New player needing help.

[Gamer91919]

Hello everyone, I am here to request some help making a character. I made one before, but it got killed the first session... I am new to the group (and game) and the other players said to look on forums for help since the GM is kind of a sadist but likes rewarding clever use of abilities. :smallsigh:

Setting information: Eberron, scoundrel type, currently we are on a pirate ship at level 4, and the campaign will be almost completely on the sea.

I would like to be an aventi, (other players said it should help me in the setting.

The other players are currently a sorcerer and a wizard. I would like to play a thief based pirate that needs to be able to hold its own in combat.

Soooo long story short, if anyone can help me with a strong or tricky progression I would greatly appreciate it.

ps: From the first game it seems like we are going to be outnumbered often and the environment kind of screwed us over.

[graeylin]

if your DM is a sadist, and is willing (or happy) to kill a brand new player in his first game, the best advice I can give is

find a new DM.

Your DM shows a distinct lack of maturity.

[holywhippet]

Not sure about taking an aventi - being able to swim well and breath underwater is a bonus at times, but you lose the extra bonuses of being human (bonus feat, extra skill points) despite essentially being human. Also, that bonus to water spells won't help a non-caster like a rogue.

A hadozee might be a better choice if you want a naval themed race - bonus to dexterity, penalty to charisma and you can glide through the air which is useful for jumping off the mast and getting onto another ship.

I'd consider taking a rogue/cleric or a rogue/barbarian maybe. The former supports with spells, the latter has better attack power and hit points.

[kharmakazy]

The only benefit to aventi seems to be water breathing...

You are in a 3 person party with 2 casters? Things are going to be dicey at best. I would probably roll a full plate tank cleric.

[Gamer91919]

Its a close group of friends IRL and this is a way I'm hoping to spend time with them since I just got back from college.

I guess I could change from aventi, though I would like to have a waterbreather/swimmer so I don't drown again due to a big lobster thing... lol

After my character died the group was attacked by a small naval ship which my friends destroyed their rigging with spells and made a run for it.

as a slightly protective disclaimer for the GM... He tried to prompt the casters to try to save me (i hurt the lobster thing pretty bad before it grabbed me and dove into the ocean) but they didn't have a swim skill so they didn't jump in.

[hobbitkniver]

Personally, due to your two arcane casters, I suggest a full BAB type class. If the DM killed you though, that's really harsh. I've never played with people who consider it a serious contest, but that sucks man. A cleric might be good too since you're looking at being a tank unless you have one or more entirely reliable NPC party members.

[holywhippet]

as a slightly protective disclaimer for the GM... He tried to prompt the casters to try to save me (i hurt the lobster thing pretty bad before it grabbed me and dove into the ocean) but they didn't have a swim skill so they didn't jump in.

I don't blame them. Forget the swim skill, unless they've got the right items or spell preperation they can't even cast underwater.

You could consider a monk/cleric/sacred fist - put ranks into escape artist so you get away from anything trying to drag you under. The caster levels means you'll eventually be able to cast water breathing anyway.

When you get enough money/levels, if you are still worried, invest in a ring that gives you freedom of movement.

[Gamer91919]

Yeah at first I was kind of upset... but after thinking about it longer, i realized that most oceanic arthropods don't just let go of pray... even after death in the case of it being in their claws. Also the others were unable to swim down to help once it was under the ship.

Though it sucks it was on my first day... at least I know now that I need to consider all contingencies before jumping at the enemy. :smallbiggrin:

[holywhippet]

Another thought, if one of them attacks again, before engaging it in combat you should grab a strong rope and tie yourself to something strong looking. Give yourself just enough slack that it can't pull you over the side.

See if either of the casters know the grease spell - if they grease your armour/clothes you get +10 to escape or resists grapple attempts.

[King Atticus]

Not sure about taking an aventi - being able to swim well and breath underwater is a bonus at times, but you lose the extra bonuses of being human (bonus feat, extra skill points) despite essentially being human. Also, that bonus to water spells won't help a non-caster like a rogue.

+1, I would skip the Aventi, Just pick up a Greater Crystal of Aquatic Action (MIC PG 25) for 3,000 once you can afford it. It gives you a swim speed of half your base speed, doesn't apply an armor check penalty on swim checks, no penalties on movement or attacks underwater and most importantly lets you breath water as easily as air.

That extra feat and those skill points human grants are worth way more than that.

[agahii]

I'd just pick a race I want to play and add the Amphibious Template(same book as Aventi) witch is just 0 la and a -2 dex to play w/e you want that is a humanoid or monstrous humanoid.

Amphibious Human is like Aventi, but totally better.

