Campaign setting idea

[Asp]

Hi all. I thought I would post my idea for a campaign setting here, and would be interested in your opinions.

So, here's what I'm calling Nightfall

It's been two hundred years since the sun was extinguished, since Pelor fought the lord of night, and fell to earth. The Dawnstar hangs over the city of Redmoon, a beacon of light in a world otherwise dark, and the seat of the Pelorites' power. For perhaps twenty years, his priests were without power, until the prophet Brennan found the Dawnstar, and spoke to him. Pelor and his saints are now venerated again in all of the area illuminated by the artifact. (about a twenty mile radius)

And the players know this story, they know it all too well, having been born and brought up in the light. Because of their abilities they have been chosen as missionaries, to take Pelor's message of light and hope out into the great darkness. I'm leaving this as a player choice as to if this is actually their intent or not, but they'll be instructed to keep an eye on each other, paranoia style.

In the darkness a great deal has changed in two hundred years. The elves are in crisis, their unions producing only stillbirths or hideous dark-skinned mutants (drow). The gnomes have become recluse, secreting themselves in a single great mechanized city under a mountain range. The Orcs, united for the first time under a single warlord, are on the verge of civilisation. Sentient undead squabble over much of the remaining territory, having no fear of daylight any more, and, of course, giant monsters roam more-or-less unchecked.

[JonestheSpy]

Sounds compelling though heavy on the grimdark. You really should have a reason why all life on the planet isn't extinguished, though. No sun=everything freezing+no photosynthesis=that's all folks.

[Yora]

Everything would have to rely on underground heat. Lava wouls be pretty much the only energy source, as after 200 years all wood within reach of settlements would have been used up long ago.

[JonestheSpy]

Lava doesn't make up for the lack of photosynthesis.

Really, I'm sure there's plenty of magical ways to justify non-planetdeath, I'm just suggesting the OP put some thought into coming up with a good one.

[Suicidal Charge]

Lava doesn't make up for the lack of photosynthesis.

Really, I'm sure there's plenty of magical ways to justify non-planetdeath, I'm just suggesting the OP put some thought into coming up with a good one.

Do underground plants generate oxygen? Also, I like it.

[Yora]

Lava just produces (or emanates) heat. Which is not enough to sustain advanced organisms, but it's a start for single-celled organism, fungi, and molds, which are based on minerals and elements found in the air. Those can serve as food for insects or small plants, which in turn can feed animals and humanoids. Life can theoretically based on almost all substances; oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen work well; but in any case you need a constant source of energy to sustain the process, which can be either sunlight, or geothermal heat. Or you could create magical devices that generate heat from something else, like magical nuclear power plants. Since it's magic, it could even generate energy from air.

[averagejoe]

Portals to the elemental plane of fire, or captured fire elementals, could work as well.

[Suicidal Charge]

Lava just produces (or emanates) heat. Which is not enough to sustain advanced organisms, but it's a start for single-celled organism, fungi, and molds, which are based on minerals and elements found in the air. Those can serve as food for insects or small plants, which in turn can feed animals and humanoids. Life can theoretically based on almost all substances; oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen work well; but in any case you need a constant source of energy to sustain the process, which can be either sunlight, or geothermal heat. Or you could create magical devices that generate heat from something else, like magical nuclear power plants. Since it's magic, it could even generate energy from air.

Yeah, but what will the humans breath?

EDIT: Oops, missed fungi... ignore this, then.

[Yora]

Though now I really wonder how long the existing nutrients in the world would last when all photosynthesis suddenly stops. All the little critters probably won't last long when there's no growing season come spring, and the predators would have to start eating each other pretty soon once everything else is starved (and then frozen).
No idea how the oceans would be doing, but the land would probably be lifeless within a year at the most.

But with all the animals near the surface probably also dying pretty soon because the oceans start to freeze, the deep seas would have a massive increase of organic matter floating down from above, which could lead to an explosion of life on the ocean floors for a couple of years or even decades. But with no more nutrients from dead animals at the surface, this would come to an end as well, leaving only the tiny worms and bacteria that live in thermic vents and eat minerals.

[Traab]

Do we really need to bring real world geophysics into a campaign with the walking dead? The world survives through the blessings of the gods. There, thats the justification. Just because the sun is gone, doesnt mean the gods would let the whole world die off. And in a world where miracles happen with regularity, the rules of physics and nature are constantly told to take a hike, its not that much of a stretch to proclaim that the gods are taking a more direct hand in keeping the world itself alive.

I like the basic idea. If I may suggest, crystals under the right conditions can grow, so why not go with this for a plan? The Dawnstar is a giant crystal, and one of the main story missions could be for the party to transport fragments of the Dawnstar to various areas, and civilizations, in an attempt to bring the light back to the world piece by piece. They try to reach the elves, the gnomes, whatever. Some races are happy to get it, others just want to take it for themselves, and then of course there is the undead, who want to stop your party from succeeding.

