Questions about the Artificer

[Vemynal]

Hey guys, so I finally got a look at the Eberron Campaign Setting book and read up on the Artificer class. I've always thought it sounded like an amazingly interesting class and I've been looking forward to reading it.

So I read up on the class and while I did find it interesting and I certainly want to play it. I'm confused as to how in the blazes the Artificer is considered a tier 1 class.

I mean I'm looking at the class right now; they only get up to 6th level infusions. So that's 6th level spells if I understand this correctly. And arn't the game breaking spell abilities found among the tier 1 classes usually due to level 7, 8 and 9th level spells?

The ability to learn a spell 2 levels sooner, such as the fireball at level 3 example is pretty cool. I mean yes its weaker but its still an option

...wait so does that mean an Artificer can use an 8th level spell in his 6th level infusion spot? Which would only deny him the use of 9th level spells? If so suddenly that makes a lot more sense.

And what about the time requirement when making items? usually when making an item it says it takes multiple days, sometimes weeks to make an item right? Are artificers just out of the game when making items?

Then there is the casting times on most infusions, I'm a little confused as to how Artificers are useful in combat since the book made them sound like they simply arn't.

The metamagic spell trigger and metamagic spell completion ability sounds amazing, but like I said before. When in your games do you find time to make these things? I know a lot of my D&D group would probably be annoyed if we had to roleplay around town for a couple days just so I could make some stuff so I'd be useful.

I'm also a little confused as the the separation of spells on their infusion list and being able to replicate any spell. So for the infusion list they don't have to do that whole spell DC level thing to replicate the ability but for any other spell they do?
Does that effectively mean that they could replicate any spell in the game ever as long as they come across it? (again, clarification on what the highest level of spells they have access to would be appreciated).

I guess I'm just curious how to play this class and be effective. While being told why the artificer is a tier 1 class and considered up their with the god like classes of druid, wizard, cleric and archivist would be interesting I know I'll never probably play the class at that level of optimization lol.

So if anyone can just help explain how the class works, I'd appreciate it <3

[Veyr]

Infusions aren't the same as spells; there are lots of Artificer infusions not found on other spell lists. A number of them are quite good.

More importantly, Item Creation and Infusions don't have anything to do with each other. The Artificer counts his Caster Level two higher for meeting the prerequisites of crafting a magic item (you'll notice that all magic items have a CL listed in their crafting costs section), but that's it. He can make a Wand of CL 3 Fireball at 3rd level, but it doesn't affect his Infusions.

Now, as for the Artificer being Tier 1, he can craft any magic item in the game, he gets a bajillion free feats for doing just that, and the Craft Reserve and Retain Essence features reduce the XP costs of doing so. Metamagic Spell Trigger further greatly improves the power of his Wands. A well-played Artificer has access to any spell he wishes, with no daily limit. This is phenomenally powerful. His Infusions help, too: they augment magic items, giving them useful features and abilities, and several are very powerful in their own right (Spell-Storing Item, I'm looking at you).

However, the Artificer can also be very difficult to play. There are a lot of items to keep track of with an Artificer. You really have to dig through books to find the best ones. Also, almost everything you do takes quite a bit of time: you really need to have excellent planning to get full use of one.

That said, I'm playing an Artificer without spending terribly much time diving for all the best items, and it's going pretty well. The Infusions are good, but not overpowered, and the magic wands are useful. It's a really cool class.

[dascarletm]

...wait so does that mean an Artificer can use an 8th level spell in his 6th level infusion spot? Which would only deny him the use of 9th level spells? If so suddenly that makes a lot more sense.
from what I gather you don't cast spells from the slots you just use the infusions in the list given. The 2 levels higher deal lets you "cast" those spells to make magic items which require that spell to be cast. Thus it is easier to make items earlier.


And what about the time requirement when making items? usually when making an item it says it takes multiple days, sometimes weeks to make an item right? Are artificers just out of the game when making items?
you need to/can only spend 8 hours each day creating the item. The rest of the time you can do anything. There is a humunc. (dedicated wight) that lets you just start the item and it works while you are away. Items take 1 day per 1,000gp in base price



Then there is the casting times on most infusions, I'm a little confused as to how Artificers are useful in combat since the book made them sound like they simply arn't.
they usually have long durations so they are good at the start of an encounter and good for that one and possibly ones afterwards.



When in your games do you find time to make these things? I know a lot of my D&D group would probably be annoyed if we had to roleplay around town for a couple days just so I could make some stuff so I'd be useful.
There is plenty of stuff to do! also tell them if they want items at 1/2 price they need to wait a few days (doubt they'll complain then)

Also an Artificer is great because you get access to magic items at fractions of the price. I play a dwarf artificer and i'm avoiding really the wands. I have items that make me a better melee combatant that the barbarian would have been had I not made him the item set of the watching master.

Also decking your party out in amazing gear for their level is just unstoppable. The DM is new and thinks that the CR system in place is bad lol.

[Vemynal]

Wait, so I don't need to create an item to use infusions from my infusion list? I can just use them whenever as long as I have an infusion left to use? basically like a Dread Necro or a Beguiler knows his whole list but can cast spontaneously from that list?



More importantly, Item Creation and Infusions don't have anything to do with each other. The Artificer counts his Caster Level two higher for meeting the prerequisites of crafting a magic item (you'll notice that all magic items have a CL listed in their crafting costs section), but that's it. He can make a Wand of CL 3 Fireball at 3rd level, but it doesn't affect his Infusions.

I see, so a Wand of Fireball is listed as a certain Caster Level and the Artificer gets a +2 bonus to his ability to make these items. So he can get them like 2 levels ahead of other casters essentially.

So is an artificers caster level equal to his number of artificer levels he has?

