Looking Into Gaming Computers

[Koury]

Not sure if this should be here, or in Gaming.

I am planing on buying a nice gaming computer at some point in the not too distant future and have began to look into different things reguarding them.

Or at least, I would be if I knew where to begin.

Basically, I know that the video card is pretty much the most importiant (and expensive) part of a good gaming computer, but I'm completly in the dark reguarding them. I don't know if a Radeon 12345 is better or equal to a GeForce OneMillion, or really what I would need at all in this area.

I want my computer to run games like Skyrim and Civ 5 and Diablo 3 without issue, preferably at good/max settings with no framerate issues.

Can anyone give me any sort of guidance in this area? Is what I'm looking for possible while sticking in the $1000-$1500 range?

[Erloas]

The first question is are you planning on building the computer yourself or buying one already made? The difference in power between the two at a $1000 budget is quite a lot.
Its really easy to build your own PC and that would be my first recommendation. It also gives everyone a lot more flexibility in what they recommend because you aren't limited to what HP/Dell/Etc decided to build.

Here is a good link to video cards (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card-game-performance-radeon-hd-6670,2935.html) as they are right now, with their recommendations on price points. However, equally valuable, especially if you are looking at a pre-made is the Graphics Card Hierarchy Chart at the end that gives you a guideline about how the various models compare to eachother.

And here is an example of what you could expect to see (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-a-pc,2969.html) if you build a computer yourself for ~$1000.

Also is your budget $1000-1500 budget including monitor, keyboard, speakers, and mouse or are those extra because they can easily add a couple hundred to a build.

[Koury]

I wasn't including a monitor in that price, no. I know that will be a bit extra. Speakers slipped my mind, but I'd like some sound. :smalltongue:

As for pre-built vs DIY, I could build a computer like six years ago, but haven't messed around with doing that for a long time now. If things are fairly similar, I am down with trying it again. I've seen some decent prebuilts on Newegg though (I think they're decent, at least. Link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100006736&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=Gaming&page=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&CompareItemList=10%7C83-229-217%5E83-229-217-TS%2C83-229-232%5E83-229-232-TS%2C83-227-328%5E83-227-328-TS).)

Now I'm off to read through those links. Thanks. :smallsmile:

[littlebottom]

well i recently (read little over 6 months ago) bought myself a gaming PC, cost me £1000 almost exactly plus monitor. i was going to go for a better graphics card by Nvidea, but ended up having to settle for ATI since they didnt have the Nvidea i wanted. was a bit bummed by that to be honest. but either way, still works like a charm and runs any game ive put on it so far at max settings with no direct trouble (a couple ive had trouble with online, but due to internet issues as opposed to computer issues)

if i had a bigger budget i would of stretched up to £1500 but not much higher since it hits a point where you will pay a lot more for a little upgrade, and those will also come down in value so quickly its not funny, all this said, im happy in a years time to drop a few hundred on it upgrading the graphics card or RAM or somesuch. i think you dont have to spend "big" to get very good. although if you spend really big, you will get the best of the best now, but within a year your computer will be worth half the price :smalltongue:

[deuxhero]

Speakers slipped my mind, but I'd like some sound. :smalltongue:

If you aren't an audiophile, Decent enough speakers can be gotten off the rack for under 10 bucks at an electronics store or (in my case) Big Lots.

[Koury]

well i recently (read little over 6 months ago) bought myself a gaming PC, cost me £1000 almost exactly plus monitor. i was going to go for a better graphics card by Nvidea, but ended up having to settle for ATI since they didnt have the Nvidea i wanted. was a bit bummed by that to be honest. but either way, still works like a charm and runs any game ive put on it so far at max settings with no direct trouble (a couple ive had trouble with online, but due to internet issues as opposed to computer issues)

if i had a bigger budget i would of stretched up to £1500 but not much higher since it hits a point where you will pay a lot more for a little upgrade, and those will also come down in value so quickly its not funny, all this said, im happy in a years time to drop a few hundred on it upgrading the graphics card or RAM or somesuch. i think you dont have to spend "big" to get very good. although if you spend really big, you will get the best of the best now, but within a year your computer will be worth half the price :smalltongue: Good to know. That plus the articles posted above make me feel like I'm not too far off in my expected price range.


If you aren't an audiophile, Decent enough speakers can be gotten off the rack for under 10 bucks at an electronics store or (in my case) Big Lots. My old computer had a decent sound set up, but I'm more then happy with just two decent speakers to start. After all, the main appeal of a desktop for me is being able to upgrade as needed/money comes in. :smallsmile:

So any tips/things I should look for if I go the DIY route? Places to avoid ordering from? Things like that?

