Warforged Chronomancer (Time mage) character, ideas needed!

[GodGoblin]

Howdy peeps! Ive had the itching to play a time based caster for a while now and I think having a Warforged as race would be really fitting, it could be more clockwork than most etc Also I just finished watching the first series of Wakfu and Nox is a big source inspiration!

Seen here- http://deliciouscake.wazdat.com/thmb/1286233501309.gif_wakfu_nox.gifTH.jpg
Im not wanting to use homebrew but if there is a really good one I can always take a look, at the moment the only ideas I have are-

Wizard with refluffed spells (Haste, slow, ray of enfeeblement)

-Or-

Psion/Erudite as they have some time based powers, but not sure if the rest of the list will work that well.

For some reason I really dont want him to be a divine caster but any ideas from you guys are welcome! Some thoughts on how to refluff different spells or powers would be cool as well as build ideas in general or a really fitting class I may have ignored :smallsmile:

Thanks in advance!

[Kol Korran]

i don't know the show you're referring to, but i hope these might help. just some thoughts, of the top of my head:
- true strike= glimpse into the future to see where someone will be. of course one might question why not to maybe use this for defense instead?
- mirror image: it conjures actual alter-reality images of you who each chooses a different path (though very similar). when one is hit, it is taken back to his reality.
- if you can get them, there are some clerical spells that might work wonderfully. there is Divine Insight, which you could fluff as having looked ahead in time (yes, this again) to gain some insight to how it's done. but mostly i'm talking about the Omen of Peril, Augury and lets not forget Divination spells. these spells also allows you to "look ahead" instead of divine guidance for answers in the (unclear) future.

good luck with your character!

[supermonkeyjoe]

A warforged dealing with time would be amazing seeing as they essentially do not age, I'm sure some fun could be had with that.

Have you thought about a wizard/psion/cerebremancer type build?

the othe roption would be a Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)

[Fearan]

Swiftblade can timestop for a 6 level spellslot. Also he's overall focused on haste. And it has a 6/10 casting progression. Should work for you

[Urpriest]

I'd go either Swifblade or Psion(Nomad). Both can have a significant time focus. The Swiftblade, as mentioned, goes fast enough to "stop time", I believe as an Ex ability at the end. A Nomad can get actual limited time travel powers, including some that can hop friends or enemies into the future and eventually rewrite the recent (or even not-so-recent, with cheese) past.

[GodGoblin]

Ok so Swiftblade is a yes! In that case im thinking of going Wizard with Maybe one level of Warblade to get the proficiancies, Unless Swordsage would be better if my Wisdom is up to scratch.

Scout is a possibility but I think the ToB ones will give more to make up for that lost caster level.

So Warblade 1/Wizard 5/Swiftblade 10?
Feats I need to take are Dodge and Mobility, not sure on what else as I have never made a Gish before.

Its a shame I will miss out on the actual time travelling powers of the Psionics but im liking the idea of this being a gish build and as for cerebromancer im actually playing one already and hes a Nomad!

Now thats the build kinda sorted, I could use some more ideas on those spells and thanks to Kol Korran for the ones so far, Ill start compiling a list in the first post :smallsmile:

[Fouredged Sword]

Power attack is a must. You can turn into a short term ubercharger with a two handed weapon and truestrike.

getting the twilight enchantment for your composite armor gives it 0% ASF, saveing you a feat and granting you a bit more AC.

Take warblade as the last level you gained before the level the game starts at, every level before it counts 1/2 twards your initiator level. You can sneak in better strikes this way.

You are going to get lots of attacks as a swift blade though. It may be good to go tiger and get blood in the water stance. get a keen kukri in each hand and the TWF feats and you are good to go.

[The Glyphstone]

The value of Dragon Magazine is debatable, but I remember at least one issue with an article about Chronomancy and a collection of time-themed spells.

[Psyren]

Definitely go with Psionics, time is our b****. Bonus points if you have Hyperconscious, for the Chronorebel PrC. And of course, Psiforged don't suffer from arcane spell failure.

[GodGoblin]

Hmm the Psiforged is appealing but Ive decided to do swift blade now as its pretty much perfect, hmm unless I just made a Psionic version then that would be cool.

Good idea about taking Warblade last too!