I'm also pretty sure I remember reading that an Artificer can add spells to his list of infusions but has to make a DC check to add them. Can he just add spells from any list as long as its available to him?



A well-played Artificer has access to any spell he wishes, with no daily limit

How? is it because he can make as many wands of whatever spell he wants?
I'm still a little confused on how he imitates spells. Does he have to at least have seen the spell used before? or I can just go to the Magic Item compendium, find a super powerful item with a bunch of rare spells and just imitate each of them without ever having seen them before? If so...wow no wonder he's considered tier 1. I might house rule a separate spell list from infusions that they have to know for making items =x.



However, the Artificer can also be very difficult to play. There are a lot of items to keep track of with an Artificer. You really have to dig through books to find the best ones.

yeah, I;m not to super concerned about digging around for the *best* items. I have a friend with the magic item compendium. I hate going through it when making a character, always looking for the best gear to get for starting off =x.


Also, almost everything you do takes quite a bit of time: you really need to have excellent planning to get full use of one.
How much time would you say it takes to make enough wands, scrolls, couple pieces of armor, etc to really be effective to play?
I suppose I could always get the GM to fast forward through the time spent in town if the other players want to skip past me making all my crap

Also, can an Artificer qualify for the Lich template? I could see that being an interesting character lol. Especially since I feel the final 4 levels of artificer are kinda a waste =x

And whats a "Archerficer"?

[blazingshadow]

artificer handbook right here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5929.0) it tells you most of what you need to know

edit: just so you know you don't use infusions to make items you use use magic device skill to emulate the spells. the craft reserve is one of the best features of the artificer so artificer 20 is a very good option

[Mad Gene Vane]

Though not a main ability of an Artificer, the Artificer can pick magic locks same as a rogue. It's one of those minor things that can come in handy from time to time.

[blazingshadow]

i have read that an artificer can be a tier 0 if focused properly however i don't believe tier inflation is required when tier 1 is gamebreaking on it's own. all in all an artificer is not for new people. it requires some planning beforehand to make an effective one as opposed as a magic item dispencer with little value in combat

[NNescio]

That would be the Psionic Artificer, a variant that can truly craft anything.

[blazingshadow]

How? is it because he can make as many wands of whatever spell he wants?
I'm still a little confused on how he imitates spells. Does he have to at least have seen the spell used before? or I can just go to the Magic Item compendium, find a super powerful item with a bunch of rare spells and just imitate each of them without ever having seen them before? make a knowledge arcana check while in a library to get knowledge of whatever spell you need to make an item then have use magic device to emulate the spells and let your dedicated wright to the rest (you need to make the homunculus first of course)

[Vemynal]

Thanks for the Artificer handbook, I'll totally memorize that later. And I'd say personally that my play ability/effort I generally put into characters would put me at a tier 3, when doing a cleric, wizard or archivist. Just based off of how I've played in the past. I've memorized pun pun and most the game breakers, I just don't put the effort into doing everything that makes a wizard a tier 1 class (like contingency abuse lol)

So I can use my Homunculus to make me scrolls, wands, etc while out with the party? (after I've already succeeded on all skill checks).

What did you mean by "your dedicated write"?

Sounds to me like Artificers make awesome cohorts for Leadership lol.

But again, outta curiosity. Can an Artificer qualify for the Lich Template?

[Angry Bob]

I post this in every thread asking about the artificer:

I once broke a campaign with an artificer as early as level five. I was never banned, because I never really did anything productive in combat(Didn't play long enough to get metamagic spell trigger), mostly just summoned ineffectual monsters off scrolls and threw alchemical substances. A bunch of other guys using items I built were banned or at least gawked at as overpowered.

Depending on your group's general power level, seriously consider whether you'll blow up the campaign with it.

Item creation as written is already stupidly good, and artificers are really good at item creation. Never mind wand cheese.

EDIT: Ask your DM, but since infusions count for caster level, and you can advance them with spellcasting classes, I'd assume you can become a lich. But much classier to build the nastiest construct you can and put your brain in that.

[blazingshadow]

What did you mean by "your dedicated write"?dedicated wright is a homunculus from eberron campaign setting that the artificer can make eventually. he makes all the crafting after you make the checks.

as for infusions: giving the bane ability to your melee friend's weapons is a good way to use them before you go into battle

[MeeposFire]

dedicated wright is a homunculus from eberron campaign setting that the artificer can make eventually. he makes all the crafting after you make the checks.

as for infusions: giving the bane ability to your melee friend's weapons is a good way to use them before you go into battle

Stick it with a lab in your portable hole (that you crafted yourself for lols) and it travels with creating stuff on the go (except bags of holding don't do that).

[Vemynal]

ok! so I've completely memorized both artificer handbooks as well as grabbed access to magic of eberron and races of eberron. I'm totally thinking Warforged artificer.

damn, guess no lich lol. Though I wonder if I could rule of cool it from the dm lol. then again I'll be pretty op as is and thats just with my level of optimization. I still can't quite wrap my head around the infinite wish chaining haha.

Anyways, I'm thinking hordificier with a buffing secondary. Obviously gonna make items, portable hole with dedicated wright and all that.

I know what feats to grab, skills to take, racial substitution levels I want, etc.

What I'm curious about is...expanding upon the concept of my hordificier abilities.

Namely, the spell animate undead and create undead/greater undead. All those lovely zombies =D (I'm a big minionmancer fan of the dread necro class)

so firstly; do my crafted golems count towards my HD of controlled creatures? I couldn't find anything on that. I'm also asking about my homunculi.

thirdly, the spell storing infusion. Is there anything that stops me from from infusing a bunch of 1g onyx stones with "animate dead" etc and just placing them upon the person of dead creatures/people add having the ability activate? (other then dm saying no)

finally, after giving it some thought, I'm kinda falling in love with designing this character in a Dr. Frankenstein/ Frankenstein's monster style. Is there any ways for me to combine construct like features to anything I use animate dead on?