[Erloas]

As for pre-built vs DIY, I could build a computer like six years ago, but haven't messed around with doing that for a long time now. If things are fairly similar, I am down with trying it again. I've seen some decent prebuilts on Newegg though (I think they're decent, at least. Link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100006736&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=Gaming&page=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&CompareItemList=10%7C83-229-217%5E83-229-217-TS%2C83-229-232%5E83-229-232-TS%2C83-227-328%5E83-227-328-TS).)
If you've built one 6 years ago about the only thing that has changed is the fact that ribbon cables have been replaced by SATA, and depending on which processor you used before the socket might be a bit different. Not much has changed overall.
As for CyberPowerPC, I haven't heard much good about them. They have decent prices but use cheap parts.


i was going to go for a better graphics card by Nvidea, but ended up having to settle for ATI since they didnt have the Nvidea i wanted. was a bit bummed by that to be honest.
Well going from Nvidia to ATI is not necessarily a downgrade, as they are evenly matched along the whole price range and have been for the most part for years. Which isn't to say you didn't get a less powerful ATI card, I just don't want anyone to think ATI makes inferior cards, because they don't.


If you aren't an audiophile, Decent enough speakers can be gotten off the rack for under 10 bucks at an electronics store or (in my case) Big Lots.
I would say for a gaming PC 5.1 speakers are a must. The games that put the extra channels to good use just make everything that much better. I know I use my speakers for enemy location quite often, especially when they are behind you. Of course not everyone has room for the rear speakers, but I would at least get a decent headset or 2.1 speaker system, which are more in the range of $20/40 respectively.

[Triaxx]

3BTech is my goto for computer parts. Cheaper than NewEgg, even though they don't always have the latest and greatest. Shipping is included in the price for standard ground.

And they're very quick. I ordered a mouse and had it two days later, even USPS.

I built my entire computer from there for a little less than $700 a couple of years ago.

[Starwulf]

if you can build it yourself, for 1k, you'll have an AWESOME computer, and for 1500, well...yeah, it'll run anything at top settings for a good time to come. I have been fantasizing about getting a new computer lately(no money to do so though), and I went part shopping on Newegg about 3-4 months ago, and for 800 bucks I had a quad core i5 processor that was 3.2ghz per core, a motherboard that it could fit in, 6 or 8 gigs of ram(don't fully remember), a GTX 500 series card(I'll be honest, I don't remember which series), Windows 7, 1tb HD, 750 Watt power source, and a blu-ray drive, all for under 750 bucks. 1k will get you an i7 and probably the second or third most powerful NVIDIA graphics card, and likely have a bit left-over. 1500 will allow you to max out your processor and graphics card easily and probably run 12 gigs of RAM and a 1,000 Watt power source to boot, and again, probably money left-over.

[Kageru]

As far as I know the i5 2500k has the best price/perfomance ratio at the moment. Amds bulldozer are supposed to come out soon but I have no idea how they will perform compared to a current intel cpu.

If you still have place in your budget at the end you could buy an ssd for windows and some programs. But the gb price is still high so waiting for a few years doesn't hurt.
Oh and I would recommend to everyone to use 2(or 3) monitors. It's quite nice, especially when you are playing civ5 with a slow person (I put civ 5 into window mode, resize it to fit the monitor and do other things on my second monitor while I wait for the next turn.)

[Koury]

OK, I'm about ready to start actually picking out pieces for my computer. Just a couple more questions. Well, two for now, but more to come as the come up.

Should I try and get an i7 over an i5 processer? What else should I consider in this area?

I want to be able to, if I so choose, plug my tower into my TV via an HDMI cord. How do I know a given part supports something like that? Is it actually as useful as it seems in the first place?

[Erloas]

I'm pretty sure the i7 is within your budget. What I would do to start with though is pick out everything else and then look at what you have left for the motherboard and processor. The trade off between spending a bit more on the processor compared to the video card isn't an exact science sort of thing. And as long as you go quad-core you'll be fine with either processor line.

Virtually every video card now has either direct HDMI out or a DVI to HDMI connector with it. And its a good idea, its the easiest way to go. However its a bit harder to get a setup that will do audio over the HDMI cable as well, I know some video cards support it but not all of them do and the short version is that I haven't looked into it enough to say much more then that about it.

[littlebottom]

OK, I'm about ready to start actually picking out pieces for my computer. Just a couple more questions. Well, two for now, but more to come as the come up.

Should I try and get an i7 over an i5 processer? What else should I consider in this area?

I want to be able to, if I so choose, plug my tower into my TV via an HDMI cord. How do I know a given part supports something like that? Is it actually as useful as it seems in the first place?

My before mentioned PC has an i7, so i would go for it if i was you, even a low end i7 is beyond a higher end i5, and as you saw, ive already listed the price it cost me.

Also as i have noticed someone picked up on from my post, ATI isnt nessisarily worse than Nvidia, BUT the Nvidia card i wanted could run in 3D aswell, the ATI couldnt, also, the Nvidia allowed for 3 simmilar graphics cards to run at once, the ATI only allowed 2. basically i wanted the Nvidia incase i happed to pick up a 3D game (which... i did, crysis 2, but obviously cant play it in 3D) and rather than "buying a graphics card to replace the old one" i can "buy a graphics card to go with the old one" twice, thus extending its useful life.

as for the TV as a monitor, its not really as useful as it sounds, but its damn fun. for most PCs now a days will indeed run on a HDMI output if you wish, so just get a HDMI cable and plug it into your TV should work fine.

its not as useful as it sounds, unless your just using a small glorified TV as a large HDMI monitor anyway:smalltongue: But depending on games and such you can use your computer hooked up to the TV and play, but i feel thats awkward with a keyboard and mouse.

