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The Rabbler
2011-06-30, 01:37 PM
So far I've heard of SotAO wildshaping ranger 5/MoMF 1, but that's about it (and frankly, that doesn't sound like all that much fun). What other builds actually work in E6?

Terazul
2011-06-30, 01:48 PM
Anything that's heavily dependent on feats but not particularly levels. Like the last (and only) time I've played, I ran around with a charging/Dungeoncrasher fighter who just used a giant shield to knock people around.

Knaight
2011-06-30, 02:15 PM
Basically anything. You have plenty of options, just like in normal D&D.

The Rabbler
2011-06-30, 02:19 PM
Basically anything. You have plenty of options, just like in normal D&D.

But there are many fewer options in E6. For example, you can't pick a PrC with requirements above that of a level 5, dread necromancers become near useless (they get good at level 8), and dipping is much harder to do without ruining your build.

dextercorvia
2011-06-30, 02:25 PM
Totemists, and Totemist/Bards come out strong.

Wizards and Druids are good (as always).

Master Spellthief Chameleons make awesome blasters.

Hawk7915
2011-06-30, 02:32 PM
In terms of Arcane casters, Sorcerer loses a lot, as you get access to only one 3rd level spell (although, thanks to "Epic" feats and "Extra Spell", you can have almost any 2nd level spell you want). Beguiler, on the other hand, is awesome: a skillmonkey spellcaster with a mountain of spells/day, who can cast from their entire list spontaneously. Wizard is as good as it ever was, even with only 3rd level spells, since you'll know at least 4 of them and can add more via scrolls.

Druids and Clerics are still very high tier, although for Cleric perhaps less so. Most of the Cleric's best "I'm a better fighter than the fighter" spells are 4th level or higher, so they aren't quite as awesome. But the druid can still wildshape, boasts a powerful companion, and has great spells.

I've read that a mix-and-match of full BAB classes isn't too bad in E6: Something like Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Ranger 3 gets crazy saves and a lot of miscellaneous random abilities (tons of bonus feats, decent skills, tons of HP, a +7 Fort save, Pounce, Rage, Favored Enemy...)

Probably the only character concept that sort of falls apart in E6 is the Gish: it's pretty much go Duskblade or go home.

wayfare
2011-06-30, 02:35 PM
E6 tends to balance things out to a degree in terms of power, so anything is up for grabs. You could even play a straight Fighter and not feel too bad about the outcome.

The Druid is often referred to as the "king" of E6, and there is a lot of truth to this -- being two characters is always a benefit, especially at lower levels when you are not running into enemies with DR/Magic or/Alignment.

It strikes me that the Paladin would suffer more in E6 because the spellcasting happens so late, but I wont say that for certain, as I've never played one.

Rogue is very solid, great as DPS or skillmonkey. I'm no an expert on tiers, but I think E6 might actually bump the Rogue up a tier in terms of usefulness.

Finally, incarnum really shines once you hit 6th level. This is because you can keep taking incarnum feats which open up more powerful abilities as you gain XP. With a long enough campaign, you could even open up your heart and soul chakras and pull up some nice melds to shape.

Flickerdart
2011-06-30, 02:39 PM
Paladin's problem is that your horse is only around for 4 hours each day. If you can trade it out, it'll help.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-06-30, 02:52 PM
You're better off skipping MoMF and using Wildshape Ranger plus Mystic Ranger with SotAO. That gets you third level spells from both the Ranger and Wizard spell lists, +6 BAB, Ranger saves and skill points, Fleshraker form 12 hrs/day, and access to Ranger capstone feats.