Is there a way to add undead properties to my crafted golems and homunculi? I read about undead grafts but they had a racial requirement.



I'm just falling in love with the idea of a Warforged that has begun to obsess over the concept of "life" and building new life. Creating monsters like Dr. Frankenstein did. But this guy is doing it, performing these experiments, because he wants to transcend his wood & steel body and become a being of flesh (so he'd be seeking ways to graft living or undead flesh to himself)

Are there any other ways you guys can think of for me to add other minions to this guy as well?

also; with Spell storing infusion...if I'm reading this correctly I can infuse a dead body (an object) with raise dead and as logn as I have the material components, etc, it'll work?

and while I don't think I'd do it...just for extra melty cheese would spellstich work on anything I created that had an undead graft?

[NecroRick]

Note that there are warforged substitution levels for artificer.

You can swap out homunculus at level 4 for the ability to make really cheap weapons and armour for yourself. To get your horde back, take craft construct, which lets you make _golems_ as well as homunculi. The drawback is its not available until ~level 10?

Also, according to errata the level 6 and 7 abilities should swap. I think this means that you can now make wands _before_ you can boost them, which makes sense.

Another errata is that you can't take the artisan feats more than once, so no stacking them to get a cost of -25%xp when crafting.

If you want lots of undead, you can use Metamagic Spell Trigger (and various similar abilities/feats) to slap Fell Drain on your spell items (e.g. wand of wight creation, err... I mean magic missiles). There's a level 3 infusion that is fast to cast that does this, and lasts for ages (1 round/level). I've had a look at it, you could put Divine Metamagic abuse to shame with this infusion. Yikes.

The biggest drawback of the hordificer is that if the homunculi die you get 2d10 feedback damage. So a well placed fireball doesn't have to be anywhere near you to nuke you into oblivion. There's also a feat to make your homunculi gruntier (give them more hit dice) at the cost of more xp (I think).

Consider making an item familiar. :D More xp = more crafting.

At low levels note that you can burn an action point to do a fast infusion. Bane is good (too good)... +2 enhancement (so +2 to hit _and_ damage) as well as an additional +2d6 damage. For a level 1 enhancement. Sweet.

At level 1 you can scribe 2nd elvel scrolls. Try to pick ones that don't rely on caster level, such as Heat Metal and Knock.

Someone recommended poisons to a similar question of mine.

Apparently the 'usual thing' is to take a crossbow. There is the heavy repeating crossbow, but it's an exotic weapon.

For defense craft yourself a hat of +1 dodge bonus, then a moustache of +1 dodge bonus, then a dongle of +1 dodge bonus, then a doodad of +1 dodge bonus (repeat). When you run out of body slots/DM patience go round them and add a deflection bonus to one, a natural armour bonus to another, a luck bonus to the third, a profane bonus to the fourth, a circumstance bonus to the fifth, an insight bonus to the sixth... :D

More importantly, do the same thing for UMD. At low levels your odds of actually using your class features are not good, because the DCs all _start_ at 20 and go up from there. It doesn't really matter if you have a scroll of break game if you only have a 5% chance of using it successfully.

A +1 competence bonus to [some specific skill] costs I think 100gp. So for you, 50gp and 2 from your crafting pool. You're a warforged, so do your crafting when the muggles are sleeping. If you took an artisan feat to reduce cost, it would only cost 37.5gp. You can make 10 of these for 375gp, your entire level 1 crafting pool, and your DMs sanity. A price you should be willing to pay :D You may have to burn action points for the first couple of them to get the ball going. Or hey, if you have money, just burn the money.

[Vemynal]

thanks necrorick, the errata on the wand ability switch, the Fell drain as well as the idea with the mustache were all useful.

I feel like maybe what I was specifically asking though might have gotten lost above in my ramblings about my character. So here are the 9 questions I'm asking:

1) Whether Lich can be accessed with Artificer? (specifically would it be more overpowered then say, a wizard using it. would a dm allow it). Keep in mind I'm a warforged character (who is aiming to take on the qualities of flesh/undead flesh)

2) do my crafted golems count towards my HD of controlled creatures? I couldn't find anything on that. I'm also asking about my homunculi.

3) the spell storing infusion. Is there anything that stops me from from infusing a bunch of 1g onyx stones with "animate dead" etc and just placing them upon the person of dead creatures/people add having the ability activate? (other then dm saying no)

4) Is there any ways for me to combine construct like features to anything I use animate dead on?

5) Is there a way to add undead properties to my crafted golems and homunculi? I read about undead grafts but they had a racial requirement to take the feat to use them

6) Are there any other types of creatures I could control to use as minions as well? maybe emulating the dominate person/creature spell series or some other such spells.

7) with Spell storing infusion...if I'm reading this correctly I can infuse a dead body (an object) with raise dead and as long as I have the material components, etc, it'll work?

8) if I give my construct an undead graft can I spell stitch them by RAW?
What if I animated dead/created undead/greater undead and added the construct template to them? could I still spell stitch them by RAW?

9) I actually added this one from Necro. Why would I *ever* make an item familiar? it replaces my retain essence ability. Which seems to me worth its weight in gold.

[Baka Nikujaga]

http://i52.tinypic.com/qn1lqa.jpg
I'll try my best!
1) Becoming a Lich requires Craft Wondrous Item, the ability to cast spells, and a Caster Level of eleventh or higher...but I haven't been under the impression that only a humanoid could become a Lich.

2) No, golems and homunculi are not undead and individual homunculi can have a maximum HD equal to your effective Artificer Level.