It IS useful however for things like powerpoint presentations... dont expect you to do that though, but its also useful, if your into it, running streams or videos/films from youtube or whatever on your tv instead of your monitor, buuuuuut most streams quality are far far far insuperior even the HDMI ones, since they just dont usually scale up to the size of the TV and keep the image clear. thats my opinion though.

[Koury]

Lets see here...

{table=head]Part | Item | Price
Motherboard | ASUS P8P67 Pro Intel P67 Motherboard | $142
CPU | Intel Core i5-2500K BX80623I52500 Unlocked Processor | $220
RAM | Corsair XMS 8GB DDR3 RAM | $80
Video Card | EVGA GeForce GTX 560 | $200
Sound Card | Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer | $40
HDD | Seagate Barracuda 1TB | $44
DVD Burner | Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD Burner | $21
Case | {Yes} | ~$100 (?)
Power Supply | {Yes} | ~$70 (?)[/table] Total cost: $917

Prices straight off Google, not checked any further then that so far.

So, hows that seem so far? How do I know if a case is right for my equipment? I also don't know about power supplies, really. Also, how do I know for sure the motherboard works with everything?

I feel like some of my questions are super basic and silly, but I'm asking anyway. :smallredface:

EDIT: OK, changing it to an i7 raises it about $40, so $957. You guys ninja'd me. :smalltongue:

[littlebottom]

Lets see here...

{table=head]Part | Item | Price
Motherboard | ASUS P8P67 Pro Intel P67 Motherboard | $142
CPU | Intel Core i5-2500K BX80623I52500 Unlocked Processor | $220
RAM | Corsair XMS 8GB DDR3 RAM | $80
Video Card | EVGA GeForce GTX 560 | $200
Sound Card | Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer | $40
HDD | Seagate Barracuda 1TB | $44
DVD Burner | Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD Burner | $21
Case | {Yes} | ~$100 (?)
Power Supply | {Yes} | ~$70 (?)[/table] Total cost: $917

Prices straight off Google, not checked any further then that so far.

So, hows that seem so far? How do I know if a case is right for my equipment? I also don't know about power supplies, really. Also, how do I know for sure the motherboard works with everything?

I feel like some of my questions are super basic and silly, but I'm asking anyway. :smallredface:

EDIT: OK, changing it to an i7 raises it about $40, so $957. You guys ninja'd me. :smalltongue:

trust me, once youve got an i7 with 8 cores or more, you will never know how you lived with duel core let alone single.

I approve on the RAM, since DDR is the right way to go.

the GeForce series of video cards are tried and tested good, but last time i looked up the stats for such things was when i bought my computer, so i could be behind in the times here.

soundcard - doesnt matter i tend to find that sound cards are not as important as long as they support surround sound and stuff they are generally pretty much all the same. in my opinion of course.

1TB is all you need. i could of opted for much more, but the price doesnt justify it. what MAY be worth it is looking into SDDs (i think they are called) basically its a HDD that doesnt spin and loads faster, although currently they are smaller in size than normal HDDs for the same price. but its a personal thing.

case, whatever you like as long as the motherboard fits it.

motherboard is a .... huh. moment with me, not yours, just in general, i dont get them as far as im concerned as long as youve got enough space to stick in a feckload of ram and all the other bits its fine. im sure someone with more knowledge can help here.

the power... now this is much trickier than it sounds. depending on what you are doing with your machine, IE its mother board, its RAM, its HDD its graphics cards, its fans etc etc etc etc it eats up different ammounts of power. you may have to check with someone who can tell you in detail how much your machine will use and buy the apropriate power supply too big and your wasting electricity, too small and the thing wont work at full capacity, or might downright not work.

[Erloas]

Any mid-tower case will work just fine, which is about 90% of what is on the market. The only ones that won't work is the small micro-atx cases.

As for power supplies, Corsair, Antec, OCZ, PC Power and Cooling, SeaSonic, and FSP are all good brands. I know there are others too, but those are the ones that came to mind fairly quickly. If you aren't planning on running dual video cards then you should be fine at around 500W, if you want to be able to upgrade to Crossfire/SLI later (which your motherboard supports) then you should look at about 800+ Watts. And don't expect to pay less then about $50 or $100 for ones of those respective sizes. A good rule of thumb is that if its really cheap... its really cheap and you don't want it. If you find a 700W supply for $30 then chances are its crap.

I don't really feel that dedicated sound cards are worth it any more. Years ago they were but now the onboard sound is good and there is no performance penalty for using it. Unless you plan on using features of the video card that aren't available onboard then I would save the money.


edit: to expand a little on what littlebottom said:
As for the hard drive, 1TB is fine, though its not a bad idea to look at getting 2 identical drives and RAIDing them for increased performance. You run a bit more of a risk of data loss though because you have two potential drives to fail instead of one, though of course you should be backing up anyway and there is nothing saying two drives are much more likely to not outlive the system as just one. A SSD is also a pretty good thing to look at if you don't mind spending the $200 or so for them. They really increase boot speeds, but they tend to be small so in general you don't install much more then your OS and commonly used applications on them and have most everything else on a secondary normal hard drive.

