The Tripper

[tonberrian]

After searching the interwebz for the 10,000th time, I've come to the conclusion that there needs to be a handy reference to all the tripping goodness out there, even if it is only for my reference.

So, Playground, how does the tripper trip? Assume I know nothing (despite the fact that I know at least one thing - knowing when to ask the Playground).

[Keld Denar]

The joy and bane of tripping is that there are really only 3 things that affect tripping. One is strength (and bonus to Str checks), two is size, three is circumstance. Of those, one and two are pretty self explanatory. Circumstance is an accumulation of random misc things that boost trip checks. Improved Trip, for example, is one of these, as is a Sweeping weapon. Stability (and legginess) are circumstances that oppose tripping, for example.

The biggest bonus and penalty for tripping is the fact that unlike Grappling or Bullrushing, BAB is not factored in. Its simply Str + Size + X vs Str/Dex + Size + X. This is good if you have a lot of all 3, regardless of your BAB. A PsyWar using Overchannel tricks could get to size Huge by about level 4-5, and with that size bonus, an ok starting Str, and the Imp Trip feat, he could easily trip a vanilla medium sized level 20 fighter. Alternatively, a level 40 fighter has almost no chance to trip a collosal dragon unless he himself can become at least gargantuan and have a decent Str mod, simply because size plays such a major role in the check.

[tonberrian]

There's more than just the bonus to trip checks, though. The tripper does more than trip. He's a full-fledged battlefield control machine if built right. Attacks of Opportunity let him trip when it isn't his turn. How does he get them?

[Lateral]

Well, since BAB isn't factored in and AoOs don't depend on it either, a War Hulk could make one hell of a tripping machine.

[dgnslyr]

Throw in a Skillfull weapon. It's a +2 enchantment, and gives you 3/4 BAB, if it's higher than your normal BAB, and if you're a War Hulk, then it probably will be.

[The Rabbler]

The most common way to get trip attacks is through AoOs in which you simply choose to make a trip attempt instead of attacking. This means that combat reflexes is a necessity along with a good dex score (though gloves of the deft opportunist also give extra AoOs per round). Getting to a larger size will also help you here, as it gives you more reach and therefore lets you cover more area to catch AoOs in. Getting a reach weapon (guisarme is the best if you don't want to spend a feat, spiked chain is the best otherwise) doubles your reach, so you can reach even further and trip from even farther away.

The other easy way to get AoOs is through karmic strike or robilar's gambit; both feats which allow you to hand out AoOs whenever anyone strikes you in melee.

Now, another great feat to grab if you're going to be tripping is the Knockdown feat; a feat which lets you make a trip attempt if you successfully hit and deal damage to a target. This, along with the fact that improved trip gives you another attack if you manage to trip your target, makes it so that you can hit a single target for two attacks with the same weapon for only one of your attacks in a full attack.

Also, standing up from prone (which is where you end up if you get tripped) provokes an AoO, so you can trip them over again and waste one of their move actions.

[tonberrian]

Also, standing up from prone (which is where you end up if you get tripped) provokes an AoO, so you can trip them over again and waste one of their move actions.

While standing up from prone does provoke an AoO, AoO's occur before the action that triggered them. Therefore, you attack him while he is still prone, getting the bonus to attack rolls but preventing you from tripping him again.

[erikun]

Any talk of tripping should mention the Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) build. It's not the most efficient, but it is simple and SRD, which makes it easily accessable.

How does the tripper trip?
By using the tripping (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#trip) rules, of course. :smalltongue: Specifically, the character will want the Improved Trip feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTrip) (which generally means 13 INT and Combat Expertise), and a weapon that allows you to use it for trip attempts. The Spiked Chain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#chainSpiked) is preferred, both for it's ability to make trip attempts and its reach ability.

How does the tripper control?
The most common use is through the Combat Reflexes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#combatReflexes) feat. Tripping can be used offensively to remove enemy actions (since they must spend an action to stand up) while still attacking, but the greatest use of control involves tripping - and thus, stopping movement - of enemies who attempt to walk past the tripper's threatened squares. This is also why the spiked chain is so useful: it extends the tripper's reach, and thus the area that enemies can't walk past him.

