...How would someone make a mute arcane spellcaster?

[SanusCompleo]

Without using Silent Spell Metamagic for every spell? Perhaps a whole lot of spell-like abilities? Make a lot of wands beforehand? What I'm looking for however, is more along the lines of a completely mute Wizard or Sorcerer who simply does not need verbal components. Any idea on how to do this? Psionics is a likely alternative... I suppose.

[Flickerdart]

There's a feat (Savage Species?) that lets you substitute another kind of sound for vocal components. Normally meant for races who cannot speak, nothing says you can't replace your incantations with sick guitar riffs or something similar.

[SanusCompleo]

That sounds very promising -- however I'm still looking for something that would require no sound at all, and would be passable in an average game... Magic Tattoos are another option, but doesn't fit with this current character idea.

[dextercorvia]

Without using Silent Spell Metamagic for every spell? Perhaps a whole lot of spell-like abilities? Make a lot of wands beforehand? What I'm looking for however, is more along the lines of a completely mute Wizard or Sorcerer who simply does not need verbal components. Any idea on how to do this? Psionics is a likely alternative... I suppose.

Wands won't work, as they require a command word. There is a race called Buomen (I think I spelled that right) who don't/can't speak. They have a specific feat to allow them to cast spells.

Other than that, you could just take silent spell and primarily rely on spells that don't have V components.

[Siosilvar]

I don't think invocations have verbal components. Will a Warlock or Dragonfire Adept do?

EDIT: Obvious ones like Word of Changing and Baleful Utterance aside, of course.

[SanusCompleo]

I dunno, I debated Warlock... I suppose I'll have a look. Till then, if anyone with an idea aside from Nonverbal Spell decides to post, please do.

[Gurgeh]

The Geometer prestige class from Complete Arcane would be a reasonable approach - it allows the casting of any spell with a spellglyph that replaces all verbal and material components. Only problem is you have to hit seventh level in order to qualify (9 ranks in decipher script and knowledge (arcana).

[Siosilvar]

The Geometer prestige class from Complete Arcane would be a reasonable approach - it allows the casting of any spell with a spellglyph that replaces all verbal and material components. Only problem is you have to hit seventh level in order to qualify (9 ranks in decipher script and knowledge (arcana).

And that spellglyphs cost 25gp per spell level.

[Drolyt]

Without using Silent Spell Metamagic for every spell? Perhaps a whole lot of spell-like abilities? Make a lot of wands beforehand? What I'm looking for however, is more along the lines of a completely mute Wizard or Sorcerer who simply does not need verbal components. Any idea on how to do this? Psionics is a likely alternative... I suppose.
I really can't think of any abilities that let you do this, but how about this. Since being mute is apparently part of your character concept, can you just talk to your DM and get him to let you ignore verbal components? Seems to me a fair tradeoff for not being able to talk, although maybe your DM could require a feat to go with it, and of course some spells that rely on sound would still be off limits, but it sounds fair to me. Of course you might not be able to do this, either because you are playing a setting that requires RAW or because your DM just isn't flexible that way, but I would try that first before digging through every supplement imaginable.

[Larpus]

There is a mute race in one book (don't remember which tho), some sort of outsider I think, which has a specific feat that anyone can take at level 1 that, if memory serves me right, makes you trade verbal for somatic components or something; there was some drawback tho, like not being able to still a spell or something.

[Gnome Alone]

There's a feat (Savage Species?) that lets you substitute another kind of sound for vocal components. Normally meant for races who cannot speak, nothing says you can't replace your incantations with sick guitar riffs or something similar.

Or clapping! Y'know, Clap On, Clap Off, The Cla-- Baleful Polymorph!!

[SanusCompleo]

She's alright with it... but I feel a bit like it's cheating.

[RndmNumGen]

She's alright with it... but I feel a bit like it's cheating.

Not really. Being mute is a rather large disadvantage, one which might be considered a Flaw - and Flaws usually grant bonus feats in exchange. You could have your bonus feats be Silent Spell and a custom feat that allows you to reduce the cost of Silent Spell to +0(Maybe with an X times/day limit?)

[Thrice Dead Cat]

There's a feat in one of the planar handbooks that allows a caster to use grunts, squeaks, and other noises for incantations instead of the usual components.

