Fixing the Elemental Savant (CArcane PrC)

[Winds]

The Elemental Savant has been discussed here before. The general agreement was that the class was overspecialized, and not worth using unless you were simply attached to that character concept. I happen to be, and I'm looking for input to fix the one major problem of the class:

Energy Specialization

...upon entering the class, must select an elemental specialization that matches the Energy Substitution feat that served as the prerequisite for the class. Any spell cast by the savant with an energy descriptor changes to this element, and deals that element's damage instead.

Paraphrased, main issue bolded. Without support of some kind, this makes the class a significant crutch to many parties, and is therefore often ignored. But this sentence goes against most of the point. Why have a PrC that people don't want to use mechanically?


Put more simply, what methods/houserules/extra abilities could be used to let the Savant deal the normal energy descriptor of the spell?

Logical considerations: It makes no sense to completely lose the ability to cast the spell normally. A Fighter, for example, doesn't forget how to use maces if he takes Weapon Focus: Longsword, so why would the Savant lose the ability to cast a spell's normal descriptor? Also, the fluff of the class indicates that the Savant studies all elements, only specializing in one. Why, then, do they lose the ability to cast spells as normal?

RAW fix:
*Use feats that change part of the spell to a different type. (Uttercold, Born of 3 Thunders, Searing Flames, etc.) Imperfect, only halfway addresses the problem. Also, doesn't make sense to need feats from other sourcebooks to fix a class in CArcane.

Possible Houesrule fixes:
*Apply the Energy Substitution feat backward, and make casting as the normal descriptor a +0 (Or +1, +2) metamagic effect.
*Decrease caster level on spells that use non-specialized descriptors.


Do these ideas work, in your opinion? What other solutions can you think of?

[Hyfigh]

The Mailman (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer?pg=1) seems like a good place to start theorycrafting...

[erikun]

I have a much larger problem with the prestige class: it is a spellcasting-based prestige class with 8/10 progression. Why would I want to take a classed focused on my spellcasting when it makes me worse at spellcasting?

[Winds]

Practiced Spellcaster. Gain +4 to caster level, capped at hit die-so take that, and 2 levels of something else, and still be a full caster.

Yes, it's still odd, but it doesn't concern me as much as a PrC that requires the caster to forget how to cast spells normally. :smallconfused:

[zmasterofjersey]

Practiced Spellcaster. Gain +4 to caster level, capped at hit die-so take that, and 2 levels of something else, and still be a full caster.

Yes, it's still odd, but it doesn't concern me as much as a PrC that requires the caster to forget how to cast spells normally. :smallconfused:

Yes it gives u 4 caster level, but it doesn't work like that.

A sample wizard 10-Ele savant 10 has level 18 wizard casting, the practiced spellcaster puts you at 22 cl or 20 since it cant pass your HD. You still only have the spells/day of a level 18 wizard not a 20th level wizard.

[erikun]

How about just allowing the Energy Substitution metamagic to change spells to any energy type, rather than just the one required for the prerequisites? After all, the feat becomes useless after the first level in Elemental Savant otherwise, and choosing to apply metamagic is different from getting the change for free.

Also, two lost caster levels isn't made up with Practiced Spellcaster. Wizard 5/Savant 10 casts 7th level spells, while Wizard 15 casts 8th.

[zmasterofjersey]

Energy Specialization

...upon entering the class, must select an elemental specialization that matches the Energy Substitution feat that served as the prerequisite for the class. Any spell cast by the savant with an energy descriptor changes to this element, and deals that element's damage instead.

Maybe just give people to option to do this instead of making it mandatory to switch energy descriptors?

[Winds]

Sounds like the suggestion so far would be to change the specialization to allow any element substitution. Sacrificing two levels of casting to convert the prereq feat into a class perk normally reserved for the Archmage (with much higher prereqs) sounds like a good trade-off, too.

Also, I need to reread Practiced Spellcaster.

EDIT: And I did indeed read it wrong. Okay, back to the drawing board on that one...

[Runestar]

A Fighter, for example, doesn't forget how to use maces if he takes Weapon Focus: Longsword, so why would the Savant lose the ability to cast a spell's normal descriptor?

Easiest answer would be, it's magic. Think of it as some sort of binding pact, where you are henceforth unable to use any spells but those of your chosen element at all. It is like asking why a wizard who cast tenser's transformation suddenly forgot how to cast spells. That's just the way the deal works.

[Analytica]

Easiest answer would be, it's magic. Think of it as some sort of binding pact, where you are henceforth unable to use any spells but those of your chosen element at all. It is like asking why a wizard who cast tenser's transformation suddenly forgot how to cast spells. That's just the way the deal works.

My interpretation: you burn out your faculties to draw on the other elemental planes to form a permanent and stronger connection to one of them. When a fire savant tries to draw power from the air plane, the part of them that could approach that plane has actually been replaced with an additional fire plane conduit, so they get fire instead.

However, for that trade to actually make sense, the class should make you stronger. I would make it lose only one caster level, and gain bonus spells like the Nightmare Spinner (i.e. additional specialist slots), which must have the proper elemental descriptor. It could also open up any spell with the descriptor for you, regardless of which class list it is from, such as druid-only elemental spells.

[AmberVael]

While I understand why people would want to take away the elemental restriction, it seems to me that it would go against the very idea of the class to do it. Sure it is much less problematic to still be able to use other elements, but it is way more in line with the idea to be tossing around say, fire or lightning all the time rather than anything else.

So I would want to work on the assumption that the class needs to be fixed while retaining its restrictions. Assuming you want to keep the PrC focused on a single element, the first thing I would do is drop the energy substitution feat from its requirements. I would then restrict them to that element, and automatically make all other energy spells become the energy they chose. So essentially, they are still restricted, and all spells become spells of their chosen element, but they don't have to spend a feat on it (which is a little more fair and far less stupid).

Second, I would give them a free (+0 metamagic) version of Searing Spell with their chosen element. They might always have to use that element, but that element will now always be useful at least a little bit.

From there, I would give the class some other boosts- maybe they can increase the normal damage cap on those elemental spells, or they get some caster level boosts, or other free optional changes to spells of their elements (like, fire could be explosive, electricity might have a minor version of chaining, ice might freeze or slow people a bit, acid could deal extra damage or make acidic puddles... you'd need careful balancing, but it could work).

Also? It would definitely be full caster progression.

I think a LOT of the hate for Elemental Savant (other than it being a horrible PrC) comes from it requiring a feat that it immediately makes utterly useless, and in a way that removes power as opposed to replacing it with something better. And really, that's a pretty good reason to hate it. That's a stupid idea. So removing that requirement would be a decent step.

[Runestar]

Or simply revert back to the 3.0 version, which was actually much stronger. :smallbiggrin: