Five Foot Steps... [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

martianmister

2011-06-27, 11:46 AM

I find it when I was re-reading Rich Burlew's wikipedia page:

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/rpga_hq_polyffs1_picMain_en.gif
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/rpga_hq_polyffs2_picMain_en.gif
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/rpga_hq_polyffs3_picMain_en.gif
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/rpga_hq_polyffs4_picMain_en.gif
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/rpga_hq_polyffs5_picMain_en.gif

It's a short comic series he did for Wizards in 2005. What do you think? :smallbiggrin:

ericgrau

2011-06-27, 12:03 PM

MoonCat

2011-06-27, 12:05 PM

Ooh, thank you! I'd seen these before and then I couldn't find them again!

Can someone explain the final strip though?

Kish

2011-06-27, 12:14 PM

The point of the fifth strip is:
1) Zaid, being a consummate munchkin, has no concept of player/character separation, and his character tries to respond to everything the player knows. This makes him exceedingly vulnerable to "something's going on, and no, you don't know what" trolling. A character who tried to roleplay at all would be impervious--"McCleric" has no reason to think anything strange is going on, and in fact, in the game, nothing strange is going on. Except McCleric suddenly freaking out for no reason.
2) The DM is sufficiently annoyed by Zaid's munchkinry to pass around that note to troll Zaid.
3) All the other players are sufficiently annoyed by Zaid's munchkinry to gleefully participate in trolling Zaid.

MoonCat

2011-06-27, 12:17 PM

What's a munchkin?

FujinAkari

2011-06-27, 12:26 PM

What's a munchkin?

Munchkin is a term for someone who twists anything and everything into an in-game advantage. The term originated with human character who wanted to play a midget and wanted to argue he should get an AC bonus since halflings got them for their size.

Similarly, someone whose village got attacked by dragons might argue that they should know a dragon's weakspot and get a bonus to damage, despite not playing a Ranger for Favored Enemy or having any ranks in Knowledge(whichever one deals with Dragons)

MoonCat

2011-06-27, 12:29 PM

Okay. But what were they rolling for? And wouldn't that roll be invalid?

legomaster00156

2011-06-27, 12:31 PM

They weren't rolling for anything. The DM was simply messing with Zaid by making him think something was wrong with the party, hence his many protection measures.

FujinAkari

2011-06-27, 12:33 PM

Okay. But what were they rolling for? And wouldn't that roll be invalid?

They weren't rolling for anything at all.

A munchkin plays D&D to "win." He doesn't do it for the adventure or to fight with his friends or anything like that, he wants to have the best character, the most optimal warrior. While a munchkin doesn't want his allies to be 'bad' it really -really- bothers him to be outclassed by others.

So since Mr. Munchkin here had looked at everyone else's sheets (to make sure he was winning) he couldn't -stand- the rolls which didn't make any sense to him. He went crazy trying to figure out -how- these people were rolling so high...

MoonCat

2011-06-27, 12:34 PM

Oh, I see. Thanks.

Vent Reynolt

2011-06-27, 12:56 PM

Munchkin is a term for someone who twists anything and everything into an in-game advantage. The term originated with human character who wanted to play a midget and wanted to argue he should get an AC bonus since halflings got them for their size.

Similarly, someone whose village got attacked by dragons might argue that they should know a dragon's weakspot and get a bonus to damage, despite not playing a Ranger for Favored Enemy or having any ranks in Knowledge(whichever one deals with Dragons)

I never knew the origins of the term Munchkin until now. I guess you learn something new every day.
Although, if the munchkin wanted the benefits of a small-sized Human, he should have just played a Strongheart Halfling. :smallamused:

Concerning the comics:
I think I have seen these once or twice before, but I still enjoyed reading them again. My favorite part was the demise of Greenhill.

Herabec

2011-06-27, 12:59 PM

Hah. Those were quite amusing. :smallbiggrin:

Klear

2011-06-27, 02:38 PM

Hmm.. didn't work for me. By the time the goth chick was introduced, I felt like someone was beating me senseless with stereotypes. I guess it's not written for somebody who played DnD only once. I gave up in the middle of the 3rd one.

Capt Spanner

2011-06-27, 02:40 PM

Is it just me, or does Doug somewhat resemble The Giant's avatar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=14856)?

Similar hair colour, similarly styled (a rather bushy tie-back), goatee?

Also, I love trolling munchkin players.

Klear

2011-06-27, 02:51 PM

Hmm.. okay, I guess I'm really bored... I read the rest now and it's much better than the beginning... but then it suddenly ends when I started to enjoy it, so I'm still disappointed. =)

Vladislav

2011-06-27, 02:51 PM

Munchkin is a term for someone who twists anything and everything into an in-game advantage. The term originated with human character who wanted to play a midget and wanted to argue he should get an AC bonus since halflings got them for their size.Nope, the term originated long before 3rd edition awarded halflings an AC bonus based on size.