[Marnath]

If homebrew is acceptable, there's a few neat time spells here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45819) in the playground.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Swiftblade, Nomad, or a general transmutation/necromancy focused wizard with some refluffs would do well without hitting actual time magic. Celerity line, while incredibly broken, fits the theme.

Dragon magazine may have some, but I do not have the source. However, there are a ton of time-based spells in the Dragonlance books, especially Legends of the Twins.

[Ravens_cry]

A tangent.
The -mancer in Chronomancer refers to talking and divination. The suffix -turgy or lurgy, as in thaumaturgy or metallurgy, refers to a working with and of the prefix. Depending on the kind of magic your character is doing, the latter may be more appropriate.
Yes, I know it is common to call a form of magic, whatever it does, suffix-mancer, and I know even necromancy in D&D contains pretty much just one truly necromantic spell, speak with dead.
It just irks is all.
Thank you, we now return you to your usual thread already in progress.

[GodGoblin]

Thansk for all the help with the Chronolurgist (Or just Chronolurge?), as he wants to play with time more than look into it. Hell any time based tangents are welcome as it will help me flesh out the character, whos made of metal... :smallconfused:

Thanks Marnath for the link, I really like the look of those spells. Will show them to whatever DM runs this one. Would be fun spells to have to research etc.

How much does the Twighlight enchantment cost? Im assuming it wouldnt be feasable from level 1? The main problem with power attacking or the TWF idea is that My BaB will suck, reducing my hit chance it probably not the best idea, but crit fishing with that build could be fun...

Ill try and get a build up for critique a bit later, thanks a lot guys :smallbiggrin:

[Amnestic]

Looking at Swiftblade with homebrew allowed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192259)? My answer is clear :P

[Fouredged Sword]

It is cheep. It is a +1 enchantment. Your armor is already enchantable, so 4000gp. Not a first level ability, but likely afordable not long into your game. The ASF isn't that bad for the first few levels, when you are likely to be more of a warblade with a few spells rather than a wizard swinging a sword. You probobly will lose a spell every 20 or so you cast.

You could also beg your Dm to let you apply it before giving it a +1. That would make it a 1000gp cost. Much more reasonable for 2nd level characters.

Also fun for warforged wizards, there are gems in eberon that act as spellbooks, and you can build on into your body as a component. never loose your spellbook again. I also talked a Dm into leting me build a custom haversack that also counted as a spell component pouch, and with it being a part of my character's body he could use the spell component's without reaching inside it.

[Vemynal]

From the SRD:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/sorcererWizardSpells.htm#firstLevelSorcererWizardS pells

Level 1 spells marks the refluffing to time related spells I'll do ??? if I don't know what to do to refluff it.

Refluffing all damage spells to cause "temporary aging effects" like the time manipulator chick from the "Fairy Tale" Manga. So that would make all offensive spells force damage. Unless I can think of something better

Abjur

Alarm: Wards an area for 2 hours/level. ???
Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.???
Hold Portal: Holds door shut. the door becomes fixated at this point in time for the duration of the spell
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders. ???
Shield: Invisible disc gives +4 to AC, blocks magic missiles.You distort time just enough to show your self where you were or are going to be (so they'd "miss" you for the AC bonus and magic missiles not hitting

Conj

Grease: Makes 10-ft. square or one object slippery. Reverse or fast forward time in a certain section of the ground til it breaks down into a liquid state.
Mage Armor: Gives subject +4 armor bonus. You wrap time around you like a blanket, any attempt to hit you has a chance of going in the direction you were a moment ago
Mount: Summons riding horse for 2 hours/level. ???
Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you. You begin to distort time on a visible level, causing reality to grow hazing as all things that might have been or will be collect around you (you could also have people into get brief glimpses of what might happen in a moment)
Summon Monster I: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.???
Unseen Servant: Invisible force obeys your commands. ???

