Introducing players to ToB, need your help!

[pilvento]

So, next week im gona be the DM of a single night ToB campaing to introduce my friends to the martial sistem.

I want your advice to make this sesion really fun and make them love the book as i do now, its a shame they are lazy to read and 1 of them just cant read english and my only ToB copy here is of course, in english.

Things i need to make this posible:

Since i never played before, and just learned hot to play diamond mind so far... I need you to build their characters for me, exept the warblade, i got that coverd. they builds must be lvl 10, stats are already rolled.

a)Warblade DONE
b)Swordsage PENDING
c)Crusader PENDING

ROLLS! (5d6, drop 2)

a) done
b) 18/16/15/14/12/10
b) 17/17/15/14/14/12

Ill now speak a bit about what players want to find in their characters:

a) as i said warblade is done, int focused duelist Swash3/Warblade7

B) my friend wants a twf assasin (expected) so i guess we will need some tigerclaw+shadowhand here am i right? disp for sneak+craven or a ToB prc?

c) The crusader guy wants to tank, he also want a gish dip here, divine if posible and cha for stat sinergy, i guess crusader/favord soul/divine avenger is not a bad idea? (this is the most dificult build i know)
Salt and pepper:

specific magic equipment? feats?

Maneuver selection: im going to need all of them, i want to be surprised cause im also going to test ToB as a DM.

a short strategy guide for the players

I have less than a week but, its only 2 characters.
I know i can count on the playground for this :smallwink:

Thanks, im expecting your feedback!

EDIT: books available, all complete series, exalted, races (wild, stone etc)

[PollyOliver]

For the warblade--losing 3 levels is not great, especially if you get no casting in return. Even dips are encouraged, since both a 3 and 4 level dip will cost you the same amount of IL. Generally, if you're playing at low levels, dipping out more than 2 levels will lose you a lot in terms of having to play with a full lower level of maneuvers, though. And if you're playing as a 1-weapon duelist, the bonus damage isn't going to be spread out among enough attacks to fully justify it. But if it's what he wants, it's not utterly crippling, just suboptimal. Take a look at swashbuckler ACFs though (maybe arcane stunt?) because you're not getting much out of grace. If he has good dex, and doesn't mind being an elf, warblade 8/champion of corellon 2/eternal blade 10 can be decent for smart, quick warblade, especially since an elven courtblade is finesseable. You lose the warblade capstone, which is fantastic, but the eternal blade one is also awesome.

For the swordsage--you can dip rogue, but you don't have to. You can get craven with the sneak attack dice from assassin's stance. Recommended feats here are shadow blade (dex to damage) and obviously the twf tree. Assassin's stance gives +2d6 sneak attack once you're level 5. Dancing and raging mongoose give extra attacks per weapon, and are great on twf-ers. Pouncing charge is also nice for people with lots of attacks. Cloak of deception and (much later) shadow blink are made of awesome for this kind of character. If you don't mind the power level, a jump into telflammar shadowlord will result in hilarity.

For the crusader. Look at ruby knight vindicator, if you want a crusader/caster thingy. If you suspect your player might abuse it, cap the number of extra swift actions you can gain per round.

Edit:

Fantastic maneuvers

Warblade and crusader--white raven. All of it. If you've got 3 meleers in the party, one with lots of attacks, this is your friend. If they (and even the swordsage) have space to take it, mountain hammer is situationally a lifesaver.

Warblade--the save replacers (especially moment of perfect mind). x-ing mongoose if he has more than one weapon, pouncing charge in general. The tiger claw jump check stun maneuver and white raven hammer are both fantastic later on. Time stands still, if you ever reach that level, is awesome. Wall of blades is awesome. Iron heart surge is great, but you need to decide how you will handle it before he gets there.

Crusader--devoted spirit. Only he gets it, and he should take advantage.

Swordsage--cloak of deception, the shadow teleportation line, x-ing mongoose, pouncing charge, and the save replacers are fantastic. Again, time stands still if you get that far. The +damage desert wind boosts are decent until later levels where everything has fire resist. At low levels, child of shadow stance gives concealment (though, not hide-able) and island of blades makes it easier to flank for more sneak attack. Distracting ember summons a flanking partner as a swift action--again, more sneak attack. Counter charge and baffling defense are good for defense.

[pilvento]

Thats a good start, (takes notes)

As i said charecters will be lvl 10 so the "multiclass will lose your capstone" dont apply. And making sub optimal characters is also the main idea so they dont leave the table thinking ToB is OP .

Keep it coming!

[PollyOliver]

Thats a good start, (takes notes)

As i said charecters will be lvl 10 so the "multiclass will lose your capstone" dont apply. And making sub optimal characters is also the main idea so they dont leave the table thinking ToB is OP .

Keep it coming!

Okay. There are some great level 5 maneuvers out there, though, so I would honestly encourage them to take at least 9 levels of their initiator class, unless you think this would make them think ToB is too powerful. If your warblade takes swash 3/warblade 7 he'll miss out on pouncing charge which can be really nice. But he'll still get some good stuff, too.

At that level, a swordsage in assassin's stance using pouncing charge and leaping flame to move around, cloak of deception to hide, a teammate to flank (plus the teammate's white raven benefits), and dancing mongoose for extra attacks with a low level desert wind boost for a little bonus damage and defensive maneuvers like counter charge, baffling defense, and mind over body, will get a lot of attacks per round and get their bonus damage on most of them. Feats to consider (you won't be able to take them all) are twf, itwf, snap kick, shadow blade, weapon finesse, craven, and adaptive style.

I'm less experienced with crusaders, honestly. But a level of cleric and into RKV (or crusader 1/cleric 4/rkv 4) should pretty much just take care of itself.

