PDA

View Full Version : [3.5 Core] Fixing the wizard (PEACH).



Yitzi
2011-07-03, 10:11 AM
Wizards are generally seen as the most broken class out there. So the goal here is to create a set of house rules that, while not making them useless, will keep them down to the point where they can't rule the game. (Essentially, I'm aiming for tier 3 here, assuming capable opponents.) Naturally, it's a somewhat large task, even when restricted to core, so I'll be breaking it up into different sections. Most of the fix consists of changing certain overpowered spells, so I'm bolding the changed parts for easier analysis. Where an explanation seems necessary, I'll provide one. So...

I. Non-spell changes

-There are no bracers of armor; furthermore, armor enhancement bonuses cannot exceed +5 for non-epic items. It is, however, possible to enchant clothing (anything subject to Magic Vestment) with all enchantments that can be applied to armor. (Rationale: Wizards are supposed to be squishy in part due to the lack of armor. Letting bracers get 3 more enhancement bonus than armor breaks that at higher levels.)
-Groping to find an enemy can be made instead of an attack (such as one attack in a full attack sequence), rather than as a standard action.
-You cannot take 10 on spellcraft or knowledge checks. Either you know it or you don't. (Rationale: Besides that it makes more sense, it makes it a lot harder to reliably fill up your spellbook with every spell you might want.)
-Allies (particularly Called allies) are fixed; my approach to that is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204018).
-It is only possible to regain/prepare spells once per day, no matter how much you rest.
-No spell can give epic-level features (including DR/epic or regeneration/epic) unless the caster has at least 21 levels (or however many levels allows the appropriate type of epic features, if you're houseruling that) in classes that increase the spell’s caster level. (Caster level increases from other sources, such as items or the Spell Power class feature, don’t count.)
-Orange Prism Ioun stones don't stack
-Beads of Karma and similar effects only boost spells in classes that allow their use.


II. Divination

I've seen mixed claims about how much this contributes to making wizards overpowered...IMO better to be safe and apply the changes here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202633). Worst case scenario, it makes things closer to RAI anyway and removes some absurdities.

III. Polymorphing

Now we get to some of the really broken stuff. The first step, of course, is to strictly limit the available options; Core-only should suffice here; otherwise, requiring knowledge checks is advised. The second step is to weaken the spells themselves; I previously posted my plan here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204434).


IV. Combat Control

Another major contributer to the tier 1 status of wizards is their combat control options. Now, this definitely should be a strength of wizards, but not quite that strong, so I'm nerfing the more powerful options only:

Stinking Cloud:

Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates; see text
Spell Resistance: No

Stinking cloud creates a bank of fog like that created by fog cloud, except that the vapors are nauseating. Living creatures in the cloud become nauseated. This condition lasts as long as the creature is in the cloud and for 1d4+1 rounds after it leaves. (Roll separately for each nauseated character.) Any creature that succeeds on its save but remains in the cloud must continue to save each round on your turn.

A nauseated creature can take a move action to make another save against the spell; if successful, the nauseated effect is removed at the end of the creature's turn. This provides no protection against being further affected by the spell.

Creatures to poison are immune to Stinking Cloud; likewise, Delay Poison and Neutralize Poison can remove the nausea from one target and make it immune to Stinking Cloud, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws.

Stinking cloud can be made permanent with a permanency spell. A permanent stinking cloud dispersed by wind reforms in 10 minutes.
Material Component

A rotten egg or several skunk cabbage leaves.


With an easy counter and the ability to recover on your own, Stinking Cloud is no longer a game-breaker, being somewhat comparable to Hold Monster (only roughly, as it is a far weaker effect and targets what is usually a stronger save, but on the other hand is area-effect and lasts even if shrugged off, as well as being a lower level spell.)

Solid Fog:

Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Duration: 1 min./level
Spell Resistance: No

This spell functions like fog cloud, but in addition to obscuring sight, the solid fog is so thick that any creature attempting to move through it must make a DC 20 strength check. If successful, the creature can move up to half its speed in a straight line; if it moves less, it may make another strength check to move in another direction. If unsuccessful, the creature can move 5 feet in any direction, ending its move action.. In addition, it takes a -2 penalty on all melee attack and melee damage rolls. The vapors prevent effective ranged weapon attacks (except for magic rays and the like). A creature or object that falls into solid fog is slowed, so that each 10 feet of vapor that it passes through reduces falling damage by 1d6. A creature can’t take a 5-foot step while in solid fog.

However, unlike normal fog, only a severe wind (31+ mph) disperses these vapors, and it does so in 1 round.

Solid fog can be made permanent with a permanency spell. A permanent solid fog dispersed by wind reforms in 10 minutes.
Material Component

A pinch of dried, powdered peas combined with powdered animal hoof.


Solid Fog is difficult to move through, but it shouldn't be harder than something substantial like a Web.

Cloudkill:
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial; see text
Spell Resistance: No

This spell generates a bank of fog, similar to a fog cloud, except that its vapors are yellowish green and poisonous. These vapors automatically kill any living creature with 3 or fewer HD (no save). A living creature with 4 to 6 HD is slain unless it succeeds on a Fortitude save (in which case it takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud).

A living creature with 6 or more HD takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud (a successful Fortitude save halves this damage). Holding one’s breath doesn’t help, but creatures immune to poison, including from spells such as Delay Poison, are unaffected by the spell. Likewise, creatures resistant to poison receive the normal bonus on their saving throws.

Unlike a fog cloud, the cloudkill moves away from you at 10 feet per round, rolling along the surface of the ground.

Figure out the cloud’s new spread each round based on its new point of origin, which is 10 feet farther away from the point of origin where you cast the spell.

Because the vapors are heavier than air, they sink to the lowest level of the land, even pouring down den or sinkhole openings. It cannot penetrate liquids, nor can it be cast underwater.


A small change, but it does mean that cloudkill can be blocked with a level 2 spell or somewhat resisted with an antitoxin.

Wall of Force:

Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Effect: Wall whose area is up to one 10-ft. square/level
Duration: 1 round /level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

A wall of force spell creates an invisible wall of force over the course of 1 round (ending at the beginning of the caster's next turn). The wall cannot move, it is immune to damage of all kinds, and it is unaffected by most spells, including dispel magic. However, disintegrate immediately destroys it, as does a rod of cancellation, a sphere of annihilation, or a mage’s disjunction spell. Breath weapons and spells cannot pass through the wall in either direction, although dimension door, teleport, and similar effects can bypass the barrier. Inert gases such as air can likewise pass through the wall. It blocks ethereal creatures as well as material ones (though ethereal creatures can usually get around the wall by floating under or over it through material floors and ceilings). Gaze attacks can operate through a wall of force.

The caster can form the wall into a flat, vertical plane whose area is up to one 10-foot square per level. The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed, and must touch the location of the caster's finger. If its surface is broken by any object or creature when the spell is first cast or at any time before the wall fully comes into existence, the spell fails. Breaking an incomplete wall of force is a move action, or a free action in conjunction with a move, that can be performed by any creature that threatens the wall. Moving through the wall automatically breaks it. A momentary interruption, however, such as an arrow passing through the wall, will not break it; the wall will continue forming once the arrow passes

Wall of force can be made permanent with a permanency spell.
Material Component

A pinch of powder made from a clear gem.

Several changes here, mainly designed to make the spell next to useless for combat control, but still useful for turning a 1-round lead into a 9-round or more lead when running away.

The explicit rule that it allows air through (it probably does anyway, but better to have it explicit) isn't so significant here, but does make Forcecage less potentially dangerous.


