How much would a dire bat mount cost?

[Seharvepernfan]

If I add the warbeast template, its only 350gp, but that seems too cheap for a flying bat that you can ride.

[Amphetryon]

If I add the warbeast template, its only 350gp, but that seems too cheap for a flying bat that you can ride.

Dire Bats shouldn't cost anything more than being able to get an Animal Companion (lots of ways to do that), so 350gp is probably about right.

If the nature of the campaign where this comes up is such that it would seem overpowered, you may wish to take that into consideration, of course.

[Coidzor]

A Heavy Warhorse is about 400 gold. So it's competitive with Heavy Warhorse, so... I've no real problem with that. Might bump it up to around 400-500 but not past that...

[holywhippet]

?? Can a warbeast dire bat actually carry you? The dire bat has 17 strength, I think warbeast adds 3 giving you a strength of 20. The maximum for a light load at 20 STR is 133 lb. A human varies from 125 to 250 lb, and that's without any load at all. Flying creatures can't fly if they are carrying more than a light load.

[Amphetryon]

?? Can a warbeast dire bat actually carry you? The dire bat has 17 strength, I think warbeast adds 3 giving you a strength of 20. The maximum for a light load at 20 STR is 133 lb. A human varies from 125 to 250 lb, and that's without any load at all. Flying creatures can't fly if they are carrying more than a light load.

I answered assuming the rider in question was either natively small/tiny or had a way to get there for the duration of any rides.

[IthroZada]

The same book that has Warbeast, also has the War Bat, for the Desmodu. It has a strength score of 25.

[Ajadea]

The dire bat is Large, and therefore can carry up to 266 lbs as a light load. Should be enough for a Medium character, if you are particularly light and do not carry much gear.

[holywhippet]

I answered assuming the rider in question was either natively small/tiny or had a way to get there for the duration of any rides.

I figured it could be done - if the rider was light themself (halflings and gnomes being good candidates) and if they didn't have much equipment, or kept it in a bag of holding. I'm not sure what the opening poster was planning to play as though.


The dire bat is Large, and therefore can carry up to 266 lbs as a light load. Should be enough for a Medium character, if you are particularly light and do not carry much gear.

Hmm, does that actually work by RAW though? That doubling of weight capacity for large creatures is for bipedal creatures. Bat's do have two legs I suppose, but they are stunty little things.

[IthroZada]

Hmm, does that actually work by RAW though? That doubling of weight capacity for large creatures is for bipedal creatures. Bat's do have two legs I suppose, but they are stunty little things.

It works, they use two limbs to move, their wings. If they had four wings, they would even be considered quadrupeds and get x3.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051025a

[Coidzor]

Hmm, does that actually work by RAW though? That doubling of weight capacity for large creatures is for bipedal creatures. Bat's do have two legs I suppose, but they are stunty little things.

Well if you wanna count them as quadrapeds.... But just saying they count as medium creatures for carrying capacity just sounds off.

[holywhippet]

Well if you wanna count them as quadrapeds.... But just saying they count as medium creatures for carrying capacity just sounds off.

Honestly it sounds about right to me. Their legs are very large or strong since their main way of getting around it using their wings. On top of that, it takes more strength to fly with a load than it does to just carry it along the ground.

[Thurbane]

I believe the RAW is that any large creature (that isn't specifically a quadruped) has x2 the carrying capacity of an equivalent Strength medium creature. This would apply even if the creature had no limbs (snake, ooze etc.). Large quadrupeds are the specific exception to this rule, and instead of x2 capacity, get x3.

[Coidzor]

Honestly it sounds about right to me. Their legs are very large or strong since their main way of getting around it using their wings. On top of that, it takes more strength to fly with a load than it does to just carry it along the ground.

Yes, that's why they are limited to flying with only light loads unless they take a feat to be able to do it with a medium load.

[IthroZada]

I believe the RAW is that any large creature (that isn't specifically a quadruped) has x2 the carrying capacity of an equivalent Strength medium creature. This would apply even if the creature had no limbs (snake, ooze etc.). Large quadrupeds are the specific exception to this rule, and instead of x2 capacity, get x3.

