Gestalt TWF - Opinions and suggestions on a build

[Sedall]

Hello! Long time reading in the forums, but first time poster. I'm interested to see what the board would suggest for a character I'm currently playing in a game. We're doing gestalt 3.5 with a few pathfinder options (mainly the core races and the feat progressions from PF, everything else 3.5.) Any books may be used, excluding the Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, and Magic of Incarnum. Not everyone has read into the systems for the classes inside, so we're just disallowing them for this game.

The homebrew setting has us in an archipelago where the majority of the inhabitants are elemental, aberration, or far realm outsiders. Level adjustment on races is acceptable, and is accomplished by Level Adjustment on one side, and monster HD (if applicable) on the other side.

Anyways, I want to use a two-bladed sword for my main weapon. I'm using a Spiker as my base race, and applying the Half-Farspawn template (It's always seemed cool, it kinda fit the area, and most of the party is doing comparable LA cheese. Spiker...eh. Non-standard race and with the template it seemed like it'd be the weirdest looking thing.) While not superb options for race and weapon choice, I liked the flavor of it. So far, the build is:

Fighter 1 / Half-Farspawn LA 1
Fighter 2 / Half-Farspawn LA 2
Fighter 3 / Half-Farspawn LA 3
Fighter 4 / Half-Farspawn LA 4
Fighter 5 / Scout 1
Warshaper 1 / Scout 2
Warshaper 2 / Scout 3
Warshaper 3 / Scout 4
Warshaper 4 / Scout 5
Warshaper 5 / Scout 6
Dervish 1 / Scout 7
Dervish 2 / Scout 8
Dervish 3 / Scout 9
Dervish 4 / Tempest 1
Dervish 5 / Tempest 2
Dervish 6 / Tempest 3
Dervish 7 / Tempest 4
Dervish 8 / Tempest 5
Dervish 9 / Scout 10
Dervish 10 / Scout 11



I'm sure many already have the :confused: look. It's only a draft so far. To justify so far, I mainly focused on the left side and now am trying to work on ideas for the right. I took fighter to 5 for the feat, instead of going immediately into Warshaper, (Which just fit the 5 levels left over from Fighter 5 and Dervish 10, and always was a class I wanted to try but never had room for. Plus, Half-farspawn meant easy entry) Scout just seemed to go with Dervish, and while I hear poor things of Tempest, it was the best idea I had at the time. The right side of my build is lacking. And it's gestalt, we're supposed to be all about the cheese.

So, I'm basically just looking for thoughts on feats and class suggestions to improve what I have so far. I'm probably going to move Warshaper to the right side of the build so I can get to Dervish faster, but other than that. Feel free to suggest things for me. The only things I'm attached to are the race, weapon, and Warshaper (and Warshaper only unless there's a magnificent alternative).

And as a final thought, do I take Two-Wep or Multiattack with this template? I don't want to be RAW boned from class entry.

[veven]

You may want to find a way to move and full attack at the same time (to maximize skirmish damage). I know Tempest gets it's two-weapon spring attack ability but that still is only two attacks when you'll eventually have six or seven in a round, four or five of which will be missing out on that lovely skirmish damage. Typical methods of achieving this or the Knowledge Devotion feat (only functions once/day for 1 minute unless you take it again or have turning attempts) or the Spirit Lion totem Barbarian alternative class feature (which may not be a bad idea if you can make the flavor fit your plan. I smell one couple too many fighter levels in there anyways.)

Edit: silly brain forgot about Dervish Dance. Either of my suggestions would still be very worth while though. Even with Dervish Dance.

[Joshinthemosh]

You may want to find a way to move and full attack at the same time (to maximize skirmish damage). I know Tempest gets it's two-weapon spring attack ability but that still is only two attacks when you'll eventually have six or seven in a round, four or five of which will be missing out on that lovely skirmish damage. Typical methods of achieving this or the Knowledge Devotion feat (only functions once/day for 1 minute unless you take it again or have turning attempts) or the Spirit Lion totem Barbarian alternative class feature (which may not be a bad idea if you can make the flavor fit your plan. I smell one couple too many fighter levels in there anyways.)

Edit: silly brain forgot about Dervish Dance. Either of my suggestions would still be very worth while though. Even with Dervish Dance.


Emphasis mine

Ummm huh? Are you thinking of Travel Devotion? Knowledge Devotion has absolutley nothing to do with Turn Undead attempts.

In regards to the OP

Can you use the Pathfinder Ranger instead of the Fighter(I'm assuming 3.5)? It will give you free feats, you don't have to qualify for the TWF tree(at least the first one), more skill points, and more.

And is the DM cool with two PrC at the same time? RAW illegal but if he's cool full steam ahead.

[Philistine]

Hello! Long time reading in the forums, but first time poster. I'm interested to see what the board would suggest for a character I'm currently playing in a game. We're doing gestalt 3.5 with a few pathfinder options (mainly the core races and the feat progressions from PF, everything else 3.5.) Any books may be used, excluding the Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, and Magic of Incarnum. Not everyone has read into the systems for the classes inside, so we're just disallowing them for this game.