Wall of Iron:

Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Effect: Iron wall whose area is up to one 5-ft. square/level; see text
Duration: One round
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No

You cause a flat, vertical iron wall to spring into being at the location of your outstretched finger over the course of the next round (ending at the beginning of the caster's next turn). The wall inserts itself into any surrounding nonliving material if its area is sufficient to do so. The wall cannot be conjured so that it occupies the same space as a creature or another object. The formation of the wall can be interrupted in the same manner as a Wall of Force. It must always be a flat plane, though you can shape its edges to fit the available space.

A wall of iron is 1 inch thick per four caster levels. You can double the wall’s area by halving its thickness. Each 5-foot square of the wall has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10. A section of wall whose hit points drop to 0 is breached. If a creature tries to break through the wall with a single attack, the DC for the Strength check is 25 + 2 per inch of thickness.

If you desire, the wall can be created vertically resting on a flat surface but not attached to the surface, so that it can be tipped over to fall on and crush creatures beneath it. The wall is 50% likely to tip in either direction if left unpushed. Creatures can push the wall in one direction rather than letting it fall randomly. A creature must make a DC 40 Strength check to push the wall over. Creatures with room to flee the falling wall may do so by making successful Reflex saves. Any Large or smaller creature that fails takes 10d6 points of damage. The wall cannot crush Huge and larger creatures.

Like any iron wall, this wall is subject to rust, perforation, and other natural phenomena.
Material Component

A small piece of sheet iron plus gold dust worth 50 gp (1 pound of gold dust).


Similar changes to Wall of Force, and for the same reasons.

Wall of Stone:

Conjuration (Creation) [Earth]
Level: Clr 5, Drd 6, Earth 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Effect: Stone wall whose area is up to one 5-ft. square/level (S)
Duration: One Round
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No

This spell creates a wall of rock at the location of your pointing finger that merges into adjoining rock surfaces. A wall of stone is 1 inch thick per four caster levels and composed of up to one 5-foot square per level. You can double the wall’s area by halving its thickness. The wall cannot be conjured so that it occupies the same space as a creature or another object. The wall takes one round (until the beginning of your next turn) to come into being, during which it can be disrupted just as a Wall of Force can.

Unlike a wall of iron, you can create a wall of stone in almost any shape you desire. The wall created need not be vertical, nor rest upon any firm foundation; however, it must merge with and be solidly supported by existing stone. It can be used to bridge a chasm, for instance, or as a ramp. For this use, if the span is more than 20 feet, the wall must be arched and buttressed. This requirement reduces the spell’s area by half. The wall can be crudely shaped to allow crenellations, battlements, and so forth by likewise reducing the area.

Like any other stone wall, this one can be destroyed by a disintegrate spell or by normal means such as breaking and chipping. Each 5-foot square of the wall has 15 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 8. A section of wall whose hit points drop to 0 is breached. If a creature tries to break through the wall with a single attack, the DC for the Strength check is 20 + 2 per inch of thickness.

Arcane Material Component

A small block of granite.


A similar change to the previous two. Note that because it now takes longer to come into being (necessary to prevent it from being too powerful at combat control) it can no longer trap mobile opponents.

Note that three wall spells were not changed: Wall of Fire isn't combat control at all, Wall of Ice is weak enough (due to its vulnerability to fire) that it doesn't need a fix, and Wall of Thorns isn't a wizard spell and so its fix does not belong here.

Transmute Rock to Mud:

Transmutation [Earth]
Level: Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: Up to two 10-ft. cubes/level (S)
Duration: Permanent; see text
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No

This spell turns natural, uncut or unworked rock of any sort into an equal volume of mud. Magical stone is not affected by the spell. The depth of the mud created cannot exceed 10 feet. A creature unable to levitate, fly, or otherwise free itself from the mud sinks until hip- or chest-deep, reducing its speed to 5 feet and causing a -2 penalty on attack rolls and AC. Brush thrown atop the mud can support creatures able to climb on top of it. Creatures large enough to walk on the bottom can wade through the area by making checks; if the check result is less than 20 the creature can only move 5', otherwise it can move 5' for every 5 full points by which the check result exceeds 10 (up to a maximum of half its speed).

If transmute rock to mud is cast upon the ceiling of a cavern or tunnel, the mud falls to the floor and spreads out in a pool at a depth of 5 feet. The falling mud and the ensuing cave-in deal 8d6 points of bludgeoning damage to anyone caught directly beneath the area, or half damage to those who succeed on Reflex saves.

Castles and large stone buildings are generally immune to the effect of the spell, since transmute rock to mud can’t affect worked stone and doesn’t reach deep enough to undermine such buildings’ foundations. However, small buildings or structures often rest upon foundations shallow enough to be damaged or even partially toppled by this spell.

The mud remains until a successful dispel magic or transmute mud to rock spell restores its substance—but not necessarily its form. Evaporation turns the mud to normal dirt over a period of days. The exact time depends on exposure to the sun, wind, and normal drainage.
Arcane Material Component

Clay and water.


This way, you can't keep a Tarrasque slowed just by turning the area into mud.

Forcecage:

Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: Barred cage (20-ft. cube) or windowless cell (10-ft. cube)
Duration: 2 hours/level (D)
Saving Throw: Reflex negates (see text)
Spell Resistance: No

This powerful spell brings into being an immobile, invisible cubical prison composed of either bars of force or solid walls of force (your choice).

Creatures within the area are caught and contained unless they are too big to fit inside, in which case the spell automatically fails. Teleportation and other forms of astral travel provide a means of escape, but the force walls or bars extend into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel.

Any creature adjacent to the forcecage at its casting, whether inside or outside, may make a reflex save to disrupt the cage as it forms, negating the spell. A creature farther away, up to half its movement, may make a reflex save to dive through the forming cage (disrupting it and ending prone on the opposite side of where the cage was to appear), but takes a -3 penalty to the save for every 5' it is away from the wall of the cage, and is dazed the following turn.

Like a wall of force spell, a forcecage resists dispel magic, but it is vulnerable to a disintegrate spell, and it can be destroyed by a sphere of annihilation or a rod of cancellation.
Barred Cage

This version of the spell produces a 20-foot cube made of bands of force (similar to a wall of force spell) for bars. The bands are a half-inch wide, with half-inch gaps between them. Any creature capable of passing through such a small space can escape; others are confined. You can’t attack a creature in a barred cage with a weapon unless the weapon can fit between the gaps. Even against such weapons (including arrows and similar ranged attacks), a creature in the barred cage has cover. All spells and breath weapons can pass through the gaps in the bars.
Windowless Cell

This version of the spell produces a 10-foot cube with no way in and no way out. Solid walls of force form its six sides.
Material Component

Ruby dust worth 5,000 gp, which is tossed into the air and disappears when you cast the spell.


Cost has been increased to make it something actually significant at higher levels, and it can now be blocked with a Reflex save...if you're next to the walls.



V. Save-or-X

A number of the most powerful spells are save-or-die, save-or-lose, etc.
The approach here won't be so much to weaken the existing spells as to strengthen the counters:

Protection from Evil

Abjuration[Good]
Level: Clr 1, Good 1, Pal 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: No; see text

This spell wards a creature from attacks by evil creatures, from mental control, and from summoned creatures. It creates a magical barrier around the subject at a distance of 1 foot. The barrier moves with the subject and has three major effects.

First, the subject gains a +2 deflection bonus to AC and a +2 resistance bonus on saves. Both these bonuses apply against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures.

Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that determine the subject's actions, such as dominate person, confusion, and irresistible dance). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect. If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast. This second effect works regardless of alignment.

Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature.
Arcane Material Component

A little powdered silver with which you trace a 3-foot -diameter circle on the floor (or ground) around the creature to be warded.

A few important mind-affecting spells aren't so clearly affected by PfE (and all the spells based off of it); this fixes that.

Death Ward

Abjuration
Level: Clr 4, Death 4, Drd 5, Pal 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The subject is immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects.

This spell doesn’t remove negative levels that the subject has already gained, nor does it affect the saving throw necessary 24 hours after gaining a negative level.

Death ward does not protect against other sorts of attacks even if those attacks might be lethal.


As the key defense against actual death effects, Death Ward should be comparable to the other two mid-level "nasty-spell blockers", namely Freedom of Movement and the Magic Circle spells. That means a longer duration and abjuration school.

Of course, that won't help against polymorphing and petrification, so...

Protect Form (new spell)

Abjuration
Level: Clr 4, Drd 5, Rgr 4, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or Touch
Target: You or creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The subject is immune to all harmful spells that change a target's form, such as baleful polymorph, flesh to stone, and polymorph any object.

The subject may choose to accept such a spell (for example, a beneficial casting of polymorph any object).

This spell doesn't remove form-changing spells that are already present.

Arcane Material Component



And all the protections in the world won't do that much good if they're easy to dispel, so one more spell:

Reinforce Ward (new spell)

Abjuration
Level: Clr 5
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Select one harmless divine spell of 4th level or lower from the abjuration school in effect on the subject. The DC to dispel the chosen spell is increased by 10 (to 21+caster level).

Reinforce Ward cannot be dispelled.

Reinforce Ward can be cast more than once on a single creature, choosing a different spell each time.


A lot of restrictions on the available spells here, but all the important protections (except Mind Blank, but Magic Circle will do the job nearly as well) fit when cast by a cleric.



VI. Miscellaneous



The ally fix (listed above) will help a lot with Gate, but it still seems a bit much, so here's a further nerf:

Gate:

Conjuration (Creation or Calling)
Level: Clr 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, XP; see text
Casting Time: 1 standard action or 10 minutes; see text
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: See text
Duration: Instantaneous or concentration (up to 1 round/level); see text
Saving Throw: None or Will Negates; see text
Spell Resistance: No or No and Yes; see text

Casting a gate spell has two effects. First, it creates an interdimensional connection between your plane of existence and a plane you specify, allowing travel between those two planes in either direction.

Second, you may then call a particular individual or kind of being through the gate; the details of this calling depend on whether the spell is cast as an arcane spell or a divine spell.

The gate itself is a circular hoop or disk from 5 to 20 feet in diameter (caster’s choice), oriented in the direction you desire when it comes into existence (typically vertical and facing you). It is a two-dimensional window looking into the plane you specified when casting the spell, and anyone or anything that moves through is shunted instantly to the other side.

A gate has a front and a back. Creatures moving through the gate from the front are transported to the other plane; creatures moving through it from the back are not.
Planar Travel

As a mode of planar travel, a gate spell functions much like a plane shift spell, except that the gate opens precisely at the point you desire (a creation effect). Deities and other beings who rule a planar realm can prevent a gate from opening in their presence or personal demesnes if they so desire. Travelers need not join hands with you—anyone who chooses to step through the portal is transported. A gate cannot be opened to another point on the same plane; the spell works only for interplanar travel.

You may hold the gate open only for a brief time (no more than 1 round per caster level), and you must concentrate on doing so, or else the interplanar connection is severed.

When used in this manner, Gate takes a standard action to cast.

Calling and Binding Creatures

The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, an arcane caster can cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through if it fails a will save. (It is not, however, entitled to spell resistance to avoid being called.) Deities and unique beings are under no compulsion to come through the gate, although they may choose to do so of their own accord. This use of the spell creates a gate that remains open just long enough to transport the called creatures. This use of the spell has an XP cost (see below).

If you choose to call a kind of creature instead of a known individual you may call either a single creature (of any HD) or several creatures. You can call and attempt to bind several creatures as long as their HD total does not exceed your caster level. In the case of a single creature, you can attempt to bind it if its HD do not exceed twice your caster level. A single creature with more HD than twice your caster level can’t be bound. Deities and unique beings cannot be bound in any event. An unbound being acts as it pleases, making the calling of such creatures rather dangerous. An unbound being may return to its home plane at any time.

In order to attempt to bind a creature, you must create a magic circle spell, as though for Lesser Planar Binding. The binding attempt works just like Lesser Planar Binding, except that you may attempt an offer once per round rather than once per day. Each attempted offer, however, allows the creature another attempt to break free via spell resistance, via dimensional travel, and via a Charisma check; see the Lesser Planar Binding spell for details.

Gate can only be cast in this manner when cast as an arcane spell, and in such case takes 10 minutes to cast.

Calling Allies

When cast as a divine spell, Gate cannot be used to bind extraplanar creatures, but can be used to call allies. By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, provided that it or its master (if it serves a deity) agrees. This use of the spell creates a gate that remains open just long enough to transport the called creatures. This use of the spell has an XP cost (see below).

If you choose to call a kind of creature instead of a known individual you may call either a single creature (of any HD) or several creatures. You can call several creatures to serve as long as their HD total does not exceed your caster level and each one has a subtype matching either your alignment or one of your domains. In the case of a single creature, you can gain its services if its HD do not exceed twice your caster level and it has an appropriate subtype. A single creature with more HD than twice your caster level, or a deity or unique being, or one with no matching subtype, does not serve but rather acts as it pleases, making the calling of such creatures potentially dangerous (depending on the nature of the being). Such a being may return to its home plane at any time.

A creature willing to serve may be asked to perform a service for you. Such services fall into two categories: immediate tasks and contractual service. Fighting for you in a single battle or taking any other actions that can be accomplished within 1 round per caster level counts as an immediate task; you need not make any agreement or pay any reward for the creature’s help. The creature departs at the end of the spell.

If you choose to exact a longer or more involved form of service from a called creature, you must offer some fair trade in return for that service. The service exacted must be reasonable with respect to the promised favor or reward; see the lesser planar ally spell for appropriate rewards. (Some creatures may want their payment in “livestock” rather than in coin, which could involve complications.) Immediately upon completion of the service, the being is transported to your vicinity, and you must then and there turn over the promised reward. After this is done, the creature is instantly freed to return to its own plane.

Failure to fulfill the promise to the letter results in your being subjected to service by the creature or by its liege and master, at the very least. At worst, the creature or its kin may attack you, or if your deity objects you might even lose your ability to cast spells.

When cast in this manner, Gate takes 10 minutes to cast.

Note: When you use a calling spell such as gate to call an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it becomes a spell of that type.
XP Cost

1,000 XP (only for the calling creatures function).


With the new change, arcane-spell Gate and divine-spell Gate are quite different despite technically being the same spell; in terms of items the best approach is probably to make them interchangeable for staffs (and of course they're different for scrolls, which must be arcane or divine anyway), but candles of invocation can only be created using a divine Gate, and when burned can either create a divine Gate or "upgrade" any Planar Binding spell into an arcane Gate.

Minor Creation

Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: Unattended, nonmagical object of nonliving plant matter, up to 1 cu. ft./level
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You create a nonmagical, unattended object of nonliving, vegetable matter. The volume of the item created cannot exceed 1 cubic foot per caster level. You must succeed on an appropriate skill check to make a complex item.

Attempting to use any created object as a material component causes the spell to fail.

