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CommodoreCrunch
2011-06-24, 11:18 PM
So I had a few questions. First: I have a potential build that is Barbarian 4/Fist of the Forest 3/Frostrager 5/Bear Warrior 8. I was wondering how the unarmed damage bonuses from the Frostrager interact with existing unarmed damage. I know that FotF increases unarmed damage along the Monk's progression if you already have unarmed damage exceeding what FotF gives you. Would Frostrager's in-rage unarmed bonuses act similarly? If not, would the bonus from FotF look at my new base unarmed damage while raging and increase it accordingly? If a reference to it's actual base damage is needed, assume 20th level with Supreme Unarmed Attack; so 2d10.

Secondly: Same build. At level 20 I have BaB of +20, giving me four attacks. Add three from the two-weapon fighting chain for seven. Bear Warrior adds two claws and a bite. FotF adds a bite. Now, I know I can't use ALL of these attacks in one full attack. The way I figure it, I can use at least my four main-hand unarmed attacks (not sure about the off-hand attacks) by declaring them as a primary natural weapon. (Reference here:http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070403a) I could then use one of my claws (the other claw would be used for my primary attacks) as a secondary attack and one of my bites as another secondary attack.

So:
What happens with my off-hand attacks in the above routine? If I can use my other claw as my off hand attacks, can I proceed to use one of my other two claws (rear paws) for my natural claw attack? Vice versa?
Can I opt not to use a claw as my primary weapon and declare my head as one for my unarmed attacks, since Chapter 8 of the PHB states that unarmed attacks can be made with punches, kicks, headbutts, etc, then use my two claws as secondary weapons along with my bite? Would I still need to declare an "off-hand" in order to use my off-hand attacks? Would headbutting as a bear interfere with my bite attack?
I can't use the bite from bear and the bite from FotF in the same full attack unless I have two mouths, correct?

I know it's a lot and probably a bit confusing, but that's why I had to ask in the first place. :P So any help will be greatly appreciated.

The Rabbler
2011-06-24, 11:32 PM
long post:So I had a few questions. First: I have a potential build that is Barbarian 4/Fist of the Forest 3/Frostrager 5/Bear Warrior 8. I was wondering how the unarmed damage bonuses from the Frostrager interact with existing unarmed damage. I know that FotF increases unarmed damage along the Monk's progression if you already have unarmed damage exceeding what FotF gives you. Would Frostrager's in-rage unarmed bonuses act similarly? If not, would the bonus from FotF look at my new base unarmed damage while raging and increase it accordingly? If a reference to it's actual base damage is needed, assume 20th level with Supreme Unarmed Attack; so 2d10.

Secondly: Same build. At level 20 I have BaB of +20, giving me four attacks. Add three from the two-weapon fighting chain for seven. Bear Warrior adds two claws and a bite. FotF adds a bite. Now, I know I can't use ALL of these attacks in one full attack. The way I figure it, I can use at least my four main-hand unarmed attacks (not sure about the off-hand attacks) by declaring them as a primary natural weapon. (Reference here:http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070403a) I could then use one of my claws (the other claw would be used for my primary attacks) as a secondary attack and one of my bites as another secondary attack.

So:
What happens with my off-hand attacks in the above routine? If I can use my other claw as my off hand attacks, can I proceed to use one of my other two claws (rear paws) for my natural claw attack? Vice versa?
Can I opt not to use a claw as my primary weapon and declare my head as one for my unarmed attacks, since Chapter 8 of the PHB states that unarmed attacks can be made with punches, kicks, headbutts, etc, then use my two claws as secondary weapons along with my bite? Would I still need to declare an "off-hand" in order to use my off-hand attacks? Would headbutting as a bear interfere with my bite attack?
I can't use the bite from bear and the bite from FotF in the same full attack unless I have two mouths, correct?

I know it's a lot and probably a bit confusing, but that's why I had to ask in the first place. :P So any help will be greatly appreciated.

about the secondly, I thought it was that you designate one of your natural attacks to be your primary and you get all of the iterations of your primary natural attack. then, you get one secondary attack for each secondary attack method you have, unless you have multiattack. I always get multiattack for my kung-fu pandas (FotF+Bear Warrior).

also, I don't think you get off-hand attacks/iteratives if you use secondary natural attacks.

Keld Denar
2011-06-25, 12:56 AM
Google my guide on brilliant gameologists. "Natural Weapons and You: A Miniguide".

Basically, you take all of your UASs, both main and offhand, then you get to make one natural attack with each unoccupied natural weapon. Since and UAS can be made with any part of your body, it doesn't interfere with your natural weapons. Unfortunately, since you only have one mouth, you only get one bite attack, whichever has higher damage.

WRT FotF and Frostrager, they don't interact. Frostrager is completely overwritten by FotF. Just ignore that whole part. It is still worth it for 1-2 Punch and Rend, though, plus the other benefits.

Drop some Bear Warrior levels and pick up Warshaper 4. You won't be sorry.

CommodoreCrunch
2011-06-25, 09:24 AM
Google my guide on brilliant gameologists. "Natural Weapons and You: A Miniguide".

Basically, you take all of your UASs, both main and offhand, then you get to make one natural attack with each unoccupied natural weapon. Since and UAS can be made with any part of your body, it doesn't interfere with your natural weapons. Unfortunately, since you only have one mouth, you only get one bite attack, whichever has higher damage.

WRT FotF and Frostrager, they don't interact. Frostrager is completely overwritten by FotF. Just ignore that whole part. It is still worth it for 1-2 Punch and Rend, though, plus the other benefits.

Drop some Bear Warrior levels and pick up Warshaper 4. You won't be sorry. Haha! Warshaper looks wonderful, for this and in general. Disappointing that FotF and Frostrager damage doesn't stack, but Frostrager certainly is worth it for so much more, especially the fact that I'll be rampaging around as an angry bear coated with ice. And it's good to know that I'll be able to use most of my attacks on a full attack. Only trouble is that many DMs would give me a look if I tried to take Lion Totem Barbarian, from a thematics standpoint.

Thanks for the help. Hopefully I'll find a cushy DM to throw this at, tears can be so delicious.