[Koury]

A lot of good info here and I appreciate it.

What it Crossfire, exactly? I see it mentioned fairly often, but don't really know what it is.

As far as sound, my girlfriend got me this headset (http://www.trittonusa.com/index.php/products/gaming_audio_technology/ax-720/) for my birthday last week, and they say they need an optical/digital port, USB port or sound card with sterio input/output, so as long as I'm covered there, I don't care much further then that right now.

Is the video card I have there a good choice? What is there to consider that I may not have?

[littlebottom]

A lot of good info here and I appreciate it.

What it Crossfire, exactly? I see it mentioned fairly often, but don't really know what it is.

As far as sound, my girlfriend got me this headset (http://www.trittonusa.com/index.php/products/gaming_audio_technology/ax-720/) for my birthday last week, and they say they need an optical/digital port, USB port or sound card with sterio input/output, so as long as I'm covered there, I don't care much further then that right now.

Is the video card I have there a good choice? What is there to consider that I may not have?

Crossfire is using 2 ATI graphics cards, SLI is using 2 or 3 Nvidia graphics cards.

the video card, i cant say if its great, i know that its reasonably decent (or believe it to be) but without further research on it, i couldnt tell you. wait for better advice on this.

what to consider that you may not have, keyboard and mouse and monitor, no really, keyboards and mice designed for gaming, not the "ooh look flashy buttons" ones so much as the "less delay, less chance of messing up, more accurate" ones.

[factotum]

trust me, once youve got an i7 with 8 cores or more, you will never know how you lived with duel core let alone single.


i7 doesn't have eight cores--it has four cores that appear as 8 via hyper-threading. And since this is a gaming computer, how many games will even make full use of 4 cores, let alone 8?

[Starwulf]

i7 doesn't have eight cores--it has four cores that appear as 8 via hyper-threading. And since this is a gaming computer, how many games will even make full use of 4 cores, let alone 8?

while there aren't A LOT of games that make use of multiple cores, the number of games that do so are beginning to increase, and will continue to do so over the next year or two as more and more people begin to upgrade to the i3/i5/i7 series and quad-core and up become the norm for nearly everyone. The only reason they haven't thus far is because many people still cling to the older single/dual core models since the more powerful ones of those can still handle most new things, albeit on lowest settings. That time is starting to end though, and with it, gaming requirements on a PC will start to climb until a Dual Core is a min requirement, and quad-core is recommended, with some games have a 6-core recommend. If you're in the market for a new PC right this moment, I would certainly suggest/recommend snagging a quad-core PC, that way you won't have to upgrade anytime soon(especially if you're one of the aforementioned people who hang onto their old systems for years past their realistic expiration date)

[Koury]

Is there any practical advantage to using multiple video cards? Should I decided to go this route in the future, what, if anything, should I do now to make sure its easy to upgrade later?

Speaking of multiple devices, what do I need to do should I decide to use multiple monitors (besides have two monitors :smalltongue:)? I don't think I'll be starting off there, but its an idea I've always liked.

Basically, I want to be able to upgrade my system as hassle free as possible and don't want any poor choices I make now to cause any trouble later.

[factotum]

If you're in the market for a new PC right this moment, I would certainly suggest/recommend snagging a quad-core PC, that way you won't have to upgrade anytime soon

Some i5s *are* quad-core. Admittedly, not the 2500 he mentioned in his spec--that's a dual-core that pretends to be 4. (Intel should really be a bit more logical with their naming scheme, IMHO).

[Erloas]

As far as sound, my girlfriend got me this headset (http://www.trittonusa.com/index.php/products/gaming_audio_technology/ax-720/) for my birthday last week, and they say they need an optical/digital port, USB port or sound card with sterio input/output, so as long as I'm covered there, I don't care much further then that right now.
Stereo input/output is as basic an audio connection as you can get, it is standard headphone and mic connections. Obviously your MB will also have USB, and the motherboard you picked also has an optical (not sure if the other is analog or digital) S/PDIF port which I'm pretty sure is what they are asking for. So you should have at least 2 if not all 4 of the possible connections that the headset can use.


i7 doesn't have eight cores--it has four cores that appear as 8 via hyper-threading. And since this is a gaming computer, how many games will even make full use of 4 cores, let alone 8?
A lot of games do now. The drop from 3+ cores to 2+ cores is fairly large, though there aren't too many that gain a whole lot from 3 to 4 cores at this point. I can't think of exact examples at this point but just a few days ago I read a performance review for Duke Nukem Forever, it wouldn't boot with a single CPU, and there was about a 80% increase going from dual core to triple core, and about a 10% change going from triple to quad.