Other information of note:

Trip attacks require a touch attack to connect, so bonuses to hit for the weapon apply.
The actual trip roll highly relies on strength and size, so anything that increases size (Enlarge Person) greatly helps with trip attempts.
Improved Trip, along with granting a +4 to the trip roll, grants a free attack for a successful trip. If you are tripping with Improved Trip, you don't lose any attacks.
Unlike somewhat popular assumptions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html), moving through several threatened squares only provokes one Attack of Opportunity. (It happens to all of us.) Also, tripping happens before the action that provokes it, so you can't trip someone who is standing up.
You can't trip levitating creatures. You (arguably) can't trip flying creatures. You can't trip incorporeal creatures. There are some creatures (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ooze.htm#gelatinousCube) which even the most liberal DMs aren't likely to allow you to trip.
A good tripping build will want Strength (for successful trip attempts), Dexterity (for several AoOs from Combat Reflexes), Constitution (because you will likely become the focus of attacking creatures), and at least 13 Intelligence (for Combat Expertise/Improved Trip). It will also want at least some points in Wisdom, so they don't get mind-controlled into attacking their own party.


That's about all I can think of for the moment.

[Tancred]

The Living Chain specific weapon and the Sweeping weapon property (both MIC) will each give you a +2 bonus to trip attempts using that weapon.

Also in the MIC are the following items granting a bonus on Strength checks:
Armbands of Might: +2 untyped bonus
Belt of the Champion: +5 competence bonus if you establish the proper divine connection.
Brute Gauntlets: +2 to +4 morale bonus (limited uses/day)
Third Eye Surge: +2 to +4 insight bonus (limited uses/day)
Torc of the Titans: +5 morale bonus (limited uses/day)

If you've got access to the 3.5E "Loot 4 Less" books, then the Cloak of Humankind will give you +1 to all opposed rolls.

Combined with Improved Trip, these can leave you with a trip roll of d20 + 21 + STR + Size Modifier

(Not all bonuses included since you can't use them all at once, unless you can get extra swift actions/turn)

[Runestar]

Here is a sample tripper. Fighter20 FTW!!! :smallbiggrin:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870774/Fighter-20:_The_34;Gatling_Chain_Gun34;_Tripper?pg=1

[Cog]

You (arguably) can't trip flying creatures.
Only if you argue against the Rules Compendium; winged creatures can be tripped, and immediately fall as if they hadn't maintained their minimum speed for the round.

[The Rabbler]

Only if you argue against the Rules Compendium; winged creatures can be tripped, and immediately fall as if they hadn't maintained their minimum speed for the round.

what if they have hover? or if they have Fly X (perfect)?

[Feytalist]

what if they have hover? or if they have Fly X (perfect)?

Perfect flight is almost always magical flight. I'm not certain how one would go about tripping a beholder, or a lantern archon.

[Cog]

what if they have hover? or if they have Fly X (perfect)?
Thus the specification of winged flight. Even if you have good/perfect maneuverability with wings, getting those wings tangled in a trip attempt means you aren't using them, so your maneuverability simply doesn't matter; thus you fall as if you failed to maintain speed, whether you actually have a minimum speed or not.

[Gnaeus]

Perfect flight is almost always magical flight. I'm not certain how one would go about tripping a beholder, or a lantern archon.

Usually, but magical flight /= non winged flight. A druid wildshaped into a desmodu bat with wings of air has magical, winged, perfect flight for one example. Or someone with improved maneuverability feat + any of the many ways to get winged fly with good maneuverability.

[Cog]

Wings granted by magic are still wings.

Wings improved by magic are still wings.

Winged creatures require use of their wings to fly, just as walking creatures require use of their legs to walk. Tripping can interfere with the use of wings just as it can interfere with the use of legs, and it can interfere with wings boosted by Wings of Air just as it can legs boosted with Expeditious Retreat. I'm really not sure what the concern is, here.

[Gnaeus]

Not disagreeing with you, Cog. Just pointing out how you could get perfect, winged flight.