The term was applied originally to young gamers by older players, presumably because the connotation of being short and ridiculous (like the Munchkins in the book and film The Wizard of Oz) made it an apt label for the childish gamers it was applied to. However, before long it came to refer to anyone who engaged in a juvenile gaming style no matter their height, age or experience.

FujinAkari

2011-06-29, 12:06 PM

Nope, the term originated long before 3rd edition awarded halflings an AC bonus based on size.

Odd... since that isn't even remotely close to what the term means now

Trixie

2011-06-29, 12:14 PM

Zerg Cookie

2011-06-29, 02:46 PM

Odd... since that isn't even remotely close to what the term means now

When I DMed a group of kids, all they wanted was "to win".
Sure, they made less powerful chatacters than the ones I make as a player, but the point still stands as their idea was "Fire goes boom!".

Who149

2011-06-29, 03:10 PM

I found it really amusing :smallbiggrin:

It feels like every group there is at least one munchkin.

JonestheSpy

2011-06-29, 03:16 PM

I think I see something like a Roy, thog, and a teen Haley.

I actually thought the goth necromancer echoed Varsuvius's speech patterns pretty strongly, as did the deadpan facial expressions.

"The die reads 4, which grants a total of 22."

Dakaran

2011-06-29, 07:13 PM

These were pretty funny. Thanks for linking them. :smallsmile:

NYCharlie212

2011-06-30, 05:50 AM

Made me laugh. I should actually try playing a game of DnD one day to see how it actually is :p

Killer Angel

2011-06-30, 06:39 AM

What do you think? :smallbiggrin:

I love it. Burn the town! :smallsmile:

Valley

2011-06-30, 07:11 AM

Hehehe...I remember we once stayed in a town for one day...the DM was so upset.....but we did not burn it down...were we meant to? :smallconfused:

cheesecake

2011-06-30, 09:39 AM

The one about the super detailed town reminds me of my old D&D group back in high school.*sigh* 14 years ago.

The same guy always DMed every game. He was really creative and would make up nice places in the world. We usually burnt them, murdered people, which usually used up our entire play time.

legomaster00156

2011-06-30, 10:57 AM

I found it really amusing :smallbiggrin:

It feels like every group there is at least one munchkin.

If I still had a group, I would probably be that munchkin. But I would be a fun, roleplaying munchkin.:smallbiggrin:

Ancalagon

2011-06-30, 11:09 AM

Munchkins are the most extreme kind of powergamers.

They optimise and - this has even more potential - interpret the rules, even going so far to twist or circumvent the rules as much as possible - to win. Some munchkins will try to outright break some rules (e.g. if you have a mechanic that gives you a benefit but also some penalty they will use the benefit but "forget" to calculate the penalty in) if you let them. Some are not beyond cheating with dice-rolls if they have to.

They do that to win and and be "better" in general. They'll do all the things a normal powergamer does as well, i.e. reading monster entries in the MM to know how to beat them best (and of course their character has that knowledge as well).

Steve Jackson Games published "The Munchkin's Guide to Powergaming" some years ago, if you can get a copy of that and do not mind spending money for mindless RPG products that (hopefully!) you'll never use, it's a decent read (not awesome but if you want it in the first place, it might be interesting for you).

Minmax from goblins is possibly created by a munchkin (yet he does not seem to get played by the same player anymore). "I traded in my ability to blink at will for Weapon Profincy: Furniture".

Draconi Redfir

2011-06-30, 03:40 PM

Minmax taded his ability to wink actually.

Buy yeah, really funny comics. You always were funny giant!:smallbiggrin:

Boogastreehouse

2011-06-30, 04:46 PM

Although, if the munchkin wanted the benefits of a small-sized Human, he should have just played a Strongheart Halfling. :smallamused:

Ah, but he wanted the size bonus to air-conditioning AC, and he wanted the bonus feat and skill points that Humans get at first level.

ORione

2011-06-30, 07:32 PM

If I were in Doug's place in the fourth comic, the next town the characters visit would be identical to Greenhill in everything but name.

TSED

2011-07-07, 08:21 AM

Ah, but he wanted the size bonus to air-conditioning AC, and he wanted the bonus feat and skill points that Humans get at first level.

Strongheart Halflings get the bonus feat, the size bonuses (and penalties), halfling skill bonuses, bonuses to throwing, and I believe they still hold on to their saving throw vs fear bonuses.

They are one of the most powerful races in D&D. Seriously. That extra maxed skill is so not worth the other advantages they have, assuming they don't have a reason to be medium+ sized (like, say, being a heavy melee combatant).

And if they are but expect to be in high levels, screw it, go with the strongheart anyway and pick up a Polymorph Any Object from your friendly wizard/sorcerer/cleric-with-trickery-domain/etc.

Stormwolf

2011-07-08, 01:14 PM

What's a munchkin?