Is there any practical advantage to using multiple video cards? Should I decided to go this route in the future, what, if anything, should I do now to make sure its easy to upgrade later?More graphical power. Its not a straight upscale, so 2x cards don't give 2x the performance, but its a decent increase in many games. The question is if it is a great advantage to you. The video card you have will run almost everything at 1920x1080 with everything turned up, it might have a few issues with the highest end games like Metro 2033 and Crysis 2, but it will pretty much just mean running at 4xAA instead of 16xAA or something like that, ie a slight decrease from the top settings, not even into the mid range settings yet. Now running on dual monitors or much larger resolution monitors (resolution is the key here, TVs, even the 64" ones run at the same resolution as your standard 22-26" computer monitor) then you'll probably need crossfire/SLI to keep at the higher settings.


Speaking of multiple devices, what do I need to do should I decide to use multiple monitors (besides have two monitors :smalltongue:)? I don't think I'll be starting off there, but its an idea I've always liked.

Basically, I want to be able to upgrade my system as hassle free as possible and don't want any poor choices I make now to cause any trouble later.You're video card will support at least 2 monitors right out of the box, so nothing to do there. Using two monitors at once is nothing, though I'm not actually sure how Nvidia handles running a game across two monitors, as opposed to having the game on one monitor and a normal desktop on the other. I think it does it out of the box but it might be one of those features they reserve for certain cards and I haven't looked into it enough to say much more about it right now.

As for upgrades, if you get your RAM as 2x4GB sticks (instead of 4x2GB, which I'm pretty sure you did but the name you provided is generic enough to not know 100% for sure from here) then you can upgrade that without any problems.
You can upgrade to lots of hard drives easily, as long as you get a case that will hold more, but its uncommon to find a mid-tower case that doesn't hold at least 4.
Your motherboard supports SLI so you can upgrade to SLI easily enough as long as you have a power supply powerful enough. And as I said earlier, you'll probably want 700-800W for an SLI setup.

[tyckspoon]

Some i5s *are* quad-core. Admittedly, not the 2500 he mentioned in his spec--that's a dual-core that pretends to be 4. (Intel should really be a bit more logical with their naming scheme, IMHO).

It is, actually. Most of the i5 second-gen line are quads; the only desktop-line one that I know that isn't (2390T by model) is a high energy-efficiency model (that's what the T means) that they make so manufacturers can claim they have an i5 in those underpowered econobox systems.



I think it does it out of the box but it might be one of those features they reserve for certain cards and I haven't looked into it enough to say much more about it right now.

All of the cards will do it if the games support it, premised of course on the card itself being powerful enough to render the expanded resolution. The game just has to scale to nonstandard resolutions properly. Mind, with just 2 monitors in full span you get the problem that the display drivers don't really know how to compensate for the physical bezels of the monitor, and your center viewpoint tends to be right in the middle where you don't actually have video at all because of it. Takes a bit to get used to.

[GungHo]

Is there any practical advantage to using multiple video cards? Should I decided to go this route in the future, what, if anything, should I do now to make sure its easy to upgrade later?
If the game you're playing takes advantage of it, sure. Most shooters and AAA titles will. If all you're going to play is WoW, Fallout 1, and Exile, though, it's a waste. For the games you initially mentioned, it should be noticable.

However, the advantages you get out of it are more logarithmic than additive, and you'll only really see once you try running at higher resolutions... if your monitor is running at or below 720p (1280x720) or even 1080p (1920x1080), you're not going to see much of a difference. If you get a 30in monitor, though, and run at 2560x1600, you'll see the difference.

Personally, and this was a few years ago, it ended up being a pain in the ass and was unstable due to both nVidia driver issues and heat, so I run with one powerful card and I'm happier that way. That being said, I imagine it's a lot more stable now and a lot of enthusiast cases designed in the last few years have pretty good airflow.

Speaking of which... I noticed you were originally going to look at an unlocked processor, but weren't going to buy any additional cooling, so I'm guessing you're not planning to try to overclock it (I'm not suggesting you do so, just making an observation). Not sure why you'd pay a premium for an unlocked processor if you aren't going to overclock it, though. If you are going to overclock it, I do suggest you go with cooling that's a little beyond the stock cooler, as otherwise you may run into heat issues pretty quickly.


All of the cards will do it if the games support it, premised of course on the card itself being powerful enough to render the expanded resolution. The game just has to scale to nonstandard resolutions properly. Mind, with just 2 monitors in full span you get the problem that the display drivers don't really know how to compensate for the physical bezels of the monitor, and your center viewpoint tends to be right in the middle where you don't actually have video at all because of it. Takes a bit to get used to.
Yeah, this is when you want to start looking at SLI/Crossfire, and frankly if you're going to try to display across two monitors, you might as well make it three, as that center bezel is a pain, even for monitors with very thin bezels. You can put in a freaking million dollar Viz wall for showing something like 3D seismic data, and that bezel line that's <5mm is still going to draw your eye if you're OCD.

[Koury]

Well, turns out I'm going to be heading to Vegas in a few weeks for some work, followed by heading out to Palm Springs for some work so I won't be making ny purchases just yet. In early September, when I get back, I most certainly will, however.

That being said, I'm still very much interested in the things being talked about here.