3) I believe you could but you would still be required to provide the material components necessary to animate the creature.

4) Possibly through Warforged Grafts, however the creature type does not change.

5) Grafts do not change the type.

6) Scribing higher level scrolls of spells such as Mindrape, Necrotic Domination, or Programmed Amnesia. If you have the time to completely destroy someone's saving throws you could also use a Pearl of Mindseed. Alternatively there are outsiders as well.

7) I believe so. If not, just use a nearby item.

8) The construct's type would not change so the construct would be ineligible for the template.

9) You're thinking of Weapon Familiar, an Item Familiar (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Item_Familiar_(Feat)) is a completely different kind of thing. Be sure to take Tools of War since you'll be taking the Create Construct feat, though.

[Divide by Zero]

For defense craft yourself a hat of +1 dodge bonus, then a moustache of +1 dodge bonus, then a dongle of +1 dodge bonus, then a doodad of +1 dodge bonus (repeat).

Ahem. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#dodgeBonus)

Dodge bonuses are never granted by spells or magic items.
Except haste, for some inexplicable reason.

[Aharon]

But there's an infusion that can give you dodge bonuses to anything but AC :smalltongue:

[Big Fau]

That would be the Psionic Artificer, a variant that can truly craft anything.

And the reason for that is because the Magic Item Compendium over-rided the PsiArtificer's restrictions, but it only works one-way (the normal Artificer can't craft Psionic items)

[Veyr]

1) Whether Lich can be accessed with Artificer? (specifically would it be more overpowered then say, a wizard using it. would a dm allow it). Keep in mind I'm a warforged character (who is aiming to take on the qualities of flesh/undead flesh)
Lich is underpowered; immortality is more of a fluff thing. The phylactery business does make you hard to kill, but Tier-1 characters are already hard to kill.

But by RAW, a Warforged could not become a Lich. An Artificer in general could, however, and could even craft the Phylactery two levels early.


2) do my crafted golems count towards my HD of controlled creatures? I couldn't find anything on that. I'm also asking about my homunculi.
No. Only things you raise with Animate Dead do. If you have Rebuke Undead from somewhere, that's also separate.


3) the spell storing infusion. Is there anything that stops me from from infusing a bunch of 1g onyx stones with "animate dead" etc and just placing them upon the person of dead creatures/people add having the ability activate? (other then dm saying no)
Seems perfectly appropriate, but be aware of the duration on Spell-Storing Item.


4) Is there any ways for me to combine construct like features to anything I use animate dead on?

5) Is there a way to add undead properties to my crafted golems and homunculi? I read about undead grafts but they had a racial requirement to take the feat to use them
If you become a Lich, you meet that racial requirement, and the Fleshwarper class can also get you out of that requirement (unfortunately, pretty sure it requires Humanoid itself).

But Constructs and Undead already share quite a few things to begin with (most notably the Con —); what features are you looking for?


6) Are there any other types of creatures I could control to use as minions as well? maybe emulating the dominate person/creature spell series or some other such spells.
You could easily make a Staff with several such spells. A dip of Cleric could get you the ability to Rebuke certain types of creatures, if you wanted, though your turning level for it would be abysmal.


7) with Spell storing infusion...if I'm reading this correctly I can infuse a dead body (an object) with raise dead and as long as I have the material components, etc, it'll work?
Sure, but I don't think it activates automatically.


8) if I give my construct an undead graft can I spell stitch them by RAW?
No. Type doesn't change.


What if I animated dead/created undead/greater undead and added the construct template to them? could I still spell stitch them by RAW?
Construct template? If the Template changes their type to Construct, then no. If they'd already been Spellstitched, though, they may not lose that; I'd have to double-check the wording on Spellstitched. Where is that?


9) I actually added this one from Necro. Why would I *ever* make an item familiar? it replaces my retain essence ability. Which seems to me worth its weight in gold.
Weapon Familiar. I did so because I was trying to tone down the Artificer's power, personally. Also, if you don't expect your campaign to go much past 6ish (say, an E6 game), the Tools of War ACF can be better.

[Vemynal]

1) What are warforged grafts? I know about the half-golem templates. is it the same thing? what book are they in?

2) What book are undead grafts in? I thought the "deathless" grafts in magic of eberron were the undead grafts but I was wrong.

3) I'm still reeling from the fact that as long as I make a UMD check of 29 I can make a 9th level spell scroll. I've gone through all this stuff a couple times, is there some requirement I'm not noticing here that makes this less overpowered? I know my scrolls can only be used by UMD so a wizard can't copy for his spell book



Lich is underpowered; immortality is more of a fluff thing. The phylactery business does make you hard to kill, but Tier-1 characters are already hard to kill.

"The lich template class has two special requirements. First, the base character must have the Craft Wondrous Item feat so that she can make a phylactery to hold her life force. The would-be lich must craft her phylactery over time, as described below. Second, she must be able to cast spells at a caster level of 11th or higher. It is this power, coupled with the knowledge of the process required, that allows the transformation to occur."
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a

Technically the Lich template class makes no distinction about me being human to take the class. Hardly RAI but still RAW (if I can get gm permission).
And I agree, its totally a fluff thing. you asked before:



But Constructs and Undead already share quite a few things to begin with (most notably the Con —); what features are you looking for?

Truth is I'm doing this solely for fluff reasons. I would actually be entirely fine just grafting undead flesh to my constructs and leaving them as just constructs (if anything this makes them more powerful as I don't have to worry about anti-undead abilities)

I just really like the idea of the Dr. Frankenstein / Frankenstein's Monster as my approach to this character.

