Magic Weapons Are Boring

[Drolyt]

Exactly as the thread title suggests, magic weapons are really very boring in D&D. Sure they make you better at fighting, but for the most part they don't add anything to the game experience. Compare some mythological and fantasy weapons to see what I mean:

Excalibur (Matter of Britain): Precise abilities vary depending on the story, but one interesting power actually comes from the scabbard, which prevented any wounds received while wearing it from bleeding. The most consistent ability of the sword itself seems to be the ability to radiate blinding light when drawn, which is admittedly only kind of badass but still cool. A sword from Celtic legend that might be the same sword once cut the tops off of three hills, which is something swords in D&D simply don't do.

Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi (Grass Cutting Sword, Japanese Mythology): Also known by the much more badass name of Ama-no-Murakumo-no-Tsurugi (Sword of the Gathering Clouds of Heaven), has a wide variety of awesome powers. The most basic version allows control of the winds, which can vary from gusts to hurricanes to the ability to slash people at range with the wind, but some stories extend this to more powerful control of weather and/or storms. In some versions can control fire as well, since the Japanese associate wind with the fanning of flames. Also capable of cutting through magical barriers/force fields.

Gungir (Norse Mythology): Can never be stopped once thrown and pierces right through its target.

Mjölnir (Norse Mythology): Returns to you after you throw, could level mountains. The Might Thor gives it several additional powers, such as controlling magnetic fields and shooting energy blasts.

Tetsusaiga (Inuyasha Anime): Will not allow yokai (kind of like demons or fey) to touch it and protects humans who hold it with a barrier. The scabbard has protective powers. Reveals its true powers only to hanyo (half-yokai). It looks like a rusty katana at first, but transforms into a large falchion like weapon in the hands of a hanyo. It's most basic ability is to fire youki (demon energy, think mana or something) but has several more advanced abilities. The first is the wind scar, which involves cutting the point where two yokai auras meet to create a powerful blast capable of killing 100 yokai in a single blast. The second is the backlash wave, which captures an opponents youki in the wind scar and hurls it back at them. It gains more powerful abilities after being upgraded throughout the show, such as the ability to destroy barriers. Finally, the sword serves as a protective measure preventing the main characters extremely powerful yokai blood (his father was a daiyokai, or "great demon", much more powerful than normal yokai) from overpowering his human half and turning him into a monster. Other characters also have interesting weapons, such as Sesshomeru's Tenseiga, which doesn't cut living creatures but can revive the dead.

Zangetsu: (Bleach Anime): Huge sword that fires energy blasts. Not terribly interesting on its own, but the sword has a spirit that serves as a sort of mentor figure. Moreover it eventually upgrades into a sword that condenses the wielders spirit power to let them move extremely fast. Other characters in the show have much more interesting swords as well.


Comparatively speaking, a +5 Flaming Frost Shock Drow Bane Longsword is kind of boring. Even relatively more interesting weapons, like the Holy Avenger, Weapons of Legacy (which have some stupid mechanics regardless), or Legendary Weapons from Unearthed Arcana are still not that awesome.

Part of the problem is that awesome weapons would be unbalancing, but I'm looking for a way to incorporate cool weapons like these into D&D.

[Serpentine]

Sounds like you want Weapons of Legacy...
(n.b. a common complaint about these is the high on-going cost, both monetary and mechanical. I fix this by tending to sorta handwave the monetary cost to an extent, and generally swapping mechanical sacrifices for roleplaying ones)
Excalibur (Matter of Britain): Precise abilities vary depending on the story, but one interesting power actually comes from the scabbard, which prevented any wounds received while wearing it from bleeding. The most consistent ability of the sword itself seems to be the ability to radiate blinding light when drawn, which is admittedly only kind of badass but still cool. A sword from Celtic legend that might be the same sword once cut the tops off of three hills, which is something swords in D&D simply don't do.Scabbard of Wound Closure, as the Scarab except in Scabbard form. (yeah, that's not confusing at all <.<) Light or Continual Flame on the sword, possibly combined with Dazzle or similar - former as a constant effect, latter as an at-will or per-day ability perhaps. The cutting-tops-off-hills bit might not be literally applicable until Epic levels, but you could perhaps replicate something like it with some sort of earth shaping, earthquake or stone shaping ability, or Hell give it an illusion ability and say it didn't actually do it, it just looked like it.

Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi (Grass Cutting Sword, Japanese Mythology): Also known by the much more badass name of Ama-no-Murakumo-no-Tsurugi (Sword of the Gathering Clouds of Heaven), has a wide variety of awesome powers. The most basic version allows control of the winds, which can vary from gusts to hurricanes to the ability to slash people at range with the wind, but some stories extend this to more powerful control of weather and/or storms. In some versions can control fire as well, since the Japanese associate wind with the fanning of flames. Also capable of cutting through magical barriers/force fields.Control Weather, Control Winds, etc. Some ability that lets you make a melee attack as a ranged one (I'm sure there's something), pyrotechnics, that sorta thing.

Gungir (Norse Mythology): Can never be stopped once thrown and pierces right through its target.Returning enhancement. There's something that lets a weapon pierce multiple targets, I think. Not sure what it is, but it'd be easy enough to make - you could use the ricochet ability as a model, at least.

Mjölnir (Norse Mythology): Returns to you after you throw, could level mountains. The Might Thor gives it several additional powers, such as controlling magnetic fields and shooting energy blasts.Hammer of Returning. Soften Earth and Stone or similar. There's at least one item that gives control over metal objects, so that's doable. Any number of things could cover "energy blasts"...

Tetsusaiga (Inuyasha Anime): Will not allow yokai (kind of like demons or fey) to touch it and protects humans who hold it with a barrier. The scabbard has protective powers. Reveals its true powers only to hanyo (half-yokai). It looks like a rusty katana at first, but transforms into a large falchion like weapon in the hands of a hanyo. It's most basic ability is to fire youki (demon energy, think mana or something) but has several more advanced abilities. The first is the wind scar, which involves cutting the point where two yokai auras meet to create a powerful blast capable of killing 100 yokai in a single blast. The second is the backlash wave, which captures an opponents youki in the wind scar and hurls it back at them. It gains more powerful abilities after being upgraded throughout the show, such as the ability to destroy barriers. Finally, the sword serves as a protective measure preventing the main characters extremely powerful yokai blood (his father was a daiyokai, or "great demon", much more powerful than normal yokai) from overpowering his human half and turning him into a monster. Other characters also have interesting weapons, such as Sesshomeru's Tenseiga, which doesn't cut living creatures but can revive the dead.Hooookay, lets see now... The first bit's easy, I'm sure there's other things that won't let certain creatures touch it and I know there's things that have issues with certain alignments. Gives an AC bonus or summons a magic shield or whatever - lots of ways to cover that bit. Various illusory qualities to hide its true nature (lots of cursed items already have that). Dunno what youki is, but there's plenty of fire spells to choose from. Again, dunno what a yokai is, so I'll have to refrain from commenting on those. I expect that might require some homebrewing of rules for that concept before it can be modelled in items. Lots of possibilities for "destrying barriers", magical and mundane. Perhaps a bonus to Will for the no-demon-turning bit.
That other item... A weapon that only harms Undead or whatever, has a Raise Dead ability.

Zangetsu: (Bleach Anime): Huge sword that fires energy blasts. Not terribly interesting on its own, but the sword has a spirit that serves as a sort of mentor figure. Moreover it eventually upgrades into a sword that condenses the wielders spirit power to let them move extremely fast. Other characters in the show have much more interesting swords as well.An Intelligent sword with that grants a movement bonus.

Easy-peasy! I could easily make any of these items with Weapons of Legacy.
I should point out that the reason all those weapons are so cool isn't because they have rockin' abilities - which, as I've demonstrated, are all replicable in D&D, but because of the way they're [I]used and the way they're described. That is what makes the difference.
So, for example, your "+5 Flaming Frost Shock Drow Bane Longsword": Elemental Vengeance*, the incredibly powerful longsword wielded by one of the Paladins of Corellon who originally drove the drow underground, crackles with blue flame. Its hilt and sword are forged from the one piece of blue-silver steel. When it hits, it bursts with a fire that is searing hot and icy cold and shocks to the bone all in one blow. It is said that with this sword, Athael single-handedly held the entrance to the Underdark against the retaliating drow until his allies were finally forced to bring the cave down on all of them. Some say he died under the avalanche, his sword lost among the rubble, melting a tomb of stone for itself. Others say he was slain by the drow, and Elemental Vengeance taken as a trophy. Some few others still insist that he survived the fall, and fought his way through the drow deeper into the underground maze. He lives there still, they claim, lurking in the shadows and waiting for any sign the drow might try to make a break for the surface, and cutting it down before it starts.

*I know that's a stupid name, couldn't think of anything better and my housemates are being useless.

(not so much the "homebrewing" bit, but anyways...)
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/2/23/672df926-c5d4-4ae7-ac47-3e2cf427157a.jpg:wink:

[The Rabbler]

The problem with this kind of thing is that for it to actually be interesting in the way that you're explaining, it needs to be created through the DM. Any rules in creating such an item would in turn make that item just another magic item, as any rules to the creation of an item inherently makes that item re-creatable.

The only thing limiting you from creating such an item yourself is your own imagination. Work with your DM and work out something that wouldn't be too overpowered.

[Cerlis]

basically normal magic weapons are like your run of the mill powerful weapons. Since it would seem you watch inuyasha i'll use that as a base

In many japanese shows and tale a finely crafted sword usually has some sort of spirit within it. I dont mean kami spirit (though technically i guess it would) but i mean more like fighting spirit. a Finely crafted sword has the dedication and ki of the swordmaker to help make it perfect. that is why you hear tales of people getting weapons from certain bladesmiths. The sword is superior to a regular sword. it cuts demons better(Magic and +1 or more enhancement), its sharper (+1 to dmg) its lighter and easier to use (+1 attack roll) and its harder to break (magic items have increased hit points i believe).

Now give that smith something special. like the fang of a Demon lord and using his superior smithing ability on such a magical artifact turns it into a magic weapon.

So the difference is your standard is higher. DnD magic weapons are anything that has an ounce of magic or spirit energy invested in them. What you are thinking of are , yes, Weapons of legacy, or for the more powerful ones, artifacts. (i cant name names, but i remember seeing powerful non artifact weapons that allow you to cast spells and perform special affects).

If you are interested in putting a bigger emphasis on magic weapons i'd look at the WEapon of Legacy system, where you use quests to grow into your weapon and you unlock its potential, just like Inuyasha did.

[Hunter Killer]

The problem with this kind of thing is that for it to actually be interesting in the way that you're explaining, it needs to be created through the DM. Any rules in creating such an item would in turn make that item just another magic item, as any rules to the creation of an item inherently makes that item re-creatable.

While it is true that creation rules would mean it would be reproduce-able, I'm not sure how that is a bad thing. Making unique and powerful items is hard, and expensive, so it's not like 20 copies of Magic Sword X are suddenly going to appear.

And it's not necessarily true that you need the DM to create an interesting weapon like these. You could use the Weapons of Legacy rules for creating a Legacy, the Item Familiar feat, or both. Neither of those requires anything from the DM other than that he allow them.

Ultimately, though, I have to go with the crowd that says it's up to the DM to make items interesting. If your magical gear is boring... It's the DM's fault.

[Prime32]

The cutting-tops-off-hills bit might not be literally applicable until Epic levels, but you could perhaps replicate something like it with some sort of earth shaping, earthquake or stone shaping ability, or Hell give it an illusion ability and say it didn't actually do it, it just looked like it.Pfeh. The thing was described as a superweapon, to the point Cú Chullain didn't want to fight it. :smalltongue:

Speaking of which, he had an awesome spear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gáe Bulg).