Then there's the Spellhoarding Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Loredrake, Martial Wizard (Conjurer) 1/ Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/ Mindbender 1, with Collegiate Wizard (requires a flaw), Abrupt Jaunt, Draconic Rite of Passage (Charm Person), Draconic Reserve, Greater Draconic Rite of Passage, and Mindsight. That gets ninth level wizard spellcasting ability, and you know four 5th level spells and eight 4th level spells regardless of whether spells of that level would be available. You get Scribe Scroll and Eschew Materials for free, and your spells are written on your scales so there's no risk of losing a spellbook. You can copy the same spell onto your scales multiple times, and sacrifice a copied spell to cast it as though from a scroll or to substitute costly material and XP components of your spells. I'd probably I'd probably stick to 'Look what I can do!' spells like Baleful Polymorph, Transmute Rock to Mud, Wall of Stone, and of course Teleport for the 5th level choices. 4th level would be no-holds-barred Solid Fog, Black Tentacles, Enervation, Summon Undead IV or Animate Dead, Arcane Eye or Scrying, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Heart of Earth, and Greater Invisibility. Coincidentally you would be able to get Craft Rod and get another character or NPC to help cooperatively make metamagic rods.

wayfare
2011-06-30, 02:56 PM
You're better off skipping MoMF and using Wildshape Ranger plus Mystic Ranger with SotAO. That gets you third level spells from both the Ranger and Wizard spell lists, +6 BAB, Ranger saves and skill points, Fleshraker form 12 hrs/day, and access to Ranger capstone feats.

Then there's the Spellhoarding Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Loredrake, Martial Wizard (Conjurer) 1/ Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/ Mindbender 1, with Collegiate Wizard (requires a flaw), Abrupt Jaunt, Draconic Rite of Passage (Charm Person), Draconic Reserve, Greater Draconic Rite of Passage, and Mindsight. That gets ninth level wizard spellcasting ability, and you know four 5th level spells and eight 4th level spells regardless of whether spells of that level would be available. You get Scribe Scroll and Eschew Materials for free, and your spells are written on your scales so there's no risk of losing a spellbook. You can copy the same spell onto your scales multiple times, and sacrifice a copied spell to cast it as though from a scroll or to substitute costly material and XP components of your spells. I'd probably I'd probably stick to 'Look what I can do!' spells like Baleful Polymorph, Transmute Rock to Mud, Wall of Stone, and of course Teleport for the 5th level choices. 4th level would be no-holds-barred Solid Fog, Black Tentacles, Enervation, Summon Undead IV or Animate Dead, Arcane Eye or Scrying, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Heart of Earth, and Greater Invisibility. Coincidentally you would be able to get Craft Rod and get another character or NPC to help cooperatively make metamagic rods.

...
But...but..its E6.
Why do this do E6?

WHY!!??

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-06-30, 03:00 PM
Seriously though, as far as playable characters go, the Wild Shape Mystic Ranger 6 with Sword of the Arcane Order is pretty much the strongest it gets. Though that Kobold would make a spectacular BBEG!

Fox Box Socks
2011-06-30, 03:01 PM
Because he's trying to destroy fun.

SamBurke
2011-06-30, 03:02 PM
It strikes me that the Paladin would suffer more in E6 because the spellcasting happens so late, but I wont say that for certain, as I've never played one.

Rogue is very solid, great as DPS or skillmonkey.

As to Paladins, they're relatively strong without their spells. In fact, the spells are practically worthless. REALLY worthless. We're talking between cantrip and first level, through much of it. Level three/four is about one/two on say, the wizard list. Not cool. But hey, still have some goooood power and fighting capabilities.

What's "DPS"? I keep hearing about that...

The Rabbler
2011-06-30, 03:06 PM
Seriously though, as far as playable characters go, the Wild Shape Mystic Ranger 6 with Sword of the Arcane Order is pretty much the strongest it gets. Though that Kobold would make a spectacular BBEG!

That kobold would make a scary BBEG...

What are these ranger capstone feats though? that sounds quite interesting.


As to Paladins, they're relatively strong without their spells. In fact, the spells are practically worthless. REALLY worthless. We're talking between cantrip and first level, through much of it. Level three/four is about one/two on say, the wizard list. Not cool. But hey, still have some goooood power and fighting capabilities.

What's "DPS"? I keep hearing about that...

I think I'd pick fighter over the paladin in E6 anyway...

DPS is a MMORPG term for a class/character who is build around doing damage as quickly as possible.

JaronK
2011-06-30, 03:07 PM
DPS = Damage per second. It comes from MMORPGs where damage dealers matter only in how much damage they can do.