[Asp]

Firstly, thank you all for the discussion on my pitch, I've found it quite helpful.

A few points that I had already considered and my ideas on them, for general interest.

-The area outside of the light would be in perpetual extreme cold, probably using the Frostburn supplement for a lot of the terrain.

-The orcs for the most part survived by hunting and eventually farming creatures with an innate connection to the plane of fire (Remorhaz etc.)
Most of the other races that I'm considering including do make their homes underground.



I'll admit that I hadn't considered the problem of air running out. Probably the first thing that comes to mind is that the number of creatures and plants respiring dropped off at about the same time as all the photosynthesis. That said, there's something that appeals to me a great deal about the gnomes having built what are essentially planet dialysis machines beneath their city, ready for the day when the sun returns.


@Traab, I like your idea about the characters bringing shards of dawn out into the darkness with them. I was considering giving each of the characters a tiny piece of the dawn star as essentially a magic holy symbol, and this idea works well with that.
I also remember crystal singers of Ballybran rather fondly, so perhaps the items will have resonance with music/each other.

[DabblerWizard]

Agreeing with Traab, too much of a reality focus will do no one good.

Just to point how how absurd this line of reasoning can get, consider that a lack of a sun means one of two things: (1) The planet has stopped rotating, leading to a ice world on one side, and a molten world on the other; (2) There IS NO SUN!... this would mean that we're dealing with a rogue planet aimlessly drifting in outer space... joy of joys.

[Traab]

Agreeing with Traab, too much of a reality focus will do no one good.

Just to point how how absurd this line of reasoning can get, consider that a lack of a sun means one of two things: (1) The planet has stopped rotating, leading to a ice world on one side, and a molten world on the other; (2) There IS NO SUN!... this would mean that we're dealing with a rogue planet aimlessly drifting in outer space... joy of joys.

If the sun were to suddenly vanish, wouldnt the sudden change in orbit do massive damage to the planet? Or would the effect be gradual enough to allow the lack of heat to turn the earth into a larger version of pluto?


-The area outside of the light would be in perpetual extreme cold, probably using the Frostburn supplement for a lot of the terrain.


I just had a cool mental image of ice covered trees in a dark landscape. Leaves frozen still on their branches.

[averagejoe]

Agreeing with Traab, too much of a reality focus will do no one good.

Just to point how how absurd this line of reasoning can get, consider that a lack of a sun means one of two things: (1) The planet has stopped rotating, leading to a ice world on one side, and a molten world on the other; (2) There IS NO SUN!... this would mean that we're dealing with a rogue planet aimlessly drifting in outer space... joy of joys.

(3) The mass of the sun is all there, but it's no longer burning. Or, fusion-ing. You know what I mean. We're talking about something gods did, so who knows.


If the sun were to suddenly vanish, wouldnt the sudden change in orbit do massive damage to the planet? Or would the effect be gradual enough to allow the lack of heat to turn the earth into a larger version of pluto?

The planet would keep going at the velocity it had when it felt the gravitational change. Which is to say, the planet would suddenly zing off. I'm not convinced this would cause any large-scale changes though, beyond the sun being gone.

[Solaris]

The planet would keep going at the velocity it had when it felt the gravitational change. Which is to say, the planet would suddenly zing off. I'm not convinced this would cause any large-scale changes though, beyond the sun being gone.

Yes. Inertia. The planet wouldn't change because of a lack of gravity, it would stop changing.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Sounds compelling though heavy on the grimdark. You really should have a reason why all life on the planet isn't extinguished, though. No sun=everything freezing+no photosynthesis=that's all folks.

A good point.

If I was DMing this, that logical problem would be part of the mystery. Clerics and Wizards and the like search to answer that question, but really, no one wants to know because no one wants to jinx it.

[Traab]

The planet would keep going at the velocity it had when it felt the gravitational change. Which is to say, the planet would suddenly zing off. I'm not convinced this would cause any large-scale changes though, beyond the sun being gone.

Unless it got caught up in the gravity of another heavenly body. Or gods forbid, COLLIDING with another heavenly body. I picture the solar system as a series of magnets all pulling at each other at a specific distance, perfectly balanced. Each magnet is pulling on the others, and being pulled on BY them. Remove one of those magnets from the set, and who knows what the final outcome would be.

[averagejoe]

Yes. Inertia. The planet wouldn't change because of a lack of gravity, it would stop changing.

Well, it would no longer be accelerating around the planet, sure. The sun's gravity does have some influence on how things go on earth, but it's generally less significant than the moon's. I dunno, I don't feel like I have a good reason for either saying the lack of sun would cause no changes (beyond those caused by the sun going out) or that it would.

