(3.5E)Needing some helpful direction with a Grey Elf Psion/Rogue

[ZethVorador]

Hey, so im totally new to the forum and just looking for some help with my Character. I will post a bit of him here and can repost anything else that is necessary.

Level 3-Level 1 Rogue-Level 2 Psion Telepath
Str-12(+1)
Dex-20(+5)
Con-13(+1)
Int-20(+5)
Wis-12(+1)
Cha-14(+2)

16HP
AC-18 (10+Armor(3)+Dex(5))

Feats-Solicit Psicrystal, Weapon Finesse and a 3rd I have yet to pick.

Powers- Mind Thrust, Force Screen, Attraction, Matter Agitation, Vigor and Entangling Ectoplasm

Skills- I am fairly decent in most skills, my hide, spot, move silently, search and listen are all maxed and ive got a fair chunk of the knowledges and a minimum of 1 in every other available skill.

I am not quite sure where I want to take this character so far which is a major problem. I can post any other needed info. I have been through the psions no nonsense handbook and while very helpful I am still looking for a direction with this character and any and all suggestions are totally welcome.

A huge thx to anyone who responds!:smallbiggrin:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Feats-Solicit Psicrystal, Weapon Finesse and a 3rd I have yet to pick.
I think you mean Psicrystal Affinity, Solicit Psicrystal is a power. Definitely take Practiced Manifester from Complete Psionic, possibly in place of Psicrystal Affinity so you can also get TWF.


Powers- Mind Thrust, Force Screen, Attraction, Matter Agitation, Vigor and Entangling Ectoplasm
Mind Thrust can't do sneak attack damage, switch it for either Crystal Shard or Energy Ray.


Elocater (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/elocater.htm) could be a decent choice. Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) can be pretty good for making up some BAB. Shadowmind in Complete Adventurer may be exactly what you're looking for.

Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) is pretty good if you take Mind Cripple and use TWF, see if your DM will waive the evil prerequisite in exchange for losing the death attack class feature.

I'd go Rogue 1/ Psion 4/ Psychic Assassin 5/ Elocater or Shadowmind 10. If you go Elocater, get the Claw Gloves from MIC and probably at least one more piece from that item set so you can TWF on a spring attack or charge and rend if you hit with both claws.

[ZethVorador]

Ok so once again keeping in mind im new I will go through this list style and some of these questions may come off as dumb so I apologize.

1. What would be the benifit of practiced manifester? like what do I gain by having my manifester level +4?
2. I have a left over feat so I could take TWF but im not entirely sure why its so important?
3. The shadowmind looks great but I have never heard of 0 level powers, sub psionics
4. I dont really like that I have to take a -2 to one of my stats just to become a Shadowmind in the first place.
5. I am already neutral Evil so I dont really need to lose the death attack if I can help it.
6. the Elocator dosent really look likes its up my alley.

[Yora]

with a higer manifester level, you can put more power points into a single power. Right now, you can put up to 2 points into a single manifesting of a power. With the feat, you can use 3 to make the power more stronger and versatile.

1. If you're a Rogue 4/Psion 8, you could put up to 12 points into a single power instead of 8, which could be two additional damage dice and probably raises the save DC by +2. There are lots of nice things you can do with augmentation, but to do so, you need a manifester level as high as you can get.

2. The point of TWF for rogues is to get as many attacks per round as you can, because each hit gets full sneak attack damage. However, if you want to be mostly a psion with just 2 or 3 levels in rogues for skills, your powers will be your main abilities in combat and Sneak Attack with weapons rarely used. In that case TWF is rather useless to your character.

[ZethVorador]

sorry and I can sneak attack with Crystal Shard or energy ray?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

1. You cannot spend more powerpoints than your manifester level when manifesting a power. Your manifester level is the limit to how much you can augment a power, in addition to determining your powers' durations and other effects. Your manifester level is already behind your character level by one, and taking those prestige classes that lose manifester levels will further delay it; Practiced Manifester will fix it so that your manifester level, and thus durations and possibility of augmentation, is higher than it otherwise would have been.