Anyway, Clerics are nasty in E6... Animate Dead at level 5 is quite nice. Really, the whole legions of the dead concept works amazingly for the classes that can do it... it's a shame Dread Necromancers have so much trouble with it, though I think there's some feats that might help.

JaronK

Yora
2011-06-30, 03:08 PM
We got a quite comprehensive list of Prestige Classes that are available for E6 characters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204298). There are some really good options in there.

And cleric are nasty in everything. :smallamused:

Akal Saris
2011-06-30, 03:08 PM
"DPS" is a damage-dealer, like a barbarian or a rogue. It comes from 'damage per second,' short-hand from Everquest raiding I believe.

I played a Paladin 5/Beastmaster 1 (no SoTAO or wildshaping, just a ridiculously strong mount), a Conjurer 5/Alienist 1 (no special tricks, just summoning), and a Fighter 6 who specialized in shields. All were fun enough, though the campaigns were short-lived.

Gnaeus
2011-06-30, 03:09 PM
What's "DPS"? I keep hearing about that...

DPS is an MMO term meaning Damage Per Second. In D&D it would more accurately be called DPR (Damage Per Round). A DPS class is a high damage class that isn't a tank, like a rogue, or some gishes.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-06-30, 03:10 PM
The Ranger capstone feat (found here (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?352719-necro-goodness-E6-The-Game-Inside-D-amp-D), contained in a spoiler):
Step of the Wild lands
Prereq: Ranger 6
Benefit: You gain the Woodland Stride and Swift Tracking class abilities.

Not bad at all, plus you can get Extra Wild Shape to be in Fleshraker form 24 hours/day.


Another one is Sneak Attack Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) (with Thug (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug)), considering you would still qualify for weapon specialization and the Fighter capstone that lets you take Improved Crit, Greater Weapon Focus, and Melee Weapon Mastery. The extra E6 feats makes the loss of the Fighter bonus feats in exchange for 3d6 sneak attack worthwhile in the right build:

Whisper Gnome Sneak Attack Thug 6, Weapon Finesse, TWF, ITWF, Craven, Extra Silence, Silencing Strike, EWP: Kaorti Resin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a) Barbed Dagger, Weapon Focus: Dagger, Weapon Specialization: Dagger, Martial Veteran (Fighter capstone), Melee Weapon Mastery (piercing), Greater Weapon Focus: Dagger, Improved Critical: Dagger, Ranged Weapon Mastery (piercing), Quick-Draw, Martial Study: Cloak of Deception, Martial Stance: Child of Shadow or Island of Blades, Shadow Blade, Ability Training: Dex (E6), Ability Advancement: Dex (E6), TWDefense, ITWDefense, etc.

He'll get four attacks/round with a full attack, assuming Str 10 and Dex 26 (18 base, +2 race, +2 E6 feat, +4 enhancement) and +1 Kaorti Resin Barbed Daggers he'd get +18/+18/+13/+13, 1d3+13 (+3d6+8 sneak attack), 17-20/x4. He could also throw daggers, assuming masterwork daggers it would be the same attack bonuses, damage would be 1d3+5 (+3d6+6 sneak attack), 17-20/x2, with 30 ft. range increments.

Tyndmyr
2011-06-30, 03:12 PM
...
But...but..its E6.
Why do this do E6?

WHY!!??

....why not?

E6 optimization is a fun game, because...while anyone can make a strong 20 level build, breaking the game with tighter restrictions is a blast.

The Rabbler
2011-06-30, 03:18 PM
I think I'll build one of:


Mystic Wildshape Ranger 6 w/ SotAO
Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Ordained Champion 1
Spirit Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1/fighter 1/warblade 2/Fist of the Forest 2
Incarnate 6
Artficer 6


Anything else I should consider before I start building?

Tyndmyr
2011-06-30, 03:27 PM
Artificer 6.

Seriously, why not? It's the most straightforward access to all sorts of good things.

The Rabbler
2011-06-30, 03:30 PM
Artificer 6.