[King Atticus]

I'd just pick a race I want to play and add the Amphibious Template(same book as Aventi) witch is just 0 la and a -2 dex to play w/e you want that is a humanoid or monstrous humanoid.

...even better :smallbiggrin:

[holywhippet]

+1, I would skip the Aventi, Just pick up a Greater Crystal of Aquatic Action (MIC PG 25) for 3,000 once you can afford it. It gives you a swim speed of half your base speed, doesn't apply an armor check penalty on swim checks, no penalties on movement or attacks underwater and most importantly lets you breath water as easily as air.


What were they smoking when they priced that item? The enchanting items rule says that continous effect spell items should cost spell level X caster level X 2000 gold. That's 3 X 5 X 2000 = 30,000 gold - and that's just for the water breathing spell.

I suppose they figured it isn't that strong of an benefit.

[Greenish]

What were they smoking when they priced that item?They were writing MIC, where they tried (mostly successfully) to price items by what they're actually worth, instead of worrying about the guidelines (which are a total crapshoot anyway).

[Arbane]

The only benefit to aventi seems to be water breathing...

You are in a 3 person party with 2 casters? Things are going to be dicey at best. I would probably roll a full plate tank cleric.

Full plate on the open ocean might be a bad idea. Both Water Walk and Water Breathing are 3rd level spells, according to my PHB.

[Gamer91919]

Full plate on the open ocean might be a bad idea. Both Water Walk and Water Breathing are 3rd level spells, according to my PHB.

lol *gurgle gurgle* not even a lobster dragging me down this time....

I will take this opportunity to inform you that magic items are very Very rare in this game... So magic items will not be easy to depend on...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater), Dragonborn of Bahamut (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b), Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) (in that order), Level Adjustment Buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). That means you don't have the +1 LA, instead you're down by 3,000 XP. You still only have three class levels, but you'll eventually catch up to the rest of the party.

That starts with the Water Orc ability score adjustments (Str +4, Con +2, Int -2, Wis -2, Cha -2), size and type (medium Humanoid (Orc)), and movement modes (30 ft. land, 30 ft. swim). Dragonborn gets rid of everything else. You get the Dragonborn ability adjustments (Dex -2, Con +2) and traits (pick the Heart aspect) on top of that. Mineral Warrior is added afterward, so nothing is lost due to Dragonborn, so its ability score adjustments (Str +2, Con +4, Int -2, Wis -2, Cha -2), movement modes (Burrow 15 ft.), and traits (Darkvision, DR 8/Adamantine) get added onto the pile.

You end up with a Medium Humanoid (Orc, Dragonblood, Earth) who has movement modes of 30 ft. land, 30 ft. swim, and 15 ft. burrow, ability score adjustments of Str +6, Dex -2, Con +8, Int -4, Wis -4, Cha -4, with +3 natural armor, Darkvision 60 ft., Damage Reduction 8/Adamantine (every physical attack that hits you is reduced by 8 points unless it's an Adamantine weapon), and Dragonborn traits with the Heart aspect. Get the feat Entangling Exhalation from Races of the Dragon, and use that as often as you can to keep as many opponents as possible debuffed by the Entangle effect. Go Crusader from Tome of Battle, get Extra Granted Maneuver, wear heavy armor with a heavy shield, and use your maneuvers and Martial Spirit stance to heal yourself and your allies. Swim over to an enemy ship and burrow through the hull repeatedly to sink it if necessary.

[Zaq]

Full plate on the open ocean might be a bad idea. Both Water Walk and Water Breathing are 3rd level spells, according to my PHB.

That said, if you can pull it off, there's a certain charm to someone who's hardcore enough to go swimming in full plate. My roommate played such a character in the seafaring campaign we had a year or two ago, and that was fun times.

It's honestly not THAT hard by mid (6ish) levels. Just max your ranks, pump your STR, snag an item or two if you can, maybe blow a trait (not a feat) on it if you're allowed, try to slim down your ACP, and you can do the backstroke while encased in metal. Good stuff.

[kharmakazy]

Pssh. Play a warforged with adamantine body. Drowning is for lesser beings. Go warblade with mountain strike that ignores DR and hardness.

Chew through the hull of the other ship like a boss.

Giant lobster wants to grapple you to the bottom of the sea? Whatever. Kill him and then burn down his lobster house and have your way with his lobster wife.

Insightful strike people with your face.

[Darth Stabber]

Any martial adept with a swim speed is going to be a boss in a naval campaign, because of mountain hammer. Go Darfellen Warblade and be freaking orcatorpedo. If your doing LA buyoff, go koa-toan. Not that their good, but who doesn't want to force their gm to pronounce blipdoolpoolp.

[Badgerish]

lol *gurgle gurgle* not even a lobster dragging me down this time....