[Infernalbargain]

You could steal from the PF oracle.

[Darrin]

There is a mute race in one book (don't remember which tho), some sort of outsider I think, which has a specific feat that anyone can take at level 1 that, if memory serves me right, makes you trade verbal for somatic components or something; there was some drawback tho, like not being able to still a spell or something.

Do you mean the Tsochar and whispercast (Lords of Madness p. 129)? I can't quite bend my head around that one... it removes the need for any somatic or verbal components, but then it says you have to be able to whisper... how is that not verbal? But I suppose that's the Far Realms for you.

[Big Fau]

There's a PrC in the Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde that can give you free Silent Spell 24/7, but the requirements are late-level (4th level spells and about 11 Knowledge ranks).

[Jack_Simth]

Talk with your DM, then learn Drow Sign Language (specific language, in the Drow entry in the Monster Manual). Speak your verbal components with your other hand. Now all spells suffer Arcane Spell Failure, you always need both hands free to cast, and *none* of your spells can be used in a grapple (unless prepared with both Still and Silent spell).

[AmberVael]

Do you mean the Tsochar and whispercast (Lords of Madness p. 129)? I can't quite bend my head around that one... it removes the need for any somatic or verbal components, but then it says you have to be able to whisper... how is that not verbal? But I suppose that's the Far Realms for you.

Ah, it never says you whisper your spells, just that you have to be able to whisper to be able to cast them. :smalltongue:

This explanation (which is technically RAW, I think) is frankly even more nonsensical, but hey, that's the Far Realms for you.

[Cog]

Do you mean the Tsochar and whispercast (Lords of Madness p. 129)? I can't quite bend my head around that one... it removes the need for any somatic or verbal components, but then it says you have to be able to whisper... how is that not verbal? But I suppose that's the Far Realms for you.

To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.
It's more a modification than a removal, but it's still definitely a change.

As for Warlock, their invocations do require verbal components, and you can't even Silent them (or Still their somatic components).

[ffone]

Talk with your DM, then learn Drow Sign Language (specific language, in the Drow entry in the Monster Manual). Speak your verbal components with your other hand. Now all spells suffer Arcane Spell Failure, you always need both hands free to cast, and *none* of your spells can be used in a grapple (unless prepared with both Still and Silent spell).

This is a great suggestion. Very flavorful, makes nice use of in-world concepts (Drow Sign Language), and with an interesting mix of downsides and upsides: the dowsides listed, the upsides all those typical for Silent Spell (better stealth/ambush casting, cant' be Spellcraft-IDed if they can't see you, silence or deafness effects don't impede you).

[Hunter Killer]

I have to agree with RndmNumGen. Being a mute is such a huge flaw that any reasonable DM should just allow you to cast spells without Verbal components.

If you really feel that bad about it, put my vote down for you talking to your DM about a custom feat. There's nothing wrong with Homebrew...

Edit: I also like Jack Smith's idea, and I'd probably use that if I made a mute NPC. Still, I'd allow a mute PC in my campaign to just cast the darn spells.

[begooler]

It is also possible to research your own spells. You can create spells that don't have verbal components. Given that not having a verbal component is a boon for a spell, everything should be probably a spell level above what it would normally be, or a weaker version of the spell.
Maybe your DM can help you out by making this process cheaper or quicker, or assuming that all spells you know are ones you researched on your own.

[HunterOfJello]

You could give them a familiar that they have a telepathic link that can speak the verbal spell components for them. A Raven or Fiendish Familiar could work in this way.

You could also make the character have a powerful curse on them that no matter what they try to say, their words only come out in a language that no living person remembers or can understand. For this reason, the character is always mute except when casting spells.

A level 2 Shadowcraft Mage can cast all Illusion spells without a verbal component. However, the character would need to get to a pretty high level before they could do that.

[HappyBlanket]

It is also possible to research your own spells. You can create spells that don't have verbal components. Given that not having a verbal component is a boon for a spell, everything should be probably a spell level above what it would normally be, or a weaker version of the spell.
Maybe your DM can help you out by making this process cheaper or quicker, or assuming that all spells you know are ones you researched on your own.

But that's just a roundabout way of using Silent Metamagic... And a far more costly one, at that.