And I'm ok not spell stitching my constructs, it would have been overly cheesy with everything else added. Though good to know that if I gave an animated dead/created undead/greater undead warforged grafts they would technically still be undead type and could receive it ;)

Spell stitched is page 161 of the Complete Arcane
(I love me some undead lol)
Now it says flat out: "Spellstitched creatures can only be crafted by a wizard or sorcerer with the craft wondrous items feat and of sufficient level to cast the spells to be imbued within the undead's body.
10 days minimum to do (relates to wis score), 1000gp cost and 500xp x the undead creatures wis score as a cost
Undead with arcane spell casting abilities can spell stitch themselves"

Now it says right out, "only a wizard or sorcerer". Was this written after or before the eberron campaign books were released? Because if complete arcane was released before the eberron ones then technically, by this, if I could become a Lich I could spell stitch myself for full effect if I simply gave myself a +wis item that gave me a wisdom of 19 or more.
Then again this isn't necessarily that advantageous for myself when I can imitate any spell for free anyways. Good for minions though =).



Weapon Familiar. I did so because I was trying to tone down the Artificer's power, personally. Also, if you don't expect your campaign to go much past 6ish (say, an E6 game), the Tools of War ACF can be better.

Tools of War replaces the craft homunculus feat, which I'm totally taking the craft construct feat anyways.

The ability that replaces Retain essence is "Craft Weapon Familiar". It really isn't that great from what I'm reading about it. So I'd take the first and 4th substitution levels (especially the 1st since you don't actually lose anything...you just gain more lol)

[Veyr]

1) What are warforged grafts? I know about the half-golem templates. is it the same thing? what book are they in?
Faiths of Eberron


2) What book are undead grafts in? I thought the "deathless" grafts in magic of eberron were the undead grafts but I was wrong.
They're in several books; see my Fleshwarping list for more info.


3) I'm still reeling from the fact that as long as I make a UMD check of 29 I can make a 9th level spell scroll. I've gone through all this stuff a couple times, is there some requirement I'm not noticing here that makes this less overpowered? I know my scrolls can only be used by UMD so a wizard can't copy for his spell book
Nope, you can do that. It's not something you can afford to do often, though.


Technically the Lich template class makes no distinction about me being human to take the class.
Incorrect:

"Lich" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature), provided it can create the required phylactery.(emphasis mine)

Unfortunately, not familiar enough with the other material to give a good answer, and don't have enough time right now to become familiar.

[Baka Nikujaga]

For purposes of meeting item prerequisites, an artificer’s effective caster level equals his artificer level +2.
http://i54.tinypic.com/200whs1.jpg
Because of this I've always been under the impression that an Artificer would still need to be within two levels of the item he or she wanted to create.

[Vemynal]

In the link I provided to take the Lich template class I did a ctrl F search for the word humanoid. This is the only place it appeared in the description when pertaining to the Lich;

"If she dies or is destroyed, she reappears 1d10 days after her old body's death. She gains her new physical form by grafting her undead spirit to a humanoid corpse, mindless undead, or some weak-minded creature within a few miles of her phylactery."

I'm not arguing that its RAI, in fact its completely abusing the wording. But there is nothing mentioned that restricts me from taking levels in the Lich Template Class as the only 2 special requirements listed are "caster level 11" and know the "craft wondrous item feat"

But on second thought, like with the spell stitching I don't think I'd want the character to take the Lich template anyways.


Thanks for the info on Faiths of Eberron and I'll look up the flesh warping thing, but i don't see any list posted =x

[Veyr]

In the link I provided to take the Lich template class I did a ctrl F search for the word humanoid.
I don't know anything about the template class; I'd assume that they have the same requirements as the Template but I don't really know. The Lich template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm), however, most certainly does require that you be Humanoid.

[Reluctance]

Technically the artificer never casts spells, so they don't meet the requirements for either the normal lich nor the the savage progression. I wouldn't be too horribly against it personally - you lose out on infusion/effective caster levels, as well as keeping your craft reserve from refreshing and, depending on how many UMD-boosting items you can get away with, lowers your skill caps - but RAW doesn't side with you.

Flesh golems are the quintessential Frankenstein's monster, and they're 100% constructs. Construct traits and undead traits overlap a lot, so you're free to say that they have undead traits for flavor reasons. You're also more than free to say that your constructs are made from recycled organic materials instead of clay and metal, so long as it doesn't clash too strongly with preexisting fluff (e.g: stone golems) and you're willing to put up with the social handicaps.

[stainboy]

Becoming a lich just requires you to create a phylactery.


"Lich" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature), provided it can create the required phylactery.

It's creating a phylactery that requires spellcasting ability and CL 11. Since the spellcasting requirement is tied to creating an item, you can cheese it with UMD like usual (Emulate a Class Feature, DC 20).

[Baka Nikujaga]

http://i54.tinypic.com/2nsz4av.jpg
From what I can recall an Artificer is considered to have an effective caster level equal to his or her Artificer level (plus or minus any outside modifiers). The only restrictions are that an Artificer cannot qualify for anything that specifically mentions Arcane or Divine components in its requirements or name specific spells. But that might only apply to prestige classes, I'm can't remember...

[Vemynal]

Wow, I'm an idiot. I foudn the graft flesh feat in Libre mortis. Can't believe I didn't think to look in the big book of the dead.

the Bodak's eye and those 3 arms that cause temporary level loss, paralysis or strength loss look interesting. Though for those last 3 they all require fort saves and i doubt they are gonna get a touch attack off on someone who has a poor fort save lol

[NecroRick]

thanks necrorick, the errata on the wand ability switch, the Fell drain as well as the idea with the mustache were all useful.


As pointed out by DBZ you wouldn't normally be able to put dodge bonuses on items. I'd just gotten a bit excited when I found a bonus type that could stack with itself. Apologies.