I will take this opportunity to inform you that magic items are very Very rare in this game... So magic items will not be easy to depend on...PLAY A SPELLCASTER

In standard D&D, you NEED magic. This can either be the ability to cast spells or magic items to duplicate them.

as this is a low-magic-item campaign (set in Ebberon! Ebberon shouldn't be a low-magic-item setting!) then you need to be a spellcaster.

PLAY A SPELLCASTER

If psionics are in, Psychic Warrior (or Monk 2(Tashalatora feat)/Psywar x) is an okay fighting+magic option.
If pathfinder options are in, consider a Synthesist-Summoner. You can pickup the Aquatic evolution for full breathing/movement underwater, be a good fighting-type and have a range of spells.
(Synthesists do need a houserule or two to allow the Eidolon tempHP pool to 'heal', but only the worst of GMs would refuse that)

PLAY A SPELLCASTER

Unfortunatly, 'rogueish' is a limitation here. What do you mean by it, do you need sneak attack or trapfinding or stealth skills or social skills or just want to act like a pirate?

PLAY A SPELLCASTER

[Darrin]

+1, I would skip the Aventi, Just pick up a Greater Crystal of Aquatic Action (MIC PG 25) for 3,000 once you can afford it. It gives you a swim speed of half your base speed, doesn't apply an armor check penalty on swim checks, no penalties on movement or attacks underwater and most importantly lets you breath water as easily as air.


The Greater Crystal of Aquatic Action is just useless bling if you don't have a +3 weapon to attach it to. And I don't mean "+1 weapon with at least +2 enhancements", the weapon itself has to have a +3 before enhancements before you can attach/activate a greater crystal.


What were they smoking when they priced that item? The enchanting items rule says that continous effect spell items should cost spell level X caster level X 2000 gold. That's 3 X 5 X 2000 = 30,000 gold - and that's just for the water breathing spell.


30000 GP is too much, particularly when compared to a Necklace of Adaptation (9000 GP) or Bottle of Air (7250 GP). But I've never been able to figure out how they arrived at those prices via the magic item guidelines... given the 2 hour/CL duration of water breathing, I think they're treating it as a "twice per day" item, CL 7 = 14 hours and then prorating the remaining 10 hours... but even then the math doesn't really work out.

Considering you have to spend at least 18000 GP on a +3 weapon first, though, 3000 GP maybe isn't quite the bargain it appears to be.



I'd just pick a race I want to play and add the Amphibious Template(same book as Aventi) witch is just 0 la and a -2 dex to play w/e you want that is a humanoid or monstrous humanoid.

Amphibious Human is like Aventi, but totally better.

I concur. The bonus feat is more important than the -2 Dex penalty. Take the Dex hit and go with the Amphibious template.

Air Goblin (SRD/UA) might be another option. +4 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Con. No bonus feat, but you never suffocate. Ever. No, not even then.

[The Rabbler]

I say you should go mineral warrior dragonborn water orc (as was suggested earlier) crusader 1/cleric 4/RKV 10/full casting PrC X

[Jornophelanthas]

The higher you level, the more a rogue-ish or fighter-ish type character NEEDS magic items in order to be on the same level as full casters.

Therefore, if your DM is unwilling to hand out magic items (or maybe just a few) you NEED to have some magic of your own.

Here are my suggestions:

- Warlock (found in Complete Arcane):
Very easy to play, because you only have a few powers. However, those powers have unlimited uses, unlike regular spellcasting. You also get to deal damage that grows with level, just like sneak attack. Except it's a ranged attack, against touch AC (easier), and does not depend on the opponent being flanked or flat-footed. Also, you get to wear light armor. The major drawbacks are the small number of powers you get, and the fact that you don't get many skill points.

- Bard:
Very rogue-ish character with many skill points. Also has minor spellcasting (mostly illusion and mind-affecting, as well as some healing), magical bardic music abilities, and can wear light armor. However, bards are not good at dealing damage. Another disadvantage is that most of the bardic music abilities tend to be more useful for fighters and rogues than for spellcasters.

- Monk:
Somewhat rogue-ish, because you get all the acrobatics skills (though not too many skill points). Monks are fast, hard to hit and have good saving throws. They have little magic of their own, but do not depend on (magical) equipment (i.e. you don't even need to wear armor). At higher levels, they can deal reasonable damage, too. The monk has two main disadvantages, though. The first is that there is little synergy between the various class abilities. The second is that the monk needs to invest in multiple ability scores to be decent at everything he does (i.e. Dexterity, Wisdom, Strength, Constitution, probably in that order), whereas a wizard only needs high Intelligence to perform his role well, while a sorcerer only needs high charisma. However, this can be overcome if you can start with four scores of 14 or greater, or if your allies are willing to boost your ability scores with their magic all the time.