Were I the DM, I'd just let you take Mute as a Flaw to grant spells without verbal components.

[Cespenar]

Talk with your DM, then learn Drow Sign Language (specific language, in the Drow entry in the Monster Manual). Speak your verbal components with your other hand. Now all spells suffer Arcane Spell Failure, you always need both hands free to cast, and *none* of your spells can be used in a grapple (unless prepared with both Still and Silent spell).

Cool idea alert!

[SanusCompleo]

Well... we stuck with keeping Mute for the price of automatic silenced spells -- although I cannot use the Power Words, or anything that has a spell effect that is actually spoken. I'm playing a rogue 1/sorcerer 1 with some weird and old 3.0 feat (Updated with consent from DM, and balanced) to allow me to have spellcasting of Sorc 2... while keeping that very pretty rogue 1. So... Fun times ahead. Low rogue levels (One at 3, and one more at 6), Arcane Trickster... maybe... and I'll see how it goes.

[Knaight]

A refluffed Psion is probably your best bet.

[The Rabbler]

if dragon is available, there's a feat inside one of them called easy metamagic (or is it practical metamagic) that lets you pick any metamagic feat and reduce the spell level modifier by 1. IIRC, silent spell is a +1 modifier, so that would let you put silent spell on every one of your spells for free.

[Amnestic]

There is a race called Buomen (I think I spelled that right) who don't/can't speak. They have a specific feat to allow them to cast spells.


Buomman have a vow against speech, which is different to a vow against noise. Non-verbal spell, the feat in question, trades out the usual verbal components for what generally amounts to indecipherable gibberish noises. They're a poor choice for a mute caster.

[HappyBlanket]

Well... we stuck with keeping Mute for the price of automatic silenced spells -- although I cannot use the Power Words, or anything that has a spell effect that is actually spoken. I'm playing a rogue 1/sorcerer 1 with some weird and old 3.0 feat (Updated with consent from DM, and balanced) to allow me to have spellcasting of Sorc 2... while keeping that very pretty rogue 1. So... Fun times ahead. Low rogue levels (One at 3, and one more at 6), Arcane Trickster... maybe... and I'll see how it goes.

If, by chance, you didn't want to take Silent Metamagic because it would increase casting time, there's a Sorcerer variant that trades out Obtain Familiar for the ability to use Metamagic as a Wizard. If you're feeling attached to the Familiar, you can always take Obtain Familiar later, but the variant is something you can only get at your first level of Sorcerer.

[dextercorvia]

But that's just a roundabout way of using Silent Metamagic... And a far more costly one, at that.

Were I the DM, I'd just let you take Mute as a Flaw to grant spells without verbal components.

That is too strong, really. There is a reason that Silent is a +1 not a +0 metamagic. It is often more expensive than you like, but it is too good to be free. And, not talking is hardly a hinderance if you can cast your spells anyway.


if dragon is available, there's a feat inside one of them called easy metamagic (or is it practical metamagic) that lets you pick any metamagic feat and reduce the spell level modifier by 1. IIRC, silent spell is a +1 modifier, so that would let you put silent spell on every one of your spells for free.

Easy can't reduce it below +1.


Buomman have a vow against speech, which is different to a vow against noise. Non-verbal spell, the feat in question, trades out the usual verbal components for what generally amounts to indecipherable gibberish noises. They're a poor choice for a mute caster.

Unless said mute can vocalize, not verbalize.


If, by chance, you didn't want to take Silent Metamagic because it would increase casting time, there's a Sorcerer variant that trades out Obtain Familiar for the ability to use Metamagic as a Wizard. If you're feeling attached to the Familiar, you can always take Obtain Familiar later, but the variant is something you can only get at your first level of Sorcerer.

Limited times per day, but this is still good if you are relying on metamagic. The feat in CM is better.

@OP, I would consider stocking up on several metamagic rods.

[Jeff the Green]

There's a feat (Savage Species?) that lets you substitute another kind of sound for vocal components. Normally meant for races who cannot speak, nothing says you can't replace your incantations with sick guitar riffs or something similar.

It's in the Planar Handbook (pg. 40-41) and is called Nonverbal Spell. And now I want to make a pixie sorcerer that casts spells by playing the flute, a la Flute in the Elenium.