One rule I like to use is that you can use your BAB to determine the caster level and save DCs for effects created by magic weapons. So a high-level fighter could fire multiple blasts from a flame tongue, for instance, and his slaying weapons would have a DC of (10 + half BAB + Cha mod) if higher than the normal DC.

[Amphetryon]

basically normal magic weapons are like your run of the mill powerful weapons. Since it would seem you watch inuyasha i'll use that as a base

In many japanese shows and tale a finely crafted sword usually has some sort of spirit within it. I dont mean kami spirit (though technically i guess it would) but i mean more like fighting spirit. a Finely crafted sword has the dedication and ki of the swordmaker to help make it perfect. that is why you hear tales of people getting weapons from certain bladesmiths. The sword is superior to a regular sword. it cuts demons better(Magic and +1 or more enhancement), its sharper (+1 to dmg) its lighter and easier to use (+1 attack roll) and its harder to break (magic items have increased hit points i believe).

Now give that smith something special. like the fang of a Demon lord and using his superior smithing ability on such a magical artifact turns it into a magic weapon.

<snip>
Magic of Eberron has the High Elemental Binder, who does something very similar to this.

[Serpentine]

Ultimately, though, I have to go with the crowd that says it's up to the DM to make items interesting. If your magical gear is boring... It's the DM's fault.I don't think that's entirely fair. For starters, if the player makes their own custom item, then it's up to them to decide what it's like and what they do with it. If it's put in by the DM, then certainly it's very good if the DM can give a good description of it, but after that I'd say it's up to the player whether they want to continue bringing up that description, and/or do cool, flavourful things with it. There's also the possibility of investigating a magic item and looking into its history, an endeavor that rests on the shoulders of both player and DM - the former to actually take an interest, ask questions and look into it, and the latter to make sure there's something there to look into.

edit:
One rule I like to use is that you can use your BAB to determine the caster level and save DCs for effects created by magic weapons. So a high-level fighter could fire multiple blasts from a flame tongue, for instance, and his slaying weapons would have a DC of (10 + half BAB + Cha mod) if higher than the normal DC.That's not a bad idea, actually.

[Drolyt]

The problem with this kind of thing is that for it to actually be interesting in the way that you're explaining, it needs to be created through the DM. Any rules in creating such an item would in turn make that item just another magic item, as any rules to the creation of an item inherently makes that item re-creatable.
I don't know, if the rules were flexible enough, perhaps just a framework or skeleton for building items, I think it would still be better than how it is now. The other problem is of course WBL, which is why the UA Legendary Weapons and the Weapons of Legacy book exist, to let items level up with their user. Except neither works very well, Legendary Weapons require ten levels in a prestige class in exchange for not very good abilities, while Weapons of Legacy require suspension of disbelief halting gp draining rituals and penalties that often make the weapon not worth it (the rules for designing Weapons of Legacy aren't half-bad though).

Look at it this way. I came up with a half-dragon character who inherited a sword made from his father's fang in order to protect him in a world where he is rejected by both humans and dragons. The powers I conceived for it were mostly activated rather than passive, and would probably cost a lot. Ideally I'd like to be able to pay for it with feats or class levels, but there aren't really good rules for that. Sure I could work something out with my DM, but I wish there were better rules for it.

Edit: Ninjas. My fault for taking so long to post. I don't really like the Weapons of Legacy rules. There are some good things about them but the way it works is very weird.

[Gardener]

The problem with this kind of thing is that for it to actually be interesting in the way that you're explaining, it needs to be created through the DM. Any rules in creating such an item would in turn make that item just another magic item, as any rules to the creation of an item inherently makes that item re-creatable.

The only thing limiting you from creating such an item yourself is your own imagination. Work with your DM and work out something that wouldn't be too overpowered.
Or look at Weapons of Legacy. The pre-made items are uniformly awful, but the rules for founding your own legacy or building custom legacy items are both very good and pretty balanced systems for making a really-freaking-awesome magic item.

I mean, it's mostly a tool for working in concert with your DM to make the thing you want, but it's a handy tool that already exists, so you shouldn't just ignore it, right?

[Serpentine]

...while Weapons of Legacy require suspension of disbelief halting gp draining rituals and penalties that often make the weapon not worth it (the rules for designing Weapons of Legacy aren't half-bad though).That's why I have those houserules I mentioned, where I often reduce the monetary costs or similar (e.g. all characters start with a Weapon of Legacy for free or for the cost of the basic item), and change the mechanical costs to roleplaying ones (e.g. "must always defend your home", "any time the opportunity arises, must assist drow trying to leave behind their evil ways and emerge into the light"). Granted, those are houserules, not RAW, but that doesn't change the fact that all the abilities you're after for your fancy weapons are available in D&D.

Look at it this way. I came up with a half-dragon character who inherited a sword made from his father's fang in order to protect him in a world where he is rejected by both humans and dragons. The powers I conceived for it were mostly activated rather than passive, and would probably cost a lot. Ideally I'd like to be able to pay for it with feats or class levels, but there aren't really good rules for that. Sure I could work something out with my DM, but I wish there were better rules for it.You can do exactly that in D&D. The fact the system isn't designed to do it exactly the way you want it to do so doesn't change the fact that it can be done.
If you want to do it with feats... well, technically, that's exactly what Weapons of Legacy does :smallconfused: Each ritual grants you a feat that lets you access the next lot of item abilities...

[The Rabbler]

Lots of weapons of legacy proponents I see.

I always found the weapons of legacy lacking in the ability to create both useful and interesting items because all of the restrictions and sacrifices that needed to be made. I'd much rather have something like an extremely weak artifact than a more powerful weapon of legacy. Maybe I was reading the Op's post differently than others were, but I don't think of 1/day fireball or wind wall at will to be an interesting weapon. I think of a weapon as interesting if there is a truly unique ability associated with it; like that one shield artifact that provides casting as a 20th level paladin.

[Hunter Killer]

I guess you're right about player created items, Serpentine. I'll agree that if it is the player's goal to have something unique and interesting, then they should probably take an active role in making it so.

More often than not, however, the DM is giving them items by handing out treasure. I think it falls entirely on him to make the things he gives away flavorful and interesting; If he treats magic swords as boring everyday commodities, then that's what they become.

Personally, I place some pretty hefty limits on what magic items appear in my own games and give them out very rarely. Every single one is special, even the +1 swords, because I try to describe them in interesting ways, give them at least a bare-bones history, and make them unique by mundane means (unique designs, forge marks, smith's initials, etc)... It's lots of work but, like I said, the players don't get 'em often.

[Drolyt]

That's why I have those houserules I mentioned, where I often reduce the monetary costs or similar (e.g. all characters start with a Weapon of Legacy for free or for the cost of the basic item), and change the mechanical costs to roleplaying ones (e.g. "must always defend your home", "any time the opportunity arises, must assist drow trying to leave behind their evil ways and emerge into the light"). Granted, those are houserules, not RAW, but that doesn't change the fact that all the abilities you're after for your fancy weapons are available in D&D.
You can do exactly that in D&D. The fact the system isn't designed to do it exactly the way you want it to do so doesn't change the fact that it can be done.
If you want to do it with feats... well, technically, that's exactly what Weapons of Legacy does :smallconfused: Each ritual grants you a feat that lets you access the next lot of item abilities...
Okay, fair enough. Weapons of Legacy mostly does what I want, and I do like some of what they did in that book, but I thought the execution was pretty poor. Regardless, I'm pretty tired at the moment, and I'm thinking that I might come across like I'm complaining that the rules don't do exactly what I want. That's not it, I'm just looking for ways to accomplish the kind of thing I'm thinking of. Maybe I'll write up a homebrew to try to crystallize what I'm getting at.

[Hunter Killer]

<snip>...Except neither works very well, Legendary Weapons require ten levels in a prestige class in exchange for not very good abilities, while Weapons of Legacy require suspension of disbelief halting gp draining rituals and penalties that often make the weapon not worth it...<snip>

There's always the the third option, Drolyt: Item Familiar. It doesn't have nearly the same baggage as the other two. It's not going to create a +5 Sword of Holy Flaming Jesus-this-is-br0ken, but it still makes some good stuff.

[Serpentine]

I always found the weapons of legacy lacking in the ability to create both useful and interesting items because all of the restrictions and sacrifices that needed to be made.Already covered my solution to the sacrifices. The restrictions... Aside from the actual system itself, doesn't the book say that list isn't comprehensive? I've actually been thinking of trying to write up a generic WoL ability list based on it to make it easier to make custom items - e.g. "Level A, spell of X level usable Y times per day", etc.

Maybe I was reading the Op's post differently than others were, but I don't think of 1/day fireball or wind wall at will to be an interesting weapon.That's what fluff is for. The mechanics is there to allow an action to be represented in game terms. Everything else is fluff. If you wanted to, you could say the 1/day fireball is a Dragonball Z style charge-up-and-superblast ability, or that the wind wall requires you to spin around really fast to physically raise a barrier of air. The possibilities are limited only by your imagination.
What is it, exactly, that you want to be able to do, and is it actually possible to do it within the boundaries and needs of a playable game? Because everything that the OP described in the... well, the OP, I can easily create - maybe even with nothing but Core - and everything else is just fluff.

I think of a weapon as interesting if there is a truly unique ability associated with it; like that one shield artifact that provides casting as a 20th level paladin.I believe several premade WoL do have unique abilities, and I don't think it'd be a big deal to design your own and insert it at the appropriate level. Pretty sure I've done exactly that, in fact...

All these supposed limitations of D&D seem more like limitations of the player (and/or the restrictions of their DMs) to me *shrug*

[Drolyt]

Lots of weapons of legacy proponents I see.

I always found the weapons of legacy lacking in the ability to create both useful and interesting items because all of the restrictions and sacrifices that needed to be made. I'd much rather have something like an extremely weak artifact than a more powerful weapon of legacy. Maybe I was reading the Op's post differently than others were, but I don't think of 1/day fireball or wind wall at will to be an interesting weapon. I think of a weapon as interesting if there is a truly unique ability associated with it; like that one shield artifact that provides casting as a 20th level paladin.
Yes, that is more what I was getting at. I don't think weapons of legacy was very well executed, the benefits from the items don't match the cost of the penalties you take. It's not a horrible book though, and some of the ideas are very good. What I'm looking for are mechanics that 1. Let you have reasonably unique and interesting weapons. Even if it is just guidelines ("roughly this power level") I would prefer that to picking and choosing bland abilities like +1d6 fire damage. 2. Let you wield such unique and powerful weapons without chucking out gold pieces. I hate magic marts. If I have to spend feats or class levels so be it, but I wish the game would better support concepts like inherited weapons and weapons that grow with you (note that Weapons of Legacy still requires gold piece expenditure despite how little sense that makes). I agree with Hunter Killer above as well, magic items should be more fantastical rather than being junk lying around.

[Serpentine]

Give me an item you want to use, and I'll make it. Whether I get to use my WoL houserules is up to you - it'll be better with, but I can still do it without.
edit: I should say I'm terrible at working out how much an item is worth, though, but I'm sure someone'll be able to work it out.

[Drolyt]

There's always the the third option, Drolyt: Item Familiar. It doesn't have nearly the same baggage as the other two. It's not going to create a +5 Sword of Holy Flaming Jesus-this-is-br0ken, but it still makes some good stuff.
I do like item familiars, but they don't do everything I want.