Seriously, why not? It's the most straightforward access to all sorts of good things.

you know, I don't think I've ever played an artificer before. Why not?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-06-30, 03:39 PM
A Warblade 6 (or Warblade 3/ Fighter 2/ Warblade 1) qualifies for Weapon Specialization, and can get Iron Heart Surge. I'd probably replace Fighter with Barbarian in that, use Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ), and get Extra Rage at least once. Possibly use Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) and get Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown) with the Lion Spiritual Totem ACF for Pounce instead of Fast Movement. Take EWP: Ritiik (Frostburn) instead of Knock-Down for added shenanigans, since it gets lodged in an opponent on every attack and you can yank it out to deal extra damage equal to the initial hit thus doubling your damage per hit. Be sure to get Power Attack and Leap Attack, and maybe even Intimidating Rage and Imperious Command with the Never Outnumbered skill trick, and if you want to max your Intimidate check get Skill Focus and go Half-Orc to get Menacing Demeanor.

The Rabbler
2011-06-30, 03:43 PM
I just got word from my DM that we will be playing an elf campaign. Looking at all of the builds I have to choose from, none of them care about charisma. Is there some sort of elf variant that carries a penalty to charisma? Beyond that, I don't really care what the bonus is to.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-06-30, 03:44 PM
Snow Elf in Frostburn, +2 Dex, -2 Cha.

There's also Fire Elves (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfFire), +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Cha, and the general traits of fire races in addition to everything an Elf gets.

The Rabbler
2011-06-30, 03:46 PM
Snow Elf in Frostburn, +2 Dex, -2 Cha.

That works, thanks.

And thanks to everyone who posted in the thread. You've all given me quite a few good ideas.

Marnath
2011-06-30, 03:47 PM
In terms of Arcane casters, Sorcerer loses a lot, as you get access to only one 3rd level spell (although, thanks to "Epic" feats and "Extra Spell", you can have almost any 2nd level spell you want).

There's an E6 specific feat called Expanded Spell Knowledge that lets you have a spell or spells whose total levels equal half your caster level, I.E. a 3rd level spell, a 1st and a 2nd level spell or 3 1st level/6 0th level spells. There's also a companion feat to that one that provides spell slots by the same formula.

stainboy
2011-06-30, 03:58 PM
Artificers would be pretty awesome in E6, because they'd get to break the 3rd level cap for any spell that comes as a weapon or armor enchantment. (It's not many - Control Undead and Etherealness, off the top of my head - but nobody else gets to have that.) Technically an artificer can cast 4th level spells from level 5 just by making scrolls, but a lot of people play E6 on the premise that 4th+ level spells don't exist, which solves that.

You get to play in the levels where the Spell Storing Item infusion still casts max-level spells and Bane weapons still make a big difference. This is awesome. You also get to play in a game where burning gold eventually stops being a big deal even if your DM doesn't follow WBL. E6 characters will eventually run out of new slotted items to buy and have tons of money for consumables. This is exactly where an artificer wants to be.

The only downside is that if you follow the errata you can't get Metamagic Trigger in E6.

Tyndmyr
2011-06-30, 04:01 PM
Yeah, it's not a complicated build...but it does have oomph.

And in a world where the best item creator around is you, life is pretty awesome.

The 4th level spells not existing thing also gimps a lot of monsters, IMO. So, whichever way the DM decides, you win.

On the Expanded Spell Knowledge topic...it couples extremely well with CL boosting, which is useful in it's own right.

Salbazier
2011-06-30, 04:02 PM
You're better off skipping MoMF and using Wildshape Ranger plus Mystic Ranger with SotAO. That gets you third level spells from both the Ranger and Wizard spell lists, +6 BAB, Ranger saves and skill points, Fleshraker form 12 hrs/day, and access to Ranger capstone feats.