The homebrew setting has us in an archipelago where the majority of the inhabitants are elemental, aberration, or far realm outsiders. Level adjustment on races is acceptable, and is accomplished by Level Adjustment on one side, and monster HD (if applicable) on the other side.

Anyways, I want to use a two-bladed sword for my main weapon. I'm using a Spiker as my base race, and applying the Half-Farspawn template (It's always seemed cool, it kinda fit the area, and most of the party is doing comparable LA cheese. Spiker...eh. Non-standard race and with the template it seemed like it'd be the weirdest looking thing.) While not superb options for race and weapon choice, I liked the flavor of it. So far, the build is:

Fighter 1 / Half-Farspawn LA 1
Fighter 2 / Half-Farspawn LA 2
Fighter 3 / Half-Farspawn LA 3
Fighter 4 / Half-Farspawn LA 4
Fighter 5 / Scout 1
Warshaper 1 / Scout 2
Warshaper 2 / Scout 3
Warshaper 3 / Scout 4
Warshaper 4 / Scout 5
Warshaper 5 / Scout 6
Dervish 1 / Scout 7
Dervish 2 / Scout 8
Dervish 3 / Scout 9
Dervish 4 / Tempest 1
Dervish 5 / Tempest 2
Dervish 6 / Tempest 3
Dervish 7 / Tempest 4
Dervish 8 / Tempest 5
Dervish 9 / Scout 10
Dervish 10 / Scout 11



I'm sure many already have the :confused: look. It's only a draft so far. To justify so far, I mainly focused on the left side and now am trying to work on ideas for the right. I took fighter to 5 for the feat, instead of going immediately into Warshaper, (Which just fit the 5 levels left over from Fighter 5 and Dervish 10, and always was a class I wanted to try but never had room for. Plus, Half-farspawn meant easy entry) Scout just seemed to go with Dervish, and while I hear poor things of Tempest, it was the best idea I had at the time. The right side of my build is lacking. And it's gestalt, we're supposed to be all about the cheese.

So, I'm basically just looking for thoughts on feats and class suggestions to improve what I have so far. I'm probably going to move Warshaper to the right side of the build so I can get to Dervish faster, but other than that. Feel free to suggest things for me. The only things I'm attached to are the race, weapon, and Warshaper (and Warshaper only unless there's a magnificent alternative).

And as a final thought, do I take Two-Wep or Multiattack with this template? I don't want to be RAW boned from class entry.

What will the starting level of the game be? There's little point in giving you a 20-level build whose abilities all start to converge to glorious synergy at level 17 if you're starting at level 3, for instance.

Anyway, some thoughts:
- Have you considered dipping Barbarian for Pounce (ACF in CChampion)? It may not be as sexy as Dervish or Tempest, but it's a lot more efficient.
- Consider stopping after only 3 levels of Warshaper - the last two levels really don't buy you much.
- I'd seriously consider adding Ranger levels and the Swift Hunter feat (CScoundrel), making that the backbone of one side of the build - this gives you more Skirmish, and makes it applicable to more kinds of opponents. Not to mention that Ranger can give you the TWF feats needed for Tempest without having to buy ridiculous amounts of Dex. (I'd also grab the Ranger ACF that lets you add Tumble to your class skill list in place of Ride.)
- How badly do you want both Dervish and Tempest in the build? Especially with Warshaper also in the mix, this is going to require that you gestalt 2 PrCs at some point in the character's career, which is RAW illegal (so make sure you run it by your DM for approval first).

Consider:
Scout 1 // Half-Farspawn LA 1 (FEAT: Dodge)
Ranger 1 // Half-Farspawn LA 2
Ranger 2 // Half-Farspawn LA 3 (Combat Style: TWF, FEAT: Mobility)
Scout 2 // Half-Farspawn LA 4
Scout 3 // Barbarian 1 (ACF: Pounce, ACF: Whirling Frenzy)
Scout 4 // Barbarian 2 (FEAT: Weapon Focus (double sword), BONUS FEAT: Swift Hunter, ACF: Imp. Trip)
Scout 5 // Barbarian 3
Ranger 3 // Warshaper 1
Ranger 4 // Warshaper 2 (FEAT: Combat Expertise)
Ranger 5 // Warshaper 3
Ranger 6 // Dervish 1 (Combat Style: ITWF)
Ranger 7 // Dervish 2 (FEAT: open)
Ranger 8 // Dervish 3 (Spring Attack)
Ranger 9 // Dervish 4
Ranger 10 // Dervish 5 (FEAT: open)
Ranger 11 // Dervish 6 (Combat Style: GTWF)
Ranger 12 // Dervish 7
Ranger 13 // Dervish 8 (FEAT: open)
Ranger 14 // Dervish 9
Ranger 15 // Dervish 10