Give me an item you want to use, and I'll make it. Whether I get to use my WoL houserules is up to you - it'll be better with, but I can still do it without.
edit: I should say I'm terrible at working out how much an item is worth, though, but I'm sure someone'll be able to work it out.
I'm curious to see what you'll come up with. How about Tessaiga (http://inuyasha.wikia.com/wiki/Tessaiga)? Edit: Go ahead and use your houserules if you want.

[Serpentine]

I'll request something other than that, actually - not because I don't think it's possible, but because it requires an understanding of a concept I'm unfamiliar with, and I suspect it would require other homebrewing to incorporate this concept into D&D.
If I decide to use Weapons of Legacy, can I use my houserules or do I have to use RAW? Sneaky edit :smalltongue:

edit: Yeah, reading over it I can definitely see how I could do a lot of it, but I'm unfamiliar with too much of the terminology and the anime itself to feel confident that I'd be able to get close enough to what you're after.

[Jeff the Green]

Pfeh. The thing was described as a superweapon, to the point Cú Chullain didn't want to fight it. :smalltongue:

Speaking of which, he had an awesome spear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gáe Bulg).

In fact, Gáe Bulg was probably the same weapon as Excalibur. The etymology links the spear to another Irish hero's sword called Caladbolg, and Arthur's sword was originally the Welsh Caledfwlch before being mangled by the French into Excalibur. It's actually a bit weird because Cú Chullain's British equivalent is not Arthur, but Sir Gawain (who beheaded and was "beheaded" by my avatar, the Green Knight).

Also, don't forget Durendal, the sword of Roland. It had relics from four saints in the handle and when Roland tried to destroy it by swinging it against a mountain he failed, instead creating La Brèche de Roland, a pass in the Pyrenees.


Okay, fair enough. Weapons of Legacy mostly does what I want, and I do like some of what they did in that book, but I thought the execution was pretty poor. Regardless, I'm pretty tired at the moment, and I'm thinking that I might come across like I'm complaining that the rules don't do exactly what I want. That's not it, I'm just looking for ways to accomplish the kind of thing I'm thinking of. Maybe I'll write up a homebrew to try to crystallize what I'm getting at.

I don't think homebrew is strictly necessary for this, though. Like you say, the execution of WoL was... underwhelming, but there are rules for making your own which are IMO fairly balanced (though like Serpentine I'd prefer roleplaying requirements rather than penalties to saves, spells, or skills).

I also think that just a bit of roleplaying can help here. If you call your sword "+1 orc-bane longsword," it's far less magical-feeling than if you call it Orcrist, make references to its history now and then, and have orcs recognize it and run away from its wielder.

[Drolyt]

I'll request something other than that, actually - not because I don't think it's possible, but because it requires an understanding of a concept I'm unfamiliar with, and I suspect it would require other homebrewing to incorporate this concept into D&D.
If I decide to use Weapons of Legacy, can I use my houserules or do I have to use RAW? Sneaky edit :smalltongue:
Okay, but I'm a bit tired and having trouble coming up with ideas. How about a sword forged from the fang of a great wyrm gold dragon that grants its wielder the dragon's power? Despite being forged from a gold dragon, it is actually a vicious weapon and the dragon's soul is trapped in it. Abilities could include a breath weapon, flight, spell-like abilities, swimming, etc. I'll leave the exact powers up to you.

[Serpentine]

Hmmm... Oh yes. I've already got the roleplaying requirement.
Do you have any preference on whether the dragon's been twisted to Evil? I think my not-Evil idea's better, but the Evil option could be pretty cool too.
Won't get it done tonight, but I'll ponder upon it and do it tomorrow.

edit: Suggestions for names would be appreciated. I suck at that.

[Drolyt]

Hmmm... Oh yes. I've already got the roleplaying requirement.
Do you have any preference on whether the dragon's been twisted to Evil? I think my not-Evil idea's better, but the Evil option could be pretty cool too.
Up to you.

[RndmNumGen]

My DM once made excellent use of Intelligent Items to make an absolutely horrible(in the most wonderful way possible) evil Sickle. To this point we still don't know all of it's powers, but we do know the thing is a bastard. Our rogue found it in a ruined temple of Nerull, where it bonded itself to him against his will. Up until the point where he died in hellfire, he would always draw the sickle whenever entering combat(even if he meant to draw a different weapon), the sickle would deal tons of damage to particular enemies(we don't know exactly what triggered this effect, as when I tried to Identify it it burned my eyes and blinded me for a day), and when he was slain once, the sickle brought him back to life in some sort of abhorrent blood ritual that drained some of his CON.

Is that sickle listed in the DMG? No. Is there anything preventing DMs from making their own interesting weapons like the above? Nope. I'm with Serpentine here - if magic weapons are boring, it's because of the DM(or the players) treating them as mundane items when they can be so much more.

[Hunter Killer]

Suggestions for names would be appreciated. I suck at that.

Drakesoul, Goldrazor, Wymspirit, Brilliant Dawn, Gilt Twighlight. That's all I have right now off the top of my head.

[Drolyt]

Drakesoul
I like this one.

[Urpriest]

The example D&D weapon the OP lists is boring, but that's mostly because it's unoptimized. Good weapon enchantment choices tend to be more interesting, and more characteristic of the sort of weapons common in myth and legend. A weapon that emits blinding smoke on command? One that can freeze your enemies in place? One that resonates with a bard's song? Or how about a weapon that warns you of danger? Or a bow whose every arrow splits into two separate arrows? A weapon that can make any wielder no matter how unskilled a decent combatant?

All of those are weapons or weapon enchantments that I see bandied about in discussions of optimization, and they all feel like the mythological weapons you're discussing. They're interesting and fun.

[Hunter Killer]

<snip>... To this point we still don't know all of it's powers, but we do know the thing is a bastard... <snip>

Most excellent. I love that reaction out of my own players when I create intelligent, cursed items. It's just that look of pure... I dunno, but their faces have that "You're a ****!" expression. Hehe. :smallbiggrin:

[marcielle]

Zangetsu
Energy blast was a bit difficult at first but its basically just a powerful ranged attack. Refluffed psionic energy bolt as a full round action with no elemental effects should be right. Maybe give it 15ft wide line of effect.

As a standard action, enter Tensa Zangetsu mode for x mins a day depending on level.
Tensa Zangetsu - Bull's Strength and Haste . May be used more at expense of CON damage(I'm not very good at balancing so no numbers). Energy bolts maximized automatically.

Hollowfication as a full round action
Double bonuses but burns through Tensa Zangetsu at 4 times the rate.

Only thing standing in the way is WBL and that can generally be waved away by story. For extra awesome use intelligent weapon ego rules. If he doesn't make a will save everytime he hollowfies, Zangetsu takes over for a bit.

[John Campbell]

Kaldjarnr: Forged by the hand of the dwarf Ageirr Jarnhamarr for his own use, this weapon is a single-bitted bearded langaxe about four and a half feet long. The haft is carved from a single solid length of dragonbone, the femur of the white dragon Iysarljkessom, and inlaid with runes in silver. The head is cold iron, masterfully balanced, and polished to glisten like black ice. Its edge is razor sharp but never needs the touch of a stone. The blade is normally dark, mottled with the striations of its forging, but whenever the temperature around it drops below freezing, whether naturally or from the intense cold the weapon itself can cause, it glows from within with a magical light the hue of sunlight filtered through snow.

With Kaldjarnr in hand, even the most extreme cold feels only comfortably cool. On command, Kaldjarnr's blade becomes searing cold, which wakens its internal glow, if environmental conditions haven't already. Another command causes Kaldjarnr to wreathe itself and its wielder in frigid blue flames that do not harm its wielder, but which will burn anyone else nearby with their biting cold. The intensity of the cold flame is such that the heat of regular fire is tempered by it, reducing the harm done to Kaldjarnr's wielder.


It's all in the description.

Kaldjarnr was my runesmith's primary weapon, which he crafted himself over the course of a 2-17 campaign. It's a +5 keen icy burst frost surge dwarvencraft cold iron greataxe that provides cold resistance 30 when wielded, and fire shield (chill version) at will. There's nothing there that can't be done with standard 3.5 crafting rules, though a couple of those properties aren't usual for weapons (frost brand provides precedent for the energy resistance, at least). But there are people who played in that game who don't remember what their own characters used, but remember Kaldjarnr - by name - and what it did.

Just giving it a name, and using the name, really helps.

[Kyberwulf]

I think its part of the players Responsiblity

I once hand out out a +3 Flaming burst Greatsword to a player of mine
I didn't give it much thought.
But when he got it, he said "Finally my long-lost Ancestial Blade, Fandango!"
then he looked at me and asked if it could be flaming, cause he wanted it to be on fire while he used it. I had to explain that Flaming Burst did the same thing, he responded with "oh, cool."

He also would refer to it by name when he unscheathed it.

Its also become one of his characters driving forces whenever we start a new campaigne... lol.... He adds a numerial to his name (he is currently on his XIII incarnation) and his character Searches for the sword.

[opticalshadow]

just for the record, its already been shown you can easily create all of the examples you made, and i see your on your way to understanding how its done.


but lets just set the stage here, none of those items have problems because of the constraints of their stories, but do you know how gamebreaking a sword that can cut mountians in half, or an hammer that could theorectically peirce though the planet could be?

and honestly, if you really want, you can just dm up whatever you want, ignore the rules and implement ideas. ive had bbeg's use custom spells or powers and items that have no place within the rule structure of the game, but they made the fight and loot unique and memerable without unbalenceing anything

[Cieyrin]

It should be noted that Mjolnir does have a d20 equivalent right in Core: The Hammer of Thunderbolts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#hammerofThunderbolts)

As for Weapons of Legacy premades sucking, there are quite a few I find really interesting and useful, if not for the costs associated with it. The Sling of the Dire Wind, Shishi-O, Bully Basher (I think that's what the name was...), etc all have nice story and interesting effects that go with them and, as has been elucidated on time and again already, it's the fluff that makes magic weapons or any other item interesting, not just the crunch that goes with it. A drab Holy Avenger next to a +1 Greatclub named Foerender, which has a bloody history among the Orcs of the Forgotten Hills for maiming enemies and expecting a like blood sacrifice for services rendered, makes all the difference in making weapons memorable. You just have to work at it and you can make weapons or any item something that your gaming group will still be talking about years later. :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

My DMPC has Quickspur's Ally... and no horse :B

I'll get started on the dragon's tooth shortly, but in the meanwhilst here's one I prepared earlier for a player (who's also my bf, oh noes!):
Golden Vanguard of Inti
Golden Vanguard of Inti is a heavy shield made of polished ebony with a shining, benignly smiling sun – the symbol of the god Inti – made of gold on the front, with sharp spikes pointing out from the rays.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/IntiShield.gif

Nonlegacy Game Statistics: +1 Spiked heavy wooden shield; Cost 1,025gp; Weight 12lb.
Omen: Golden Vanguard of Inti always feels very warm to the touch, as though left in the sun. It is a tower shield, but can be wielded as though it is a heavy shield.

History
When the god Inti visits the material plane, he seeks out the Vanguard as his own personal shield.

Legacy Rituals
Two rituals are required to unlock all the abilities of Golden Vanguard of Inti.
Inti Raymi: Organise a festival in Inti’s honour. For three days you must fast, refrain from sexual intercourse, and have no fire lit in your presence. Then you must arrange feasting for the next nine days, all animals slaughtered for meat first consecrated to Inti and sacrificed in his honour. Cost: 1,500gp. Feat Granted: Least Legacy (Golden Vanguard of Inti).
Light a Dark Place: You must assist an oppressed or endangered community by both freeing it from its threat and teach the people or establish something that will assist them in protecting themselves in the future. Cost: 11,500gp. Feat Granted: Lesser Legacy (Golden Vanguard of Inti).

