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RebelRogue
2011-06-27, 10:20 AM
Hi all. In our game we have a rotating DM scheme, and it's my turn now, so I'd like you to critique my ideas for the upcoming story arc and perhaps help with a few ideas. We're playing D&D 4e, paragon level, but this is not intended to be particularly edition specific (even though some of the cosmology details may be, but it's non-standard anyway); it's more about the overall ideas.

It all takes place in a 'floating island cosmology', which I've previously posted about in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192796). As I've also stated in that thread, few things have set in stone during the campaign so far, but I have some pretty solidified ideas by now.

Cosmology

In case you didn't want to read that whole thread, here's the 'short' version of the cosmology as I intend it (ok, it's rather long, but it's also pretty much the basis of my ideas, so... here it is). The campaign so far, has been taking place on a falt, floating island. We've never actually been to the edge, but everything suggests, that you may 'fall off' the world. Otherwise it's a relatively normal D&D world. My idea is, that there are multiple such 'islands' all connected to a yet unformed Prime Material Plane - this is essentially a prequel to the 'normal' cosmology. Some (such as the one the campaign has taken place on so far) float in the Astral Sea, while others (yet to be seen) hang down into the Elemental Chaos:
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss144/rebelrogue_bucket/cosmology.png
There are other 'islands' (such as the canon realms) that are farther away from the unformed Prime and unconnected to it. It is my thought, that the connected realms are the ones that will eventually determine the nature of the new Prime (all of this is somewhat inspired by the MSPA Homestuck webcomic for those who know it, with the crazyness turned a bit down).

Things I need here: A good name for the unformed Prime, something suggestive, yet not too revealing.

So how did this all come about: At the moment, I'm thinking som ancient creatures predating the Gods and Primordials made the multiverse with the intention of the epic battle for what will eventually become reality. These aren't really intended to play a major role, though I've toyed with the idea of giving them some crazy Far Realm origin - 'Let's make a fun multiverse to eventually tear down' or something like that. But again, I'm not sure how much this will factor into actual play.

Things I need here: Again, a good name. I'm thinking 'Old Ones' as a homage to BECMI D&D.

So how does the islands influence the 'Unformed Prime'? Over time, the overall things that develop happen on a given island slowly puts its mark on the new universe. So if an island happens to be dominated by, say, dwarves then the new universe will gradully shape itself so that beards, ale and rock is of importance. Of course there's a lot of islands, so there's a lot of inputs. However, at a certain point in time (now!), a 'hero' is born on each of the connected islands. These 'heroes' has the option of critically modifying the new universe in a major way, but in order to do so they must quest for a special 'holy' place on their home island - a dangerous place (probably created by the Old Ones) well hidden, and guarded by numerous dangerous beasts (a dungeon essentially). Initially, these 'heroes' aren't marked and don't look or feel special in any way, save perhaps for examination from the mightiest of divination magics. But in time, their roles become clearer and more obvious, attracting the attention of those who might be interested in molding the new reality to fit their needs (se factions below). And yes, this is more Homestuck inspiration, BTW :smallsmile:

Things I need here: More naming... 'heroes' is obviously a bad terminology. Heirs? Shapers? Again, I need something suggestive, that won't spoil it all at once.

The story so far

All of this has little to do with what has actually happened in the campagin so far (mostly because they are my ideas and I haven't DMed yet :smallwink:), so here's a recap. Hailing from a small town, members of the city guard has went through a number of adventures, outlawing themselves in the process and getting involved in a major conflict over the 'island'. The major antagonist in this struggle (which has taken up the majority of the last years play) turned out to be a powerful orc witch with a Shadowfell theme (think Baba Yaga as an orc, and you've got the picture; she was even named Baba Rydenkov) who led a large coalition of evil creatures (vampires, goblins, gnolls, dragonborn air pirates! - I kid you not and I've probably forgotten some!) The kicker is, that she was the mother of a half-orc fighter PC, a sergeant of the city guard named Vanya. This PC was actually retired when we found this out, but he eventually returned (along woth other retired PCs) at the climax of the arc as shadow-controlled enemies. Eventually, we liberated them of this shadow influence and Vanya (and the others) turned on his mother, eventually killing her in the form of a giant eldritch monstrosity thingie (or at least banished her to the Shadowfell - it's not 100% clear). A broken man (or half-orc, I guess), Vanya walks into the wilderness, hoping for nothing but a death in meaningless battle with monsters, troll slayer style. This is pretty much where the campaign in now.