Actually, creatures that use their whole body in the movement, like snakes, are considered quadrupeds.
Edit: Considered quadrupeds for the purpose of the x3, nothing else.

[Requiem_Jeer]

Keep in mind, Dire bats are both slow (only 40ft. move, for a mount that is awful) and isn't worth much in a fight (+7 1d8+7 is pretty bad), although it's pretty tough and some exotic armor and magic items would only improve this. most DMs could also slap you with penalties for daytime use, given bats are nocturnal. Plus, you're not going to be riding one of those bastards in heavy armor.

[Thurbane]

Actually, creatures that use their whole body in the movement, like snakes, are considered quadrupeds.
Edit: Considered quadrupeds for the purpose of the x3, nothing else.
Well, that makes a certain amount of sense. Can you point me to where they spell that out in the rules?

[IthroZada]

Well, that makes a certain amount of sense. Can you point me to where they spell that out in the rules?

I actually didn't find it in a book, so I suppose you could disregard it if you like, but it certainly works. It's one of the "Rules of the Game" web articles.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051025a


For purposes of carrying capacity, creatures that literally use their whole bodies to move, such as snakes and fish, also should be treated as quadrupeds

[Seharvepernfan]

Im DMing a 10th level adventure, one of my players is playing a swordsage and wants to know how much a dire bat costs because he wants to ride one. I figured he could because he is light and doesnt carry much. I just didn't know how much to make them.

[IthroZada]

Im DMing a 10th level adventure, one of my players is playing a swordsage and wants to know how much a dire bat costs because he wants to ride one. I figured he could because he is light and doesnt carry much. I just didn't know how much to make them.

Arms and Equipment lists Dire Bat young as 150gp, and their training as 100gp. I guess add the Warbeast cost onto both of those, and you might have a price.

Edit: Actually, considering that the Warbeast template includes the training, maybe just that on top of the young price, if even that. Your original cost might be the most accurate.

[Ernir]

If I add the warbeast template, its only 350gp, but that seems too cheap for a flying bat that you can ride.

It's a cheap way to fly, sure. It's also not a very good one, if it's an ECL 10 character you're talking about. 4HD creatures die very easily in CR 10+ fights. :smalleek:

[holywhippet]

Depends if he wants to actually enter battle on it - probably not if he's a swordsage since melee characters aren't very effective flying above the battlefield.

If he did want to enter battle with a flying mount, he'd be better of trying to get a wyvern.

[hamishspence]

The feats for flying with medium and heavy loads are in Races of the Dragon- so if the DM allows you to buy a specimen with those feats, it may help.

[Ravens_cry]

I would also vary the price based on supply and demand. In most D&D worlds, such a creature is probably a rare commodity, so the price should reflect that. Where you can buy it is another question. I doubt many towns would have a Big Bobs House of Big Bats.

[hamishspence]

True- they might only be present in societies where they fill the "horse" niche.

Desmodu society, in the Underdark, for example. You might find a "Bob's House of Bats" or nearest equivalent, there, or in regions that regularly trade with them.

[Ravens_cry]

True- they might only be present in societies where they fill the "horse" niche.

Desmodu society, in the Underdark, for example. You might find a "Bob's House of Bats" or nearest equivalent, there, or in regions that regularly trade with them.
And the getting could be an adventure all its own.
Heck, the great Celtic epic Táin Bó Cúailnge was about cattle rustling with a lot of impotence jokes thrown in.

[Cog]

Your Swordsage might actually be interested in the Wild Cohort feat (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a). It scales with level, so he can actually ride the creature into combat, and Swordsages do just fine with mounted combat, given their freedom to make strikes instead of full attacks.

There's a precedent for giving no-prerequisite feats in item form; been a while since I've looking, but I think they tend to be in the couple-thousand gp range. You're paying a few times the cost up front, but now you don't have to buy a new mount after every couple of encounters...