Personal Cost
The wielder must spend at least one hour in direct natural sunlight every day. Once a week, he must meditate in direct natural sunlight for one hour plus one for every 5 levels. These hours do not have to be consecutive (e.g. you do not have to start over if it gets cloudy half-way through).

Wielder Requirements
Golden Vanguard of Inti can be wielded by clerics, paladins, druids, favoured souls and other devout military classes.

Golden Vanguard of Inti Wielder Requirements
Ability to cast 1st-level divine spells
Any nonevil, nonchaotic alignment
Base attack bonus +2

{table]Wielder Level|Abilities
5th|+1 bashing spiked heavy wooden shield (1d8 damage and as +1 weapon when bashing)
6th|Shining Might +2
7th|+2 bashing +1 spiked heavy wooden shield
8th|Luminous Brawn
9th|Shining Might +4
10th|+2 bashing spiked heavy wooden shield
11th|Golden Grandeur
12th|Inti’s Brilliance
13th|+2 bashing brutal surge spiked heavy wooden shield
14th|Shining Might +6
15th|
16th|+3 bashing brutal surge spiked heavy wooden shield[/table]
Legacy Item Abilities
All the following are legacy item abilities of Golden Vanguard of Inti.
Shining Might (Su): At 6th level, you are infused with some of Inti’s power, gaining a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength. This enhancement increases to +4 at level 9 and to +6 at level 14.
Luminous Brawn (Su): At 8th level and higher, you gain a +4 bonus on the opposed Strength check made during a bull rush attempt, and you push your opponent back an additional 5 feet if the attempt is successful.
Golden Grandeur (Sp): From 11th level, you are under the effect of enlarge person. This is constant, and can be suppressed.
Inti’s Brilliance (Sp): Starting at 13th level, the golden sun can emit a beam of light equivalent to a daylight spell at will. Caster level 10th.

The god himself:
Inti, Inca God of the Sun
Inti
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/504px-Sol_de_Mayo-Bandera_de_Uruguaysvg.png
Giver of Life, The Smiling Sun
Greater Deity
Symbol: A benign sun face surrounded by long rays.
Home Plane: Elysium
Alignment: Lawful Good
Portfolio: Sun, light, strength, healing, life, protection, rulership.
Worshippers: Bards, rangers, druids, healers, rulers, nobles, guards, Good warriors.
Cleric alignments: LG, NG, LN.
Domains: Good, Healing, Life, Nobility, Protection, Strength, Sun
Favoured weapon: Shields.
Inti is the Handia (South American - Inca) equivalent/counterpart to Pelor, with more emphasis on protection and authority. He is a strong, noble warrior in shining gold armour and his great shield. He is the defender of the weak and a bastion of justice. He is commonly worshipped by farmers who rely on the sun for their livelihoods, and by just kings and the defenders of good.
Dogma
Inti is a stoic but kind god. He teaches that it is the duty of the strong to protect the weak. Just as the burning sun nurtures the delicate seedling until it grows into a strong and sturdy tree, so too should his mighty followers bolster the weak to make them strong enough to stand on their own.
Clergy and Temples
Gold is the colour and material most favoured by the clerics of Inti. Their temples are often heavily decorated with the metal, and are usually wide open to the sunshine. The clerics are usually patient and protective, but have backbones of steel and hearts of diamond. They believe in strength and toughness, and in sharing those with the people without until they have enough of their own. They will defend those in need, but consider just as important teaching them to defend themselves.
Personal Attributes
Cleric/Fighter(or Warblade)/Paladin(or Crusader)
Wields the Vanguard of Inti.

The creation for both of these went hand in hand: the player wanted a character who worshipped a Good god of strength, and who had a rockin' massive shield for bashing with.

[Hunter Killer]

Very nice, Serpentine. Do you mind if I yoink those for my campaigns?

I especially love that the deity has Favored Weapon: Shields. Always wanted to write up a badass shield bashing god myself, just never got around to it. :smallbiggrin:

[Gullintanni]

Very nice, Serpentine. Do you mind if I yoink those for my campaigns?

I especially love that the deity has Favored Weapon: Shields. Always wanted to write up a badass shield bashing god myself, just never got around to it. :smallbiggrin:

For extra style points, name your god Armored Armadillo of the Rolling Shield.

[Serpentine]

Very nice, Serpentine. Do you mind if I yoink those for my campaigns?

I especially love that the deity has Favored Weapon: Shields. Always wanted to write up a badass shield bashing god myself, just never got around to it. :smallbiggrin:Thanks! He usually only uses shields as his weapon. I think the player is, too.
And sure, go ahead. I did Kokopeli, too. Tried to start a thread to collect all things godly, but it didn't take off :/

[Terazul]

Yeah, Weapons of Legacy (sometimes+item familiar!) actually does it fairly well if you go by the forging your own legacy rules. The actual monetary costs tend to result in the weapon being far cheaper than if you tried to buy/craft one with the same properties.

Basically always build your own or work with the DM to build your own.

And as far as having unique cool things, it also certainly helps to have these (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19862762/Weapons_of_Legacy_Ability_List_%28who_knew_there_w ere_so_many%29) links (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19858386/Building_a_weapon_of_legacy,_for_dummies.) available. And always have Cunning in the level 11 slot.

[Serpentine]

Damn, you got me all excited. I thought one of those was gonna be the generic ability list I've been thinking of making but they're not :smallfrown: The first should be useful, though.

edit: Plegh. Someone write this history for me.

[Zaq]

On a somewhat related note, my DM and I were having a casual discussion about comically oversized weapons (you know, all the usual size-stacking shenanigans), and the topic of a character wielding a Colossal sugliin (weighing in at 320 pounds and a minimum length of 50') came up. Somewhere along the line, it got named "Yggdrasil," which is a rather appropriate name, I think. What enhancements would you pile on something like that to make it even remotely worthy of the name? (Yes, OK, the real World-Tree is probably a little bit bigger than 320 pounds, but that's not the point right now.) Of course, if such a thing ever actually appears in-game, it'll be really low-level (E6 campaign with a hard CL cap on item crafting, but oh well), but sometimes that's not the point.

[Serpentine]

It could be made from a bit of the world tree...
There's several items that can be wielded as though it's a smaller item, so I'd say that's a place to start. I'm not sure what else there is about Yggdrasil... Something about giving life? Perhaps granting the wielder regeneration?

Update: I've got the history done. Working out rituals... Curse my stupid memory! I can't remember whether the "roleplaying requirement" I thought of was actually a ritual, or an actual roleplaying requirement I've now forgotten :smallsigh:

[Zaq]

Well, Odin did hang himself on it for nine days and nine nights to learn . . . runes, wasn't it? Been a little while, so the details have left me. And I know that Gungnir was originally a branch from it, so there's precedent there, at least.

It wouldn't directly translate very well, but I'm sure we can come up with something interesting.

[Serpentine]

Intelligence bonus, then, and/or Knowledge bonuses.

Argh! What was the roleplaying requirement I came up with?! :smallfurious:

[Cieyrin]

It could be made from a bit of the world tree...
There's several items that can be wielded as though it's a smaller item, so I'd say that's a place to start. I'm not sure what else there is about Yggdrasil... Something about giving life? Perhaps granting the wielder regeneration

You could also make it Undeadbane and other positive energy related abilities. Drawing from the anime Mnemosyne (good show, btw. Excellent take on how take on how immortals should work), it could extend the wielder's life span and grant immunity to poisons and diseases and ultimately grant immortality, as in they don't die of old age while they are the bonded wielder, making 'em a psuedo-Highlander, which is its own kind of cool. :smallwink:

[Partysan]

I never had a problem with costly rituals to unlock a weapon's power, but what kills it for me are the other sacrifices: a melee character losing 3 points of BAB for using a weapon? I mean, even if it's +5 it immediately goes down to +2 for that, not to mention his ability to power attack and use other weapons is diminished as well and now the weapon isn't even that good anymore. And then you also have to sacrifice HP, or saves etc...

[Serpentine]

Okay, but I'm a bit tired and having trouble coming up with ideas. How about a sword forged from the fang of a great wyrm gold dragon that grants its wielder the dragon's power? Despite being forged from a gold dragon, it is actually a vicious weapon and the dragon's soul is trapped in it. Abilities could include a breath weapon, flight, spell-like abilities, swimming, etc. I'll leave the exact powers up to you.Alllllright! Here's what I've come up with!

Aurixdartak (The Golden Hate)/Drakesoul (Legacy Item)
This ivory shortsword was carved from the great canine of a massive dragon. The blade is carved with runes, and the hilt is wrapped in dragon-skin leather.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/Dragon__s_Tooth_by_LycanKnight.jpghttp://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/wyrmbrand_by_uncleazazello-d3137wg.png
(it looks like the latter if it were made with the former)

Nonlegacy Game Statistics: +1 flaming shortsword. It is also intelligent, but cannot – or does not – communicate beyond very vague, faint hunches and feelings; Cost 9000gp; Weight 2lb.
Omen: When the wielder thinks about putting the sword down or away, it absorbs into their skin leaving nothing but a tooth-shaped birthmark. It cannot be found with a Search check, but its magical aura is still detectable. It can generally only be put down if the sword wants to be, or by giving it to someone else. When the owner thinks about drawing it, it appears in their hand. This can be disconcerting the first few times it happens, but there is no sense of wrongness or discomfort.

History
Korthvorel, a truly ancient gold dragon, left her mate and what would probably be her last clutch to hunt. When she returned, she found a slaughterhouse. Her young mate, her wyrmlings had all been butchered; even the unhatched eggs had been crushed. She found the villains glorying over her hoard, and shrouded in a red haze she tore into them. The battle was long and bloody, but Korthvorel wasn’t fighting with a clear head and she was finally brought down, although not before slaying or mortally wounding most of the humanoids.
Before the life finally faded from her eyes, the last man standing limped over to her and wrenched a tooth from her mighty jaws. Full of a last burst of hatred and fury, she willed the last shreds of her consciousness into her fang.
Some months later, a haggard, bruised and scarred elf stumbled into a passing traveller and pressed a dragon-tooth sword into her surprised palm.

Legacy Rituals
Three rituals are required to unlock all the abilities of Drakesoul.
Investigation: The sword subtly prompts the wielder to investigate it. Research its provenance, and discover the names of the dragon trapped within and the people who put it there. Cost: ~1,500gp (travel, bribery, library fees and text costs). Feat Granted: Least Legacy (Drakesoul).
[name]: [Ritual] Cost: 11,500gp. Feat Granted: Lesser Legacy (Drakesoul).
Retribution: Track down the person who tore the tooth from Korthvorel’s mouth and kill him. If he is already dead, resurrect him and kill him again – the death blow must come from Aurixdartak. Cost: 38,000gp (the murderer is very high level, so it will take a lot of resources to take him down). Feat Granted: Greater Legacy (Drakesoul).

Personal Cost
Any time you come across an item made from a metallic dragon, you must acquire it and keep or destroy it. It may not be sold on. You may lend it to a party member or friend, but you must not allow it to leave your possession intact. And you must always treat it with the utmost respect.

Wielder Requirements
Aurixdartak is not fussy about who uses her, so long as she gets to vent her enduring rage in blood.