Regarding multiple monitors, it is not so much to play a single game across both screens that interests me as much as its for things like Kageru having Civ running in windowed mode sized to fit one screen and then doing other things while the opponent takes their turn. Also, thats on the "future upgrade" list, as opposed to something I'm worrying about starting out with.

As far as things like cooling needs, well, thats why I'm here asking questions of you guys. I know you will notice these things and bring them up. I, honestly, hadn't even thought about cooling, silly as that may sound. :smalleek:

Out of curiosity, how much does you guys personal "dream gaming machine" cost, not including monitor(s)? Like, if you had plenty of extra money (but not necessarily unlimited, so you still weigh performance against price to some degree) and were looking into a gaming computer, what would you get?

[factotum]

Regarding multiple monitors, it is not so much to play a single game across both screens that interests me as much as its for things like Kageru having Civ running in windowed mode sized to fit one screen and then doing other things while the opponent takes their turn.

Ah! Well, that is the sort of thing that really WILL benefit from having lots of cores in your CPU, because the game can run on some while whatever other stuff you're doing takes up the rest. (Although I don't know how many cores the various Civ games can take advantage of).

As for the question about dream gaming PC, I probably wouldn't get it even if I had the money. I'm a big proponent of the "good enough" theory, and I reckon you can put together a machine with 80% of the performance of an absolute top-end system for a fraction of the price. As long as you can run the games you want to play at a reasonably smooth frame rate, you're fine.

[Erloas]

If you just want to run a game on one monitor and do something else on the other then you don't have to do anything. Any video card will support that and its actually almost completely controlled via the OS and the card doesn't have much to do with it. I keep meaning to do that but I don't feel like redesigning my entire desk space to make room for another monitor, and I haven't been playing nearly enough games lately anyway.

As for the cooling, it only matters if you are planning on overclocking or are specifically designing for an extra quite system, since you can get after market coolers that are quieter then the box coolers. For overclocking it mostly depends on how much you want to push things.

On my computer I did a $30 cooler that is both quieter and better cooling then the stock one but I didn't OC that much, I did a simple 3.0GHz to 3.6GHz, taking the FSB from 333MHz to 400MHz (so no OCing the RAM, not pushing the northbridge) and with the C2D line of chips being so OC friendly (lots of overhead in design versus sold-as specs) I was actually able to lower the stock voltage on the processor. So my effective heat and power increase was almost nothing, with the lower voltage pretty much completely canceling out the increased speed.

I haven't actually looked into OCing on the i5/i7s though. I'm not sure how much its changed since they changed the way it processor interfaces with the FSB and the RAM. I know its still not hard, I just don't know much of the specifics of it.


As for my dream computer... well seeing as how I can afford pretty much whatever I want at this point, I've found that I'm never one to really push things. I'm not playing enough to justify a $2000 machine, and a lot of the gains from those high end systems are really dependent on what you are doing. I've got a 26" monitor and I just don't see the cost increase (in both the monitor and the system) to try and push it to one of the higher resolution 30" monitor or 3 monitor system, not to mention that I don't have the room. And at 1920x1200 I'm not going to be really pushing things with most games to require a pair of high end video cards.
I could build a computer (not counting monitor) for about $1000-1200 that could do everything I need it to so I don't see spending more then that for gains I'm not going to see.
I would say that having a good computer chair, 7.1 speaker system (which almost no one makes any more), and a good quality keyboard and mouse are definitely worth it, more so then the small increases from pushing the computer hardware a bit farther up the tech ladder.

So yeah, pretty close to what you already have picked out. Maybe a few minor changes but I don't even want to look at it right now least I be tempted. About the only changes I would make is a SSD and a set of RAIDed drives.

[Koury]

So it sounds like, on the whole, I did decent as far as picking things out? I guess I mostly want to know if there is any other piece that could provide a nice benefit for a reasonable price increase (as was the case with the processor I picked).

Also, why is this 8GB RAM (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5625845&Sku=C13-6174&SRCCODE=LINKSHARE&cm_mmc_o=-ddCjC1bELltzywCjC-d2CjCdwwp&AffiliateID=iFudSkud_Rc-gby..Fm5raQFny9sunlaFQ) $165 and this 8GB RAM (http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=iFudSkud/Rc&subid=&offerid=102327.1&type=10&tmpid=3883&RD_PARM1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tigerdirect.com%2Fapplic ations%2FSearchTools%2Fitem-details.asp%3FEdpNo%3D6611013%2526CatId%3D3433) less then half that?

Anyway, moving on to other things, what should I consider when I begin looking at monitors and a gaming keyboard/mouse? Any common problems or traps to avoid? Particular features I must have?

I really appreciate the info here, by the way. :smallsmile:

[tyckspoon]

So it sounds like, on the whole, I did decent as far as picking things out? I guess I mostly want to know if there is any other piece that could provide a nice benefit for a reasonable price increase (as was the case with the processor I picked).