[The Rabbler]

now that that's cleared up, the martial stance feat is worth a mention. use it to pick up the thicket of blades (I think) stance after level 6 (I think) will make it so all motion, including 5 ft steps and tumbles provoke AoOs.

[tonberrian]

Is there a way to have enemies provoke Attacks of Opportunity when they attack someone else?

[Keld Denar]

You need an IL of 5 to get Thicket, which means 10 levels of not-Crusader or 5 levels of Crusader or some combination of the two.

[Bakkan]

The Mauling Gauntlets from Magic of Incarnum can be obtained with a feat and grant a +2 bonus on Strength checks, including trip and bull rush. This improves by an additional +2 for every point of essentia invested. So for instance, if you were an Azurin (human-like race from MoI who trades his extra skill point for 1 bonus essentia) fighter 1 with the Shape Soulmeld (Mauling Gauntlets) feat, you would get +4 to your trip attempts. At level 6 you can get Bonus essentia to gain 2 essentia, which fills the Mauling Gauntlets to maximum if you don't have bonus essentia and grants +6 to your trip attempts.

The Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) gains Improved Trip at 2nd level even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites.

Goliaths from Races of Stone are treated as one size category larger than normal for several purposes including trip attempts. This bonus stacks with powers, spells, and abilities that increase the Goliath's size. Goliaths also get a tasty +4 Strength.

Combining these and previous poster's suggestions gives a possible build:

Goliath Psychic Warrior 4/Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 (ECL 7)
Feats:
Level 1: Shape Soulmeld (Mauling Gauntlets)
Level 1 Bonus: Overchannel
Level 2 Bonus: Talented
Level 3: Practiced Manifester (Psychic Warrior)
Level 5 Bonus: Improved Trip
Level 6: Bonus Essentia

This character has a Strength score of 18 (base) + 4 (race) +4 (rage) +4 (size) = 30 (+10 modifier) while in a rage and Expanded to Huge. He has a total trip modifier when raging and Expanded of 10 (Strength) + 4 (feat) + 6 (soulmeld) + 12 (size, effectively Gargantuan) = +32. This is before any magic items at all.

[herrhauptmann]

Is there a way to have enemies provoke Attacks of Opportunity when they attack someone else?

Defensive rebuke: (ToB)Anyone you attack, has to attack you on their turn, or take an AOO.
You've hopefully got more reach than them, so you'll get an AOO for movement. (Thicket of blades or something)
If you can score improved invisibility, "Spectral Skirmisher" gives you an AOO when they attack a square looking for an invisible you. The downside, after that AOO, they know which square you're in.

Get the feat knockdown, so if you do >10 damage, you get a free trip attempt.
If you dual wield (Spinning swords or something), you get 2 attacks per AOO.

If you're going to be throwing this many attacks at someone, you should load your weapons up with 'status effects' I think. Rather than hitting for 2d4+1.5str (or whatever), you're now hitting them 2d4+1.5str+ Stunning or Shaken or Con damage, Str damage, etc.
Here's a partly complete table I put together for that purpose.
{table=Head]Name|Book|Cost|Effect|Save
Wounding |DMG|+2|1 Con damage|None
MarrowCrushing |BoVD|+3|1 Con Damage|None
Enfeebling|BoED|+1|crit, 1d6+2 Temp Str Damage|None
Paralyzing|BoED|+2|Paralyzed up to 10 rounds|Will 17
Roaring|BoED|+3|Shaken, 2d6 sonic|Will 22
Nervewrack|D.Uund|+1|On Crit Many effects1d4 rounds|None
Subjugating|Heroes of Battle|+2|Shaken/Frightened 5 rounds|Will 20
Doom Burst|Mini|+1|Crit, shaken 5minutes|None
Paralytic Burst|Mini|+2|Crit, Hold Monster|None
Weakening|Shining South|+3|1 Str Damage|None
[/table]