Aurixdartak/Drakesoul Wielder Requirements
Base attack bonus +4
Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks

{table=head]Wielder Level|Abilities
5th|Awakening
6th|Fire Spit
7th|
8th|Dragonscales +1
9th|+1 keen flaming shortsword
10th|
11th|Emergence
12th|+2 enfeebling keen flaming shortsword
13th|Blazing Breath
14th|Dragonscales +2
15th|Dragonwings
16th|Dragon Form 1/day
17th|Dragonjaws
18th|Dragonscales +3
19th|Dragon’s Luck
20th|Greater Dragon Form 3/day[/table]

Legacy Item Abilities
All the following are legacy item abilities of Drakesoul.
Awakening (Su): At 5th level, the spirit of Aurixdartak reveals its presence to you. She first expresses her joy at your discovery of her history, and then her anguish over the slaughtering of her family. She urges you to slay anyone who even vaguely reminds her of the adventurers, yet almost reluctantly encourages you to do the right thing when it comes up. She communicates empathically, and can hear and see out to 60ft. It has Intelligence and Charisma 13 and Wisdom 10. It has a starting Ego score of 4. This increases to 6 at level 6. The alignment of the soul is True Neutral.
Fire Spit (Sp): From 6th level the fire of Aurixdartak’s fury builds up in your belly, and can be spit at their enemies. As fireball, 3/day, save DC 12, or 11 + your Constitution modifier, whichever is higher.
Dragonscales (Su): As Drakesoul bonds with you, physical aspects start to leech through. At 8th level, you grow thin, yellow scales that grant natural armour +1. The scales gradually grow more prominent, and the armour bonus increases to +2 at level 14 and +3 at level 18.
Emergence (Su): At level 11 Aurixdartak’s consciousness bubbles to the surface. She becomes able to communicate with you telepathically, speaking Common, Draconic, and up to 3 languages spoken by you. She can hear and see to 120ft with darkvision, has blindsense within 120ft, and gains Intelligence of Intelligence and Charisma 18 and Wisdom 10. It has an Ego score of 12. This increases to 14 at level 12, and to 16 at level 16.
Blazing Breath (Sp): The fury of Aurixdartak rearranges your very internal physiology, allowing you to breathe fire as she could when she lived. Both the internal organs and the mouth and jaws change to slightly resemble those of a dragon. From 13th level at will, you can spew a 15ft cone of fire that deals 1d6 damage per 3 HD. Standard action, Reflex save for half with DC 11 or 11+ Constitution modifier, whichever is higher, spell resistance applies.
Dragonwings (Su): As Drakesoul melds further with you, you develop two large humps on your back. Finally, at level 15, they break open to reveal a pair of golden wings. Flying with them takes a lot of effort, and so can only be done up to one minute per Constitution modifier before the wings need an hour of rest. They can be used to glide at any time.
Dragon Form (Sp): The souls of yourself and Aurixdartak meld until the line between one and the other is fuzzy at best. From level 16, they can become truly as one. The process is difficult and hard on the body, so a full rest must be had between each transformation. The ability is as the spell polymorph, juvenile dragon only.
If you have an Evil alignment, using this ability triggers a personality conflict between yourself and Drakesoul. If she succeeds, she takes over your body and forces your psyche deep into the back of your/her mind. The dragon form becomes her natural shape, but her alternate form becomes yours rather than her original.
If you have a Good alignment, she will continue to act as your weapon until you become old and approaching death. At that point she will take dragon form, as above, but share her mind with you as she lives out her life again.
Dragonjaws (Su): Your jaw further warps and changes to be more draconian. You gain a bite attack that deals damage as a dragon of the same size (1d8 piercing for medium). Your wings also strengthen to the point they can be used as weapons as well (1d4 each for medium). You are considered to have Multiattack for the purpose of using the bite, wings and Drakesoul.
Dragon’s Luck (Su): You develop the habit of keeping a favourite gem on your person. At 19th level, Aurixdartak is able to infuse it with luck as the gold dragon’s Luck Bonus ability, except the effect lasts as long as you carry the gem and applies to any of your allies regardless of their alignment.
Greater Dragon Form (Sp): The line between dragon and you becomes nigh-indistinguishable. At level 20 the dragon form becomes greater, young adult form; the process becomes easier so it can be done 3 times before requiring a full rest; and duration increases to 15 minutes per level. Aurixdartak gains a +4 bonus to Ego to take over the body of an Evil owner when this form is used.So, how's that? Couldn't think of a second ritual, though... Might just go with "offer yourself in service to a metalic dragon for X amount of time", but I dunno. I'm also a bit iffy on the Personal Cost. Any suggestions?

[Drolyt]

Alllllright! Here's what I've come up with!

Aurixdartak (The Golden Hate)/Drakesoul (Legacy Item)
This ivory shortsword was carved from the great canine of a massive dragon. The blade is carved with runes, and the hilt is wrapped in dragon-skin leather.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/Dragon__s_Tooth_by_LycanKnight.jpghttp://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/wyrmbrand_by_uncleazazello-d3137wg.png
(it looks like the latter if it were made with the former)

Nonlegacy Game Statistics: +1 flaming shortsword. It is also intelligent, but cannot – or does not – communicate beyond very vague, faint hunches and feelings; Cost 5000gp; Weight 2lb.
Omen: When the wielder thinks about putting the sword down or away, it absorbs into their skin leaving nothing but a tooth-shaped birthmark. It cannot be found with a Search check, but its magical aura is still detectable. It can generally only be put down if the sword wants to be, or by giving it to someone else. When the owner thinks about drawing it, it appears in their hand. This can be disconcerting the first few times it happens, but there is no sense of wrongness or discomfort.

History
Korthvorel, a truly ancient gold dragon, left her mate and what would probably be her last clutch to hunt. When she returned, she found a slaughterhouse. Her young mate, her wyrmlings had all been butchered; even the unhatched eggs had been crushed. She found the villains glorying over her hoard, and shrouded in a red haze she tore into them. The battle was long and bloody, but Korthvorel wasn’t fighting with a clear head and she was finally brought down, although not before slaying or mortally wounding most of the humanoids.
Before the life finally faded from her eyes, the last man standing limped over to her and wrenched a tooth from her mighty jaws. Full of a last burst of hatred and fury, she willed the last shreds of her consciousness into her fang.
Some months later, a haggard, bruised and scarred elf stumbled into a passing traveller and pressed a dragon-tooth sword into her surprised palm.

Legacy Rituals
Three rituals are required to unlock all the abilities of Drakesoul.
Investigation: The sword subtly prompts the wielder to investigate it. Research its provenance, and discover the names of the dragon trapped within and the people who put it there. Cost: ~1,500gp (travel, bribery, library fees and text costs). Feat Granted: Least Legacy (Drakesoul).
[name]: [Ritual] Cost: 11,500gp. Feat Granted: Lesser Legacy (Drakesoul).
Retribution: Track down the person who tore the tooth from Korthvorel’s mouth and kill him. If he is already dead, resurrect him and kill him again – the death blow must come from Aurixdartak. Cost: 38,000gp (the murderer is very high level, so it will take a lot of resources to take him down). Feat Granted: Greater Legacy (Drakesoul).

Personal Cost
Any time you come across an item made from a metallic dragon, you must acquire it and keep or destroy it. It may not be sold on. You may lend it to a party member or friend, but you must not allow it to leave your possession intact. And you must always treat it with the utmost respect.

Wielder Requirements
Aurixdartak is not fussy about who uses her, so long as she gets to vent her enduring rage in blood.

Aurixdartak/Drakesoul Wielder Requirements
Base attack bonus +4
Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks

{table=head]Wielder Level|Abilities
5th|Awakening
6th|Fire Spit
7th|
8th|Dragonscales +1
9th|+1 keen flaming shortsword
10th|
11th|Emergence
12th|+2 enfeebling keen flaming shortsword
13th|Blazing Breath
14th|Dragonscales +2
15th|Dragonwings
16th|Dragon Form 1/day
17th|Dragonjaws
18th|Dragonscales +3
19th|Dragon’s Luck
20th|Greater Dragon Form 3/day[/table]

Legacy Item Abilities
All the following are legacy item abilities of Drakesoul.
Awakening (Su): At 5th level, the spirit of Aurixdartak reveals its presence to you. She first expresses her joy at your discovery of her history, and then her anguish over the slaughtering of her family. She urges you to slay anyone who even vaguely reminds her of the adventurers, yet almost reluctantly encourages you to do the right thing when it comes up. She communicates empathically, and can hear and see out to 60ft. It has Intelligence and Charisma 13 and Wisdom 10. It has a starting Ego score of 4. This increases to 6 at level 6. The alignment of the soul is True Neutral.
Fire Spit (Sp): From 6th level the fire of Aurixdartak’s fury builds up in your belly, and can be spit at their enemies. As fireball, 3/day, save DC 12, or 11 + your Constitution modifier, whichever is higher.
Dragonscales (Su): As Drakesoul bonds with you, physical aspects start to leech through. At 8th level, you grow thin, yellow scales that grant natural armour +1. The scales gradually grow more prominent, and the armour bonus increases to +2 at level 14 and +3 at level 18.
Emergence (Su): At level 11 Aurixdartak’s consciousness bubbles to the surface. She becomes able to communicate with you telepathically, speaking Common, Draconic, and up to 3 languages spoken by you. She can hear and see to 120ft with darkvision, has blindsense within 120ft, and gains Intelligence of Intelligence and Charisma 18 and Wisdom 10. It has an Ego score of 12. This increases to 14 at level 12, and to 16 at level 16.
Blazing Breath (Sp): The fury of Aurixdartak rearranges your very internal physiology, allowing you to breathe fire as she could when she lived. Both the internal organs and the mouth and jaws change to slightly resemble those of a dragon. From 13th level at will, you can spew a 15ft cone of fire that deals 1d6 damage per 3 HD. Standard action, Reflex save for half with DC 11 or 11+ Constitution modifier, whichever is higher, spell resistance applies.
Dragonwings (Su): As Drakesoul melds further with you, you develop two large humps on your back. Finally, at level 15, they break open to reveal a pair of golden wings. Flying with them takes a lot of effort, and so can only be done up to one minute per Constitution modifier before the wings need an hour of rest. They can be used to glide at any time.
Dragon Form (Sp): The souls of yourself and Aurixdartak meld until the line between one and the other is fuzzy at best. From level 16, they can become truly as one. The process is difficult and hard on the body, so a full rest must be had between each transformation. The ability is as the spell polymorph, juvenile dragon only.
If you have an Evil alignment, using this ability triggers a personality conflict between yourself and Drakesoul. If she succeeds, she takes over your body and forces your psyche deep into the back of your/her mind. The dragon form becomes her natural shape, but her alternate form becomes yours rather than her original.
If you have a Good alignment, she will continue to act as your weapon until you become old and approaching death. At that point she will take dragon form, as above, but share her mind with you as she lives out her life again.
Dragonjaws (Su): Your jaw further warps and changes to be more draconian. You gain a bite attack that deals damage as a dragon of the same size (1d8 piercing for medium). Your wings also strengthen to the point they can be used as weapons as well (1d4 each for medium). You are considered to have Multiattack for the purpose of using the bite, wings and Drakesoul.
Dragon’s Luck (Su): You develop the habit of keeping a favourite gem on your person. At 19th level, Aurixdartak is able to infuse it with luck as the gold dragon’s Luck Bonus ability, except the effect lasts as long as you carry the gem and applies to any of your allies regardless of their alignment.
Greater Dragon Form (Sp): The line between dragon and you becomes nigh-indistinguishable. At level 20 the dragon form becomes greater, young adult form; the process becomes easier so it can be done 3 times before requiring a full rest; and duration increases to 15 minutes per level. Aurixdartak gains a +4 bonus to Ego to take over the body of an Evil owner when this form is used.So, how's that? Couldn't think of a second ritual, though... Might just go with "offer yourself in service to a metalic dragon for X amount of time", but I dunno. I'm also a bit iffy on the Personal Cost. Any suggestions?
That's actually a pretty cool sword. I think I'm starting to like Weapons of Legacy better. It's still a poorly written book, but with a little houseruling it works quite. You've also given me a better idea of how to incorporate the gold cost for the rituals. Some of the examples in the book are just bizarre, for example (opening to a random page) one involves climbing to the top of a mountain and lighting fire and incense. 12,000 GP incense. WTF? Even if you account for mountaineering equipment or something, how does that add up to 12,000 GP. Oddly, if we use the example of Tetsusaiga it makes a lot of sense, since Tetsusaiga was usually powered up by having it reforged. Another thought I had is that you should be able to buy the feats normally instead of having to pay the gold cost (you should probably still have to do the ritual though). Anyways, good work.
Edit: The personal cost isn't much of a cost, and as for the second ritual, how about an offering to her dead children?