Acid, Alchemist's Fire, Poisons, and similar materials cannot be created via this spell.

Material Component

A tiny piece of matter of the same sort of item you plan to create with minor creation.


Somewhat minor change, but it cuts out a lot of otherwise overpowered options (especially since Major Creation is based on Minor Creation and the fixed PAO is partially based on Major Creation.)

Wind Wall:

Evocation (Air)
Level: Air 2, Clr 3, Drd 3, Rgr 2, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Wall up to 10 ft./level long and 5 ft./level high (S)
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

An invisible vertical curtain of wind appears. It is 2 feet thick and of considerable strength. It is a roaring blast sufficient to blow away any bird smaller than an eagle, or tear papers and similar materials from unsuspecting hands. (A Reflex save allows a creature to maintain its grasp on an object.) Tiny and Small flying creatures cannot pass through the barrier. Loose materials and cloth garments fly upward when caught in a wind wall. Arrows and bolts are deflected upward, granting a deflection bonus to AC against them equal to the caster's level, while against any other normal ranged weapon passing through the wall the deflection bonus is half as much. (A giant-thrown boulder, a siege engine projectile, and other massive ranged weapons are not affected.) Gases, most gaseous breath weapons, and creatures in gaseous form cannot pass through the wall (although it is no barrier to incorporeal creatures).

While the wall must be vertical, you can shape it in any continuous path along the ground that you like. It is possible to create cylindrical or square wind walls to enclose specific points.
Arcane Material Component

A tiny fan and a feather of exotic origin.


A seemingly meaningless change: Rather than automatically missing, arrows and bolts have a 100% miss chance. It does, however, have an effect in that it makes it subject to seeking weapons and similar effects.

Waves of Fatigue:

Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Waves of negative energy render all living creatures in the spell’s area fatigued. This spell has no effect on a creature that is already fatigued.


Waves of Exhaustion:

Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude Partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

Waves of negative energy cause all living creatures in the spell’s area to become exhausted. A creature that makes its save becomes fatigued instead, unless it was already fatigued, in which case it becomes exhausted. This spell has no effect on a creature that is already exhausted.

Maze:

Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You banish the subject into an extradimensional labyrinth of force planes. Each round on its turn, it may attempt a DC 20 Intelligence check to escape the labyrinth as a full-round action. If the subject doesn’t escape, the maze disappears after 10 minutes, forcing the subject to leave.

On escaping or leaving the maze, the subject reappears where it had been when the maze spell was cast. If this location is filled with a solid object, the subject appears in the nearest open space. Spells and abilities that move a creature within a plane, such as teleport and dimension door, do not help a creature escape a maze spell, although a plane shift spell allows it to exit to whatever plane is designated in that spell. Minotaurs are not affected by this spell.


All three of these two need saves.

Simulacrum:

Illusion (Shadow)
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M, XP
Casting Time: 12 hours
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: One duplicate creature
Duration: Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only one-half of the real creature’s levels or Hit Dice (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). You can’t create a simulacrum of a creature whose Hit Dice or levels exceed twice your caster level. You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Spot check (opposed by the caster’s Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive check.

At all times the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. A simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.

A simulacrum does not last forever: At the end of 2 days per caster level, minus one day for each HD or level the simulacrum has, the simulacrum begins weakening, losing one hit die or level per day. When it hits zero, the simulacrum reverts to snow.

Material Component

The spell is cast over the rough snow or ice form, and some piece of the creature to be duplicated (hair, nail, or the like) must be placed inside the snow or ice. Additionally, the spell requires powdered ruby worth 100 gp per HD of the simulacrum to be created.

XP Cost

100 XP per HD of the simulacrum to be created (minimum 1,000 XP).


Unlimited-time allies of HD equal to your level are way too powerful; giving them a (somewhat long) duration should balance it (when combined with the ally fix).

Time Stop:

Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Trickery 9
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1d4+1 rounds (apparent time); see text

This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat.

You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession.

You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop.

If a spell takes time to come into existence (such as Wall of Stone), the process does not begin until Time Stop ends. Similarly, if a nontargeted spell that allows a reflex save when first cast is cast under Time Stop, any creature that would be eligible is entitled to make the save when Time Stop ends.

Due to character limit, Rope Trick and Mage's Magnificent Mansion are in a later post (responding to the post that pointed out that it would be a good idea to adjust them.)

And finally, something to counter aggressive usage of teleportation against noncasters:

Divert Teleport (new spell)

Abjuration
Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, M
Casting time: 1 minute; see text
Range: Same plane; see text
Area: 60-ft. square per level (S), to a height and depth of 10 ft./level
Duration: 1 month/level
Saving throw: None or Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: No or Yes; see text

Divert Teleport wards an area against teleportation, redirecting any teleports into the area to another designated location.

Divert Teleport does not normally allow a save, but if the new location is directly hazardous (e.g. into lava or a potentially deadly trap or into a solid object, but not simply into enemy forces), the teleporters are entitled to saves and spell resistance to negate the entire teleport (returning to where they started).

Divert Teleport cannot be dispelled.

Material component: 25 gp worth (5 pounds) of powdered silver. Half the powdered silver must be sprinkled around the border of the affected area, and the other half must then be placed at the desired new target for the teleportation. The spell is not completed until this is done, which can increase the casting time beyond one minute, depending on the size of the area, the distance to the new target, and the caster’s speed. During the process, any planar travel (including Conjuration (teleport) spells) ruins the spell.


VII. Anticheese

Hopefully this shouldn't be necessary. But if you want to block cheesy uses for spells without just saying "no cheese, as defined by the DM", here are some ideas:
-When an item shrunk by Shrink Item is tossed on a surface to restore it to normal size, it does not attain its normal size until after it lands. Similarly, use of a command word to restore its size can only be done when it is resting firmly on a surface capable of holding its restored weight. Similarly, if Shrink Item is dispelled, it does not return to its normal size until resting on a surface capable of holding its restored weight.
-An antimagic field suppresses the effects of a magical weapon only if the target is inside the field; if the target is outside the field but the weapon’s user is inside, the weapon hits as a magical weapon. Conversely, any weapon that is ineffective inside an antimagic field (such as the natural weapons of summoned creatures or incorporeal undead) is likewise ineffective against a target in an antimagic field, even if the weapon’s wielder is outside the field. (So incorporeal+antimagic cheese is a no-go. It also makes more sense that way.)
-When using Astral Projection, you cannot form a second body on the same plane where your primary body is. (Not that this particular type of cheese is all that broken if the enemy is intelligent; just ask all the dead liches. But it still makes more sense this way.)
-Time Stop cannot be maximized, even with a rod or an epic spell slot. (Thus, its end time cannot be predicted, so tricks involving Delayed Blast Fireball won't work.)
-Bonuses to disguise from shapechanging and illusion spells do not stack.