Compare and contrast the 4 major gamer archetypes: Real Men, Roleplayers, Loonies and Munchkins (http://dragon.facetieux.free.fr/jdr/Munchkin.htm) :smallbiggrin:

Sire Brenshar

2011-07-09, 12:41 AM

Yay, I'm a real role-player! :smallsmile:

Mutant Sheep

2011-07-09, 01:53 AM

If I were in Doug's place in the fourth comic, the next town the characters visit would be identical to Greenhill in everything but name.

Personally, I would kill them all and have some high cleric ghost from Greenhill rez them, then slap on a Miko-like person to torture them. That's me though.

Tebryn

2011-07-09, 10:25 AM

Odd... since that isn't even remotely close to what the term means now

I think the transition can be found in that many gamers who are not op-whores find cherry picking and optimization without role playing perspective to be childish.

Warren Dew

2011-07-09, 11:36 AM

Odd... since that isn't even remotely close to what the term means now
What happened was that the munchkins grew up and got much better at math and rules lawyering.

Narren

2011-07-09, 08:17 PM

I think the transition can be found in that many gamers who are not op-whores find cherry picking and optimization without role playing perspective to be childish.

Yikes...them's sounds like fightin words.

I'm in your camp. Many of my characters are woefully unoptimized because I feel that it gives them...character I guess. To me, a completely optimized character feels kind of cardboardy. Very few people in life, even those who are the best of the best at what they do, could be called "optimized" and I like my characters to be the same.

That being said, I wouldn't consider it childish to not care about role-playing, and focus only on optimization. It's simply a different playing style.

Hiro Protagonest

2011-07-09, 08:45 PM

I love that the role-player is the one who derailed the game. :smallbiggrin:

ORione

2011-07-09, 09:35 PM

I just did the math, and in the fifth strip Ramon got the highest possible roll given Doug's instructions.

Hiro Protagonest

2011-07-09, 10:04 PM

I just did the math, and in the fifth strip Ramon got the highest possible roll given Doug's instructions.

His birthday must be the 31st, that's the only way he could get that.

FujinAkari

2011-07-09, 11:26 PM

His birthday must be the 31st, that's the only way he could get that.

... that's what she just said, by 'highest possible result' lol

Hiro Protagonest

2011-07-09, 11:27 PM

... that's what she just said, by 'highest possible result' lol

Oh, I thought she just meant the highest of all of them. My bad.

Username_too_lo

2011-07-11, 05:15 AM

Ah, my favourite trick in LARP.

1. Draw up implausibly powerful character sheet with made up magic items.

2. Leave lying around when you go to the bar/toilet.

3. Spend an evening relatively unchallenged by munchkin players.

It's the old Steve Guttenberg in "The Bedroom Window" standoff. Can't say anything because they'd incriminate themselves (which didn't bother Zaid in this instance)

oonker

2013-09-10, 10:35 PM

When I used to DM, the strip#4 happened to me so many times that I eventually gave up on creating too much character and terrain details beforehand. If the players met up a new NPC or went into a new town, that first game session with that NPC and/or town would be shallow, and the next one highly detailed.

There was once this bard in my game that got a hireling. His name was the brand of my wallet: Giuliano. On the next few game sessions, Giuliano went from "hireling #2" to "big and final boss, responsible for all the evil in the world".

I've also had many memorable NPCs like Indaiá (a brand of bottled water), Bono (a cookie brand), and many others...

genderlich

2013-09-10, 10:38 PM

http://i.imgur.com/4Zeah.jpg

oonker

2013-09-10, 10:43 PM

Oddly, this thread appeared to be the top one on my list. Maybe someone posted something and then erased it?

I've never ventured past the first page of the forum

Ron Miel

2013-09-10, 11:26 PM

Town of Greenhill (t).

Hmmm.

F.Harr

2013-09-13, 09:52 AM

It's a short comic series he did for Wizards in 2005. What do you think? :smallbiggrin:

I think that I came up with a backstory for my AVATAR, and I don't even play RPG's except for Slash'em. I'd have so been that guy with the overly-eleaberate backstory.

"Also messing with one of the less convincing advocates of the stormwind fallacy (not that it can't be done right)."

I had to look that up. And since I read the T.V. Tropes page on the matter, it reminded me that I once read some of the book for the old Firefly game. And at the time it struck me that a blind, ex-alliance shipowner/captain might be fun. I'd have SO been that guy.

"It feels like every group there is at least one munchkin."

Like V, perhaps?

"If I were in Doug's place in the fourth comic, the next town the characters visit would be identical to Greenhill in everything but name."

Reddale, perhaps?

Wait, this was a necromanced thread? DRATIT!

War-Wren

2013-09-13, 11:36 AM

*huddles in the corner and cries at the memories the demise of Greenhill stirs*

The people in my group didn't even try to talk to anyone... so much work... wasted... :smallfrown:

F.Harr

2013-09-13, 11:38 AM

I've seen it before but I forgot it all. I think I see something like a Roy, thog, and a teen Haley. Also messing with one of the less convincing advocates of the stormwind fallacy (not that it can't be done right).

That's why you resurrect it as "don'tmesswithmeImeanityoubastards!ville."

The "!" is either a silent or a click.