[Serpentine]

Yeah, I pretty much require my monetary costs to make sense (notice, also, that all my costs are the lowest in the book). I don't mind the idea of spending a feat properly instead of the money, though... I'd still require the ritual, but.

Partysan: Yes, the mechanical cost is well complained about. As I've said several times now, it is standard practice for me to swap them for roleplaying-based costs, unless the player prefers the mechanical ones.

edit: Well, it could get awkward if, say, the dragon part in question forms the precious ceremonial sceptre of the king... I'm open to other suggestions, though.
What sort of offering, do you think? Just a full-blown funeral wherever, or would you have to seek out the actual remains or her cave? As a rule I dislike rituals that are attached to a specific place, but this could be replonkable enough to be okay.

[Drolyt]

Yeah, I pretty much require my monetary costs to make sense (notice, also, that all my costs are the lowest in the book). I don't mind the idea of spending a feat properly instead of the money, though... I'd still require the ritual, but.

Partysan: Yes, the mechanical cost is well complained about. As I've said several times now, it is standard practice for me to swap them for roleplaying-based costs, unless the player prefers the mechanical ones.
Make sure to catch my edit in my last post. Stupid ninja. As for the costs, they work out well for spellcasters, since they typically involve losing a few spell slots (directly offset by the spell-like and supernatural abilities you get to replace it) and maybe a couple caster levels, which can be bought off with a feat if it really bothers you. The problem is that the weapons meant for warrior types often take off BAB, directly countering one of the benefits of a magic weapon and making you worse than if you just bought a damn weapon. Sure a Weapon of Legacy might have several abilities in addition to its +5 (effectively +2) bonus, but I'd rather have the attack bonus most of the time.
Edit: The offering could be conducted anywhere I suppose.

[Serpentine]

I caught it. You missed mine :smalltongue:
More than anything, I just don't find those costs very interesting, nor sensical *shrug*

edit: Now what would a memorial service for baby and daddy dragons be like...?

[Dralnu]

There's some cool pre-made magic weapons found in the Magic Item Compendium. Here's one I just found on the very first page:

This greataxe is decorated with the holy symbol of Moradin. It is made of a nigh-unbreakable material and its blade is so sharp that it cuts through armor like a hot knife through butter. When in the hands of a worthy individual, the greataxe reveals its intelligence and sentience, offering the wielder advice and alerting him of dangers with its telepathy, astute hearing, and darkvision. The greataxe can also heal the most grievous of wounds, fill the wielder and all his allies with courage to fight better in battle, light up the stealthiest of foes with a magical glow, and even cause the wielder and his allies to move and strike with supernatural agility.

Not bad?

[Cieyrin]

I think the initial price of Drakesoul is off, as +1 flaming is a +2 equivalent and at least 8000 gp, not including its vague intellect and perfect concealability. Most WoLs limit themselves to +1, so perhaps it should be backpedaled to that, with the weapon enhancements matched.

Other than that, it's rather nifty as weapons go. For the burial service, perhaps the gathering of a treasure trove of gold that's ceremonially sacrificed, let's say 3-5k per wyrmling and 10-15k for the mate. This doubles as handling the cost.

[Serpentine]

Whoops, my bad. I just doubled it and rounded up. Lets make it 9,000, then.
Okay, so we say you have to gather a hoard as tribute to the dead family. Then what? What do you do with it? Bury it? Destroy it somehow? Melt it together to make a monument?

[Drolyt]

Melt it together to make a monument?
Sure, although I would make the offering something more... significant? Something with a greater connection to what you are doing anyways, which is honoring the dead. Might also require holding an actual service, with a funeral march or something.

[Quietus]

Whoops, my bad. I just doubled it and rounded up. Lets make it 9,000, then.
Okay, so we say you have to gather a hoard as tribute to the dead family. Then what? What do you do with it? Bury it? Destroy it somehow? Melt it together to make a monument?

Build a pyre, upon which the hoard is sacrificed in fire as a symbolic representation of the dragons you're commemorating? This way you don't have to track down the place where they died, but you're giving them their final respects, and echoing the fluff they mention in Draconomicon about how a dragon approaching its twilight will consume its own hoard in preparation for moving on.

[Cieyrin]

Build a pyre, upon which the hoard is sacrificed in fire as a symbolic representation of the dragons you're commemorating? This way you don't have to track down the place where they died, but you're giving them their final respects, and echoing the fluff they mention in Draconomicon about how a dragon approaching its twilight will consume its own hoard in preparation for moving on.

Yeah, there we go.

[randomhero00]

OP: totally agree. I feel like magic weapons have been given a bad name.

And let's not forget, the most powerful magical weapon of all ;)

Lilarcor! He was an intelligent sword. :) "You know, my last owner always said I was 'sharp' and 'edgy'. He was such an a$$." -Lilarcor

[Serpentine]

Build a pyre, upon which the hoard is sacrificed in fire as a symbolic representation of the dragons you're commemorating? This way you don't have to track down the place where they died, but you're giving them their final respects, and echoing the fluff they mention in Draconomicon about how a dragon approaching its twilight will consume its own hoard in preparation for moving on.Wouldn't that leave a big ol' puddle of gold, though? Eh, I guess I could always say the sword magicifies it to be super-fire...
I'm not just being difficult, by the way. I do think this will be the best option. Just wanna make sure it makes sense, is doable, and is somewhat cool.

[Cieyrin]

Wouldn't that leave a big ol' puddle of gold, though? Eh, I guess I could always say the sword magicifies it to be super-fire...
I'm not just being difficult, by the way. I do think this will be the best option. Just wanna make sure it makes sense, is doable, and is somewhat cool.

Super fire? DRAGON FIRE! Made by your Blazing Breath!

At the end of the ceremony, if Korthvorel thinks you adequately honored her lost family, you transform to dragon form (since that's the first greater ability you get) as an indication of her final acceptance, or possibly, if the wielder's evil or deemed unworthy, as a method of disposing them and getting the Drakesoul to a worthier owner, who'll give proper burial rights. A.K.A. You get one shot and you better do it right the first time or suffer the consequences. :smallcool:

[Serpentine]

No, that's what happens in the last ritual - as soon as you've done it, you can turn into a dragon.
After the second, you can talk to her.

[Prime32]

I came up with a system to make magic weapons more interesting. Might need a bit of polishing but...
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10411

[marcielle]

Have a wee bit of confusion about the least legacy feat. It says level 5 is a prereq but as far as I know you don't normally get a feat at 5 so does it mean that once you preform the ritual, you get the feat?

[Serpentine]

Yep, that's exactly what it means. Performing the ritual grants you the feat.

[Arbitrarious]

I came up with a system to make magic weapons more interesting. Might need a bit of polishing but...
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10411

Excellent work. In my games we basically did the same thing except not nearly so fleshed out. Your signature item had class levels and could grant certain abilities to you and what not. I think I'll take this to my DM and see if we can switch to this though. Kudos.

[Drolyt]

Have a wee bit of confusion about the least legacy feat. It says level 5 is a prereq but as far as I know you don't normally get a feat at 5 so does it mean that once you preform the ritual, you get the feat?
Yes, the ritual grants you a bonus feat, you don't need to spend a feat slot on it. It is an odd way of doing things, and a lot of people have been confused by it. My guess is that the goal is to give you something to write on your character sheet so you know what rituals you've performed.

[Quietus]

Wouldn't that leave a big ol' puddle of gold, though? Eh, I guess I could always say the sword magicifies it to be super-fire...
I'm not just being difficult, by the way. I do think this will be the best option. Just wanna make sure it makes sense, is doable, and is somewhat cool.

Does the ritual grant you any abilities aside from just being able to talk to the dragon in the sword? Could those abilities be used to obliterate what remains, via dragon form eating it (which has already been shot down, just an example), or the sword's dragon breath somehow finishing the job? Alternatively, make part of the requirement that the pyre has to be hot enough to completely obliterate said gold (after all, this is a family of gold dragons, who were immune to fire - it'd better be hot to properly commemorate them!). Or perhaps let it form a puddle, which the sword then absorbs into itself.

Thinking about this, I'm thinking that part of the requirement being that the pyre needs to be hot enough to completely obliterate the gold would be a good way to do it. Having to build a fire so hot that you can't be within thirty feet of it for fear of bursting into flames yourself seems to be a good way to honor the memory of a family of fire-based dragons.

[ffone]

Above posters have given good suggestions for how to stat these.

It sounds like the OP's mostly complaining about

1. weapons not being 'uber' enough, like Gungnir. Well, for an interesting game it's generally good not to have a lot of 'trumps anything' things. DnD is interesting b/c while it's generally more 'high-powered / high-magic' than most fantasy settings, it tends to lack completely uber world-shattering artifacts (unless your DM is fond if "if the BBEG finds this object, the world will end" McGuffins, or ridiculous homebrew items that are uber).

2. The fact that item creation is fairly modular, especially for weapons - you have a menu of individually simple things you can add. This is *good* IMO, and many manuals have other more unique items. Even the SRD has some fairly unique ones, like the Sunblade which can create light by spinning it overhead.

3. weapons not having some of the abilities that are typically found on wondrous items instead (such as the scarab / scabbard of wound pleasure.) It's fairly easy to do this, though, there are even DMG/SRD rules for "secondary abilities." It's just not common, in a high-op setting, for people to do a lot of this; it's generally better for any abilities not directly related to attacking with that weapon to be put on other wondrous items, because

A. The 50% price increase for secondary abilities.
B. Then the ability is only active when you hold the weapon; you may need the hands for something else, you may get disarmed (or sundered!), you may be in social settings where holding naked swords would provoke hostility, etc.
C. the weapon and wondrous item, if kept separate, can be used by different party members, or one can be sold when you find a better replacement, etc.

If you're DM and you want to see more 'weapons with secondary abilities' you could waive the 50% price increase or even grant a slight discount (until a PC's body slots are full, there's little incentive to put things on weapons).

[Ravens_cry]

Magic weapons are only as boring as you make them in my opinion. Sure, a +1 flaming longsword is boring, but Firebringer, weilded by the dwarven warlord High Baron Kazbar Burnbeard, inscribed with runes reading "My Enemies Shall Burn", something with a history, now that adds interest.