What now?

My basic idea is this: Vanya is in fact the 'hero' of the current island! He has yet to realize this, but his mother Baba Rydenkov, being a powerful witch, certainly has (maybe she even nudged him in this direction during pregnancy with powerful ritauls?) Her schemes to take over the 'world' and releasing the evil Shadow god into it was but a preparation for letting his son shape the New Prime into her own twisted, nightmarish vision. The special, 'holy' place where Vanya may achieve this is located deep in the belly of the floating island, i.e. the Underdark. I'm thinking it's pretty much located at the very 'bottom' where the island thins out into cord connecting to the Prime.

The PCs must somehow realize these things, probably not grasping the full picture. They must search for Vanya, eventually finding him dead or half-dead from a heroic battle, and taking him to the Underdark 'temple'. However as the characters reach the place (and wonder exactly what to do with a (half) dead 'hero' there). From there I've got a wild idea of a githyanki raid in which Vanya is kidnapped/stolen somehow, leading to an airship chase/journey before a showdown in Tu'narath (I imagine that the lich queen Vlaakith has deviced a ritual which may somehow extract the 'heroic essence' from Vanya, thus making her able to shape the new universe). But all of that is but ideas and far in the future, so we'll see.

I should note, that the PCs have access to two flying airships (that may also travel the Astral Sea/Elemental Chaos) - one build by the Avenger PC (the previous DMs PC) and one captured from the dragonborn pirates. Also, in case anybody wonders, I've also checked with the guy who played Vanya in the first place, and I'm pretty much free to use him as I wish.

'Factions'... and an artifact?

I'm thinking of associating certain cosmic factions to each PC to 1) nudge them into the right direction as sources of information and 2) create subtle conflicts of interest between players to facilitate RP. Surely, the creation of a new reality will interested a lot of various entities! Here's my initial ideas:

- The Avenger acts on behalf of the gods - maybe he has recieved instructions in a vision?
- The Warden will be urged by the dwarf character she grew up with (also a retired PC - a Seeker) to help assure the primal spiritual world will be a part of the new reality - though he will probably be unsure about what is actually happening himself.
- The Infernalock has her evil, hellish masters... pretty obvious.
- Finally, the bard likes his drama/theater stuff, so there's no obvious cosmic party to tie him to, but I've got an idea: Let him find an artifact previously owned by Baba Rydenkov (the witch) - the artifact's major goal is for 'heroes' to fulfil their goals of influencing the new Prime, reaching their 'holy' place and so on. Proabably made by the Old Ones, to ensure that the Prime gets shaped into something interesting, but caring little about the actual details. This may also be the reason Baba Rydenkov was so hellbent on all of this in the first place. This should fit well with his ideas of drama being important.

Things I need here: What kind of item is appropriate as the artifact? It should ideally be something usable by both a witch and a bard but still retain some alien quality (if it's really made by the Old Ones). What powers should it grant?

First session

Before the first session as a DM, I'll probably shoot the players (except the bard) a PM regarding their association with the factions mentioned above. This should keep it a little more 'secret'. For the actual session, I'm planning to let the PCs investigate the crashed airship of the dragonborn pirate lord, which also held Baba Rydenkovs private quarters; there's an evil presence there, according to the priests, so the PCs must investigate. After gaining access to her cabin, a battle with a guardian ensues (I'm thinking somthing along the lines of a refluffed, beefed up version of the Crystal Guardian from the boss compendium (http://edanet.com/goober/Boss_Compendium.pdf). After the fight, clues to the nature of what is really going on should be found (and the bard should find the artifact, which is bound to be interesting :smallamused:)

Things I need here: Ideas for interesting ways to provide clues. Some elements of it should be obvious to move the players on with the plot, but others could be more subtle.

And beyond...

Thanks for reading this far. It's turned into quite a wall of text :smalleek: In short, if you've got any comments, further ideas or suggestions of any kind, they will be highly appreciated! :smallsmile:

DabblerWizard
2011-06-27, 12:43 PM
A cosmos in the making. This sounds interesting.

There are a lot of angles to consider here, but I'll stick with flushing out the eventual formation of the material plane... First I'll summarize what I hear you saying, OP, then I'll provide some questions you might consider answering.

