but the text is worded weird, and it actually says something different.