10th level gestalt

[Paganboy28]

I'm currently playing a 10th level Archivist/Wizard. Whilst it sounds great on paper, the actual paper work and remembering everything, including racials, is really annoying!

So I was thinking of the style of play that I like and the most fun character I have played was a Changling Rogue-Warlock (multi-classed). A sort of agent of chaos, being sneaky theif, spy, etc

With this in mind I was thinking of taking that and just uberising it.

So how about this as an idea:

Doppleganger as the race. LA4 - gives me my shape-shifting, detect thoughts, pretty good stats, and armour.

Not sure what classes apart from warlock to put with it though. I could put the warlock on the "free" side to go warlock 10, or put it on the doppleganger side and make it warlock 6 and have something else as 10th level.

Do I go for the other side being rogue or fighter or is there something better to fit the sneaky, agent of chaos theme?

[faceroll]

What if you went changeling from eberron (no LA/HD) and psychic rogue on one side?

[Paganboy28]

What if you went changeling from eberron (no LA/HD) and psychic rogue on one side?

How would that work? Not familiar with the psychic rogue.

[faceroll]

How would that work? Not familiar with the psychic rogue.

Changeling gets you at will alter self for turning into humanoids. Psychic rogue is here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b

You get a little bit of sneak attack, and a very few number of powers known.

Of course, since it's gestalt, you could just go rogue//psion. That gets you sneakiness and pretty neat powers, but not a lot of bookkeeping.

Another option for sneaky is beguiler. Again, not very much bookkeeping, but you still get to do fun stuff with spells. Beguiler is like a spellcasty rogue but without sneak attack. I would consider putting Duskblade on the other side. That way you can sneak, fight, and talk **** like no one's business. Wonderful int synergy, too. Well, skills and spells.

[Paganboy28]

I like the warlock class as I like "at will" abilities.

Changeling would be good, though isn't a Doppleganger better and since I am gestalt I can "afford" to have a LA 4. Plus the Doppleganger gets good stat bonuses which are better than a Changeling. Detect thoughts could be useful for bluffing as well.

Beguiler would be interesting but thats more arcane stuff. Psionics could be useful though going Warlock//Psion might leave me a bit lacking. Or I could use the Psion for buffing myself.

I'm not too interested in attack solely, also interested in getting in and out of places and get what I want without getting caught.

The Rogue gets me lots of skill points which is very useful for lots of things.

I could potentially go Chameleon?

[faceroll]

Doppleganger is ECL8. Don't forget about its 4 craptacular HD. It's also not "free" because you're playing gestalt. You're sacrificing a lot of potential everything for two easily replicatable SLAs on a HORRIBLE chassis.

I would much rather have 8 levels of class abilities and skill points.

You could try beguiler//warlock. Warlocks don't really need charisma, just pick powers without saves. That gets you good skills and a lot of spells that can be used to do stealth stuff.

rogue//warlock is probably your best bet, but both those classes do well when you have more of them, not less. Warlock, because of its pseudo-caster nature, and rogue, due to skill points. Which means setting 8 levels on fire for two abilities just isn't worth it.

+2 to all ability scores for an ECL of 8 is also not really worth it.

I would either look for a better race, or template a changeling, if you really want to fill one side of the gestalt up with monster levels.

Savage Species progression for Succubus, with warlock on the other side, may get you what you want.

[*.*.*.*]

Ranger//Beguiler is pretty HOSS

Full BAB
Good spellcasting
6+ Int skills with Int based casting for Beguiler
Plenty of good ACFs for Ranger
Beguiler has some good class features and can rock the house with rainbow savant
All good saves(I think)

Ranger//Warlock would be slightly less so

Full Bab
All good saves
Mad(need every stat)
Keeps good skills
I believe you can take archery feats for your eldritch blast~

[Paganboy28]

Nope, has to be warlock and something.

[begooler]

Rogue, in addition to meshing with the flavor you have described, will give you sneak attack that you can add to your eldritch blast.
Alternatively- sneak attack fighter (the variant in Unearthed Arcana) will do that with full BAB.

Spelltheif can also be fun. You'd get the sneak attack, some more utilities, and the little bit of spell casting they have is charisma based.

[Paganboy28]

Hmm spellthief could be interesting. Follow the theme of theif into the arcane. Not only do I "borrow" your items but I nick your spells to.

Is the Spellthief any good though as a class?

Does it synergise with the warlock well?

[deuxhero]

I think it is OK, but not amazing.