[OracleofSilence]

I would say one player (the swordsage) should go Gish, taking blatantly magical set of stuff (Desert Wind for damage/Setting Sun for battlefield control). and basically become a Gish. Have the Warblade be a warblade. Just act in a tankish and aggressive manner, going for, essentially an uberfighter. The crusader should act as a Paladin/tank. they can increase party effectiveness and etc.

[Person_Man]

I highly suggest using the maneuver cards (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) on the WotC website. (Which, coincidentally, allow anyone to read the bulk of the book). They're extremely handy for keeping track of things.

[pilvento]

I highly suggest using the maneuver cards (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) on the WotC website. (Which, coincidentally, allow anyone to read the bulk of the book). They're extremely handy for keeping track of things.

Thanks, i was looking for the link. ill print them now :smalltongue:

[Endarire]

I introduced Tome of Battle to one of my groups by having 3 helpful NPCs aid the party, a Swordsage2, a Warblade2, and a Crusader2.

I had my players run these characters to understand the system.

Starting your characters at level 10 is a lot if you want the group to learn the system. I understood things better since I read the book and consulted the boards. If your group has trouble understanding English, they're at a bigger disadvantage.

I rely on maneuver cards. I tape the printouts to index cards (6 inches by 4 inches). That way everyone knows how each maneuver is recovered.

Warblade Cards
Swordsage Cards
Crusader Cards (White Backs)
Stance Cards

These cards are personal to the character, meaning a Warblade/Wizard/Jade Phoenix Mage may have red Devoted Spirit and Desert Wind maneuvers. (He recovers these maneuvers as a Warblade.)

As for level 10 builds, I advise WhirlPounce Barbarian1/Warblade9, Cleric4/Crusader1/Ruby Knight Vindicator5 (or Crusader4/Cleric1/RKV5), and Unarmed Swordsage9/WhirlPounce Barbarian1. Play each class to its strengths and emphasize the maneuvers.

[elliott20]

I would scale the starting level of the characters back from 10 to 3. Level 10 ANYTHING is going to be hard to pick up for people who can't be bothered to read the book, no matter what.

At level 3 (or even lower) you have just less to deal with.

But if you're insisting on the level 10, just make them straight up characters. The process of figuring out new classes will be plenty hard as it is.

[Eldariel]

Crusader is supereasy:
Crusader 1/Cleric 4/Ruby Knight Vindicator 5

That's pretty much the by-the-book Gish and it's really good. Use divine buffs (he has caster level 8; could be Favored Soul but FS doesn't get Turn Undead so it doesn't qualify for RKV directly), smack face with maneuvers, profit. You have Initiator Level 8 too, which is quite sufficient.

Warblade, well, that's a decent shell. Straight Warblade might be slightly better but that's not terrible. Do note that the damage from Swashbuckler is precision damage which can be vexing. The first level "Sapphire Nightmare Blade" makes opponents flat-footed which qualifies you for the Int-damage from Battle Cunning. It's still, of course, only a 1st level maneuver and thus less powerful than higher level options but a neat synergy, regardless.

Swordsage, could be straight Swordsage really, or like Rogue 3/Swordsage 7 (with Penetrating Strike). The Barbarian-dip Endarire mentioned is fine; combined with Bounding Assault-maneuver from Diamond Mind you can make a full attack from almost any position. Really though, Assassin Swordsage really just wants some solid damage, some positioning maneuvers and gets some magicks from Shadow Hand and possibly Desert Wind.

[kharmakazy]

Seconding Index cards++

They make everything super simple.


I keep one stack with stances, the active one being on top (paper clipped together) With the name and description.

Then all the others I format like so
http://i.imgur.com/1vLju.jpg

I keep prepared ones in one stack, unprepared ones in a different stack off the table.

Used ones go in a pile face down.

[PollyOliver]

Thirding/fourthing/whatevering the cards, especially for the crusader. That way he can just shuffle and draw, instead of having to assign them all numbers and roll or whatever.

[Gabe the Bard]

I would scale the starting level of the characters back from 10 to 3.

This is good advice. Even starting at level 1 wouldn't be a bad idea if you're using the book for the first time.

I've found that the best way to get the players interested in the book is to use maneuvers against them. If their attack bounces off the enemy's Wall of Blades, they'll look up that maneuver and may use it themselves. That's also a good way to introduce them to using Counters.

[Darth_Versity]

Got to agree with everyone saying to scale down to a lower level. Level 3 gives enough HP to survive and plenty of options with ToB characters. If you really want them stronger then go for level 5, but i agree that 10 is to much, it'll be so much to take in that most people would reject it as to complicated.

[pilvento]

Got to agree with everyone saying to scale down to a lower level. Level 3 gives enough HP to survive and plenty of options with ToB characters. If you really want them stronger then go for level 5, but i agree that 10 is to much, it'll be so much to take in that most people would reject it as to complicated.

Yes, you all may be right...

We can play lvl 5 first and try more op characters other time

[kharmakazy]

Yeah, I started with a warblade 7 and had to do the math a few times to figure out how many manuevers of each level I could have due to exchanging on what.. even levels? I wound up drawing a little othello type chart.

[dspeyer]

Okay. There are some great level 5 maneuvers out there, though, so I would honestly encourage them to take at least 9 levels of their initiator class

8 levels. The 2 other levels will collectively add 1 IL.

[dspeyer]

For the crusader gish, I might suggest bard 4 / crusader 4 / jade phoenix mage 2. Bard is arcane, but still fairly mystical in flavor and can heal. It means you don't need wisdom.

It also means you only give up one point of BAB. With Song of the White Raven you can get +2 inspire courage as a swift action and Words of Creation makes that +4. The social skills could prove handy, too.