[Hunter Killer]

<snip>... And, not talking is hardly a hinderance if you can cast your spells anyway.

I'd grant that it's more of a roleplay flaw for a combat effect, but seriously, have you tried just communicating in points and grunts? It's hard.

If the DM restricts metagame banter enough, the benefits of getting all your spells Silenced are outweighed by the pain-in-the-ass communication issues.

[AmberVael]

That is too strong, really. There is a reason that Silent is a +1 not a +0 metamagic. It is often more expensive than you like, but it is too good to be free. And, not talking is hardly a hinderance if you can cast your spells anyway.

I disagree. Silent metamagic should be a +0 metamagic feat, if that.

Look at Psionics. Psionics are automatically silenced AND stilled (and without material components), and there's not any problem there. There are still ways to negate psionics, and all of those still apply to magic as well.

In my games, I would be perfectly fine with someone taking still or silence as a +0 metamagic, because it isn't going to break anything (just like having Eschew materials isn't going to break anything. It is frankly an unnecessary mechanic of only the most minor importance).

[Sir_Chivalry]

I disagree. Silent metamagic should be a +0 metamagic feat, if that.

Look at Psionics. Psionics are automatically silenced AND stilled (and without material components), and there's not any problem there. There are still ways to negate psionics, and all of those still apply to magic as well.

In my games, I would be perfectly fine with someone taking still or silence as a +0 metamagic, because it isn't going to break anything (just like having Eschew materials isn't going to break anything. It is frankly an unnecessary mechanic of only the most minor importance).

I once saw that someone combined the two feats, Still and Silent, into one feat, Subliminal Spell, and kept it as +1. I'd say that's what would make it worth +1, and even then I'm likely to agree with you that it's a poor +1. Worked wonders for an npc I made. (She was the main wizard of the court of a barbarian queen. She'd taken Primitive Caster as well, so when she needed to be she could be silent and unnoticed, and when she needed to break out the pain (she was also a nar demonbinder) she'd hoot and scream and wave her hands wildly and throw special herbs and totems on the ground, and blast off a CL 37 Holy Word)

[HappyBlanket]

That is too strong, really. There is a reason that Silent is a +1 not a +0 metamagic. It is often more expensive than you like, but it is too good to be free. And, not talking is hardly a hinderance if you can cast your spells anyway.

Mute
You are incapable of speech.

Effect
You cannot communicate verbally, and incur all the associated penalties with being incapable of speech. You automatically fail all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Intimidate Checks, unless you pass a DC15 Perform (Pictionary) on each attempt.

Special
Treat Silent Spell as a +0 metamagic.

...I feel the Perform check should be higher if you're attempting to Intimidate someone with a quick game of Pictionary.

[Gnome Alone]

...I feel the Perform check should be higher if you're attempting to Intimidate someone with a quick game of Pictionary.

I don't know, I think I'd be intimidated if some weird robed dude drew me a crude sketch of himself evisceratimg me with his great and terrible magic mojo.

[Hunter Killer]

Thanks, Gnome, you just made me pee my pants. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

You can also be a Shadowcaster. Bam, no verbal components.

[AmberVael]

...I feel the Perform check should be higher if you're attempting to Intimidate someone with a quick game of Pictionary.

I dunno, a throat slitting gesture is pretty simple... :smallamused:

[Psyren]

...I feel the Perform check should be higher if you're attempting to Intimidate someone with a quick game of Pictionary.

While you doodle, whip out your noodle. That'll intimidate anybody.

[Gnome Alone]

Thanks, Gnome, you just made me pee my pants. :smalltongue:

Oh, p'shaw. You give me too much credit. That was all you.

Wokka wokka.

[King Atticus]

Very nicely ask your DM to let you play a Spellweaver from MM3. It's all telepathic, plus they can cast multiple spells at once...it's not gonna happen, but you can ask. :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

Cool idea alert!

Edit: I also like Jack Smith's idea, and I'd probably use that if I made a mute NPC. Still, I'd allow a mute PC in my campaign to just cast the darn spells.