VIII. Doesn't need Fixing

Some spells, while good, aren't so good that they need fixing. Here's a justification of what I felt was fine as it is (where I felt it was needed):
Sleep: At low levels, it's a substantial cost (a 1st-level spell) for a solid result (although if you don't get everyone they can wake each other back up). At high levels, it's near-useless.
Grease: The low area makes it relatively easy to get out of (possibly using "move 5 feet through difficult terrain to crawl out), and the low duration makes it also less effective until higher levels. Definitely good in the right circumstances, but not overpowered.
Charm Person: In combat, it's of limited use due to the saving throw bonus and the fact that you still can't control the target; in social interactions, of limited use because it's illegal. Still a good spell when properly used, but not a game-breaker.
Ray of Enfeeblement: A solid debuff, but it's single-target and not powerful enough to be a game-breaker (and it doesn't stack and is removable by lesser restoration.)
Enlarge Person: A solid buff, but the 1-round casting time makes it easier to disrupt and it's not powerful enough to be a game-breaker.
Glitterdust: Blindness is a solid debuff, but also an easy to remove one, and the low area makes it unlikely to take out the whole set of enemies (and the others may very well be able to last long enough for it to wear off.) Useful, but again not likely to win a battle for you unless the enemies are clumped together or the anti-hiding feature is being used.
Web: Also solid battlefield control, but only up to a point (and of course if they reach the edge they can use it for cover without it giving cover from them, which makes it somewhat of a double-edged sword.)
Shatter: Nifty, but most useful targets are things you want to be able to loot afterward.
Phantom Steed: Difficult to use in combat because Ride is not a class skill, and easy to destroy.
Deep Slumber: Close range plus one round casting time makes it tough to pull off without heavy protection, and even then it's weaker than Sleep at its appropriate level.
Ray of Exhaustion: A solid debuff, but can be mostly removed (or totally if they made the save) with a level 2 spell. Also tricky to pull off, as the ally keeping you safe at close range also likely provides cover to your enemy.
Fly: Impressive, but you're still vulnerable to archers (or, with Wind Wall, to slingers) and other flyers. (And more in dungeons with low ceilings.) A nice defensive buff, but not a gamebreaker IMO.
Slow: A solid debuff, but at 1 round/level you can only do so much damage before it wears off if they play things intelligently (and of course you have to stay out of the range of their charge.) Also blocked by Freedom of Movement.
Resilient Sphere: Really only useful when there's 2 or 3 enemies, or one strong enemy and a bunch of weaker ones. Can also be dispelled, and allows a save.
Confusion: Now that it's blocked by Magic Circle Against X, it's no longer a fight-winner against protected opponents.
Greater Invisibility: The enemy can still often determine where the attacks are coming from and use area effects or take the 50% miss chance; it's definitely useful, but shouldn't win the fight on its own (although your rogue will still love it).
Enervation: Death Ward comes along just in time.
Fear: It can force the enemies to run...but when it wears off they'll be back.
Dominate Person: Easily countered by PfE or similar effects.
Feeblemind: Useful in combat against only a small class of enemies (who can generally do the same to you.) A niche spell.
Hold Monster: Unless you can manage a Coup De Grace (despite any allies it has) before it gets out of it, it'll help but not win you the fight.
Dismissal/Banishment: Extremely good at turning a balor in your way into a balor that's not in your way but is (most likely) somewhat angry at you (assuming you're on your home plane). Maybe that wasn't such a good idea after all.
Prismatic Wall/Sphere: An impressive defensive spell, but it won't protect your allies without making them useless, and to be of use yourself you have to go in front of it (meaning at the minimum that readied actions can hit you.)
Irresistible Dance: Still blocked by PfE or Magic Circle.
Dominate Monster: Turn the toughest thing you face into your slave? Sure. Have it then turn back in the middle of a tough fight when the enemy casts Protection from Evil on it? Maybe that wasn't such a good idea.
Time Stop: Really only useful for self-buffing and summoning (and maneuvering).


More stuff in post 16.

erikun
2011-07-03, 11:56 AM
Hmm, lots of things to talk about. Let's start.

-There are no bracers of armor; furthermore, armor enhancement bonuses cannot exceed +5 for non-epic items. It is, however, possible to enchant clothing (anything subject to Magic Vestment) with all enchantments that can be applied to armor. (Rationale: Wizards are supposed to be squishy in part due to the lack of armor. Letting bracers get 3 more enhancement bonus than armor breaks that at higher levels.)
The most common armor for wizards is a Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt (0% ASF) along with a Twilight Darkwood Buckler (also 0% ASF). They not only get a far better boost to AC that way, but can also use the magical armor abilities, which are generally far better than the AC bonus.

For any creature that actually threatens the wizard's AC, relying on miss chances or simply not being there is a far better option.

Bracers of Armor are actually rather weak, being +5 AC behind a basic two-handed fighter and +12 AC behind anyone with a shield (including animated ones). They're basically an equipment form of Mage Armor, and I can guarantee that forcing the wizard to spend a few extra 1st level spells won't cut into their power any.

For a recommended change: turn miss chances into AC bonuses, at the rate of +1 AC per 5% miss chance. Being able to stack miss chances from spells and items to over 90% ends up becoming silly, and allows the wizard to ignore their AC regardless of how low it is. I'd also recommend removing the Twilight armor properity, if you really dislike armored wizards.

-You cannot take 10 on spellcraft or knowledge checks. Either you know it or you don't. (Rationale: Besides that it makes more sense, it makes it a lot harder to reliably fill up your spellbook with every spell you might want.)
It is rather easy to have a +10 Spellcraft check at first level, if you desire. I'm not sure this will matter much for transcribing wizards past 10th level, especially if they focus on their spellcraft rolls.

You might see them spend a feat on Skill Focus: Spellcraft, though.

-Orange Prism Ioun stones don't stack
Two bonuses from the same source don't stack anyways.

Stinking Cloud
The wizard is still elimination two rounds (at least) from each monster caught inside the cloud.

Solid Fog
Transmute Rock to Mud
Not a bad idea, although simply giving the Tarrasque a decent Jump check would solve both issues as well. :smalltongue: I mean, it still can't do much against flying invisible targets.

Cloudkill
Makes sense, although I think you'll find that not many 3 HD enemies carry around potions of Delay Poison.

Wall of Force
Wall of Iron
Wall of Stone
Forcecage
Interesting. I notice that Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and Otiluke's Telekinetic Sphere aren't on the list - perhaps they should at least have the "adjacent creature may make a Reflex save to distupt the spell" clause as well? Having the spell take a round to form would make them quite useless, though, so perhaps leave that part out.

Other than that, I see that quickened walls of force aren't as useful against chargers, but is this really that big of a change? I get the feeling that a game under these rules would see an unusually large portion of reinforcements coming through doors the round that the wall is forming.

Protection from Evil
What, exactly, is this change supposed to do?

Reinforce Ward (new spell)
Hmm, I love my new undispellable persisted Divine Power.
It's a good thing we aren't trying to bring Clerics into line, isn't it? :smallamused:

Minor Creation
You'd probably be better with "poisons and alchemical materials". Simply saying 'similar materials' doesn't really tell much.

And finally, something to counter aggressive usage of teleportation against noncasters:

Divert Teleport (new spell)
Does a spell really help noncasters out at all?

Charm Person: In combat, it's of limited use due to the saving throw bonus and the fact that you still can't control the target; in social interactions, of limited use because it's illegal. Still a good spell when properly used, but not a game-breaker.

What do you mean by this?

gkathellar
2011-07-03, 02:19 PM
Polymorph: I have to say, I do like the Giant's fix for this. It's not elegant, and it has flaws, but it works.

Combat control: Less broken with these fixes, but weird in all new ways. For example, why give a reflex save to disrupt forcecage and not to, you know, dive free of it?

Save-or-X: The problem you've created here is that spellcasters are still the only guys capable of surviving these. Sure, there's less, "You win Initiative, you win the game," but only if your opponent has access to these spells you've buffed up. Non-casters are still helpless against Save-or-X. Reinforce Ward also worries me, as it looks almost like a spell tax.

Wind Wall: Come on, if you're going to do a wizard fix, removing archer-immunity is one of the most obvious things you can do. Archer 100% resistance isn't a significant improvement.