[DabblerWizard]

If the sun were to suddenly vanish, wouldnt the sudden change in orbit do massive damage to the planet? Or would the effect be gradual enough to allow the lack of heat to turn the earth into a larger version of pluto?

If we're assuming that the sun itself disappears, then as averagejoe suggested, the planet itself may follow a trajectory in whatever direction it was heading prior to the Sun's disappearance.

Wind patterns, tidal forces, and climate changes could come about as a result of the missing extra-planar pull that's normally exerted on the planet from the Sun.

The Moon's eventual collision with the Earth may speed up significantly as the Sun likely has a part to play in its slow decline. Now, the Earth's gravity is pulling the moon to the planet, with no counterbalancing major object to counteract the Earth's pull.

There's certainly some chance for planet collision as the other planets in the solar system are perhaps in a free trajectory.

Finally, I wonder whether planets like Jupiter or Saturn have enough gravity to realign the other planets into a orbit around THEM. I guess the real question is, how will the planets in the solar system impact each other?

Venus and Earth share a fairly similar gravitational pull, and can be relatively close to each other, so I imagine their chances of impact may be greater than some other scenarios.

[LibraryOgre]

If you're curious about the effect of a planet being taken away from it's home star, look for the Fritz Leiber story "A Pail of Air". (http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0743498747/0743498747___6.htm)

In fact, you should be looking for lots of Fritz Leiber stuff. Because, in many ways, his Fafhrd and Grey Mouser stories are D&D.

[Solaris]

If you're curious about the effect of a planet being taken away from it's home star, look for the Fritz Leiber story "A Pail of Air". (http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0743498747/0743498747___6.htm)

I remember that one. Good story.

[Vemynal]

I think it sounds awesome

[averagejoe]

If we're assuming that the sun itself disappears, then as averagejoe suggested, the planet itself may follow a trajectory in whatever direction it was heading prior to the Sun's disappearance.

Wind patterns, tidal forces, and climate changes could come about as a result of the missing extra-planar pull that's normally exerted on the planet from the Sun.

The Moon's eventual collision with the Earth may speed up significantly as the Sun likely has a part to play in its slow decline. Now, the Earth's gravity is pulling the moon to the planet, with no counterbalancing major object to counteract the Earth's pull.

There's certainly some chance for planet collision as the other planets in the solar system are perhaps in a free trajectory.

Finally, I wonder whether planets like Jupiter or Saturn have enough gravity to realign the other planets into a orbit around THEM. I guess the real question is, how will the planets in the solar system impact each other?

Venus and Earth share a fairly similar gravitational pull, and can be relatively close to each other, so I imagine their chances of impact may be greater than some other scenarios.

That's the thing, though, the suns gravity isn't felt that much here on earth; certainly not nearly as much as the moon's. I severely doubt that the sun is what's keeping the moon in orbit; the moon's own energy is.

Of course, all this assumes that in the campaign world the sun isn't just a hole in the big blanket that covers the sky or something.

[Traab]

That's the thing, though, the suns gravity isn't felt that much here on earth; certainly not nearly as much as the moon's. I severely doubt that the sun is what's keeping the moon in orbit; the moon's own energy is.

Of course, all this assumes that in the campaign world the sun isn't just a hole in the big blanket that covers the sky or something.

Or the sun gods chariot.

[Randel]

"Remember the day well, little mortals, for it was your last. From now on, the night will last FOREVER!"

With those words, the Lord of Night raised his hands and moved the great full moon across the sky. The gears of the cosmos that kept the sun and moon and stars in their orbits cried out in anguish and screeched as the endless cycle of day and night were brought to an end. Man, elves, and all creatures of the earth looked up to see the moon grow larger and move itself infront of the sun, blocking out its light.

Darkness fell...

and an endless myriad of stars appeared in the sky.

The Lord of Night sneered down at his fallen opponent. For too long, Pelor had hoarded the sky to himself, his absurd shining sun overshadowing all the stars in the sky and bombarding the creatures of the earth with its crude radiation.

Those people down there... so many of them worshiped the sun and made sacrifices to sun gods in some ill-thought desire to see its light. Singing glorious praise of its light and warmth while conveniently ignoring every drought, sunstroke, forest fire or storm that resulted from its irresponsible shining.

Things will be much better this way.




A few ideas:

1). Instead of physically making the sun vanish, the Lord of Night just moves the moon between the sun and earth to create a perpetual solar eclipse. This orbit might not be physically possible without constant adjustment, so he has some kind of epic or divine level magic at work to constantly keep the moon in this position. This magic needs a special focus somewhere or maybe required him to make an alteration to the mechanisms that move the planets. Whatever the cause, if somebody were to figure out what he did then they could undo it and put the sun back in its rightful position.

