Human Shields with Grappling

[Dragon Star]

So my D&D group is a little lose on the rules. We don't use confirm rules on crits, we let some bonuses that don't stack stack, and most special rules in combat, like bull rush and grapple and even AOOs are usually ignored. But when we do use them we follow the rules.

Last session, we were playing a pretty hard encounter, one that got two of us below 0 HP before we won. At the end, our Mage was grappled and pinned before any of us could get to him. When I, the assassin/rogue (the DM let me be neutral) got to him to try sneak attack the guy grappling him, the enemy readied an action. So when I attacked him he pushed the Mage in the way of the attack. The DM said it he released him from grapple, but he described it as rolling over and holding the Mage up where he had been. I got a reflex save to not hit him (which I made) but I wanted to know if it was possible in the first place. Not that I think that the DM should only follow the rules. He is the DM. But I do want to know if it can be done.

[Shadowknight12]

Nothing lets you specifically do that exact thing. However, I would question the grappler's ability to ready an action when you're ostensibly preoccupied with grappling someone. I'm a bit fuzzy on whether that's possible at all.

[herrhauptmann]

Well there is a chance of actually hitting your own buddy when attacking into grapple. Did the DM roll that percentile dice when you weren't looking?
If so, then he was being nice to give you that reflex save to not hit your own friend.

[Dragon Star]

Well there is a chance of actually hitting your own buddy when attacking into grapple. Did the DM roll that percentile dice when you weren't looking?
If so, then he was being nice to give you that reflex save to not hit your own friend.

No, I know about that, but he said that because the mage was pinned not grappled he would let me skip that. When i asked him how he could have done it, he said he had an action readied.

[Autopsibiofeeder]

Hummm...weird situation. I would say, in order to ready an action, you have to be not-taking-an-action. But he was acting, he was maintaining the pin, I presume? If I would have to come up with a mechanic for this (because I am not sure there is one) I would require the grappler to win a grapple check at a really big penalty (perhaps even up to -20) in order to translate his pin into a 'treat wizard as object/shield'. But only if I would have to, I don't think I would use/allow this myself.

[Dragon Star]

Hummm...weird situation. I would say, in order to ready an action, you have to be not-taking-an-action. But he was acting, he was maintaining the pin, I presume? If I would have to come up with a mechanic for this (because I am not sure there is one) I would require the grappler to win a grapple check at a really big penalty (perhaps even up to -20) in order to translate his pin into a 'treat wizard as object/shield'. But only if I would have to, I don't think I would use/allow this myself.

That's what I thought. The worst bit was the DM said it was "releasing him from a grapple" which really doesn't make sense.

[Lateral]

'Course, you made that save and this way the mage is no longer grappled; don't argue a decision that's already in your favor. :smallwink:

[Dragon Star]

'Course, you made that save and this way the mage is no longer grappled; don't argue a decision that's already in your favor. :smallwink:

I wasn't arguing the decision, I was wondering if the action was possible.

[herrhauptmann]

Probably not, by the rules. But since he did it, you're now entitled to do the same thing. :) Of course, he might let that be a one-time only thing after you've done it to him once.

[Tvtyrant]

I made a custom monster once that was a Troll/Kyton that could throw people it grappled at other members of the party; sometimes as a DM you need to do things that aren't in the rules to make a concept work.

[Gabe the Bard]

Yup, you can't ready an action while you're grappling, since you're already taken an action by maintaining the grapple. And if your release the person you're grappling, then you can't use them as a human shield. The reflex save is kind of odd, since that's mostly for avoiding traps and explosions.

It's a neat idea, though. You could make it into a feat, maybe something that requires shield proficiency as a prerequisite. But at best, I would say that it grants you Cover, since the human shield is resisting you and they're probably no larger than a tower shield if they're medium size, or a heavy shield if they're small size. The attacker would roll percentile dice for a miss chance twice: 50% for attacking into a grapple, and 20% for Cover. If the attacker misses either, they would hit the human shield instead of the target.