Div

Comprehend Languages: You understand all spoken and written languages ???
Detect Secret Doors: Reveals hidden doors within 60 ft. ???
Detect Undead: Reveals undead within 60 ft. You see in time where the undead once were and where they were going
Identify M: Determines properties of magic item. you envision the item at the moment of its creation and all those who have changed it sense. Reading its history with a touch
True Strike: +20 on your next attack roll. Like someone else said, you know with perfect clarity where your opposition will be next

Ench

Charm Person: Makes one person your friend. ???
Hypnotism: Fascinates 2d4 HD of creatures. all effected are mezmorized by visions of possible futures and pasts while under the effect
Sleep: Puts 4 HD of creatures into magical slumber. reverse time to a moment when the player was asleep

Evoc

Burning Hands: 1d4/level fire damage (max 5d4). You cause the air infront of you to ignite by causing friction with time itself (or you could say that you advance time in an area causing the people caught in it harm)
Floating Disk: Creates 3-ft.-diameter horizontal disk that holds 100 lb./level. ???
Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels above 1st (max 5). You shoot out bursts of time as projectiles that when they hit their target can cause damage by aging the body. this aging effect is temporary
Shocking Grasp: Touch delivers 1d6/level electricity damage (max 5d6). you touch your opponent and the shock from your touch being in a different time then him causes him great harm

Illus

Color Spray: Knocks unconscious, blinds, and/or stuns weak creatures. using time you summon light from the moments of creation outward from your hand
Disguise Self: Changes your appearance. using time you cause yourself to appear as you once did
Magic Aura: Alters object’s magic aura. you sheath the object in time of the past as if it wasn't were it is
Silent Image: Creates minor illusion of your design. ???
Ventriloquism: Throws voice for 1 min./level. ???

Necro

Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds. you show them their own death in a different time stream,, causing fear
Chill Touch: One touch/level deals 1d6 damage and possibly 1 Str damage. previous aging force damage was established by the shock of different time streams meeting. in this case you literally age your opponent
Ray of Enfeeblement: Ray deals 1d6 +1 per two levels Str damage. again, you literally age your opponent, sapping his strength

Trans

Animate Rope: Makes a rope move at your command. ???
Enlarge Person: Humanoid creature doubles in size. ???
Erase: Mundane or magical writing vanishes. you temporarily change time on the page to before the writing was there
Expeditious Retreat: Your speed increases by 30 ft. you fast forward time on specific targets causing them to move faster
Feather Fall: Objects or creatures fall slowly. you slow time on an individual to decrease their descent speed
Jump: Subject gets bonus on Jump checks. ???
Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus. ???
Reduce Person: Humanoid creature halves in size. ???/make into a kid?


I'll leave level 2 and the other spells i couldnt figure out on this list to someone else

[Trixie]

You know, Nox had not only time spells, he had a few others, like Overland Flight, Telekinesis, or Teleport.

Anyway, why not try Artificier? That's essentially what Nox was, he had abilities of his own, but most of it was gear, especially visible in episode 2, or in any episode with Eliacube.

[Das Platyvark]

No real rules suggestions, but
fluff wise, he needs a clock in his belly.

[Cerlis]

mmm, if you are looking at homebrewn, it might be more simple to just turn the swiftblade into a psionic class. that way you can get a swiftblades abilities and the time traveling powers.

[Psyren]

The class features/table for the Chronorebel (from Hyperconscious) are explicitly denoted as Open Content in the copyright blurb, so if you're interested I can post those as well.

[CodeRed]

You simply must take Spell Thematics: Clocks. Shield Spell? Giant Clockface protects you. Magic Missile? Cuckoo clocks fires little birds that unerringly strike. Fireball? Giant Exploding clock and a blast of golden-yellow energy. (I cannot tell you why must time magic to be for some reason seems to be hued as a gold-yellow. Maybe some sort of subconscious link to gold the metal being immune to the ravages of time? Idk.)

That being said, a Battle Sorceror (Unearthed Arcana variant) is a solid entry to Swiftblade as you won't have to sacrifice any caster levels to get there as well as getting the ability to cast in light armor and with Martial Weapon Proficiencies.

As well, the homebrew Swiftblade 20 lvl class Amnestic linked is also really good without being broken. Instead of convoluted loops of gish classes to jump through you could simply be a swiftblade from the beginning with DM approval of course.

[Jude_H]

Battle Sorcerer is useful in cases where it prevents a Sorcerer build from losing 2 CL or more. Swiftblade is not one of those cases.

Chronorebel is very nice, with appropriate abilities for more dramatic time travel than Swiftblade's round or two of manipulation and mechanics that support some fun plot hooks. It has less of a gish direction than Swiftblade, but still has a bit of a warrior angle.

[Psyren]

It would help if the OP clarified what he wanted; he initially seemed to favor a pure casting build but then expressed interest in Swiftblade, i.e. a gish. Which is it?