2). He also has plans for the world and letting life live on without the sun. Werewolves and some other creatures might already be getting energy from the moon (lets say that the moon radiates a type of magical energy similar to the sun... its just that most plants find it easier to get energy from sunlight than moonlight or sunlight messes with a creatures ability to absorb moonlight).

With the sun out of the way, various existing plants and animals like lunar fungus or slimes are coming out and enjoying the surface. The Lord of Night is already working with the various harvest gods and goddesses to create crops and plants that grow in the moonlight. Creatures adapted to the night are finding themselves in their element while those who desire the sun are hopelessly lost and will likely become extinct. This change will result in alot of life forms going extinct but the Lord of Night will have them replaced with forms that can survive and thrive in the night.

3. Without the sun, the night sky is much easier to see and the stars and constellations are highly visible. Some folks have adapted to this and can navigate by the stars or see better in star and moonlight. Also the moon is always full (also a magical effect) so we have moonlight to see by. There could be an improved ability to use the stars as a magical focus or something.

4. The Lord of Night was werewolves working for him. Since they get power from the moon then he demands their obediance and can grant them greater power if they please him (lets say all werewolves get their powers but those who swear loyalty to him get some extra magical boosts to their abilities. Clerics and paladins get spellcasting abilities, werewolves get extra strength and regeneration). There can be werewolves who hate the Lord of Night (due to him changing the whole world) but other swear loyalty to him regardless. The great thing about having an army of lycanthropes in a world in perpetual night is that any old dirt farmer can become a new recruit with just a bite.

4. Oozes and other creatures normally hurt by the sun are coming out of dungeons and caves and are loosed upon the world. These are a growing threat to anyone without the means to deal with them. The Lord of Night has armies to protect those who worship him. Add in his werewolf army and many low level commoners have the choice between fighting against the Lord of Night and get eaten by oozes, undead, orcs, or whatever or they can join him and become werewolves who regenerate from all wounds.

5. The Orcs are all banding together for strength. They don't like the Lord of Night, they don't like how all the plants and animals they hunted and gathered from are now dying off, they don't like all they new monsters running around (though they can be tasty once you prepare them properly and add a whole mess of ketchup), and frankly they don't like all those other races who abused them before the eternal night. Oh, and the eternal night thing is just plain annoying because it completely throws off their sense of time. Minutes turn into hours, days turn into weeks, weeks turn out to be yesterday... ugh, its completely bloody impossible to schedule or organize anything because every orcs sleep cycle basically revolves around how bored they are or their access to caffeine.

[Radar]

The Moon's eventual collision with the Earth may speed up significantly as the Sun likely has a part to play in its slow decline. Now, the Earth's gravity is pulling the moon to the planet, with no counterbalancing major object to counteract the Earth's pull.
No outside gravitational field has any significant influence on Earth-Moon system. Wheter they will collide or not is entirely dependant on their relative motion. Still, this setting doesn't need too much physics in it.

Interensting possible plot-twist, that would fit the setting well: Pelor - the burning Hate (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558798/Pelor,_the_Burning_Hate).

[GoblinArchmage]

Agreeing with Traab, too much of a reality focus will do no one good.

I, too, agree. This is a fantasy world, and a pretty cool one I might add. Real world physics and biology and such don't exist in such a world.

[averagejoe]

No outside gravitational field has any significant influence on Earth-Moon system. Wheter they will collide or not is entirely dependant on their relative motion. Still, this setting doesn't need too much physics in it.

Interensting possible plot-twist, that would fit the setting well: Pelor - the burning Hate (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558798/Pelor,_the_Burning_Hate).

But why would Pelor block out the sun? Evil or not, he's still a sun god.

Unless... a good god blocked out the sun because it was the only way to stop Pelor from gaining enough support to ruin everyone's good time.

[Radar]

But why would Pelor block out the sun? Evil or not, he's still a sun god.

Unless... a good god blocked out the sun because it was the only way to stop Pelor from gaining enough support to ruin everyone's good time.
The latter option obviously. Let's say, that the Lord of The Night (or however is he/she named) discovered Pelor's true nature and his nefarious plans. He immediatly fought with Pelor and brought him down. In order to cut his power, Lord of The Night had to hide/block out/destroy/extinguish the Sun (maybe even Pelor is the Sun and The Dawnstar is his prison or a crippled form). Now (toghether with other gods) he is focused on making the planet livable without the Sun, which still requires a lot of work and effort.

Meanwhile mortals are oblivious to the true nature of those world-changing events and think, that Lord of The Night went crazy and some of them are trying to bring the Sun back. Now imagine the gods surprise and horror, when a group of mismatched and constantly squabbling individuals menages to do just that.