Then there's the Spellhoarding Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Loredrake, Martial Wizard (Conjurer) 1/ Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/ Mindbender 1, with Collegiate Wizard (requires a flaw), Abrupt Jaunt, Draconic Rite of Passage (Charm Person), Draconic Reserve, Greater Draconic Rite of Passage, and Mindsight. That gets ninth level wizard spellcasting ability, and you know four 5th level spells and eight 4th level spells regardless of whether spells of that level would be available. You get Scribe Scroll and Eschew Materials for free, and your spells are written on your scales so there's no risk of losing a spellbook. You can copy the same spell onto your scales multiple times, and sacrifice a copied spell to cast it as though from a scroll or to substitute costly material and XP components of your spells. I'd probably I'd probably stick to 'Look what I can do!' spells like Baleful Polymorph, Transmute Rock to Mud, Wall of Stone, and of course Teleport for the 5th level choices. 4th level would be no-holds-barred Solid Fog, Black Tentacles, Enervation, Summon Undead IV or Animate Dead, Arcane Eye or Scrying, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Heart of Earth, and Greater Invisibility. Coincidentally you would be able to get Craft Rod and get another character or NPC to help cooperatively make metamagic rods.

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Makes me wonder how, in-character, how the inhabitants of E6 world will react to montrosities like this.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-06-30, 04:10 PM
"It turned me into a newt!"

Between Heart of Earth and Abrupt Jaunt, I doubt any mob of torches and pitchforks would even be able to take on that kobold. You could replace Transmute Rock to Mud with Cloudkill and he would be able to just obliterate a whole town, hence his BBEG potential. Most commoners would be afraid of him for sure. With Lesser Globe of Invulnerability and Greater Invisibility, Heart of Water/Earth, maybe Overland Flight (or the Dragon Wings feat), and maybe even Mobile Spellcaster or Flyby Attack, he would be an incredibly difficult fight for an E6 party.

Hazzardevil
2011-06-30, 04:23 PM
Frankly, in E ToB and Warllocks win, a Crusader can dump cha and spend feats so he knows every maneuver available, and stances.
This combined with adaptive style means that he can fight forever without breaks.

Now the warlock wins when he makes a scroll of desecrate for an aerial platform and skeletal archers along with every least andd lesser invocation at-will along with 2 greaters which I think are roughly equal to level 5 or 6 spells.

Who wants to try an E6 game with our monstrousities?

Knaight
2011-06-30, 04:32 PM
Frankly, in E ToB and Warllocks win, a Crusader can dump cha and spend feats so he knows every maneuver available, and stances.

Spellcasters hold their own in e6, as do non ToB combat classes that actually have class features, Incarnum users, so on and so forth. Multiclassing also continues to work just fine, and e6 really levels out balance more than destroying it.

Amnestic
2011-06-30, 04:38 PM
That works, thanks.

And thanks to everyone who posted in the thread. You've all given me quite a few good ideas.

You could attach the Arctic Template too to be an Arctic Snow Elf for +2 Dex, +2 Con and -4 Cha :smalltongue:

The Rabbler
2011-06-30, 05:00 PM
You could attach the Arctic Template too to be an Arctic Snow Elf for +2 Dex, +2 Con and -4 Cha :smalltongue:

It's either that or Fire elf, depending on what I end up playing. Thanks though, I hadn't considered arctic elf.

Zaq
2011-06-30, 07:22 PM
Honestly, the only class that really fails at E6 is the Fighter, and that's just because their one advantage gets less and less special (even compared to how it was in the first place) as people accumulate more and more feats. Oh, and Shadowcasters, since they only really become decent at 7th.

I'm currently playing an Incarnate 5 / Ironsoul Forgemaster 1, and he's a lot of fun. Definitely not the strongest member of the party, but he's got a lot of fun tricks that nobody else can pull off, and he's fun to play. He's also damn hard to kill, if he wants to be.

Really, though, just about anything can be made functional in E6. Some classes are clearly stronger than others, yes, but just about anything can be functional if you know what you're doing. Hell, do a board search for the Iron Chef Appetizer Edition . . . we made Divine Mind actually worthwhile. Divine Mind! I would actually seriously consider bringing in my entry (Dusk Glitter, if you were keeping track) as a replacement if my current character dies.

So yeah, just about anything works in E6.

Doktor Per
2011-06-30, 07:26 PM
Vow of Poverty Monk / Fighter usually works out pretty nice. You pretty much become the NOT ON MY WATCH! guy. Taking your opponents weapons and then smacking 'em with them.