1) Whether Lich can be accessed with Artificer?


Yes. If the DM says "ha! only wizzzards can make a pylactery sprocket boy!" just say "ha! emulate other class/race using UMD beyotch!"



(specifically would it be more overpowered then say, a wizard using it.


No. If the rules get tricky you could view it as similar to a prestige class. (E.g. simply apply the spellcasting portions of the template (if any) to the infusions)



would a dm allow it).


Probably not in your case...



Keep in mind I'm a warforged character (who is aiming to take on the qualities of flesh/undead flesh)


In that case, no.

There is a discussion in the fluff on Warforged that people argue about their having souls or not, and part of the evidence 'against' is that they cannot be raised as undead...

Note: _raised_

Okay, now what you want to do, is take on a semblance of life, then jujitsu that into undeath. This is somewhat different than the question of what happens if a wight kills you.

There is either a prestige class (Reforged) or some kind of feat that will make you more human...

I had thought it required this feat:

http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-3004-unarmored-body.html

But that reference normally tells you if a feat is required for other feats. (Reforged gives it to you at level 3 for free, but you lose all your warforged feats and warforged components)

Anyway, having become more alive, you could then better make your case about becoming undead.

Alternately, you might be able to use UMD to replace the racial restriction on becoming undead... (I kind of think this works _better_ with Lich than other undead types, because it involves the actual construction of a magic item, which is where UMD comes into it. I don't think you could use UMD to justify turning into a vampire for instance!)



2) do my crafted golems count towards my HD of controlled creatures? I couldn't find anything on that. I'm also asking about my homunculi.


No.

Additionally, there is no limit (that I can see) to the number of constructs you can have running around. Except, of course, the XP costs which are steep.



3) the spell storing infusion. Is there anything that stops me from from infusing a bunch of 1g onyx stones with "animate dead" etc and just placing them upon the person of dead creatures/people add having the ability activate? (other then dm saying no)


Why 1gp stones? They will get burned up/used up by the animate dead.
You should use 25gp stones as a minimum (unless you did something to bring down spell component costs?).

The other thing that will derail this is to look at the duration.

Oh wait, the thing that will _really_ derail this is to note that the components are used _when the spell is imbued_. So you can never infuse the spell onto the components it requires. You _could_ infuse onto a required focus however, since they aren't used up by the casting (example: cleric's holy symbol), but each focus could only have one spell infused on it at a time (someone said something about Mr T's chains in another thread recently... :D)

6th level Artificer is the minimum you could infuse Animate Dead (Artificer level must be 2x the spell's level). At the time you infuse it, you will also burn 25xN onyx (where N is the number of hit dice you want to animate). The caster level is 6, so the maximum N is 12. You need to make a DC 29 UMD check, if your total is 19 or less something _bad_ happens (cue evil DM laughter about something _bad_ happening with animate dead... Muahahahahha!)

At 6th level, you can have at most 9 ranks in UMD. So therefore you're looking at a base of 11 or higher to avoid catastrophe. Assume you have a +4 stat modifier. Oh wait, you're Warforged, with a penalty to cha... okay, assume a +2 stat modifier. Now you need 9 or higher to avoid indignity.

That's where various feats come in, but honestly they cease to be relevant pretty quickly. What I would do is have a +UMD skill item (a pointy hat with wizzard written on it for instance.... :D ), and each time I went up a level I'd increase the bonus by 1 point and pay the difference.

Other options are getting a snazzy cloak (check out Magneto's costume in X-Men 1 and 2 for instance - tres chic)

And a circlet of persuasion (at 4500gp it's a lot more pricey than an item of +3 to UMD, but it helps _all_ charisma based skills. Be careful that certain things won't stack. An item of +3 competence bonus to UMD won't stack with the circlet (because both are competence bonuses). So if you make an item that gives you an enhancement bonus instead, how will that stack with the cloak of charisma, which also grants an enhancement bonus? Good question... I'm... er... 'glad'... you asked...

My take on that is that the enhancement bonus to the skill and the enhancement bonus to the attribute that counts towards the skill _do_ stack, because they are enhancing different things. E.g. I can enhance my sword and enhance my strength, and then both will count for bashing orcs.

:D



4) Is there any ways for me to combine construct like features to anything I use animate dead on?


Hmmm... tricky. I'd say probably not per se.

The thing with construct and undead are that they are both reasons for animation. Prime movers if you like. Similar to the state of being alive, they are the thing that makes you get up and move around. They are, if you like, the fuel of the vehicle.

So if you cast animate object on a corpse, the result would be a construct, not a zombie.

Speaking of animating objects... were you aware that the most powerful Druid in Eberron is actually a tree that was awakened about 3 or 4 thousand years before the normal campaign start time?



5) Is there a way to add undead properties to my crafted golems and homunculi? I read about undead grafts but they had a racial requirement to take the feat to use them


pass



6) Are there any other types of creatures I could control to use as minions as well? maybe emulating the dominate person/creature spell series or some other such spells.


Step 1: build a bonfire
Step 2: cast animate object or awaken or something like that on the furniture
Step 3: threaten to toss the furniture on the bonfire unless it serves you
Step 4: ...
Step 5: profit!



7) with Spell storing infusion...if I'm reading this correctly I can infuse a dead body (an object) with raise dead and as long as I have the material components, etc, it'll work?


With infusions _what_ you infuse doesn't really matter. You could have a tricycle of raise dead, or a salami of raise dead, the obvious exceptions being that you just can't cast them directly onto spell components and team mates (if you jump through the right hoops you may be able to cast them directly onto yourself).

If you infused animate dead into a sword, it wouldn't activate when the sword killed someone (for instance).