[faceroll]

Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater), Dragonborn of Bahamut (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b), Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) (in that order), Level Adjustment Buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). That means you don't have the +1 LA, instead you're down by 3,000 XP. You still only have three class levels, but you'll eventually catch up to the rest of the party.

That starts with the Water Orc ability score adjustments (Str +4, Con +2, Int -2, Wis -2, Cha -2), size and type (medium Humanoid (Orc)), and movement modes (30 ft. land, 30 ft. swim). Dragonborn gets rid of everything else. You get the Dragonborn ability adjustments (Dex -2, Con +2) and traits (pick the Heart aspect) on top of that. Mineral Warrior is added afterward, so nothing is lost due to Dragonborn, so its ability score adjustments (Str +2, Con +4, Int -2, Wis -2, Cha -2), movement modes (Burrow 15 ft.), and traits (Darkvision, DR 8/Adamantine) get added onto the pile.

You end up with a Medium Humanoid (Orc, Dragonblood, Earth) who has movement modes of 30 ft. land, 30 ft. swim, and 15 ft. burrow, ability score adjustments of Str +6, Dex -2, Con +8, Int -4, Wis -4, Cha -4, with +3 natural armor, Darkvision 60 ft., Damage Reduction 8/Adamantine (every physical attack that hits you is reduced by 8 points unless it's an Adamantine weapon), and Dragonborn traits with the Heart aspect. Get the feat Entangling Exhalation from Races of the Dragon, and use that as often as you can to keep as many opponents as possible debuffed by the Entangle effect. Go Crusader from Tome of Battle, get Extra Granted Maneuver, wear heavy armor with a heavy shield, and use your maneuvers and Martial Spirit stance to heal yourself and your allies. Swim over to an enemy ship and burrow through the hull repeatedly to sink it if necessary.

Do what this man says. Race optimization at low levels is like 80% of the game.
Just make sure point buy/your rolls are high (what are your stats?). -4 to all mental abilities is pretty rough.


Giant lobster wants to grapple you to the bottom of the sea? Whatever. Kill him and then burn down his lobster house and have your way with his lobster wife.

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:


PLAY A SPELLCASTER

If you do it right, you can be pushing T3 with just races. See Biff's race build above. You've got flight, burrow, and swim speeds, and a healthy DR. With that much str and con, you've don't need that many enhancement bonuses on your weapons. A few levels of warblade means once per round, you're not failing a will save (thanks, concentration check!), and iron heart surge means even when you do, you'll probably shake it off.

Honestly, not having magic means you're stuck with crappy mundane movement and being unable to properly deal with stuff like rays of "time to lose" and "save or die for a very long time". Iron Heart covers the latter bit sufficiently, imo. That's the biggest issue, in my experience, as long as you're not playing with ludicrous stuff like shapechange or persisted wraithstrike shadow pouncing drow assassins.

Plus, there are two casters in the party already. If they devote their energies to countering the stuff coming out of the business end of a beholder or nightshade, then OP can devote his energies to breaking faces.

[Gice]

I'm suprised nobody mentioned the druid yet. You don't need a lot of items, you can wildshape (not yet, but eventually) into an aquatic creature and have a shark or crocodile as your companion.
Add spellcasting and you'll be awesome.

Not really piratey though :smalltongue:

[Essence_of_War]

Giant lobster wants to grapple you to the bottom of the sea? Whatever. Kill him and then burn down his lobster house and have your way with his lobster wife.


I just laughed VERY inappropriately in my shared office.. Have yourself several cookies.

Edit: Aside, I think there might be issues with Mountain Hammer. All of the Stone Dragon maneuvers have provisions about being on solid ground to initiate. If your gm doesn't care about this (they probably shouldn't, it's a silly restriction on an already weak school) fine, but it is possible that they might care.

[Bard for Kicks]

I'm suprised nobody mentioned the druid yet. You don't need a lot of items, you can wildshape (not yet, but eventually) into an aquatic creature and have a shark or crocodile as your companion.
Add spellcasting and you'll be awesome.

Not really piratey though :smalltongue:

I second the druid. Also, druids are pretty flexible...I'm sure you could make one piratey with your backstory. Also...2 casters of 3 people? Um. Yeah. You need a way to tank. I would not play a full caster.

Also, I like the water orc barbarian thing from the stuff mentioned above. The get nice stats and are amphibious. Now you don't have to waste a spell on water breathing. Also, survivability...so you don't die in your first session.

Oh. If you do play a wiz/sorc you're gonna have to hope that you survive to get polymorph...:smalleek:

[LordBlades]

I second the druid. Also, druids are pretty flexible...I'm sure you could make one piratey with your backstory. Also...2 casters of 3 people? Um. Yeah. You need a way to tank. I would not play a full caster.