Gavinfoxx
2011-06-30, 07:50 PM
Vow of Poverty Monk / Fighter usually works out pretty nice. You pretty much become the NOT ON MY WATCH! guy. Taking your opponents weapons and then smacking 'em with them.

Uh, I think you are playing a different game than most of the people in this thread...

Knaight
2011-06-30, 09:58 PM
Uh, I think you are playing a different game than most of the people in this thread...

In e6 a Monk dip is pretty useful. 2 levels gets you several feats, and significant save bonuses across the board. Monk2/Warblade 4 would be perfectly functional, and VoP is way more useful in E6 than in longer running games. I'd argue its still way less useful than actual magic items, but the point remains.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-06-30, 11:30 PM
In E6 VoP will never go past 6th level bonuses, whereas as you continue adventuring and gaining virtual levels beyond 6th, you will continue accumulating wealth and thus leave the VoP bonuses in the dust. VoP is an even worse trap in E6 than it is in a 1-20+ game.

veven
2011-07-01, 12:05 AM
Dungeon Crasher Thug Fighter is pretty much a unique class in an of itself. You don't get any bonus feats (which is fine in E6) you get useful dungeon abilities and a great bull rush attack and 4 skill points/lvl off of a decent list. Super fun if you just wanna play a tough guy.

Another pretty fun idea is to go

Sword Sage 1/Crusader 3/Wardblade 1/Crusader 1. You get a bucket of maneuvers(15 and 4 stances before extra feats), 1st lvls from Sword Sage, 2nd lvls from Warblade (Emerald Razor and the two available save replacers are what I took), and 3rd lvl Crusader maneuvers. You can change up the combination to your liking just as long as your 4 lvl class takes it's last level at the end. Adaptive style is a necessity for this not to be the biggest pain in the world.

Zonugal
2011-07-01, 12:59 AM
Dungeon Crasher Thug Fighter is pretty much a unique class in an of itself. You don't get any bonus feats (which is fine in E6) you get useful dungeon abilities and a great bull rush attack and 4 skill points/lvl off of a decent list. Super fun if you just wanna play a tough guy.

If you throw on Zhentarim substitution levels you can add an additional social talent to the Fighter, be it scarying others.

Knaight
2011-07-01, 01:00 AM
In E6 VoP will never go past 6th level bonuses, whereas as you continue adventuring and gaining virtual levels beyond 6th, you will continue accumulating wealth and thus leave the VoP bonuses in the dust. VoP is an even worse trap in E6 than it is in a 1-20+ game.

Virtual levels that never really get beyond 10th at best. Moreover, you have enough feats and few enough magic items in play to compensate for the typical weaknesses to some degree. For instance, the various Open Chakra, Soulbind, etc. feats can shore up on mobility, and the absolute need to have flying at all times never really shows up.

VoP is still suboptimal, but it is certainly a lot less suboptimal. By sheer numbers it might be worse, but on the options side less exists to outstrip it.

The Rabbler
2011-07-01, 07:51 AM
Virtual levels that never really get beyond 10th at best. Moreover, you have enough feats and few enough magic items in play to compensate for the typical weaknesses to some degree. For instance, the various Open Chakra, Soulbind, etc. feats can shore up on mobility, and the absolute need to have flying at all times never really shows up.

VoP is still suboptimal, but it is certainly a lot less suboptimal. By sheer numbers it might be worse, but on the options side less exists to outstrip it.

Unless your party has an artificer.

McSmack
2011-07-01, 09:45 AM
Unless your party has an artificer.

That statement is true of so many things. that's why I love artificers

Midnight_v
2011-07-01, 10:38 AM
I think the Psychic warrior is pretty awesome in e-6 someone should play it.