Time Stop: Still needs fixing because you can still drop a forcecage on someone and then fill their cell with lava.

My favorite wizard "fix" is to give them the Pathfinder spell list (less abuseable spells) and bard spell progression. If you cap them off at level 6 spells and slow their spell level access, you've removed a lot of cheese from the game.

Yitzi
2011-07-03, 03:11 PM
Hmm, lots of things to talk about. Let's start.

-There are no bracers of armor; furthermore, armor enhancement bonuses cannot exceed +5 for non-epic items. It is, however, possible to enchant clothing (anything subject to Magic Vestment) with all enchantments that can be applied to armor. (Rationale: Wizards are supposed to be squishy in part due to the lack of armor. Letting bracers get 3 more enhancement bonus than armor breaks that at higher levels.)
The most common armor for wizards is a Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt (0% ASF) along with a Twilight Darkwood Buckler (also 0% ASF). They not only get a far better boost to AC that way, but can also use the magical armor abilities, which are generally far better than the AC bonus.

Twilight armor is not core, so I'm working on the assumption that it is not available. Otherwise it'd probably have to be banned or otherwise nerfed.


For any creature that actually threatens the wizard's AC, relying on miss chances or simply not being there is a far better option.

Miss chances tend to come with their own downsides, though (for instance, it's very difficult to get a miss chance that'll stand up to True Sight, or a strong miss chance that'll stand up to See Invisibility. And there are no long-term spells that give miss chances, so it'll cost you either a round or a high-level spell.)


Bracers of Armor are actually rather weak, being +5 AC behind a basic two-handed fighter

Not really. They're +5 less in the armor bonus, but allow indefinitely high DEX bonus, so with gloves of DEX and a good starting value (say, 14), that can cut into the advantage substantially.


They're basically an equipment form of Mage Armor.

Except that Mage Armor caps out at +4, and bracers at +8.


For a recommended change: turn miss chances into AC bonuses, at the rate of +1 AC per 5% miss chance. Being able to stack miss chances from spells and items to over 90% ends up becoming silly

Indeed it does; if you tell me how people do that I'll figure out how to block it (probably not by turning it into AC, as +18 AC is also pretty silly.)

Although you'd get lower anyway, as miss chances don't stack; fundamentally different miss chances force you to roll against each, but there's still no stacking (so a 50% and a 20% gives a total of 60% to miss.)


It is rather easy to have a +10 Spellcraft check at first level, if you desire. I'm not sure this will matter much for transcribing wizards past 10th level, especially if they focus on their spellcraft rolls.

Yes, it can be done...but it's more difficult (such as needing to spend a feat as you said), especially if they really insist on getting every spell.
The main key is really going to come out to depowering the one-shot-fight spells.


-Orange Prism Ioun stones don't stack
Two bonuses from the same source don't stack anyways.

Good point, so that really wasn't needed.


Stinking Cloud
The wizard is still elimination two rounds (at least) from each monster caught inside the cloud.

If they fail their save, and don't just use one round to shrug it out, make the save the next round, and move+attack the next round. And yes, it is pretty good combat control, but not enough to win the fight on its own. Tier 3, not tier 1.


I mean, it still can't do much against flying invisible targets.

Well, except for ignore/regenerate pretty much everything that's thrown at it until they run out.


Cloudkill
Makes sense, although I think you'll find that not many 3 HD enemies carry around potions of Delay Poison.

It's more for the higher-level usage.


Wall of Force
Wall of Iron
Wall of Stone
Forcecage
Interesting. I notice that Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and Otiluke's Telekinetic Sphere aren't on the list

Firstly, they already have saves, and secondly they can only affect one target each.


Other than that, I see that quickened walls of force aren't as useful against chargers, but is this really that big of a change? I get the feeling that a game under these rules would see an unusually large portion of reinforcements coming through doors the round that the wall is forming.

The idea is that you first use Expeditious Retreat or the like to get a decent lead over the enemy you're running away from, and then use Wall of Force to ensure your escape. As opposed to using it to block off a passage so the enemy can't escape or so that you can buff in peace, or to separate half the enemy forces from the other half.


Protection from Evil
What, exactly, is this change supposed to do?

Give protection against spells like Confusion and Irresistible Dance (which are pretty debatable at best under the old rules, since they don't actually give ongoing control.)


Reinforce Ward (new spell)
Hmm, I love my new undispellable persisted Divine Power.

Not abjuration school, therefore not valid.
I put in all those conditions for a reason, you know.:smallsmile:
(Also, persisted isn't core.)


It's a good thing we aren't trying to bring Clerics into line, isn't it?

That's for another post. I'm thinking to make Divine Power a domain spell only, and restrict the War domain to a variant with spells/day more similar to a bard (but with a few goodies to go along with it.)


Minor Creation
You'd probably be better with "poisons and alchemical materials". Simply saying 'similar materials' doesn't really tell much.

Except that that would ban things like sunrods, which I don't want to do.


Does a spell really help noncasters out at all?

Yes, as the duration is high enough that hiring a wizard to cast it for you once every few months is quite feasible.


What do you mean by this?

People don't like having their minds manipulated. Therefore, cities and countries have laws against that sort of thing, so using it in that sort of situation will tend to lead to undesired attention (i.e. becoming the adventure for a party of a higher level than you.)


Polymorph: I have to say, I do like the Giant's fix for this. It's not elegant, and it has flaws, but it works.

Can you link that?


Combat control: Less broken with these fixes, but weird in all new ways. For example, why give a reflex save to disrupt forcecage and not to, you know, dive free of it?

Because I don't want it to be too weak, so at that cost making it possible to negate the save (by making it not adjacent to the target) is desirable, but it shouldn't be too easy. It also fits with the "walls of force take a moment to come into existence" idea from the earlier spell.


Save-or-X: The problem you've created here is that spellcasters are still the only guys capable of surviving these.

Spellcasters, and the party members of spellcasters (all these spells can be cast on allies), and creatures capable of UMD...at the level where save-or-X becomes a real issue, any serious enemy should at the very least have a spellcaster henchman capable of the job.

And the idea that wizards are devastating against targets with no magical protection, but magic is a lot easier to protect against than physical attacks, seems very appropriate to me thematically.


Reinforce Ward also worries me, as it looks almost like a spell tax.

How so?


Wind Wall: Come on, if you're going to do a wizard fix, removing archer-immunity is one of the most obvious things you can do. Archer 100% resistance isn't a significant improvement.

At lower levels it isn't. At higher levels, where every archer who wants to fight wizards is getting the Seeking bonus (or something equivalent) anyway, it's quite a difference.


Time Stop: Still needs fixing because you can still drop a forcecage on someone and then fill their cell with lava.

Good point. Added a fix for it, so that that sort of thing is no easier than without Time Stop. (Forcecage+lava can still work if you can stop them from escaping before you find a source of lava.)


My favorite wizard "fix" is to give them the Pathfinder spell list (less abuseable spells) and bard spell progression. If you cap them off at level 6 spells and slow their spell level access, you've removed a lot of cheese from the game.

You've also probably lowered them to tier 4 if not 5. I don't want wizards to be that weak, just not overpowered.

Quellian-dyrae
2011-07-03, 03:22 PM
Many of these look solid. Others I think you may have gone a bit too far. Some specifics:

I second Erikun on the Bracers of Armor. They're actually fairly inefficient.

I like the idea for trying to contact invisibles. Maybe also add an option where they can check every square in their reach as a move action, waving your hand or weapon all around you or whatever.

