Cross Class Trained Only Skills

[Gandolfi Feesh]

Short & sweet of it...

Can you cross-class into a trained only skill??

i.e;
Can you use UMD if you are a fighter?
It's listed as a trained only skill, which to me sounds suspiciously like you need to acquire it from levelling in a particular class such as a Bard for examples sake.

Thoughts?
A quoted definition would be splendid

[Lord Ruby34]

Trained only means that you have to have a rank in the skill to try and use it, not that you can't take it cross class.

[Telonius]

From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/skillDescriptions.htm):


Trained Only

If this notation is included in the skill name line, you must have at least 1 rank in the skill to use it. If it is omitted, the skill can be used untrained (with a rank of 0). If any special notes apply to trained or untrained use, they are covered in the Untrained section (see below).

There is another relevant section of the Skills rule, but it's part of the level-up mechanic (therefore not part of the Open Game License) so we can't quote it directly. But to paraphrase, it says you can put a skill rank in cross-class skills, and doesn't include any rules against putting points in "trained only" skills. This is found on page 62 of the PHB.

There is no "Restriction" line in the Use Magic Device entry that would indicate any restrictions on classes able to use it. (There is a Restriction line in Forgery, Search, and Survival, for example).

[Curmudgeon]

Cross-class that 1 rank minimum will cost you 2 skill points, and then you're allowed to make skill checks. So it's all perfectly legal, just not very effective.

[Telonius]

Short & sweet of it...

Can you cross-class into a trained only skill??

i.e;
Can you use UMD if you are a fighter?
It's listed as a trained only skill, which to me sounds suspiciously like you need to acquire it from levelling in a particular class such as a Bard for examples sake.

Thoughts?
A quoted definition would be splendid

Just remembered and checked it out - this is actually how it worked back in 3.0. Only Bard and Rogue had access to Use Magic Device. The restriction was dropped during the change to 3.5.

[Gandolfi Feesh]

Thank you, much appreciated

[Keld Denar]

If you do put ranks in UMD cross-class, make sure you invest some cash in partially charged wands.

[myancey]

If you do put ranks in UMD cross-class, make sure you invest some cash in partially charged wands.

A fully charged wand of Nerveskitter should only be 750gp, right? It's a good call.

[Gandolfi Feesh]

No point in the nerve skitter wand, although it's a swift action to cast it'll still take you a standard action to activate the wand.

I wouldn't allow it, but who am I to judge?!

[Keld Denar]

Rules Compendium addended that. Activating a spell trigger item now has the same activation time as the casting time of the spell stored. That means that activating a Wand of Nerveskitter is an immediate action. Of course, you have to have the wand in hand when you are attacked...

[Thurbane]

Yep, that one was one the most notable rules changes/clarifications in the entire RC.

Would have been a nice gesture from WotC to have the RC as OGL after the cessation on 3.5, so that SRD sites could update their content with it. As it was, many people didn't consider the RC worthwhile, and many 3.5 groups I know didn't bother getting a copy, since 90% of the book is already present in other rulebooks.

[Psyren]

If you do put ranks in UMD cross-class, make sure you invest some cash in partially charged wands.

Must we dig up that corpse in every thread to mention UMD? It's starting to stink. :smallsigh:

[Salanmander]

Cross-class that 1 rank minimum will cost you 2 skill points, and then you're allowed to make skill checks. So it's all perfectly legal, just not very effective.

Interesting. The SRD says that you need a minimum of 1 rank to use a trained-only skill, but the Jack of All Trades feat (complete adventurer) says that it allows you to use trained-only skills, as if you had 1/2 rank in them. Is this an instance of bad editing, or was the rule changed at some point?

I know my groups have usually played that 1/2 rank is sufficient for checks.

[Thurbane]

I believe this is a "specific trumps general" case, in that the feat is a specific exception to the general rule.

[Psyren]

I believe this is a "specific trumps general" case, in that the feat is a specific exception to the general rule.

This. Rule says no, feat says yes: feat wins, but that doesn't make the rule wrong.

[Curmudgeon]

The original is on page 66 of the Player's Handbook:
Trained Only: If this notation is included in the skill name line, you must have at least 1 rank in the skill to use it. ½ a rank only works with Jack of All Trades.