Human Psywar 6.
feats:
H: Psionic Talent (+2pp)(+2hp)
Lvl 1: Psionic Body (+2 PP per hp/per Psionic feat)(+2hp)
Bonus 1: Psionic Talent (+3pp)(+2hp)
Bonus 2: Psionic Talent (+4pp)(+2hp)
Lvl 3: Psionic Talent (+5pp)(+2hp)
Bonus 5 Psionic Talent (+6pp)(+2hp)
Lvl 6: Expanded Knowldege: (Level 1 power Likely Energy Ray)(+2hp)
+18 pp from feats
+14 hp from feats
----------------------
Hp at level 6?: 44.5
PP@ level 6? (with 14 or 15 wis) 35
------------------------
Okay likely you need overchannel. Thats going to let you cast:
Expansion Huge
and Claws of the beast at 7pp for 3d6, the two stack so you get some impressive damage.
And huge size.
..................
Also, you gain 2hp's whenever you pick a psionic feat.
Other Awesome things to pick come from regular psiwar things, if you get more sources than the srd.
Linked power
Metapower
Earthpower
------------------------

I'm not going to lie, this things really a boss monster I alwasys wanted to use when I was dm'ing. So it could be really strong if someone wants to do it as a player.

You can also go into something like
Dodge, Combat expertise, Combat reflexes, Karmic Strike, Standstill is optional, Overchannel.
Then you take psionic body and start your, power point/hp stacking, and you're really uniquely dangerous in a variety of ways.

Not quite the king of smack? Though you might be something similar in some way, if you get linked power vigor.


If you throw on Zhentarim substitution levels you can add an additional social talent to the Fighter, be it scarying others That sounds cool too, you don't get uhm... imperious command in e-6 do you?
Human Ferocity variant Barbarian1/Zhentarim Fighter5
(You're going to need a charisma score for this so you're using basically using something like paladin stats)
H: Dreadful Wrath
1: Intimidating Rage
3:
6: Imperious Command
You're gonna need the skill trick never outnumbered as well.
You get 3 fighter feats too... and you can start going any direction you want, Standstill/ Trip/Karmic strike, Spiked chain, etc.
As well as potentially using some dungeon crashing depending if you really wanna use a non traditional fighter, build.
You generate a fear aura and stop lots of critters (not undead etc. but you can use the pounce from barbarian).
I left the level 3 feat open incase you want to NOT take ferocity variant bacause you can take instantaeous rage as well if so thats the spot for it.

Got an answer on that. You can.

Talya
2011-07-01, 03:56 PM
Druid is still quite the queen of the forest, here.

Druid 5/Beastmaster 1. Take natural bond. Take a 7th level druid companion (which BM lets them qualify for), which would make their effective druid level 3, but then natural bond boosts it back up to 6. So that Dire Eagle Warbeast flying mount with the full 6th level Druid +4 bonus hit dice sound nice? How about a magebred ghost tiger? Horrid Bat? Brown Bear?

I'd normally hesitate to trade away that extra wildshape, but in E6, extra wildshape uses are just a feat away...all you really end up losing is a single level 3 spell slot. Beastmaster ends up being an awesome druid PrC in E6. (I suppose it's not a terrible single level dip in normal d20 either...)

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-07-01, 04:54 PM
Dire Eagle is only 'level -3' so you would still count as a 9th level Druid for its benefits. With Warbeast that would be a 12 HD companion, or if you wanted to go something like Druid 4/ Bloodline 1/ Beastmaster 1 with Exalted Companion to get a Celestial Dire Eagle Warbeast it would still be 12 HD and it could have Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty, to get 12th level VoP bonuses. If you skip the Bloodline level it would only get 8th level Druid benefits, but that's still not bad at all. Here you go:
Celestial Dire Eagle Warbeast animal companion (Druid 9)
Large Magical Beast (augmented animal, extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 12d8+72 (126 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 20 ft. (2 squares), fly 70 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 38 (–1 size, +7 Dex, +12 natural, +8 exalted, +2 deflection), touch 18, flat-footed 31
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+24
Attack: Talon +21 melee (1d8+13)
Full Attack: 2 talons +21 melee (1d8+13 plus Golden Ice) and bite +19 melee (1d8+7 plus Golden Ice)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Smite Evil 1/day (+12 damage), exalted strike +2 (good, magic), Touch of Golden Ice (DC 22)
Special Qualities: Lowlight vision, darkvision 60 ft., resist acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, spell resistance 17, damage reduction 10/magic, devotion, evasion, link, share spells, combative mount, sustenance, greater sustenance, mind shielding, endure elements
Saves: Fort +15, Ref +16, Will +7
Abilities: Str 32, Dex 24, Con 22, Int 3, Wis 16, Cha 6
Skills: Listen +5, Spot +28
Feats: Alertness, Flyby Attack, Multiattack, Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Touch of Golden Ice, Combat Reflexes, Sanctify Natural Attack
Environment: Celestia
Organization: Animal Companion
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Good
Advancement: Animal Companion
Level Adjustment: —