Don't like the Spellcraft/Knowledge rule. Being unable to take 10 means you can't be certain of knowing basic information in your field. It seems very off to me. If you want to restrict adding new spells, I'd make that a clause specific to the check to add spells to your spellbook.

I'm leery of direct nerfs to divinations because, used right, they can be an incredible boon to a DM, allowing characters to make progress in situations normal characters might not be able to. I'd generally rather revise divinations on a larger scale, so that they serve best as a way to gather data and progress the story, but can't generally solve puzzles or challenges for the players.

The polymorph change seems solid. Myself, I think Pathfinder did great with their polymorph rules. I also have a house rule going where a polymorph spell just grants Evolutions (as from the Pathfinder Eidolon). I think Polymorph Any Object is still a bit too much. Personally, I'm thinking that creature to creature polymorphs should never have a huge duration (10 min/level max, I'd say). I'm not sure object to creature is a necessary option in any case, but if it is, I'd either treat the creatures as constructs with regard to mentals, or use the Awaken rules (and perhaps a similar XP cost).

I'm not a fan of the wall changes. I don't see them as overpowered at all (Wall of Iron wealth shenanigans notwithstanding), and the changes remove a lot of tactical versatility. Wall of Stone and Wall of Iron can both be breached by enough damage, and Wall of Force has a short duration. On open battlefields, they can be circumvented or flown over. They're solid battlefield control, nothing more.

Forcecage...I'd just give Reflex to get out of the area. That would make it a multi-target Resilient Sphere effect. As is, it has the odd balance of being potentially no-save, but any successful save protects everyone. In any case, the component cost should be removed, not increased, if it allows a save. The effect itself is not sufficient to justify a component; I'm pretty sure that's only there to mitigate the fact that no save is allowed.

The save-or-X...don't get me wrong, improving counter-magic does, indeed, provide some balance to magic. That being said, I'm not a fan of the "entire broad group of spells, actually probably an entire character archetype, is now useless" spells in any case. In my opinion, D&D needs fewer "this always works unless you have the correct counter" effects, not more. One house rule I'm using with save-or-X effects is that characters who are affected can immediately start trying to fend them off. They become Nauseated, and each round on their turn can roll a Fortitude or Will save (target's choice). A success improves their condition, a failure worsens it, following the track of Fine -> Staggered -> Nauseated -> Dazed -> Normal effect of the spell, ignoring immunities to those conditions. The actual effect of the spell can be healed, removed, or otherwise ended during this time, but its duration doesn't tick down. Also, all hampering spells allow a save, but the ones that originally didn't can't be thrown off in this manner.

What this does is, it makes it so that "save or lose" probably won't completely neutralize a foe with one failed save, but at a minimum costs it one round of being useful and one round of being at full strength. With low saves, it can cost the enemy substantially more time. It also creates some parity between the status effects. Most characters won't bother trying to fend off a one-round stun or being simply Shaken or Fatigued, but hit them with paralysis, compulsions, or death effects, and you can bet they will. It also tones the "no-save-just-lose" spells down to true "save or lose", reducing their power while still justifying their level.

I do kind of think Rope Trick - and Magnificent Mansion for that matter - could use a casting time increase. A one-hour casting time is like setting up camp, so you can't just pop into extradimensional hiding in the middle of hostile territory, but if you can find a safe spot to rest, you can ensure safety.

I think everything else looks pretty good.

gkathellar
2011-07-03, 04:08 PM
Can you link that?

The Giant's homebrew is stickied at the top of the Homebrewing Forum.


Because I don't want it to be too weak, so at that cost making it possible to negate the save (by making it not adjacent to the target) is desirable, but it shouldn't be too easy. It also fits with the "walls of force take a moment to come into existence" idea from the earlier spell.

The problem here is that forcecage is still pretty much save-or-x, then. Besides, Reflex saves could really use some boosting—as it stands Fortitude and Will are far more important—and this is exactly the kind of thing that one should envision an agile rogue doing.


Spellcasters, and the party members of spellcasters (all these spells can be cast on allies), and creatures capable of UMD...at the level where save-or-X becomes a real issue, any serious enemy should at the very least have a spellcaster henchman capable of the job.

So ... the only effective counters to wizards are still wizards, or imitating wizards? That doesn't seem like the right direction to go with this.

And I hope you're not seriously suggesting that the correct way for a high-level fighter to prevail against a wizard is to take leadership.


And the idea that wizards are devastating against targets with no magical protection, but magic is a lot easier to protect against than physical attacks, seems very appropriate to me thematically.

I agree with this philosophically, but only up to a point. Non-mages should be able to survive magical onslaughts even if they get unlucky, that's the whole point of people complaining about save-or-lose. And you've gone out of your way to say that they can only do it with help from mages. Uh.


How so?

In the sense that you will prepare it, the end. If it's not really optional, then there's no reason to give the false impression that characters have one more spell slot than they actually do.


At lower levels it isn't. At higher levels, where every archer who wants to fight wizards is getting the Seeking bonus (or something equivalent) anyway, it's quite a difference.

Yeah but lower levels actually matter, and at higher levels it's an item tax. If all archers are going to grab Seeking, than you shouldn't pretend it's a choice.


You've also probably lowered them to tier 4 if not 5. I don't want wizards to be that weak, just not overpowered.

I also throw in the Pathfinder class abilities, mind, but I think you dramatically underestimate the kind of havoc you can wreak with sixth-level spells.

Yitzi
2011-07-03, 05:03 PM
I second Erikun on the Bracers of Armor. They're actually fairly inefficient.

So then how do you avoid being hit, if not with a high AC?


I like the idea for trying to contact invisibles. Maybe also add an option where they can check every square in their reach as a move action, waving your hand or weapon all around you or whatever.

If checking 2 squares is an attack action, checking every square in reach would have to be far more...I'd say better just to leave it at "checking 2 squares is an attack action." After all, you're trying to actually make contact, and that's more than just moving something.


Don't like the Spellcraft/Knowledge rule. Being unable to take 10 means you can't be certain of knowing basic information in your field.

If it's such basic knowledge, then you should be able to do it with a take 1 (or it might not even need a check at all in extreme cases.)


It seems very off to me. If you want to restrict adding new spells, I'd make that a clause specific to the check to add spells to your spellbook.

Except it also makes sense that you can't decide "ok, I'll be careful and do an ok job" when it comes to knowledge.


I'm leery of direct nerfs to divinations because, used right, they can be an incredible boon to a DM, allowing characters to make progress in situations normal characters might not be able to. I'd generally rather revise divinations on a larger scale, so that they serve best as a way to gather data and progress the story, but can't generally solve puzzles or challenges for the players.

The changes there really aren't all that big, and really only impede progress that would ruin the campaign (whether by balance or by making it impossible to have any lost knowledge.)


I think Polymorph Any Object is still a bit too much. Personally, I'm thinking that creature to creature polymorphs should never have a huge duration (10 min/level max, I'd say).

Why?


I'm not sure object to creature is a necessary option in any case, but if it is, I'd either treat the creatures as constructs with regard to mentals, or use the Awaken rules (and perhaps a similar XP cost).

Thing is, those have their rules because there is no normal rule for the mental abilities of an awakened creature (and constructs have no rules about mental abilities). Here there is an alternative.

And a similar XP cost would be appropriate if it were permanent like Awaken, but as it is it seems it's too much.


I'm not a fan of the wall changes. I don't see them as overpowered at all (Wall of Iron wealth shenanigans notwithstanding), and the changes remove a lot of tactical versatility. Wall of Stone and Wall of Iron can both be breached by enough damage, and Wall of Force has a short duration. On open battlefields, they can be circumvented or flown over. They're solid battlefield control, nothing more.