Also, why is this 8GB RAM (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5625845&Sku=C13-6174&SRCCODE=LINKSHARE&cm_mmc_o=-ddCjC1bELltzywCjC-d2CjCdwwp&AffiliateID=iFudSkud_Rc-gby..Fm5raQFny9sunlaFQ) $165 and this 8GB RAM (http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=iFudSkud/Rc&subid=&offerid=102327.1&type=10&tmpid=3883&RD_PARM1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tigerdirect.com%2Fapplic ations%2FSearchTools%2Fitem-details.asp%3FEdpNo%3D6611013%2526CatId%3D3433) less then half that?


The only thing I'd check on the processor is the exact model you're looking at- the i5-2500k is the enthusiast version of that processor, which has some extra features unlocked for tweaking potential. If you wanted to play with those features, the equivalent i7 would be the 2600k; there should be ~$100 price difference between them. If you're finding an i7 for only ~40 more, you've either got a lead on a staggeringly good deal or it's a much lower grade i7.

For the RAM you've got linked- the more expensive kit comes with a fan-cooler accessory and appears to have its heatsinks specially designed to mount it. It's also much tighter tuned on the timings (this probably means nothing to you and you don't really need to worry about it if so, because it doesn't have a noticeable impact on everyday performance.) Basically it's Corsair's *really* high-end stuff, as opposed to just good stuff like the other kit.


Anyway, moving on to other things, what should I consider when I begin looking at monitors and a gaming keyboard/mouse?

For monitors: It depends very much on how much you care. If you just want it to display, you can buy pretty much anything in the right size and be happy. If you want it a little better than that, pick a good brand (Samsung and Asus I know are good and reliable, LG is usually nice, Ben Q is a decent value option, Viewsonic is generally good too.. that's just the ones I used to sell, there's a few other good brands you won't often find in retail stores) and you'll be ok. If you want it as good as it can go, tho.. find some really detailed technical reviews, do the research, and- this is important- *find a store that sells that model and get a hands on.* If it's set up in a monitor display series, get the salesguy/store associate to take it down and plug it in to a single source. Play with the display settings- most monitors are demo'd at excessively high brightness and bad color ratios, because they have to be to stand out in the over-exposed lighting conditions of most shops. If you're really concerned about your display quality, you really can't buy your monitor online. Which leads nicely to-

Mouse/Keyboard:
I hope to all the gods you have a good dedicated electronics shop around, because you don't want to buy these blind. What makes a 'good' gaming mouse and keyboard is determined so much by personal style and preference that the only good way to shop them is to get to hold them and go through them until you find the one where you just go 'oh, yeah, that's the way a mouse is supposed to feel.' That said- Logitech, Microsoft, and Razer would be your go-to companies here. If you can't/don't want to do the shopping and testing expedition, the more standardized designs from them should suit (so the ones without heavy ergonomic curving or funky off-centered buttons, etc.)


Speaking of which... I noticed you were originally going to look at an unlocked processor, but weren't going to buy any additional cooling, so I'm guessing you're not planning to try to overclock it (I'm not suggesting you do so, just making an observation). Not sure why you'd pay a premium for an unlocked processor if you aren't going to overclock it, though. If you are going to overclock it, I do suggest you go with cooling that's a little beyond the stock cooler, as otherwise you may run into heat issues pretty quickly.

It's like a ten dollar difference, and they are known to overclock pretty amazingly. Even if you just do it within the bounds of the stock heatsink/fan you're probably going to get .5 GHz or so out of it.. and multiplier overclocking is, to the best of my knowledge, a lot easier on a system than baseclock overclocking- it's basically how they make different grade chips at the factory already, so the motherboards and RAM are mostly already tested for it unless you start really trying to stretch the boundaries of your gear.

[factotum]

For the RAM you've got linked- the more expensive kit comes with a fan-cooler accessory and appears to have its heatsinks specially designed to mount it. It's also much tighter tuned on the timings (this probably means nothing to you and you don't really need to worry about it if so, because it doesn't have a noticeable impact on everyday performance.) Basically it's Corsair's *really* high-end stuff, as opposed to just good stuff like the other kit.


It's also a different arrangement of DIMMs--the cheaper one is two 4Gb ones, whereas the expensive one is four 2Gb ones.

[Triaxx]

For mice, I bought one of these, and I love it.

http://3btech.net/gigmdulegamo.html

Really is nice.

[GungHo]

Regarding multiple monitors, it is not so much to play a single game across both screens that interests me as much as its for things like Kageru having Civ running in windowed mode sized to fit one screen and then doing other things while the opponent takes their turn. Also, thats on the "future upgrade" list, as opposed to something I'm worrying about starting out with.
You can do that with one card without problems. As said by others, that's more of a CPU problem than a GPU problem. Just have something multi-cored and you'll be fine. But, you may start running into problems if you want to play a game, browse the web, listen to iTunes, and download a bunch of crap all at once.


As far as things like cooling needs, well, thats why I'm here asking questions of you guys. I know you will notice these things and bring them up. I, honestly, hadn't even thought about cooling, silly as that may sound. :smalleek:
You don't need to worry about it much if you're never going to overclock. If you're not going to overclock, then I'd be more concerned with making sure the case is breathing well and pay more for a roomy Cooler Master case like a HAF 922 (which looks goofy as hell but is otherwise a nice case) and/or a case few fans rather than a fancy CPU cooler. The stock heat sink and fan is fine for normal use. I only brought it up because you were looking at an unlocked CPU. If you go cheap and buy an OEM chip, you might want to make sure whether or not the manufacturer's cooler actually comes with the chip.