8) if I give my construct an undead graft can I spell stitch them by RAW?
What if I animated dead/created undead/greater undead and added the construct template to them? could I still spell stitch them by RAW?


My suggestion: play an awesome character (i.e. one the DM likes a lot) and then try it at high levels... see if the DM will 'rule of cool' it in for you.



9) I actually added this one from Necro. Why would I *ever* make an item familiar? it replaces my retain essence ability. Which seems to me worth its weight in gold.

Item Familiar is teh awesome brokenness :D

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm

Note that this is different from the Warforged Racial Substitution thingy, so you don't have to give anything up except a feat.

Now, with respect to essence drain... why would you need it?
I see it as useful in a couple of different scenarios:
(1) the DM is Scrooge McDuck and refuses to let you sell magic items
(2) the DM is Monty Hall and you have more gold than you can spend
(3) you run into _lots_ of magical traps...

You can suck the life-force out of a magical trap using retain essence... :D

The weapon familiar is a different beast. Check out the page just after the Warforged Artificer Substitution levels in Races of Eberron.

A one-handed slashing weapon familiar will give you:
+3 UMD
+3 hit points
Alertness
Can deliver infusion touch attacks through the weapon (so can combine it with a weapon attack if you wish)

It's up to you whether you think that's worth it. The +3 UMD may or may not be worthwhile, as it costs you only 450gp + 18 crafting pool points to get the same effect.

[MeeposFire]

Retain essence is nice but not godly. The reason is that it helps you create an XP pool to use when crafting. The funny thing is if you game the crafting rules you can lower your level but when you fight in a battle you get bonus XP since you are lower level and if you do it right you can actually come out ahead in the end in terms of XP.

Yes you can lose XP to get ahead in XP while getting new items.

[Veyr]

Okay, now what you want to do, is take on a semblance of life, then jujitsu that into undeath. This is somewhat different than the question of what happens if a wight kills you.

There is either a prestige class (Reforged) or some kind of feat that will make you more human...

I had thought it required this feat:

http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-3004-unarmored-body.html

But that reference normally tells you if a feat is required for other feats. (Reforged gives it to you at level 3 for free, but you lose all your warforged feats and warforged components)

Anyway, having become more alive, you could then better make your case about becoming undead.

Alternately, you might be able to use UMD to replace the racial restriction on becoming undead... (I kind of think this works _better_ with Lich than other undead types, because it involves the actual construction of a magic item, which is where UMD comes into it. I don't think you could use UMD to justify turning into a vampire for instance!)
Unfortunately, creating the phylactery doesn't require you to be humanoid, the ritual does, so I don't think you can UMD it. The phylactery is more like a focus or material component than the thing that does it.

However, Races of Eberron has Greater Humanoid Essence as a 6th level Artificer Infusion, which, among other things, changes a Construct's type to Humanoid for rounds per level. Now you just need ways of improving that duration so it lasts long enough to complete the lich process (this is not a matter of RAW, though, and if it's more than two days you'll have a very hard time pulling it off). You'd arguably lose pretty much all of your Warforged racial features, though.

[Vemynal]

New Query!

lets say the character is human and is seeking to make himself into a construct. How could he go about it?

I know he could take on the half golem template and fail the save but I'm pretty sure there are a number of bad things that would accompany that.

So what ways could the character literally gain the construct type? Not just the little warforged grafts

[Baka Nikujaga]

http://i54.tinypic.com/2nsz4av.jpg
If you don't mind losing two caster levels, there's the Renegade Mastermaker prestige class in Magic of Eberron (though it's Living-Construct).

EDIT:
There's also the Green Star Adept, but I would recommend that even less.

[Veyr]

Renegade Mastermaker is a hell of a lot better than Green Star Adept, but it's 10 levels at 8/10 spellcasting in order to gain the racial benefits of being a Warforged. Which you could have just chosen as your race to begin with.

OK, here's my best suggestion for this, based fairly strict RAW: First, know Extend Spell, Reach Spell, and Persistent Spell. These are all decent-to-great feats for an Artificer, so that's not a huge concern. Then, scribe a Scroll of Reach Greater Humanoid Essence. This is an 8th level spell, so it costs 3,000 gp base price.

At this point, prepare the Ritual of Crucimigration from Libris Mortis. You need 3,000 gp and a written plea, as well as a pole, some cursed nails, some zombie servitors, and someone to lead the ritual. They also need to have very good senses of time. You'll become a Necropolitan, which is Undead but not a Lich.

Then, use Metamagic Spell Completion while casting the Reach Greater Humanoid Essence to add the effects of Persistent Spell, which changes your type to Humanoid. Reach Spell gives it a fixed range of 30 ft., which allows it to qualify for Persistent Spell, which makes it last 24 hours. Using Metamagic Spell Completion here requires a UMD check of 62 — you therefore need to be 13th level to take-10 and a +52 on your UMD check. At 13th, maxed ranks gives you +16, Cha should be giving you a minimum of +5, Wieldskill gets you +10, all of which get you exactly half way there. A Competence item gets you at least +5, and you can use Item Alteration on a few more Competence items to get a few more +5's (or more). An Item Familiar, if all else fails, will get you the bonus you need.

You must then immediately begin the Ritual of Crucimigration: the zombies should have Readied Actions to do so as soon as the scroll's spell affected you.

Over the course of 24 hours, you die, losing a level (as if a Negative Level became permanent) and another 1,000 XP on top of that. On your dying breath, the ritual leader impales you and links you to the Negative Energy Plane. You rise again as a Necropolitan, and your type changes to Undead — just as Greater Humanoid Essence wears off. After this, you should be an Undead with the (Living Construct) template. What the hell that means, I haven't a clue.