[Serpentine]

scabbard of wound pleasure.*snigger* :smallamused: / *squick* :smallyuk:

[Feytalist]

*snigger* :smallamused: / *squick* :smallyuk:

Looks like someone has something on their mind.

I have been known to arbitrarily slap random effects onto weapons to make them "unique", generally without regard for power level or cost, especially if they fit nicely into the current campaign.

Even the act of giving it a name (ICallItVera) or a distinguishing characteristic does wonders for its memorability.

[Serpentine]

Hey, it wasn't my Freudian slip...

[Ravens_cry]

Hey, it wasn't my Freudian slip...
Was it Jungian Lingerie then?:smalltongue:

[Feytalist]

Hey, it wasn't my Freudian slip...

Ah yes, but you picked up on it and ran with it... :smalltongue:

[marcielle]

Since this is the only living legacy weapon thread, anyone mind if I ask for some sugestions on my legacy weapon? Is it balanced? Is it too weak? I am using a Tashalatora Monk gish. Amaterasu doesn't really fit, just couldn't think of anything else. Any replacement sugestions would be awesome. Also, anyone know how to do that table thing serpentine did?

3 Darkening Clouds Prayer Beads

A string of 101 prayerbeads. Other than it's lenght, nothing sets it apart at first glance. Detect magic shows nothing but a +1 Necklace but a comunicate with the dead spell instantly calls forth the spirit of master 3 Clouds.
Nonlegacy: +1 Necklace of Natural Attacks. Can be worn in a hand or neck slot. Infuses owner with a fraction of the martial skill of the legacy founder, master 3 Clouds. Cost: 1700; Weight: negligible

History
3 Clouds always believed that the monks of his monastary were wasting their time with teachings of 'peace' and 'control'. He believed that they should make use the abilities they had acquired through training. That they should seek battle whenever possible and down that road led true perfection of their art. He left the monastary with nothing but the clothes on his back and his prayer beads. One day he returned and challenged all the temple masters and grandmasters simultaneously, defeating them all. However, even after becoming stronger than all his former teachers, 3 Clouds was still not satisfied. He had power, but no purpose to wield it for. He went off once again. This time, he would not return.

War tore the land apart. While the great houses battled, small countries were consumed in death and spellfire. One small village though, was untouched by the war. Rumor has it that a mighty spirit protected it, even a Warforged Titan was said to be lost to the mysterious guardian. There has been no sign of the guardian since the war ended but in the village is a little eastern shrine, scarcely larger than a dog house, with a long band of beads in the middle.

Omen: If 3 Clouds deems you worthy, his ghost appears before you and challenges you to become the successor of his school martial arts.

Wielder requirement - 5 levels in a monastic class.

Legacy rituals
Tao of Might - Wielder must defeat a creature of CR=ECL alone.

True to your tao - Provide undeniable proof of your alignment to 3 Clouds.

No foe too great - Defeat a Gargantuan or larger foe alone.

Personal cost: Must spend 3 hours a day training. If you fail to do so for 3 days in a row, you lose all abilities until you spend 9 consecutive hours training.
After the Lesser ritual, if you betray your alignment, you lose all powers until you attain atonement. Having a spell of atonement cast on you does not remedy this. This does not count if you are betrayed first, but ONLY for that specific case.

Optionals: Table 4-9/10 since I'm using a tashalatora gish.

{table=head]Level|Abilities
5 | Thunder Cloud - Wis to Hit
6 | Iron Cloud - Wis to AC
7 |
8 | Flowing Streams Stance
9 |
10| Amaterasu
11| 101 Entangling Earthly Sins
12| Swallow a River, Return an Ocean
13|
14|Concealing Cloud/Red Lightning
15|
16|Darkening Cloud - +5 deflection Bonus[/table]

Darkening Cloud Style - 3 Clouds self taught martial style. The Beads contain the teachings of the Darkening Cloud school.

Flowing Stream Stance(Ex) - Your movements flow like water. You are a chaotic blur to your opponents. Standard action to enter. 20% miss-chance. It is cancelled if you move > than half your base speed and you need to pay a swift and an immediate action to keep it up.

Amaterasu - The only god 3 Clouds worshiped was Amaterasu, mother to us All. As a tribute he developed a technique to project his burning spirit. Scorching Ray at will

101 Entangling Earthly Sins - Beads come to life and create snares around your feet. 5x5 area centering you(but not including you're square) is under the grease affect. Setting fire to the beads does not damage them but only damages anyone caught in the effect if they are prone. The only movement you can take is a 5ft step. Otherwise, the beads return immediately and the effect ends.

Swallow a River, Return an Ocean - +1 Wrathful Necklace.

Concealing Cloud(Su) - You achieve a hightened state of being and can partly fade into the ether itself. Invisibility at will.

Red Lightning(Su) - Like a storm cloud you release your fury, devastating those in the way. By focusing your internal energy, you create a powerful line of lightning. Attempting to use it more than 3 times a day is tiring. You must pass a DC 15 Fort check that increases by 5 each subsequent time. Failure means you take 1 CON damage and cannot attempt another Fort check until you have rested. Lightning 3/day.

p.s. Some of these will sound awfully familiar to anyone who has read 'Heaven Sword, Dragon Sabre'

[Drolyt]

Since this is the only living legacy weapon thread, anyone mind if I ask for some sugestions on my legacy weapon? Is it balanced? Is it too weak? I am using a Tashalatora Monk gish. Amaterasu doesn't really fit, just couldn't think of anything else. Any replacement sugestions would be awesome. Also, anyone know how to do that table thing serpentine did?

3 Darkening Clouds Prayer Beads

A string of 101 prayerbeads. Other than it's lenght, nothing sets it apart at first glance. Detect magic shows nothing but a +1 Necklace but a comunicate with the dead spell instantly calls forth the spirit of master 3 Clouds.
Nonlegacy: +1 Necklace of Natural Attacks. Can be worn in a hand or neck slot. Infuses owner with a fraction of the martial skill of the legacy founder, master 3 Clouds. Cost: 1700; Weight: negligible

History
3 Clouds always believed that the monks of his monastary were wasting their time with teachings of 'peace' and 'control'. He believed that they should make use the abilities they had acquired through training. That they should seek battle whenever possible and down that road led true perfection of their art. He left the monastary with nothing but the clothes on his back and his prayer beads. One day he returned and challenged all the temple masters and grandmasters simultaneously, defeating them all. However, even after becoming stronger than all his former teachers, 3 Clouds was still not satisfied. He had power, but no purpose to wield it for. He went off once again. This time, he would not return.

War tore the land apart. While the great houses battled, small countries were consumed in death and spellfire. One small village though, was untouched by the war. Rumor has it that a mighty spirit protected it, even a Warforged Titan was said to be lost to the mysterious guardian. There has been no sign of the guardian since the war ended but in the village is a little eastern shrine, scarcely larger than a dog house, with a long band of beads in the middle.

Omen: If 3 Clouds deems you worthy, his ghost appears before you and challenges you to become the successor of his school martial arts.
Wielder requirement - 5 levels in a monastic class.
Legacy rituals
Tao of Might - Wielder must defeat a creature of CR=ECL alone.

True to your tao - Provide undeniable proof of your alignment to 3 Clouds.

No foe too great - Defeat a Gargantuan or larger foe alone.

Personal cost: Must spend 3 hours a day training. If you fail to do so for 3 days in a row, you lose all abilities until you spend 9 consecutive hours training.
After the Lesser ritual, if you betray your alignment, you lose all powers until you attain atonement. Having a spell of atonement cast on you does not remedy this. This does not count if you are betrayed first, but ONLY for that specific case.

Optionals: Table 4-9/10 since I'm using a tashalatora gish.

5: Thunder Cloud - Wis to Hit
6: Iron Cloud - Wis to AC
7: -
8: Flowing Streams Stance
9: -
10: Amaterasu
11: 101 Entangling Earthly Sins
12: Swallow a River, Return an Ocean
13:
14:Concealing Cloud/Red Lightning
15:
16:Darkening Cloud Style - +5 deflection Bonus

Darkening Cloud Style - 3 Clouds self taught martial style. The Beads contain the teachings of the Darkening Cloud school.

Flowing Stream Stance(Ex) - Your movements flow like water. You are a chaotic blur to your opponents. Standard action to enter. 20% miss-chance. It is cancelled if you move > than half your base speed and you need to pay a swift and an immediate action to keep it up.

Amaterasu - The only god 3 Clouds worshiped was Amaterasu, mother to us All. As a tribute he developed a technique to project his burning spirit. Scorching Ray at will

101 Entangling Earthly Sins - Beads come to life and create snares around your feet. 5x5 area centering you(but not including you're square) is under the grease affect. Setting fire to the beads does not damage them but only damages anyone caught in the effect if they are prone. The only movement you can take.

Swallow a River, Return an Ocean - +1 Wrathful Necklace.

Concealing Cloud(Su) - You achieve a hightened state of being and can partly fade into the ether itself. Invisibility at will.

Red Lightning(Su) - Like a storm cloud you release your fury, devastating those in the way. By focusing your internal energy, you create a powerful line of lightning. Attempting to use it more than 3 times a day is tiring. You must pass a DC 15 Fort check that increases by 5 each subsequent time. Failure means you take 1 CON damage and cannot attempt another Fort check until you have rested. Lightning 3/day.


This thead should teach you how to make tables. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313)

[marcielle]

Thank you, kitty.:smallbiggrin:

[Drolyt]

So, I actually saw while browsing this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19858386/Building_a_weapon_of_legacy,_for_dummies.) thread a link to a tetsusaiga (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13509480&postcount=5) weapon of legacy. Except... that link doesn't work. After spending way too much time on the internet trying to figure out why it appears that wizards.com once had something called "gleemax"... okay, I honestly have no clue what that is/was, but it seems they reorganized their forums some time ago, and the link just goes to their homepage. Wayback Machine doesn't have it either, so should I just assume that that post is lost forever? Grr, I really wanted to see how someone used weapons of legacy to make Tetsusaiga...

[marcielle]

Now, I've recently done a truckloada research on legacy weapons and I'm feelin' pretty confident I could build tetsusaiga for you. Only problem is I only ever read the first ten chapters of inuyasha so besides the infamous 'whole kill a 100 demos in 1 swing' part I do not actually know its powers. If you list them I could make it for you no prob.
Also, it would be strong but would roughly have to scale in power as per D&D balance rules. It'll be stronger than most swords you get regularly but you won't be killin a hundred demons at once till epic.

If you have a basic character build for the weilder(classes, race and what you wanna do) I can make it that much more effective.

[Drolyt]

Now, I've recently done a truckloada research on legacy weapons and I'm feelin' pretty confident I could build tetsusaiga for you. Only problem is I only ever read the first ten chapters of inuyasha so besides the infamous 'whole kill a 100 demos in 1 swing' part I do not actually know its powers. If you list them I could make it for you no prob.
Also, it would be strong but would roughly have to scale in power as per D&D balance rules. It'll be stronger than most swords you get regularly but you won't be killin a hundred demons at once till epic.

If you have a basic character build for the weilder(classes, race and what you wanna do) I can make it that much more effective.
I was just interested in what they had come up with... Here (http://inuyasha.wikia.com/wiki/Tetsusaiga) is a description of Tetsusaiga and its capabilities, if you don't mind spoilers. As for character build, Inuyasha is a half-human half-yokai, so probably a human with a template that gives him bonuses to all his physical stats, some claw attacks (which he can only use if he screams "Iron Reaver Soul Stealer"), a ranged claw attack using his own blood ("Blades of Blood"), and super smell (he's a dog yokai). He also loses his powers on the night of the new moon and becomes a normal human. He's some kind of martial class, perhaps a fighter, and probably has the Legacy Champion PRC (edit: or maybe a Kensei variant?), because honestly the bulk of his power revolves around that sword. Oh, and he has a super powered evil side that only manifests if he doesn't have his sword, but which would devour his soul if left unchecked.