Also, I like the water orc barbarian thing from the stuff mentioned above. The get nice stats and are amphibious. Now you don't have to waste a spell on water breathing. Also, survivability...so you don't die in your first session.

Oh. If you do play a wiz/sorc you're gonna have to hope that you survive to get polymorph...:smalleek:

I third the druid: can tank, can cast (so it can keep up with wizard and sorc), and stuff like Warp Wood and Wood Shape can be devastating in a sea-based campaign.

[McStabbington]

I was going to suggest that even though clerics can wear heavy armor, they don't have to. There's nothing in the PH that says clerics can't have a high dex and wear a chain shirt; it's just not optimized to do so. But I think druid works better in this case as well.

[OracleofSilence]

Pssh. Play a warforged with adamantine body. Drowning is for lesser beings. Go warblade with mountain strike that ignores DR and hardness.

yep, gotta say i agree, this is an excellent strategy, and Warblades are fairly easy to play for beginners.

encounter powers that regen by you attacking after using them all? the only question is "where do you sign"?

So, since your DM rewards clever builds... just look around online. There are plenty of interesting things to do with warblade out there, some of them astoundingly cheesy (i would avoid those if i were you, sadistic DM's usually ban with impunity, and being able to attack infinitely is no fun, its just broken).

But any way, Lesse... always take Blood in the Water (a stance), always take the Iron Heart discipline, and always make the most of aptitude weapons. Almost every thing else is just flavor.

Normally, after making that as a new character, i would call it a day, but...


the GM is kind of a sadist

... so i would spend the rest of the day looking for a new GM.:smallwink:

[kharmakazy]

All of the Stone Dragon maneuvers have provisions about being on solid ground to initiate.

AFAIK "ground" isn't defined anywhere. On Dirt? Sure. In a house? That's the ground. 32nd floor of a building? Ground! I say talisman of the disk means never having to say I'm sorry. Barring that, blatantly steal from pirates of the Caribbean and tie bags of dirt to your feet.:smallbiggrin:

Putting your feet on the side of the boat is ground, since the boat has to be ground itself. To support this claim...

A character with Strength 0 falls to the ground
If a boat does not count as ground, then when your strength reaches 0 you fall through the boat (or the 31 floors below you) and land at the bottom of the ocean.

[Alchemistmerlin]

Since when is Tanking something that happens in D&D?

You can't force the enemies to attack the "tank", any intelligent enemy will go after the squishy thing that spews fire first, and then go after the slow metal thing. Trying to adjust your character around totally nonexistent party mechanics seems very silly.

[Bard for Kicks]

I LOVE the druid idea. If you prefer to wild shape more often, just take the Shapeshifter variant...you gain immediate meat shield status.

But, if you do want to be a caster, why not take the Battle Sorcerer variant? Its in Unearthed Arcana. It increases your hit die to D8 and you can wear armor and get some weapon proficiency and stuff in exchange for some spells. You can last in combat but you can still cast like the rest of your team. By the way, if the DM was mean and decided to send a mage-killer type character at you guys, you would all be screwed so I think it would be best to design a character that just whacks things with something sharp :smallsmile:

If your DM is willing to kill you without giving you a chance, I would try to focus on survivability...

[LordBlades]

Since when is Tanking something that happens in D&D?

You can't force the enemies to attack the "tank", any intelligent enemy will go after the squishy thing that spews fire first, and then go after the slow metal thing. Trying to adjust your character around totally nonexistent party mechanics seems very silly.

Well, many enemies tend to go for the armored bear in front of them that's summoning bears while his bear pet is ripping them to shreds.

Druids make good tanks not because they can do much to keep you there, but because they are strong enough that you can't really afford to ignore them.

[kharmakazy]

Since when is Tanking something that happens in D&D?

I tank. I block paths to the squishy ones, I intentionally provoke AoOs from enemies to lessen the chance that a mage gets whacked when he needs to move, I'll grapple a threat so that it can't get to the caster. You can tank in dnd. Nobody likes to do it, everyone wants to be the hero, but you CAN tank.

One of my current tactics is full attacks with thrown harpoons coupled with mountain stance (spell). You put enough harpoons in a caster and they WILL fail one of those dc 15 concentration checks to cast.

[Bard for Kicks]

Well, many enemies tend to go for the armored bear in front of them that's summoning bears while his bear pet is ripping them to shreds.

Druids make good tanks not because they can do much to keep you there, but because they are strong enough that you can't really afford to ignore them.

As adorable as bears tend to be, I wouldn't use one as a pet in a naval setting.
I honestly would just take the shape shift variant because battles on land will prohibit the use of an aquatic companion but battles in the water with a very very very furry bear could mean a dead companion...i mean...fur does drag things down, no? It might be tough only having a companion to fight with you half the time.