--- From what I gather, the prime material plane is being formed by a series of floating islands (that need a cool name) that are all connected to the prime plane.

First of all... Connections to the Prime. How does this work? Is there a literal tunnel that burrows to the Prime? What would a being need to do to travel to the Prime, right now?

How much of the Prime is there right now? Is there a flat grass land with nothing but air and clouds? etc. Maybe there are already creatures there, leading their own lives, oblivious to the rest of the cosmos? If so... is anyone aware of the cosmos to the point where they might want to travel to the Islands?

--- Alterations to the prime plane come from two sources. Slower changes come about as a result of influences from the Islands. Faster more dramatic changes could come about as a result of accessing the Holy place on the respective island.

How does a change translate over from the Island to the Prime? Do specific kinds of things literally "copy" over to the Prime at various intervals? Is there something about "number" that has to do with this change? For instance, if dwarves shaved their beards, would new dwarves popping on the Prime now have no beards as well?

It sounds like there needs to be a clear list of things that will and will not translate from these islands to the Prime. This might help you structure what changes your players can eventually make too. Perhaps ideas, and memories move over faster than actual clothes or tools or hair styles.

What if something on the Islands is LOST every time a "copy" is made with the Prime. Perhaps every first child on the Islands "dies", and literally travels to the Prime as part of a new population?

--- Astral and Elemental planes surround the prime and the islands.

How do these two sources influence the Prime, the Islands, their interaction, their eventual outcomes?

RebelRogue
2011-06-27, 07:16 PM
A cosmos in the making. This sounds interesting.

There are a lot of angles to consider here, but I'll stick with flushing out the eventual formation of the material plane... First I'll summarize what I hear you saying, OP, then I'll provide some questions you might consider answering.

--- From what I gather, the prime material plane is being formed by a series of floating islands (that need a cool name) that are all connected to the prime plane.

First of all... Connections to the Prime. How does this work? Is there a literal tunnel that burrows to the Prime? What would a being need to do to travel to the Prime, right now?
I imagine some kinds of large tubes made of... well I'm not really sure. Ectoplasm, as in solid ether (I've played a lot of BECMI :smallbiggrin:). Mayb with just a slight hint of something slowly moving inside...

I haven't really decided if it's possible to travel to the prime yet. You can surely travel to the outisde of it by airship/spelljammer/whatever, but actually getting inside? Haven given it too much thought I must admit. As for the physical appearance of the Prime, my thought was that it was at least quasi-opaque, making it hard to look in (or out).


How much of the Prime is there right now? Is there a flat grass land with nothing but air and clouds? etc. Maybe there are already creatures there, leading their own lives, oblivious to the rest of the cosmos? If so... is anyone aware of the cosmos to the point where they might want to travel to the Islands?
Again, I haven't given this too much thought. I guess some basic features have formed and it is indeed an intriguing possiblilty that sapient life is already there. If so, they must be intrigued by the influx of matter, ideas and so on. The idea of them wanting to travel outside is interesting! I might include that somehow.


--- Alterations to the prime plane come from two sources. Slower changes come about as a result of influences from the Islands. Faster more dramatic changes could come about as a result of accessing the Holy place on the respective island.

How does a change translate over from the Island to the Prime? Do specific kinds of things literally "copy" over to the Prime at various intervals? Is there something about "number" that has to do with this change? For instance, if dwarves shaved their beards, would new dwarves popping on the Prime now have no beards as well?
Again, I haven't thought about this in absolute, 'scientific' terms. the long-term change is more a of a gradual thing as I envision it, while the 'holy heroic' changes are sudden. But yes, quantity will matter and the lack of beards will certainly be reflected in the 'new world'.


It sounds like there needs to be a clear list of things that will and will not translate from these islands to the Prime. This might help you structure what changes your players can eventually make too. Perhaps ideas, and memories move over faster than actual clothes or tools or hair styles.
Maybe... it's really more of a overall scheme than exact science.


What if something on the Islands is LOST every time a "copy" is made with the Prime. Perhaps every first child on the Islands "dies", and literally travels to the Prime as part of a new population?
Interesting thought. I might use that somehow.


--- Astral and Elemental planes surround the prime and the islands.

How do these two sources influence the Prime, the Islands, their interaction, their eventual outcomes?
These are just the ordinary planes from 4e cosmology, i.e. the places of origin for gods and primordials respectively. Apparently, in this cosmology the gods weren't able to properly form the Prime themselves, but a Dawn War is still supposed to have happened as I see it.