Deft Opportunist boosts your ability to make AOOs. There's a pair of bracers in MiC that actually boosts your number of AOOs per turn.
And a couple of feats, probably from dragon mag, that'll give you secondary/tertiary attacks on your AOO. So rather than waiting for someone to provoke you 3 times, just hit him 3 times for the single provoke. :D Downside: Still takes up 3 of your AOOs for that turn.
Heck, here's the whole thread for it: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196596

Other info: Steadfast boots in MiC. They won't boost your ability to trip someone, but if you fail your trip, they'll give you a boost to your roll to avoid counter tripping. An additional benefit if you've got a 2 handed weapon (even spiked chain): You're automatically set against any charge. So free attack for double damage that doesn't eat an AOO, because it happens as soon as they enter your reach, which is separate from leaving a square you threaten.

If the DM doesn't like you being Large, try being Human and getting the Feat Jotunbrud. It is not Powerful Build. It doesn't affect reach or weapon size. It just gives you a +4 to opposed rolls like trip/disarm/grapple IF that's advantageous to you. You also count as large for purposes of improved grab, swallow whole, and other monster abilities. So you're less likely to get eaten by a dragon.

[Zaq]

what if they have hover? or if they have Fly X (perfect)?

The rules still say they fall "as if it didn't maintain its minimum forward speed." The fact that it doesn't have a minimum forward speed (or rather, that their minimum forward speed is "none") doesn't matter. It still falls as if it had a minimum forward speed (which it failed to move).

[Psyren]

Let's clear this up:

Creatures that fly without wings (and any creature with perfect maneuverability) can't be tripped while flying. If the creature is still in the air after stalling, it must succeed on a DC 20 Reflex save to recover and resume flying. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060321a)

In addition:

- You can't trip swimmers.
- You can forcibly dismount a rider with trip. (details in above link.)

[JackRackham]

After searching the interwebz for the 10,000th time, I've come to the conclusion that there needs to be a handy reference to all the tripping goodness out there, even if it is only for my reference.

So, Playground, how does the tripper trip? Assume I know nothing (despite the fact that I know at least one thing - knowing when to ask the Playground).

Touch attack, opposed STR check with modifiers for size, certain weapons and feats. I think it works pretty much the same with disarm and a number of other things (I wanna say grapple, maybe bull rush).

[Gwendol]

You probably want to add the Stand Still feat to the build, since it also provides battlefield control, but works (probably) better against "un-trippable" creatures. Other feats to consider that may grant AoO's are Hold the Line, Large and in Charge, Mage Slayer. Knockback + Shocktrooper may give you other opportunities to trip, without having to use a tripping weapon (you need to be Large, or be of Powerful Build for Knockback)

[herrhauptmann]

You probably want to add the Stand Still feat to the build, since it also provides battlefield control, but works (probably) better against "un-trippable" creatures. Other feats to consider that may grant AoO's are Hold the Line, Large and in Charge, Mage Slayer. Knockback + Shocktrooper may give you other opportunities to trip, without having to use a tripping weapon (you need to be Large, or be of Powerful Build for Knockback)
If you're going to go for mageslayer, you should also pick up blind fight and Pierce magical concealment (screws Iot7FV with their wardings.). Now you ignore pretty much all magic based miss chances. Pierce magical protection is the ultimate F-U to gishes like the abjurant champion.

If you're going to start throwing in bullrushes, you should just build for it with a dungeoncrasher fighter.
Yes, a lot of bonuses to trip also provide bonuses to bullrush, but they're rather mutually exclusive, especially if you're going to throw shocktrooper into there. Shocktrooper activates on a charge, and the following round, which means they're at the extreme limits of your reach, and you're bullrushing them out of their square, so they'll be completely out of your reach. Yes, with a lockdown/bullrush focus, you can punish them for coming back to engage you after the bullrush, but why would they? They can just walk around your reach zone and hit someone else.

Also once the fight's been going on for a while, it'll be a little chaotic. You'll have to start being conservative, only bullrushing targets that aren't engaged with your allies, or you could end up ruining someone elses combo attack: perhaps the rogue was getting set up to use a skilltrick to put himself into place for a nice flanking sneak attack, that he now can't use.

Bugger, what book is Large and in Charge in again? Can't find it...