[marcielle]

There is are actual yokai races but they are pretty underwhelming. Half yokai could be built using the 'lesser' variant like on planetouched. Abilities are barrier breaking, magic absorption and mother-of-all energy blast. So long as you don't mind doin it only a few times a day, each ability should be individually achievable. The ultimate attack that sends people to hell is basically what happens when a living spell 'gate' hits somebody. That would be tricky, not to mention probably epic level so that and the more obscure powers will have to be left out if that's alright.

p.s. gleemax was wizards prototype forum/blog. The current one is the finished version but they couldn't preserve all of the threads or something like that.

[Drolyt]

p.s. gleemax was wizards prototype forum/blog. The current one is the finished version but they couldn't preserve all of the threads or something like that.
Figured it was something like that. Where are these yokai races you speak of?

[Cieyrin]

I was just interested in what they had come up with... Here (http://inuyasha.wikia.com/wiki/Tetsusaiga) is a description of Tetsusaiga and its capabilities, if you don't mind spoilers. As for character build, Inuyasha is a half-human half-yokai, so probably a human with a template that gives him bonuses to all his physical stats, some claw attacks (which he can only use if he screams "Iron Reaver Soul Stealer"), a ranged claw attack using his own blood ("Blades of Blood"), and super smell (he's a dog yokai). He also loses his powers on the night of the new moon and becomes a normal human. He's some kind of martial class, perhaps a fighter, and probably has the Legacy Champion PRC (edit: or maybe a Kensei variant?), because honestly the bulk of his power revolves around that sword. Oh, and he has a super powered evil side that only manifests if he doesn't have his sword, but which would devour his soul if left unchecked.

Basically, Inuyasha is a variant Half-Fiend Human who calls out his attacks and is good at one thing: fighting with his sword. The series uses slow leveling progression so characters aren't suddenly Superman in a season, characters call their attacks (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CallingYourAttacks) and gain much of their power from Legacy Weapons and Artifacts.

[marcielle]

Oriental adventures has a race called hengeyokai. Like anthro races but less OP. It even has a built in mechanic for turning Inuyasha to human lol.
Also, just found banishing enchantment. Theres the ultimate attack taken care of. Will only work on extraplanar but since its a sword meant to kill demos ONLY, that won't be a problem :smallbiggrin:

ps. bloodclaws=bloodstorm blade throw natural attack. Just think about it.

[Drolyt]

Oriental adventures has a race called hengeyokai. Like anthro races but less OP. It even has a built in mechanic for turning Inuyasha to human lol.
Also, just found banishing enchantment. Theres the ultimate attack taken care of. Will only work on extraplanar but since its a sowrd meant to kill demos ONLY, that won't be a problem :smallbiggrin:
Yokai aren't extraplanar, but it is a good approximation as far as the D&D rules go.

[ffone]

*snigger* :smallamused: / *squick* :smallyuk:

Smartphone autocomplete. (Your obligatory 'yeah right' goes here)

[marcielle]

Tetsusaiga
Normally looks like a rusty old katana. It can scarcely cut wood in it's state. In the right hands, however, it's demonic powers are awakened and it transforms into a large +1 falchion.
Nonlegacy: Specifically cursed katana. Curse is alleviated while being wielded by a half-yokai of Good alignment.

History
If you are even looking at this you probably know the fluff by heart:smallwink:

Omen
If the sword is wielded by an appropriate heritor, it automatically transforms into an uncursed large falchion.

Legacy rituals
Pure hearted - Must provide the sword with proof of Good alignment through a selfless act.
Actually, I haven't seen enough of the anime to make up the next 2 rituals. I guess one of them ought to be defeat an ECL appropriate demon?

Personal cost: Easy - Pick a relevant cost table. The penalties are a result of you having to train to unlock the swords power, leaving less time for improving other skills.

Harder to balance but more appropriate - Sword can only be used to protect humans or perform acts of good. When used for personal gain, it reverts to cursed katana form. ( Also, at level 6 must take leadership and use it to get a teenage girl follower that starts off as commoner but later gains levels in wu jen/shugenja... I'm not sure which is more appropriate, if either of them are.)


{table=head]Level|Abilities
5 | Strong Grip(Tetsusaiga only)
6 |
7 | +1 Demonbane Falchion
8 |
9 |
10| Windscar 1/day
11|
12| Protect human 3/day
13|Red Tetsusaiga form
14|
15|
16| Windscar 3/day
17|
18|Backslash Wave at will
19|
20|Yoki absorbtion and Meidou Zangetsuha[/table]

Strong Grip - Monkey grip and no -2 penalty. Monky grip is generally a wasteful feat so I don't think any DM will mind negating the penalty

Windscar is the psionic power Energy Cone, but with no element and does +1 damage per die and inflicts slashing instead of energy damage.
Backslash wave is similar but uses Energy Wave power as base.

Protect human - Lesser globe of invulnerability on a human under your protection

Red Tetsusaiga - At will Knock. No barrier will stand in your way.

Yoki absorbtion - Sorry all I could think of was Vampiric enhancement

Meidou Zangetsuha - Banishing enchantment from MIC.

Probably not perfect since I don't watch the anime. Sorry:smalltongue:
Hope you like it anyways. Inuyasha pumps his own energy into Tetsusaiga to empower attacks. Play a psionic class and ask if you can do the same as per augmentation rules.

This is made assuming you can switch out any similar spell effect for another of equal or lower level.

[Drolyt]

Tetsusaiga
Normally looks like a rusty old katana. It can scarcely cut wood in it's state. In the right hands, however, it's demonic powers are awakened and it transforms into a large +1 falchion.
Nonlegacy: Specifically cursed katana. Curse is alleviated while being wielded by a half-yokai of Good alignment.

History
If you are even looking at this you probably know the fluff by heart:smallwink:

Omen
If the sword is wielded by an appropriate heritor, it automatically transforms into an uncursed large falchion.

Legacy rituals
Pure hearted - Must provide the sword with proof of Good alignment through a selfless act.
Actually, I haven't seen enough of the anime to make up the next 2 rituals. I guess one of them ought to be defeat an ECL appropriate demon?

Personal cost: Easy - Pick a relevant cost table. The penalties are a result of you having to train to unlock the swords power, leaving less time for improving other skills.

Harder to balance but more appropriate - Sword can only be used to protect humans or perform acts of good. When used for personal gain, it reverts to cursed katana form. ( Also, at level 6 must take leadership and use it to get a teenage girl follower that starts off as commoner but later gains levels in wu jen/shugenja... I'm not sure which is more appropriate, if either of them are.)


{table=head]Level|Abilities
5 | Strong Grip(Tetsusaiga only)
6 |
7 | +1 Demonbane Falchion
8 |
9 |
10| Windscar 1/day
11|
12| Protect human 3/day
13|Red Tetsusaiga form
14|
15|
16| Windscar 3/day
17|
18|Backslash Wave at will
19|
20|Yoki absorbtion and Meidou Zangetsuha[/table]

Strong Grip - Monkey grip and no -2 penalty. Monky grip is generally a wasteful feat so I don't think any DM will mind negating the penalty

Windscar is the psionic power Energy Cone, but with no element and does +1 damage per die and inflicts slashing instead of energy damage.
Backslash wave is similar but uses Energy Wave power as base.

Protect human - Lesser globe of invulnerability on a human under your protection

Red Tetsusaiga - At will Knock. No barrier will stand in your way.

Yoki absorbtion - Sorry all I could think of was Vampiric enhancement

Meidou Zangetsuha - Banishing enchantment from MIC.

Probably not perfect since I don't watch the anime. Sorry:smalltongue:
Hope you like it anyways.

This is made assuming you can switch out any similar spell effect for another of equal or lower level.
Pretty good. As for the rituals, one of them should definitely be slaying a powerful demon, since that is actually what Inuyasha had to do to unlock the Backlash Wave (it didn't really work out that way though, Spoilers:
He was supposed to kill it while it was sealed by stabbing it in the heart, since it is about 100 times stronger than Inuyasha at that point. Naraku broke the demon's seal, but Inuyasha managed to unlock the Backlash Wave and kill it while fighting it.)

[marcielle]

Warning, if you are psionic and your dm lets you augment tetsu's powers, backslash will do up to 33d6 to everything in a 120 ft cone. Not a lot to 1 strong enemy but imagine if every other square was inhabited by a low level demon.

YOU HAVE JUST KILLED 100 DEMONS IN A SINGLE SLASH!

[TurtleKing]

Sorry if this has already been covered I did skip about 1 1/2 pages.

Here is a little something to add straight from DMG II 3.5 page 229-231. Magic Item Signature Traits that can be chosen from a list when a NPC/PC picks up an Item Creation feat. The signature traits are purely for looks but can add some spice to the flavor. It has no effect on the magic items cost, time to make, and market price. When the character picked up the feat and chose a signature trait it applies to all of his creations based off of that feat as long as its reasonable. Only one trait can be applied to an item. The only mechanical effects are bardic lore and knowledge checks for identification. As for awarding treasure only 5% are likely to have a signature trait.

Right after the Magic Item Signature Traits section is the Bonded Items section that involves rituals. The Bonded Items do grant a mechanical effect after performing one of many rituals. You can even take that a step further by making the item a Truebond that grants an even greater effect.

So while the Magic Item Signature Traits and Bonded Items may not be mechanically as powerful as the Weapons of Legacy or artifacts they still add flavor and some mechanical effects.

[marcielle]

Here is a little something to add straight from DMG II 3.5 page 229-231. Magic Item Signature Traits...
Nerp. In fact it's the first timeI ever heard of it. You might be on to somethings.

[TurtleKing]

The benefit of Magic Item Signature Traits and Bonded Items is that you don't have to worry about being overpowered. So while the Weapons of Legacy and artifacts are great for the more high powered/epic games. The MIST and Bonded Items can be used at the lower levels to add spice without the party steamrolling. Plus some may not want the mechanical effect and more of just looking cool which is doable with MIST. The Bonded Items can be used for that favorite sword or armor or something else that you just won't part with that as been empowered in some way. You can also use Bonded Items as the precursory to it becoming a Weapon of Legacy. There are rules for making a Weapon of Legacy, but those tend to be because it as been around for a long time and seen alot of use. Basically the Bonded Item part can be the beginnings of it becoming a Weapon of Legacy.

[Person_Man]

I think that the simple answer is that when someone tells a story (or makes up a mythos) their main character only has one magic weapon, and it tends to be very powerful. In some cases, there may only be one magic weapon in the entire story, because it makes the weapon (and thus hopefully the weapon) more compelling and interesting. These weapons tend to be central to the protagonist's character, and/or a central plot element.

In most roleplaying games magic weapons can be purchased at the medieval Walmart. There are many of them, every character has access to them, and you trade in your old ones for your new ones on a regular basis. That's because roleplaying games generally include the regular acquisition of treasure as a Pavlovian reward system for combat and/or moving the plot along. Thus magic weapons tend to be less unique, and on average most of them are less powerful, because you're not going to give Mjolnir to a first level character.

[marcielle]

I dont' remember where I read this but I remember someone mentioning only letting players have 1 magic weapon each but allowing them to 'upgrade' them, thus putting a greater importance on the specicfic weapon and allowing lore and attachment to build itself.