For a pure-casting "Time Mage" nothing can beat a Psion/Chronorebel (or Ardent/Chronorebel), and especially not a StP Erudite/Chronorebel for the handful of time-themed spells that psionics can't duplicate.

[GodGoblin]

Ok wow this thing boomed when I wasnt looking, thanks though as it had slipped to the back of my mind, so where to begin-

@Trixie: Thats a good point about Nox but im just using him as a point of inspiration rather than trying to replicate him, hes also human too but his armour just makes him look warforgy. As for those spells yeah im planning on taking those too, even if its not time related im going for the reasoning that 'Hes still a wizard.'

@Das Platyvark: Of course! Im also thinking about big ticking cogs as shoulder pads/Pauldrons. Also considered a homebrew Trait- Ticking: You recieve -2 to all Move silently checks but are always aware of the exact time of day. But homebrew is often denied by most DMs so ill try and make him homebrew free, ill make a Non homebrew build and a Homebrew friendly one too I think.

@Cerlis: As said above im trying to steer clear of homebrew just so I can use this guy regardless of the DMs views on homebrewing, but a psionic swiftblade shouldnt be a problem to most. At the moment though Im looking at going Wizard.

@Psyren: If you could post up the Chronorebel anyway that would be great, its always good to have options!

@CodeRed: Im guessing Spell Thematics is a feat? And I cant imagine a DM who would make someone take a feat simply to make the Shield spell look like a clock face, I will be using those ideas as its really damn cool but needing a feat seems pointless when you can just describe it that way. Battle sorcerer is also an option im considering.

@Jude_H: Thanks for the info on Chronorebel, im waiting to see its actual abilities but its certainly an option.

In summary! The original idea was to be a Wizard with a level of Warblade to enter Swiftblade, now however im thinking my no homebrew option will be Battle Sorcerer/Swiftblade, no CL loss, light armour and more spells per day to spam haste. The build for this will be pretty straight forward.

However my Homebrew friendly option will be a Psionic Base Class/Chronorebel/Psionic Swiftblade. This sounds a lot more fun and will require some more complex build advice.

So things I need to know now:
What Psionic base class to take? Psion, Erudite, PsiWar, Ardent?

The actual abilities of Chronorebel.

What powers and feats should I look into taking?

Any tips on running a PsiForged? Also hooray for Adamantine plating!

Thanks for all the new input and ideas guys, I can see finally see him taking shape. Also wow this was a long post... :smallbiggrin:

Edit- Just saw Psyrens new post, Now im looking at being a Psionic Gish rather than full caster.

[vampire2948]

There's a v3.0 sourcebook called 'Chronomancy : The Power of Time' or similar. Has many spells that affect age of targets, and a few other things.

Also has rules for travelling through time either way, but usually DMs shut the book at that point and glare at you.

[GodGoblin]

Ah yeah ive seen that book, I will try and lift some stuff from it but I think most of it will get the DMG thrown at you. :smalltongue:

[Fax Celestis]

I would totally go artificer myself, and craft magic items that I refluff as futuristic space tech. "That's not a wand of fireball, that's the magazine for my flamethrower."

[TwylyghT]

He just begs to be named after a watch band, Lucien Piccard or some such lol :smallbiggrin:

For quite a while I ran Wurlitzer the WF Bard, even talked the DM into letting me modify several instruments as WF components and use Preform(Band Organ)

[Edge]

*cough* (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11550318)

This may be of some interest to you.[/shamelessplug]

[Psyren]

Sorry about the delay - one Chronorebel coming up.

First, I'll avert any potential Mod Wrath by quoting the copyright blurb from Hyperconscious:


Designation of Open Game Content: Subject to the Product Identity designation above, the following portions of Hyperconscious: Explorations in Psionics are designated as Open Game Content: the class advancement tables and Class Features in Chapter Eight; the feats in their entirety in Chapter Four; the power parameters (range, duration, etc.) and game mechanics in Chapter Seven; the psionic items of Chapter Five in their entirety; and anything else contained herein which is already Open Game Content by virtue of appearing in the System Reference Document or some other Open Game Content source.

You've probably already guessed from my bolding that Chapter 8 of Hyperconscious is the prestige class chapter. Yay!