2. TWF is good because you get extra attacks without taking severe penalties. Extra attacks means more opportunities to deal sneak attack damage, and more opportunities to deal Mind Cripple damage.

3. Shadowmind in the book Complete Adventurer makes no mention of 0-level powers.

4. Shadowmind in the book Complete Adventurer makes no mention of reducing any of your ability scores as a condition or result of taking it.

5. Then it looks like Psychic Assassin would be a great fit!

6. It's one of many possibilities, if you don't like it then don't use it.


If it makes an attack roll you can apply sneak attack damage to it, if other conditions of sneak attack are met (opponent is flat-footed or otherwise denied his Dex bonus and you're within 30 ft.).

[ZethVorador]

1. That sounds like an amazing feat then! I will definitly take it ASAP

2. TWF is good because you get extra attacks without taking severe penalties. Extra attacks means more opportunities to deal sneak attack damage, and more opportunities to deal Mind Cripple damage.

3. Oh so sorry! I was looking at one in the (Minds eye) thing online! I didnt even notice it in the CA! THX!!!

4. #

5. I definitly agree! THANK YOU SOOO MUCH!!! I have alot of planning to do!

6. Sorry I didnt mean to sound offensive, I just didnt want it to look like I totally disregarded one of your ideas!

7.Thats awesome I wasent aware at all of that! Thank you!

Oh where can the Psychic Assassin class be found? Other than that thanx a 1000! I appreciate it greatly!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I gave you a link when I first suggested it, here it is again (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d). Definitely get Mind Cripple at the 5th level, it allows you to deal 2 Int damage on every sneak attack. If you hit something four times with sneak attack damage, that's 8 Int damage too, if their Int score drops to 0 or lower they go into a coma. Most big, tough, high-HP opponents won't have a high Int score, so even if you deal very little HP damage to them you could knock them down via Int damage.

[Keld Denar]

Alternatively, Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b)?

The other funny side benefit of Practiced Manifester is that your bonus PP for a high manifester stat is directly tied to your ML, not your character level or class level. Thus, a Rogue4/Psion4 with Practiced Manifester would have the same number of bonus PP as a Psion 8 (although base PP would be dramatically different). Thus, taking PM can result in picking up a handful of extra PP, sometimes more than you'd get for taking any other feats that give you bonus PP. Only if you are multiclassed in non-manifester classes or are getting your MLs from a psionic PrC with its own progression, like Psionic Assassin.

The rules for Psionic Assassin conversion are in Secrets of Sarlona.

And to answer your last question...you can SA with any spell (or power) that allows and attack roll and deals damage. Consult Complete Arcane's chapter on Weaponlike Spells for more details, of which psionics also comply with. You still need to QUALIFY for SA, which that your foe has to be denied his Dex bonus (such as through Invisibility, foe is balancing or flat footed, etc), and you have to be within 30' barring very specific exceptions.

Also, because it's relevant: Spoons McGee, the Telekinetic Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9940342&postcount=171)

[ZethVorador]

Ok another quick question! I am taking my Psion to level 5 (ECL 6), I will be replacing my bonus feat with Telepathic Communication (M'Se) its a ACF for Telepaths and taking Mindsight (BoA). I get both at level 6, I took TwF now and for my 9th level ill be taking Practiced Manifester (it will instantly begin to pay off then). My question is what other feats might help? If I can I would like to avoid things that can be replecated with magic, such as speed of thought which adds +10 to your base speed Etc. Any help here again would be great!

[Keld Denar]

As mentioned in the Spoons McGee post, Burrowing Power is kinda a fun Metapsionic feat for doing dirty things to your foes through walls. Nobody is out of your reach with the simple expenditure of your psionic focus.

Other than that, Expanded Knowledge is seldom misplaced. Poach fun powers of other lists such as Telekinetic Thrust or Metamorphasis (is that a table? or an Assassin? or BOTH!!!!!).

[Psyren]

The rules for Psionic Assassin conversion are in Secrets of Sarlona.

Alternatively, use the one they made. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) Or Daggerspell Psion from CAdv. (Ugh I hate that name; mine would be Daggermind instead.)