Note: there are a number of issues in this process.
Scribing a metamagic'd spell into a scroll is legal by RAW, I'm reasonably certain, but I can't give you a citation for that. Be sure you can find one before attempting this.
Reach Spell allowing a spell to qualify for Persistent Spell is something that a lot of people cry foul about. As far as I can tell, there is no rule preventing this, but people don't like it.
The timing here is problematic. The spell lasts 24 hours, and so does the ritual. It is critical that the spell still be in effect at the end of the ritual. You may need to scribe a Extended Reach Greater Humanoid Essence instead; as a 9th level spell, this is still legal, but it now costs 3,825 gp, and the UMD check for Metamagic Spell Completion goes up to 65.
In this case, it gets hard to argue that you have Reach (to qualify for Persistent), then Persistent (to get 24 hours), then Extend going on (to get 48 hours), since you need the Metamagic Spell Completion to go in between the two on the scroll. However, the rule is that if order matters, it always favors the player unless otherwise specified, and the Metamagic Spell Completion ability doesn't specify. This may be very difficult to convince a DM to allow, however.
Once Greater Humanoid Essence ends, the rules get fuzzy. You no longer qualify for Necropolitan after. But Necropolitan changes your type anyway — no Necropolitan still qualifies for the template. And Greater Humanoid Essence does not state that you regain your Construct type after it ends; that's just assumed by the spell wearing off. But since your type had changed in the meantime, you should keep that change.
But other than those things, it should work, strict RAW and everything.

Personally, as a DM, I would never make you go to such absurd lengths for this. But if your DM is leery of the concept to begin with... I'm not sure this monstrosity will be allowed, either.

[NecroRick]

Veyr's post should come with a "do not try this at home" warning! :D

[Veyr]

To be honest, though, it is extremely flavorful. Just look at all that work he put into this! The benefits do not justify that amount of effort and planning, plus the XP loss is going to be quite substantial.

Also, side-note: before you do all of this, you might consider asking what the duration of the Lich-becoming ritual is. If it's 24 hours or less, you can swap it in here instead of the Ritual of Crucimigration; I only went with that because it has a RAW time, while the Lich-becoming ritual doesn't have any hard-and-fast rules. If it's less than 24 hours, you can save a lot of trouble. If it's less than a minute or two, you can save a ton of trouble (by avoiding Persistent Spell and therefore Reach Spell). Of course, the LA +4 is really, really not worth it.

[MeeposFire]

The interesting thing about renegade mastermaker is its slam attack. It allows iteratives which makes it rather unique though it is not necessarily powerful.

[Vemynal]

Ok Veyr, I love you. That's *amazing* that you went through all of that just to help me turn a Warforged into an Undead (Living Construct)

Seriously I can't believe you went through all that work just for that. I'm utterly amazed.



But back onto my current question;

How does a human become a construct? I'm looking for both:
1) how does a human become a Living Construct? (like a warforged but does not necessarily have to be a warforged)
2) how does a human become a normal Construct? (like the type that get the Con --, etc. Also what would be some negative effects of this. Like I wouldn't want to be mindless)

So far I have:
Living Construct
Renegade Master Maker

Normal Construct
Half golem template (fail the save) <-- I don't like this cuz I'm pretty sure I'd become mindless

[Big Fau]

Normal Construct
Half golem template (fail the save) <-- I don't like this cuz I'm pretty sure I'd become mindless

Green Star Adept is the only way I'm aware of.


And it SUCKS.

[MeeposFire]

Green Star Adept is the only way I'm aware of.


And it SUCKS.

Sucks slightly less if you read its caster level bonus stacks with its additional spells per level feature. Still fairly bad though.

[Caylus]

Half-golem lost it's listed LA in the errata of MM II I'm afraid, making it a non-playable option.

Oh, and you might want to check Magic of Ebberon, since there are eternal scrolls described in there called schema's which are quite... nice, to say the least, with metamagic spell completion (Persistant Divine Power? Don't mind if I do!).

For the question how humans become living constructs:

Be a psionic artificer (also in MoE) --> true mindswitch a warforged.

How humans become constructs:

Awaken construct, Polymorph any object a construct into something with an intelligence score, true mindswitch (since it isn't immune to mind affecting effects anymore), dispel polymorph, and you're now an intelligent construct!

[VarianArdell]

And the reason for that is because the Magic Item Compendium over-rided the PsiArtificer's restrictions, but it only works one-way (the normal Artificer can't craft Psionic items)

can I get a quote on this? I've been looking for it for a while, but I can't find it...

[Big Fau]

can I get a quote on this? I've been looking for it for a while, but I can't find it...

Page 232:


Many of the items in this book can also be created by a character with the appropriate psionic item creation feat.

For the purpose of meeting item prerequisites, a character who has the Craft Psionic Arms and Armor feat is treated as having Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Likewise, a character who has Craft Universal Item meets the feat prerequisite for items that require Craft Wondrous Item.

If an item includes a spell prerequisite, but the effect of the item does not directly implement that spell, then a psionic power of similar flavor can be substituted. If the item replicates a spell effect, then only the psionic version of that spell or a psionic power that replicates the same effect can be used to satisfy the prerequisite. For example, a character can create a helm of teleportation using psionic teleport as a power prerequisite, or energy burst as a power to create a necklace of fireballs.

The prerequisites of some items, such as the eldritch blast required for gauntlets of eldritch energy, have no psionic equiva*lent, and so cannot be created by a psionic character without the aid of a character who does meet the requirement.

If you are using the Psionics Is Different variant (EPH 65), then an item created by a psionic character using a psionic item creation feat would be a psionic item. The guidelines given above should be used to determine the psionic item's feat and power prerequisites.

It pretty much just opens up four whole chapters of this book, although you will miss out on Wands, Staves, and Scrolls (not that your equivalent isn't just as good).