Chronorebel
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Mode Check Bonus|Special|Powers

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+0|Timeless 1/day|
-

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+0|
+0|Slow Light|+1 level of existing manifesting class

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+1|
+1|Prescience +1|+1 level of existing manifesting class

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+1|
+1|Causal Loop|+1 level of existing manifesting class

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+1|
+1|Backslip|+1 level of existing manifesting class

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+2|
+2|Precognition +1|+1 level of existing manifesting class

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+2|
+2|Timeless 2/day|+1 level of existing manifesting class

8th|
+6|
+2|
+6|
+2|
+2|Temporal Concussion|+1 level of existing manifesting class

9th|
+6|
+3|
+6|
+3|
+3|Temporal Focus|+1 level of existing manifesting class

10th|
+7|
+3|
+7|
+3|
+3|Chronosynchrony|
-[/table]

Timeless (Su): "Once per day when he expends his psionic focus as part of a swift action, a chronorebel’s personal time frame speeds up in relation to the standard time frame so that all other creatures seem frozen; however, they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. The character can act freely for 1 round. While he is timeless, other creatures are invulnerable to his attacks; however, he can create psionic effects and leave them to take effect when his timeless period ends. (The durations of the psionic powers do not begin until the timeless period is over.) The character cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but he can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession. He is undetectable while the timeless period lasts. He cannot enter an area protected by a null psionics field, or by magical protection from chaos/evil/good/law as appropriate for his alignment, or by a magic circle spell. If the character passes through normal or magical fire, cold, gas, and the like, these energy effects harm him normally. As the chronorebel gains levels, he gains additional usages of his timeless ability per day as shown on the table."

Slow Light Latency (Ex): "At 2nd level, the chronorebel unleashes a latent time-related power from his mind—he learns slow light† as if normally learning a new power through gaining an effective manifester level; however, the chronorebel learns slow light in addition to any other powers he otherwise learns. If the character already knows this power, he can choose another Psychoportation power of equal or lower level to unlock from latency."

(Psyren note: slow light is effectively psionic blur, scaled down to 1st level.)

Prescience +1 (Su): "Starting at 3rd level, when the character manifests defensive precognition, he gains the added benefit of a +1 bonus to his Armor Class."

Causal Loop Latency (Ex): (See slow light latency, but for the causal loop power. Causal Loop is like an AoE Deja Vu.)

Causal Loop Latency (Ex): (See slow light latency, but for the causal loop power. Causal Loop is like an AoE Deja Vu.)

Backslip (Ps):(Let's you step a full round back in time 1/day. Lots of fine print, which boils down to "you don't have to remember exactly how things were e.g. monster/player positions etc., thanks to paradox, and the DM is the final judge of how things will play out the second time.)

Temporal Concussion Latency (Ex): (Your third free power. Temporal Concussion is a ray that deals modest HP damage with a chance of Int damage.)

Temporal Focus (Ex): "Starting at 9th level, all the chronorebel’s time-related powers become more potent. The character adds +2 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against powers he manifests that directly manipulate time to achieve their effect, such as temporal concussion."

Chronosynchrony (Ps): (Travel back in time, from a minimum of 17 days back all the way to 500 * ML years. Tons of fine print on this one as you can imagine.)

[GodGoblin]

Thanks Psyren, that looks awesome! Will definatly be used in the build. Have you got the entry requirments?

Only things left to figure out are-
What base class to enter Chronorebel and swiftblade with?
What powers and feats should I look into taking?
Should I go for Psi forged or Adamantium plating? Just realised I cant have both :smallannoyed:

[Psyren]

Concentration 8 ranks, Know (Psionics+History) 2 ranks each, Speed of Thought, and offensive+defensive precognition.

Nomad is probably the best choice, but you can actually get a lot of mileage out of this class with a Psywar too as they can qualify just as easily.

As for your plating - You don't need Psiforged for any psionic class, going with it is purely a thematic choice. Since you're going with a gish-esque route, I would probably stick with Adamantine. Not that the ammunition isn't handy but it won't help you too much at low levels, whereas Adamantine's drawback doesn't hurt psionics.

[GodGoblin]

Ah brilliant thanks, the only reason I was thinking about taking Psiforged was to increase the PP of the PsiWar but I do love Adamantine plating oh so much! :smallbiggrin:

Would it be best to mix up Swift blade and Chronorebel or take one class then the next? Im pretty new to psionics, im playing a psion going into Cerebremancer at the mo but its so far my only experience.