Hmm... Sneaky Class//Warlock?

Sneak Attack fighter Glaive Lock?


SA Fighter is UA/SRD, trade bonus feats for SA as Rogue, can explicitly be combined with Thug Fighter for skill points and skills despite both losing their first level bonus feat)

Full BAB, SA, multiple EB equivalents a turn, D10 HD. I don't think most of the Warlock Invocations actually require gestures (EB at least does not) that would prevent them from working in heavy armor, though heavy armor is lost with Thug.

[Paganboy28]

Spellthief looks a bit poop to be honest after reading about it.

I was considering taking the Dragonfire Adept instead of the Warlock, but I think i rebuke that choice and stick with Warlock.

If I am going Changeling then does that open up the option to take the Recaster PrC in conjunction with the Warlock?

Is the Cabinet Trickster worth taking?

What about the Arcane Trickster PrC?

Would Scout or Ninja be better than Rogue?

[deuxhero]

Gestalt bans dual progressions. I think AT is included in that.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Warlock 20 on one side of the build.
Ranger 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10/ Ranger 5 on the other side of the build.

Enlightened Spirit doesn't progress the Eldritch Blast class feature's effective level, it just adds bonus dice to it (hence no increased caster level) so it will stack when taken along side Warlock. It gives you quite a few specific invocations that you would otherwise have to spend your limited supply of Warlock invocations to gain the effects of, particularly flight. Finally, it gives you a Greater shape invocation at the 5th level, which is at your 10th Warlock level, thus your new invocation known at Warlock 10 can be a Greater invocation. You'll know one fewer Lesser and one additional Greater invocation, but you save yourself from having to spend a Lesser on Fell Flight so realistically you lose nothing, and have an extra Greater Invocation a level earlier than you would normally be able to access them.

I would strongly suggest using the Mystic Ranger variant from Dragon 336, which delays your Ranger bonus feats by one level (except Track), Favored Enemies are gained at 2/8/14/20, and you lose proficiency in melee martial weapons, but you gain greatly improved spellcasting. Mystic Ranger gets 0-level spells at 1st level, 1st level spells at 2nd, 2nd level spells at 4th, 3rd level spells at 6th, 4th level spells at 8th, and 5th level spells at 10th level. With the feat Sword of the Arcane Order from Champions of Valor you'll be able to prepare and cast Wizard spells from your Ranger spell slots (and cast them as divine ranger spells). Magical Training in PGtF will give you a spellbook and the ability to scribe new spells into it in order to prepare them in your Ranger spell slots. The Wild Shape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) variant from UA is also good to use, you could take the form of an animal and still use your Eldritch Blast and other invocations unhindered, plus the Fast Movement would increase your fly speed from Celestial Flight since it's equal to your land speed.

[Paganboy28]

How does Enlightened Spirit fit with the theme?

[IthroZada]

Warlock//Factotum? It sounds a bit MAD, but depending on your invocations chosen, you don't need Charisma nearly as much.

[Salanmander]

One thing that I've seen be quite successful is a Pixie (LA +4, no racial HD) Rogue//Warlock. For the +4 LA you get a massive dex and mental stat bonuses, small size, a fly speed, good DR and SR, and (the biggie) /permanent/ greater invisibility.

All day 5d6 rays with 3d6 sneak attack reliably is fairly good as a main attack mode. It scales linearly, which is bad, but it's a super reliable, being a ranged flat-footed touch attack (unless they can see invisible), which is good. You also have your full normal compliment of warlock abilities, thanks to gestalt.

[faceroll]

One thing that I've seen be quite successful is a Pixie (LA +4, no racial HD) Rogue//Warlock. For the +4 LA you get a massive dex and mental stat bonuses, small size, a fly speed, good DR and SR, and (the biggie) /permanent/ greater invisibility.

All day 5d6 rays with 3d6 sneak attack reliably is fairly good as a main attack mode. It scales linearly, which is bad, but it's a super reliable, being a ranged flat-footed touch attack (unless they can see invisible), which is good. You also have your full normal compliment of warlock abilities, thanks to gestalt.

Yeah, I just came back here to say go with pixie rogue6//warlock 10. I'm DMing for a pixie warlock//rogue, and the player's having a ton of fun with it. Improved invis and free flight makes choosing your warlock powers much easier. Chain eldritch blast is really cool, because you get sneak attack dice on all your bounces.

It's a pretty boss gestalt, and will pretty much do what you want it to do.