[kharmakazy]

As adorable as bears tend to be, I wouldn't use one as a pet in a naval setting.
I honestly would just take the shape shift variant because battles on land will prohibit the use of an aquatic companion but battles in the water with a very very very furry bear could mean a dead companion...i mean...fur does drag things down, no? It might be tough only having a companion to fight with you half the time.

Seal an empty barrel with pitch, put it in a backback and have the bear wear it. Bears in LifeJackets.
http://i.imgur.com/6Yadr.jpg

[Bard for Kicks]

Seal an empty barrel with pitch, put it in a backback and have the bear wear it. Bears in LifeJackets.

Hahahaha thats very creative. Say someone shoots an arrow at the barrel. You've got a dead bear.

[Essence_of_War]

You are just brimming with good ideas today :smallamused:

Edit: You may have a dead bear. You'll also have an ocean ready for burninating.

[The Rabbler]

Edit: You may have a dead bear. You'll also have an ocean ready for burninating.

this is an excellent point and deserves consideration.

[LordBlades]

Polar bears have swim speed

[kharmakazy]

Clearly you need to attach a pully to an immovable rod, have the wizards familiar (or summon) fly it up in the air and activate it. Have the bear harnessed to the other end. Use a portable crane (or some pirates) to lift and swing the bear at enemy ships.

Polar bear uses... Crane style!

[Bard for Kicks]

Sorry to burst a bubble, but there is no way you can get a polar bear at early levels no matter how much you focus your efforts into your animal companion...
Handbook 1 says at lvl 10....and if u take feats, it lowers that...but even then...

[kharmakazy]

Even a black bear at level 4 has +8 to swim IIRC.

[LordBlades]

The polar bear was more of a general answer to 'bears don't work in aquatic campaigns'

Either way, I'd advise against shapechange variant. Wild Shape itself is more powerful than it.

[faceroll]

Since when is Tanking something that happens in D&D?

You can't force the enemies to attack the "tank", any intelligent enemy will go after the squishy thing that spews fire first, and then go after the slow metal thing. Trying to adjust your character around totally nonexistent party mechanics seems very silly.

Trip, grapple, disarm, sunder, attacks of opportunity, reach, constricted battle space (tunnels, on board a ship, sandwiched between walls of iron, etc) are all ways you end up tanking in D&D. Or at least slowing down mage-gank.


Even a black bear at level 4 has +8 to swim IIRC.

And a grizz has +12. Brown bear's are never going to drown in calm water, and only extraordinarily bad luck would drown one in rough water if they were being threatened. The chance of a bear drowning in rough water is astronomically small; 1 in 10^38.

In stormy water, the chance is increased to 1 in 4*10^18.

tl;dr
Bears don't drown.

[joca4christ]

Didn't read through all the posts, so if someone said this already, forgive me.

I have Stormwrack on PDF. It's a pretty cool book. One of the prestige classes is Knight of the Pearl, or something like that. It's a great way to be a cleric or something of that nature, wear full plate, and still be able to function in the water. Pretty cool PrC if ya ask me.

Also, I second Hadozee as a neat race to play. Currently have built a Hadozee scout/swordsage that I'm pretty excited about seeing in action.

:EDIT: Also consider the Darfellan if ya want to tank. While they aren't amphibious, they can Hold Breath and have a swim speed. VERY slow on land, but if you're taking...meh. And they're favored class is Barbarian!


At any rate, happy gaming!

JoCa

[only1doug]

Hello everyone, I am here to request some help making a character. I made one before, but it got killed the first session... I am new to the group (and game) and the other players said to look on forums for help since the GM is kind of a sadist but likes rewarding clever use of abilities. :smallsigh:

Setting information: Eberron, scoundrel type, currently we are on a pirate ship at level 4, and the campaign will be almost completely on the sea.

I would like to be an aventi, (other players said it should help me in the setting.

The other players are currently a sorcerer and a wizard. I would like to play a thief based pirate that needs to be able to hold its own in combat.

Soooo long story short, if anyone can help me with a strong or tricky progression I would greatly appreciate it.

ps: From the first game it seems like we are going to be outnumbered often and the environment kind of screwed us over.

More Information Please:

Do the rest of the crew fight (AKA Mass NPC battle)?
then a mass buffing class has a benefit.

Is it just your group who fight?
group buffs are fairly irrelevent with your group.

Why Thief Type?
with 2 full casters a pure rogue will be overshadowed, you will be useless in most situations and in the few when you can do something the others can probably do something better. (AKA Angel Summoner & BMX Bandit).

