[PF] Dragon Disciple

[Luckmann]

I'm looking at the Dragon Disciple of Pathfinder at the moment, considering a Half-Orc Paladin/Avenger/Dragon Disciple concept and..

The Dragon Disciple gets Dragon Bite at level 2; A bite attack whenever he uses his claws. But because the Dragon Disciple doesn't actually get the Bloodline Powers of the Draconic Bloodline of the Sorcerer (a feature the Dragon Disciple otherwise makes constant references to), he never actually gains Claws (unless he's already a Sorcerer).

Is it just me, or is the way the Dragon Disciple works in Pathfinder dumb? It's not really useful for Sorcerers, yet it seems to have been built around the idea that anyone taking it will be Sorcerers or at least some multiclass thereof.

This is dumb.

[Yora]

It's the same in 3.5e. You have to be a sorcerer to get into the class, but it's completely useless if you're a spellcaster.

[MeeposFire]

As much as I dislike a lot of PF's stuff the dragon disciple was made a lot better for casters than it was before. You do get bloodline powers with the DD. Either the DD stacks with your sorcerer level or you get the abilities with your DD levels counting as sorcerer levels found here.

Blood of Dragons

A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. He must choose a dragon type upon gaining his first level in this class and that type must be the same as his sorcerer type. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell's level.

EDIT: No you do not need to be a sorc to get in a bard works just fine just like before.

[Luckmann]

It's the same in 3.5e. You have to be a sorcerer to get into the class, but it's completely useless if you're a spellcaster.

No you don't. You just need to be capable of casting 1st-level arcane spells spontaneously, such as with the Bard or the Avenger (isn't Assassin spontaneous, too? My memory is fuzzy). This is the same in Pathfinder (although Assassins don't get spells at all).


As much as I dislike a lot of PF's stuff the dragon disciple was made a lot better for casters than it was before. You do get bloodline powers with the DD. Either the DD stacks with your sorcerer level or you get the abilities with your DD levels counting as sorcerer levels found here.

Blood of Dragons

A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. He must choose a dragon type upon gaining his first level in this class and that type must be the same as his sorcerer type. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell's level.

EDIT: No you do not need to be a sorc to get in a bard works just fine just like before.Dear lord, I must be blind. Sorry about that. :smallredface:

[MeeposFire]

No you don't. You just need to be capable of casting 1st-level arcane spells spontaneously, such as with the Bard or the Avenger (isn't Assassin spontaneous, too? My memory is fuzzy). This is the same in Pathfinder (although Assassins don't get spells at all).

Dear lord, I must be blind. Sorry about that. :smallredface:

Its cool especially if you are using the srd as my eyes glaze over at times when reading that.

[Gnaeus]

Is it just me, or is the way the Dragon Disciple works in Pathfinder dumb? It's not really useful for Sorcerers, yet it seems to have been built around the idea that anyone taking it will be Sorcerers or at least some multiclass thereof.

This is dumb.

It is actually kind of cool for sorcerers, just...not as good as taking more levels in sorcerer. Sorcerer 10/DD 10 would be quite playable in most games. Sorcerer 12/DD8 is even better.

[nyarlathotep]

It is actually kind of cool for sorcerers, just...not as good as taking more levels in sorcerer. Sorcerer 10/DD 10 would be quite playable in most games. Sorcerer 12/DD8 is even better.

A buff bard 10/DD 10 is even better.

[subject42]

A buff bard 10/DD 10 is even better.

Sorcerer 1/Barbarian 4/Dragon Disciple 10/Barbarian X is actually kind of hilarious, especially if you take Eldritch Heritage to get Abyssal as a second bloodline.

[Gnaeus]

A buff bard 10/DD 10 is even better.

I think I pretty strongly disagree. A 10th level PF bard (even with 17th level bardic casting) doesn't have anything that competes with 9th level spells.


Sorcerer 1/Barbarian 4/Dragon Disciple 10/Barbarian X is actually kind of hilarious, especially if you take Eldritch Heritage to get Abyssal as a second bloodline.

My personal preference would be Paladin or Antipaladin over Barbarian, But yours works also.

[subject42]

My personal preference would be Paladin or Antipaladin over Barbarian, But yours works also.

Is that for the benefit of CHA to saves?

[Gnaeus]

Is that for the benefit of CHA to saves?

Mostly. They also get some lay-on-hands (uses based on Cha), smites (Adding Cha to to-hit and AC), and the ability to use spell trigger/completion items of paladin spells. This is ESPECIALLY true if your PF game allows 3.5 content (Spell Compendium spells, or Devotion feats), but PF paladins are pretty solid even without. If you need a high Cha anyway, use it all you can.

[Luckmann]

Sorcerer 1/Barbarian 4/Dragon Disciple 10/Barbarian X is actually kind of hilarious, especially if you take Eldritch Heritage to get Abyssal as a second bloodline.

Wait, what? You can take extra bloodlines? That's.. wow, that sounds so broken. :smallbiggrin:
Edit: Checked. Wasn't half as broken as it sounded. :(

[Paul H]

Hi

In a way, there is one class/archetype combo that is very similar to DD, as a base class: Summoner (Synthesist).

You 'wear' your Eidolon, gaining its bonuses, including natural attacks, elemental damage, nat armour bonuses, breath weapon, etc. It's also a full spontaneous caster!

AFAIK, it's also the only arcane spont caster that doen't really gain much from DD, since the bonuses are all class abilities - I don't think they stack. (Though Synthesist 1/Paladin 4/DD xxxx might work).

Thanks
Paul H