I hope that clears up a thing or two. Thanks for the response, BTW.

DabblerWizard
2011-06-27, 10:54 PM
You're quite welcome. Thanks for posting your ideas and commenting on mine.

Here's another point. If magic seeps from the Islands to the Prime, perhaps there need to be magic shepherds to keep the magic in check... to cultivate it, let's say, or it runs rampant and does all this crazy stuff in the world.

In one of my own campaigns, I had Elves be the magic herders, explaining why they didn't seem to have too many regular jobs, making them, and Eladrin, even more mystical and foreign to "common" humans.

erikun
2011-06-28, 12:50 AM
In 4e, most of the planes/demi-planes are floating around in the Astral, all fully self-contained. The Elemental Chaos tends to be more of a large soupy mix, where you can travel from the edge of one area to another. I would think, at least, that the demi-planes in the Elemental Chaos would be significantly different from the ones floating about the Astral.


Things I need here: A good name for the unformed Prime, something suggestive, yet not too revealing.
If it isn't formed yet, then it wouldn't have a name. :smalltongue: Even if different races have names for their own demi-planes, it would only be a regional name rather than a global one.

If the deities are involved in creating the plane, then they would probably call it something like "the plan" or "the goal". The primordials would likely just call it a bother or interference. How about Thegol, a shortening/misinterpretation of "the goal" from the deities?

If the Old Ones came before even the deities/primordials and haven't interfered with anything since, would anyone even know they exist? How?

The way you have things set up, it sounds like each hero (PC) will be starting on their own island. At least, it would make sense that they would start there, unless they are starting together with the deities and know what is going on. How were you planning on getting everyone together?


Things I need here: More naming... 'heroes' is obviously a bad terminology. Heirs? Shapers? Again, I need something suggestive, that won't spoil it all at once.
Inspires, Origins, Dreamers, Paragons, Avatars. Also note that the PCs could find out information about these "Avatars" without knowing it applies to them - after all, "divine beings that will shape the creation of the new world" isn't something I'd assume applies to a tanner-turned-adventurer.

Oh, hey. I missed that the campaign has already started. As well, I blame it being late at night.

Anyways, as to the "how to inform the players", I'd think that any exploration beyond the surface of the island would give hints as to its use. In the first island's case, the "instructions" would be written on the walls (literally) throughout the underdark. They could read through the long texts themselves, or get the support of local populations. They could even go on quests for them to get permission to view the "sacred" areas which hold the more clarifying material.

Is there any reason why you need to tie all the PCs to cosmic overseers? I mean, you said earlier that an island of dwarves will make the world hairier and drunker - not make it more inclined to worship Moradin. Why not make the world one where performing and music can influence reality magically?


Things I need here: What kind of item is appropriate as the artifact? It should ideally be something usable by both a witch and a bard but still retain some alien quality (if it's really made by the Old Ones). What powers should it grant?
A flute that makes the dead walk? A didgeridoo that allows you to see the future? A mantle that attracts potential followers? There's a lot of things that both a bard and a witch could make use of - you might want to consider what the player in question is likely to want with the character, though.

RebelRogue
2011-06-28, 04:58 PM
First session done. It was deliberately short and included the Crystal Guardian as mentioned above. My wife couldn't make it, so we were a player down. Therefore I ran it at the given level (10) even though the party is level 12. A little on the easy side, but I think we all had fun anyway. But I digress...

I ended up making the artifact a quill from some kind of unknown alien creature that is also playable like a flute - think The music of Eric Zann here :smallbiggrin: I'm pretty much set on the idea of the Old Ones being some bizarre Far Realm entities toying with letting creation form itself. It urged the bard to find 'the hero', since that's the word the bard would understand (he's always viewed Vanya as the real hero of the story - which is in fact one of the reasons I'm promoting him to this status). However, since the bard's player will be gone for a month due to travelling, we've decided on playing a number of lighter-hearted sessions (and we're pretty light-hearted anyway :smallsmile:) with alternate, 1st level characters, free for all of our gaming friends to join or leave each week. But still in the same world so we can have fun referencing our 'real' PCs as heroes and such. Still, I'm hoping to drop some hints about the overarcing plot, while still having some time to develop things properly. Should be good.