"Pirate" is a character description, this can be added to any class by writing background fluff that describes how your character is pirate-like.

[King Atticus]

The Greater Crystal of Aquatic Action is just useless bling if you don't have a +3 weapon to attach it to. And I don't mean "+1 weapon with at least +2 enhancements", the weapon itself has to have a +3 before enhancements before you can attach/activate a greater crystal.


ummm...The Greater Crystal of Aquatic Action is a "Body Slot: — (armor crystal)" item. But your point is still valid, it would have to be put on +3 armor.

[McSmack]

Okay you're new to this so some of the things you'll read here can be overwhelming. Some of the suggested builds will be quite advanced. Powerful as all get-out, but without the system mastery (aka years of experience with the game) they can be hard to do correctly.

One important thing that will be helpful is knowing what sources you're allowed to use. There are dozens of books all filled with classes, feats, prestige classes and other options. So it can be difficult to wade through. Tome of Battle is a sourcebook that is on a lot of DM's "NO!" list. I personally don't agree but that's the way it is.

Secondly, you were looking for a roguey type character, but looking at your party makeup (your wizard and sorcerer friends) you should go with something that can perform multiple roles.

Also you want someone who isn't likely to drown.

So your party needs someone who has:
Good HP
Decent Armor
Skills
Some healing ability
Melee ability

And also you want someone rogue-ish.

My recommendation for you would be a warforged ranger.

Here are some of the benefits:

A) Full attack bonus. You can go into melee or shoot decently well.
B) d8 HD you can definitely take a beating better than the two casters in the group, though not as well as a lot of other classes.
C) You get a nice array of skill points, and can put them in things like Swim.
D) You have access at higher levels to healing spells. As such you can use some wands that have healing spells on them. Which could come in very handy.
E) As a warforged you don't need to eat, sleep or breath, and are immune to more things than you can count.
F) You can choose an aquatic animal companion of some sort or one that has a swim speed to help you out if you get in the water.
G) Ranger fluff (the non-mechanics related stuff that makes a ranger a ranger) is loose enough that it could fit perfectly well as a mariner (a good/horrible example of this is Kevin Cosner in Water World. That dude was probably a ranger).

The downside of this is that rangers are kind of a jack of all trades type. They don't really excell at anything, but can be decent at a lot of things.

From what you've said it doesn't look to me as if your party is interested in optimization (making characters that use/abuse the rules so much they can throw people into the sun or rewrite reality), so I think you'll be just fine playing a ranger.

[Gamer91919]

I really appreciate all the input everyone! I never expected this much help.

I guess I should have clarified about the thief angle though... (Sorry)

My vision is more along the lines of sneaking into a wealthy merchants place and stealing his art/gems/documents as well as into an enemy boat to steal from their stash... If needed I would like to be able to silence any easy opposition while having "tricks" to get away if the battle is not in my favor. The fighting he does would be more in the range of tricking enemies to get a better hit(not sure if this is mechanically or just thematically).

On a better note, I called the GM today to talk some of this over. He said he had expected them to make seamen that could handle swimming for a short time since they wore no armor, but conceded that he should have noticed. He also said that though monsters and people will be attacking that the enemies are tested against (our characters)? in advance and we should be able to beat them if we plan a little.

Magic items will be planned out for each enemy that has them. The GM said that they all have a story and a use, and that he doesn't like to use the random drop method.

He said I should look into rogue/swashbuckler for the way skills stack and due to some feat that lets them move up at the same time? (???)

As for me being a spell caster, the other 2 are already casters so I don't think I would enjoy doing the same. That said I am not apposed to multiclassing, I simply do not want to be a focused caster in the slightest. Perhaps handy spells but... meh...

I have droned on enough I am sorry for this wall of text.

[McSmack]

fighter/rogue might work well for you. Swashbuckler/rogue is also good. From the sound of things I wouldn't go with anything too complicated.

Have you given much thought to races? You're playing in Eberron so you have some neat options.

Shifters get a bonus to Dex which makes them pretty nice for a roguey type.

Changlings are practically built for rogues. Some of their racial fluff is pretty interesting too. Many of them adopt different personalities depending on where they are. So you could have your changling look and act like a half-elf cat burgler while in port and then when things started getting hot, hop on a ship and become a shifter swashbuckler.

Warforged, as mentioned earlier, are six kinds of awesome.

Goblins and hobgoblins make viable PC's in Eberron, since they count as citizens and not monsters in many parts of the world. A goblin pirate sounds like a fun concept.