Out of curiosity, how much does you guys personal "dream gaming machine" cost, not including monitor(s)? Like, if you had plenty of extra money (but not necessarily unlimited, so you still weigh performance against price to some degree) and were looking into a gaming computer, what would you get?
You don't really need that much if you're staying out of a benchmarking pissing contest. Put money into things you're going to use and things you're going to appreciate... there's no need for 3-way SLI, 16GB of RAM, a 1500 Watt PSU, a SSD, 3 TB drives, a motherboard with a built in French tickler, etc, unless you're going to use that stuff or you have a hobby (photo processing, movie making, musician). It also becomes futile rather quickly... there's always gonna be newer, better stuff going to market, so some guy will always have something better than you.

The most expensive parts will invariably be the GPU and the CPU. Depending on how you want to kit it out, you can spend a little or a lot on HDDs (SSDs cost a lot of money, but if you're willing to just get a WD Caviar Green, you can get 2TB under $100 off of Amazon, and that's all most people need unless they're downloading a lot of movies). RAM's cheap. Cases are cheap unless you're a goof like me and you buy a $300 Corsair just because you like having the monolith from 2001 in your study. Motherboards aren't much, either, unless you get ones with a bunch of on board features that let you overclock.

In fact, a lot of money can be saved if you say "hey, I'm not going to overclock". Then, you're not paying premiums for CPUs, motherboards, sometimes RAM (and RAM cooling), watercooling tubes, Honeywell shop fans, cans of freon, a vacuum chamber created by CERN, and an Igloo ice chest, and you're not risking frying anything and losing your warranty.

[Zeful]

Out of curiosity, how much does you guys personal "dream gaming machine" cost, not including monitor(s)? Like, if you had plenty of extra money (but not necessarily unlimited, so you still weigh performance against price to some degree) and were looking into a gaming computer, what would you get?

$2200+, mostly due to the price of getting a custom power supply fitted to the case I want to use (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bazwyKf2FDM/Sj_MUYTHE6I/AAAAAAAABzo/6LpMQ9_07hI/s400/compaq_portable.jpg). It'd be pushing 3700 if I tried to include a monitor as part of it.

[Starwulf]

Dream Dream, or just Dream Practical? Dream Practical would probably run me 1500 bucks, not including a monitor. That would basically allow me to buy top of the line or near top of the line CPU, GPU and Mid-Top of the line RAM, MOBO & Power supply.

Dream Dream...well, that's a different story. If I had the money to spend with no worries that I might regret it later because I could have used it better(ie: If I won millions upon millions of dollars in a lottery), I'd probably spend 5k or more on a fully kitted out computer. 24 Gigs of Ram, Quad graphics card, MOBO and 6-Core processor that supported such(and naturally the very best of the best), 1500W power supply, Liquid Cooling AND Fan cooling, just to make sure, massive case with beautiful hand-done Anime drawn onto the side PLUS pretty lights to make it look even better. Dual BLU-RAY/DVD Players with R/RW functions at top speed, Dual 1TB HDDs in Raid 0, plus a 250 Gig SSD for my boot-up. All of that with it being professionally overclocked to peak performance while still allowing for optimal functioning(ie: minimal risk of frying a part). Big 30" plus Monitor with 2500x1200 or whatever Resolution, and a personally configured virus protection that was updated every hour on the hour, plus firewall that actually protected me ALL while still allowing me to play games and surf the internet freely.

Yep, that would likely run 5k or more I imagine, but man would it be sweet. I'd almost certainly never actually utilize a quarter of the power of such a machine, but I'd love knowing that If I wanted to, I could do just about anything with a machine like that and still have power left-over.

Edit: Annnddd, having said all that, I'd still probably manage to do something to cause a critical error to the entire system within 6 months and lose a substantial amount of power/speed in the rig. I have bad luck like that ^^

[Sharoth]

Wow... Lots of good advice here. It will be the end of next year before I can buy a new computer, but you all have given me some food for thought. Thanks.

[Koury]

Gaming mice kinda all seem the same. Super precise if you want it to be, not if you don't. Occasionally some sort of switch to move between profiles for different games and a few extra buttons. Is there anything that really sets one mouse apart from another, or do you mostly just find one that looks cool and feels right and go?

[factotum]

Speaking personally, it's about how good it feels--you'll be using the thing a lot! Same for keyboard. This is why I still use my truly ancient Logitech MX510 despite one of the feet falling off all the time--I've tried several newer mice and none of them felt as comfortable to use. Your own mileage will vary, of course!

[Triaxx]

The mouse I linked has two DPI settings. 800/1600, and an on the fly button up behind the wheel, so it's easy to swap. The feel in the hand is sufficiently comfortable to make the fingers lay just right. What more can you ask from mouse?