This is a great suggestion. Very flavorful, makes nice use of in-world concepts (Drow Sign Language), and with an interesting mix of downsides and upsides: the dowsides listed, the upsides all those typical for Silent Spell (better stealth/ambush casting, cant' be Spellcraft-IDed if they can't see you, silence or deafness effects don't impede you).
*blink*
Well, I'm wasn't expecting that much positive feedback. Thanks.

[Psyren]

*blink*
Well, I'm wasn't expecting that much positive feedback. Thanks.

Too bad your post is obsolete :smallwink:

[dextercorvia]

I disagree. Silent metamagic should be a +0 metamagic feat, if that.

Look at Psionics. Psionics are automatically silenced AND stilled (and without material components), and there's not any problem there. There are still ways to negate psionics, and all of those still apply to magic as well.

In my games, I would be perfectly fine with someone taking still or silence as a +0 metamagic, because it isn't going to break anything (just like having Eschew materials isn't going to break anything. It is frankly an unnecessary mechanic of only the most minor importance).

The difference is that psionics still make noise. A stealthy character would get nothing but benefit from this flaw. And, honestly, too many players wouldn't see mute as a flaw, but "OMG, I am totally scamming my DM for RP XP, and I don't have to say nuthin!"

[AmberVael]

The difference is that psionics still make noise. A stealthy character would get nothing but benefit from this flaw. And, honestly, too many players wouldn't see mute as a flaw, but "OMG, I am totally scamming my DM for RP XP, and I don't have to say nuthin!"

Beg your pardon, but what are you saying here?

The implication I'm getting from this is that you seem to think that Silent Spell literally makes all effects of a spell silent... which is not the case at all. Silent spell just removes verbal components, that's it.

If you're saying that powers still require noise to make, then that's not true either.

If you're saying that the displays of psionic powers somehow make up for auto still and silence... then you're just confusing me further, because psionic displays require no effort or concentration on the part of the psion, nor does it effect the spell if they are suppressed (and they can be negated by a psion with only the smallest bit of concentration optimization).

In short, I can't find any sound argument that makes sense with your words here. Can you elaborate?

[ubergeek63]

Without using Silent Spell Metamagic for every spell? Perhaps a whole lot of spell-like abilities? Make a lot of wands beforehand? What I'm looking for however, is more along the lines of a completely mute Wizard or Sorcerer who simply does not need verbal components. Any idea on how to do this? Psionics is a likely alternative... I suppose.

Reserve feats would help once you get there. I am actually working on a home brew cantrip caster that would help... while it still requires verbal the silent spell feat costs a lot less when it is used since instead of a spell level it would only take a cantrip level and you get acrane thesis for free every four levels.

even with out arcane thesis, it is only 1/4 a spell level. I have been bouncing around trying to get good balance.

Dan

[Psyren]

I still say Shadowcaster is the way to go though (especially with the designer's fix.) You'll be a perfectly viable - and very spooky - caster, without stepping on anyone's toes, and the class is balanced around none of its "spells" being verbal.

Not that I'm against psionics, but with Mysteries your DM won't need to learn another system. They're just a bunch of SLAs and Su's.

[ubergeek63]

I still say Shadowcaster is the way to go though (especially with the designer's fix.) You'll be a perfectly viable - and very spooky - caster, without stepping on anyone's toes, and the class is balanced around none of its "spells" being verbal.

Not that I'm against psionics, but with Mysteries your DM won't need to learn another system. They're just a bunch of SLAs and Su's.

In the case of my Cantrip Master, it is just cantrips and working more like wand charges instead of spell levels at (back to) 4 cantrips per spell level.

My hang up is on getting the arcane spells anywhere near the normal power with out over powering the cure minor wounds. I think I have figured it out now but have not corrected it on dandwiki yet.

[dextercorvia]

Beg your pardon, but what are you saying here?

The implication I'm getting from this is that you seem to think that Silent Spell literally makes all effects of a spell silent... which is not the case at all. Silent spell just removes verbal components, that's it.

If you're saying that powers still require noise to make, then that's not true either.

If you're saying that the displays of psionic powers somehow make up for auto still and silence... then you're just confusing me further, because psionic displays require no effort or concentration on the part of the psion, nor does it effect the spell if they are suppressed (and they can be negated by a psion with only the smallest bit of concentration optimization).

In short, I can't find any sound argument that makes sense with your words here. Can you elaborate?