[Gamer91919]

fighter/rogue migh......
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Changlings are practically built for rogues. Some of their racial fluff is pretty interesting too. Many of them adopt different personalities depending on where they are. So you could have your changling look and act like a half-elf cat burgler while in port and then when things started getting hot, hop on a ship and become a shifter swashbuckler.
....
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Sounds fun, also just noticed seakin while poking around in Races of Destiny... No one likes aventi... lol Looking for another that fits my needs

[Jornophelanthas]

If you go for rogue/swashbuckler, you NEED to work towards taking the "Daring Outlaw" feat at level 6, because this gives you tremendous synergies between the two classes. This feat is probably also what your DM had in mind while giving you the suggestion, so my suggestion is you ask him about it.

[marcielle]

Just throwin this in cos they are cool. Though I think some of the earlier ideas were better.

Elemental grafts from Magic of Eberron
Expensive but slotless, weightless and most importantly, CANNOT BE TAKEN AWAY BY A SADISTIC DM.
Breath of waves is fun because once an hour you can just randomly SPIT at people and say 'I was healing you'. Very costly for what it does though so not so good after all. However, if you suspect you are gonna get marooned, this practicall solves 60% percent of your immediate problems

Oceanic adaption - you should be able to tell its good just by the name.

Aqueous body - awesome for an aquatic rouge. Jump in water and suddenly you are near invisible(if you have pumped hide) and a couple of other goodies.

They add to or even give you swim speed if you have more than 1.

Downsides are that they are expensive early on. And like you said there's no magic mart. However, in a maritime setting, these water grafts MIGHT be popular among rich seacaptains and paranoid traders. See if your DM can cut you some slack since you are new

[NOhara24]

He tried to prompt the casters to try to save me (i hurt the lobster thing pretty bad before it grabbed me and dove into the ocean)

That's pretty brutal. Especially for a first time player. There's a difference between a fair DM and a harsh DM. This guy is just brutal. I wouldn't try to specialize in something with a swim skill, because the possibility of you dying by drowning for a second time is low. (Unless your DM is just horribly uncreative.)

Go for something that can withstand a silly amount of punishment. Conveniently, your party needs a healer. Go cleric.

EDIT: I read the rest of the thread, good luck on your rogue/swashbuckler build.

[only1doug]

I really appreciate all the input everyone! I never expected this much help.

quite welcome, people here are friendly enough (except on Monkdays)


I guess I should have clarified about the thief angle though... (Sorry)

My vision is more along the lines of sneaking into a wealthy merchants place and stealing his art/gems/documents as well as into an enemy boat to steal from their stash... If needed I would like to be able to silence any easy opposition while having "tricks" to get away if the battle is not in my favor. The fighting he does would be more in the range of tricking enemies to get a better hit(not sure if this is mechanically or just thematically).

He said I should look into rogue/swashbuckler for the way skills stack and due to some feat that lets them move up at the same time? (???)


Sounds Like you definitely want a rogue/swashbuckler. Daring Outlaw at L6 for sure.



Magic items will be planned out for each enemy that has them. The GM said that they all have a story and a use, and that he doesn't like to use the random drop method.


this is where it gets painful. what is useful for an NPC won't necessarily help you, you may find that items that would work well for you just don't turn up when you need them. Solution: Make a wishlist of items and pass it to the GM, don't expect everything on it to appear but maybe he'll find a way to include some of them for you occasionally.




Setting information: Eberron, scoundrel type, currently we are on a pirate ship at level 4, and the campaign will be almost completely on the sea.


L4 rogue type...

Race:Warforged Scout

Class:Swashbuckler 3 / Rogue 1

Stat Priorities: Dex & Int then Con, Str, Wis, Cha.

(Point buy or rolled?)

Racial modifiers
–2 Strength,
+2 Dexterity,
–2 Wisdom,
–2 Charisma.

—Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.

—A warforged scout’s base land speed is 20 feet.

L1 should be rogue for Skillpoints,

Swashbuckler 1 gives weapon finesse (Dex instead of str to attack rolls)
Swashbuckler 3 gives +Int to damage with light weapons.

L5 + L6 should both be Rogue so that at L6 you can take the Daring outlaw feat. Now progress either Rogue (for skillpoints) or Swashbuckler (For BAB).

[Your Nemesis]

Wait...was the lobster thing That Damned Crab? Because from its tactics it sure sounded like it...:smalleek:

[Graha013]

I'm in a similar theme and we are using Stormwrack as our core book. Don't underestimate the Shoal halfling as a race, especially for the rogue type. +2 dex is nice, swim speed/water breathing, small size with it's AC bonus.

[Darth Stabber]

Polar bears have swim speed

Crocodiles have a swim speed, and are marginally better grappler than similarly CR'd bears. They aren't as good at normal damage (lacking multiple attacks), but they are good grapplers. Also available in dire for later. In any other situation I would go with bear, but this scenario favors crocs. Just avoid australians in khaki, they get bonuses to grappling reptiles.