Celestial Dire Eagle Warbeast animal companion (Druid 8)
Large Magical Beast (augmented animal, extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 10d8+50 (95 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 20 ft. (2 squares), fly 70 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 33 (–1 size, +6 Dex, +10 natural, +7 exalted, +1 deflection), touch 16, flat-footed 27
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+20
Attack: Talon +17 melee (1d8+11)
Full Attack: 2 talons +17 melee (1d8+11) and bite +12 melee (1d8+6)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Smite Evil 1/day (+10 damage), exalted strike +2 (good, magic), Touch of Golden Ice (DC 20)
Special Qualities: Lowlight vision, darkvision 60 ft., resist acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, spell resistance 15, damage reduction 5/magic, devotion, evasion, link, share spells, combative mount, sustenance, mind shielding, endure elements
Saves: Fort +13, Ref +14, Will +6
Abilities: Str 29, Dex 22, Con 20, Int 3, Wis 16, Cha 6
Skills: Listen +5, Spot +26
Feats: Alertness, Flyby Attack, Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Touch of Golden Ice
Environment: Celestia
Organization: Animal Companion
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Good
Advancement: Animal Companion
Level Adjustment: —

That's right, AC in the thirties, insane stats all around (HP, attacks, damage, saves), Spot check in the twenties, SR, DR, energy resistances, evasion, Golden Ice DC in the twenties... and with a Druid buffing it with Nature's Favor and spamming Snake's Swiftness (not even necessary), it can take on anything that would pose a challenge to an E6 party.

Talya
2011-07-01, 04:57 PM
Dire Eagle is only 'level -3' so you would still count as a 9th level Druid for its benefits.

Hmm. PHB2 shows it as -6.

Edit: definitely -6. Dire hawk is -3, if and only if you're a raptoran. Dire Eagle is always -6. PHB pg. 41.

Kaje
2011-07-01, 05:16 PM
Don't forget you can only take martial study three times.

Incarnum would probably do well. Spend feats to get essentia and the soulmelds you'll use a lot, while using your class-granted slots for the more situational stuff.

You can be an effective tank as a crusader with shape soulmeld: therapeutic mantle or an incarnate with martial stance: martial spirit.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-07-01, 05:24 PM
Races of Stone says it's available to 4th level Druids, and there's no errata. PH2 presents a reference table whereas RoS specifies it in a text entry. Therefore, it's available to 4th level Druids at the standard cost (Level -3) as described in a very specific paragraph of text, despite what PH2's clearly misprinted quick reference table says.

gorfnab
2011-07-02, 01:17 AM
Beguiler 5/ Mage of the Arcane Order 1
Feats:
1. Arcane Preparation
3. Cooperative Spell
6. Versatile Spellcaster
Lots of skills, casting in light armor is nice, slightly more hp than a wizard, decent spell list from Beguiler, spontaneous spellcasting with same number of spells per day as a sorcerer, access to any 3rd level or lower wizard spell from Spell Pool. Kinda fuzzy on if Versatile Spellcaster would allow you to cast 4th level spells in E6.

Coidzor
2011-07-02, 01:40 AM
I've been thinking about having a bard, possibly bardbarianblade with an Azun-Gund/Nightcaller's Whistle in E6, since it's a low level item and is competitive with the necromancy that a cleric without deathbound and desecrate could provide (and exceeds it if one shares uses with one's party at all, I believe) and with the right minions and the Requiem feat that's quite a bit of fun that could be had. I think.

Would prefer if there were some way to make skellies with that sorta setup though.