I meant that display could be used to pinpoint a sneaky psionic character. I had somehow missed that they could be suppressed with a Concentration check.

I like the penalty to social skills that was suggested.

[Etrivar]

As for Warlock, their invocations do require verbal components, and you can't even Silent them (or Still their somatic components).

How do you figure? It explicitly sates that they only require somatic components in the description of invocations.

[Cog]

How do you figure?
By means of bad memory! You're entirely correct.

[SanusCompleo]

In practice... being a mute spellcaster is INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING. It's fantastic for sneaking around, however we play a -very heavy- RP game... I've been in combat once in the first two sessions. I can't say a word. Communicating is -veeerry- difficult, using a Thieves Sign language to speak with the occasional few folks who actually know it, getting lots of fun out of Mage Hand. Lots of fun. However... I can never warn anyone of anything... I make for a terrible scout or message relayer -- can't use any form of whispered communication so Message and Sending and similar are right out. Not only that... but I cannot use Bluff or Diplomacy. Not many people are literate to read my BLATANT WRITTEN LIES. Playing Charades to try to convey a message is really difficult as well.

As far as XP goes -- we level at the DM's convenience. Which makes spells with XP costs difficult to determine... though I've never gotten a chance to use a spell with an XP cost with this DM yet... Maybe this time?

[Jack_Simth]

Communicating is -veeerry- difficult, using a Thieves Sign language to speak with the occasional few folks who actually know it, getting lots of fun out of Mage Hand. Lots of fun. However... I can never warn anyone of anything... I make for a terrible scout or message relayer -- can't use any form of whispered communication so Message and Sending and similar are right out. Not only that... but I cannot use Bluff or Diplomacy. Not many people are literate to read my BLATANT WRITTEN LIES. Playing Charades to try to convey a message is really difficult as well.For communicating with your party:
Silent Image. 1st level spell. Make an illusion of a sign with the info you want to communicate on it. Most of the party should be literate, as it comes with almost every class. For those few that aren't, come up with a simple color and pattern code for Dancing Lights.

[SanusCompleo]

For communicating with your party:
Silent Image. 1st level spell. Make an illusion of a sign with the info you want to communicate on it. Most of the party should be literate, as it comes with almost every class. For those few that aren't, come up with a simple color and pattern code for Dancing Lights.

I will most definitely steal the Dancing Lights idea... I seem to remember some place about a Magic Chalkboard spell... but I haven't found it. It's probably core. :I

[Jack_Simth]

I will most definitely steal the Dancing Lights idea... I seem to remember some place about a Magic Chalkboard spell... but I haven't found it. It's probably core. :I
How do you steal something you are given freely? However, there's a fair number of spells that could be used fairly easily to communicate.

1) Silent Image: Here's your sign. Oh yes, and you can change the image provided you maintain concentration, so one casting = one conversation, pretty much. If your DM doesn't let you re-write details like on an image of a chalkboard, then the simple solution is a Silent image of a (very long) animated rope. It does cursive.

2) Permanent Image: As Silent Image, but you can use it again & again & again & again... in a given area. Cast it in a portable hole, and you're set.

3) Medalion of Thought Projection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#medallionofThoughtProjection): Normally a cursed item, if it's true nature is known, it is invaluable to someone who can't speak normally. Only 1,800 gp, too.

4) Flash cards! Make some signs of common stuff, and just flash them at your party when you need to. Just make sure to avoid the jokes about flashing....

[HappyBlanket]

Communicating without speech isn't that difficult, even without sign language. Just get a piece of paper and a piece of charcoal or something, and draw away. If you need to alert someone, there are plenty of ways to get attention: Tugging of sleeves, Reserve Feats, Pointing, Cantrips... A ten foot pole? -poke- -poke- ((That's Ten Foot Pole for "Look out, there's a bear behind you"))

[Kobold-Bard]

I will most definitely steal the Dancing Lights idea... I seem to remember some place about a Magic Chalkboard spell... but I haven't found it. It's probably core. :I

Team Evil did the Dancing Lights plan in OotS as I recall. Worked pretty well for them.

The Drow Sign Language idea is amazing, and will be stolen for future use.

[onthetown]

Parrot familiar? :smallbiggrin:

Or just specialize in spells that don't need verbal components.