Even so, they can be extremely powerful (splitting an enemy force in 2 for a significant time) in less open areas. Since the PHB itself indicates by Wall of Stone that it's not meant for battlefield control...


Forcecage...I'd just give Reflex to get out of the area. That would make it a multi-target Resilient Sphere effect. As is, it has the odd balance of being potentially no-save, but any successful save protects everyone.

Yes...a material cost is too much for a multi-target Resilient Sphere effect, but a total no-save is too strong for that level. It's a bit unusual, but the result makes it usually not worth it in combat but very useful in certain niche circumstances (such as a single enemy who you want to contain but not kill.)


In any case, the component cost should be removed, not increased, if it allows a save. The effect itself is not sufficient to justify a component; I'm pretty sure that's only there to mitigate the fact that no save is allowed.

And here there is potentially no save allowed.

Basically, the question is whether it should be turned into a more balanced combat spell or a more niche spell. Your approach fits the former, while I think the latter is a better approach.


The save-or-X...don't get me wrong, improving counter-magic does, indeed, provide some balance to magic. That being said, I'm not a fan of the "entire broad group of spells, actually probably an entire character archetype, is now useless" spells in any case. In my opinion, D&D needs fewer "this always works unless you have the correct counter" effects, not more.

Well, it's not "always works", but I see the "effect-and-counter" system as being a fundamental part of how magic works and is defended against.

It's really a question of what sort of flavor you want the system to have.


One house rule I'm using with save-or-X effects is that characters who are affected can immediately start trying to fend them off. They become Nauseated, and each round on their turn can roll a Fortitude or Will save (target's choice). A success improves their condition, a failure worsens it, following the track of Fine -> Staggered -> Nauseated -> Dazed -> Normal effect of the spell, ignoring immunities to those conditions. The actual effect of the spell can be healed, removed, or otherwise ended during this time, but its duration doesn't tick down. Also, all hampering spells allow a save, but the ones that originally didn't can't be thrown off in this manner.

What this does is, it makes it so that "save or lose" probably won't completely neutralize a foe with one failed save, but at a minimum costs it one round of being useful and one round of being at full strength. With low saves, it can cost the enemy substantially more time. It also creates some parity between the status effects. Most characters won't bother trying to fend off a one-round stun or being simply Shaken or Fatigued, but hit them with paralysis, compulsions, or death effects, and you can bet they will. It also tones the "no-save-just-lose" spells down to true "save or lose", reducing their power while still justifying their level.

An interesting approach, but that really changes the flavor more, and in a different direction, than what I'm aiming for here.


I do kind of think Rope Trick - and Magnificent Mansion for that matter - could use a casting time increase. A one-hour casting time is like setting up camp, so you can't just pop into extradimensional hiding in the middle of hostile territory, but if you can find a safe spot to rest, you can ensure safety.

I could see that, but I don't really think it's all that necessary, since popping into extradimensional hiding when the enemy knows where you are is a bad idea anyway.

Still, it does make a certain amount of sense, so I'm changing it, though a bit differently (as it should be possible to use it for smaller durations with a smaller casting time). Due to character limit, I'm placing the changed versions here:

Rope Trick:
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action or 1 minute or 10 minutes or 1 hour; see text
Range: Touch
Target: One touched piece of rope from 5 ft. to 30 ft. long
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 minute/level or 10 minutes/level or 1 hour/level (D); see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

When this spell is cast upon a piece of rope from 5 to 30 feet long, one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end. The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space that is outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces (“planes”). Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes. The space holds as many as eight creatures (of any size). Creatures in the space can pull the rope up into the space, making the rope “disappear.” In that case, the rope counts as one of the eight creatures that can fit in the space. The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free.

Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot by 5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extradimensional space.

The casting time and duration of this spell are variable; the caster may choose the casting time (of the options given), and the duration is equal to the chosen casting time multiplied by the caster level.

Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.
Material Component

Powdered corn extract and a twisted loop of parchment.

Mage's Magnificent Mansion:

Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action or 1 minute or 10 minutes or 1 hour; see text
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Extradimensional mansion, up to three 10-ft. cubes/level (S)
Duration: 2 rounds/level or 2 minutes/level or 20 minutes/level or 2 hours/level; see text (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You conjure up an extradimensional dwelling that has a single entrance on the plane from which the spell was cast. The entry point looks like a faint shimmering in the air that is 4 feet wide and 8 feet high. Only those you designate may enter the mansion, and the portal is shut and made invisible behind you when you enter. You may open it again from your own side at will. Once observers have passed beyond the entrance, they are in a magnificent foyer with numerous chambers beyond. The atmosphere is clean, fresh, and warm.

You can create any floor plan you desire to the limit of the spell’s effect. The place is furnished and contains sufficient foodstuffs to serve a nine-course banquet to a dozen people per caster level. A staff of near-transparent servants (as many as two per caster level), liveried and obedient, wait upon all who enter. The servants function as unseen servant spells except that they are visible and can go anywhere in the mansion.

Since the place can be entered only through its special portal, outside conditions do not affect the mansion, nor do conditions inside it pass to the plane beyond.

The casting time and duration of this spell are variable; the caster may choose the casting time (of the options given), and the duration is equal to the chosen casting time multiplied by twice the caster level.

Focus

A miniature portal carved from ivory, a small piece of polished marble, and a tiny silver spoon (each item worth 5 gp).



The Giant's homebrew is stickied at the top of the Homebrewing Forum.

Thanks. Looking at it, it seems to be somewhat similar to my idea, although far less restrictive on the numerical bonuses and far more restrictive on other sorts of bonuses.


The problem here is that forcecage is still pretty much save-or-x, then. Besides, Reflex saves could really use some boosting—as it stands Fortitude and Will are far more important—and this is exactly the kind of thing that one should envision an agile rogue doing.

Point; still, the idea that it isn't quite fast enough to be undisruptable also makes sense; I've changed it to accomodate both ideas.


So ... the only effective counters to wizards are still wizards, or imitating wizards? That doesn't seem like the right direction to go with this.

More clerics than wizards...and "working with a caster" also works.


And I hope you're not seriously suggesting that the correct way for a high-level fighter to prevail against a wizard is to take leadership.

No, the proper way for a high-level fighter to prevail against a wizard is to be in a balanced party. Which is also the proper way for a high-level wizard to prevail against a monk (or will be under my upcoming monk fix), and the proper way for a high-level monk to prevail against a fighter.

I see no reason that every class has to be effective against every other class, so long as each has strengths and weaknesses.


I agree with this philosophically, but only up to a point. Non-mages should be able to survive magical onslaughts even if they get unlucky, that's the whole point of people complaining about save-or-lose. And you've gone out of your way to say that they can only do it with help from mages. Uh.

I don't see why it's necessary for a magicless group to be effective. As long as not everyone has to be a caster (and in fact it's highly advisable if not necessary that not everyone is a caster), it should be ok.


In the sense that you will prepare it, the end.

Not necessarily. If you're up against someone who's going to go the "dispel then dominate" or "dispel then death effect" or "dispel then polymorph" route, it's highly advisable. If you're not, it's next to useless.


Yeah but lower levels actually matter, and at higher levels it's an item tax.

Not really, as even without it there are ways to hurt wizards besides arrows and bolts. This is more for the benefit of those who are getting Seeking (or equivalent class features) in order to fight wizards anyway.

Quellian-dyrae
2011-07-03, 06:12 PM
So then how do you avoid being hit, if not with a high AC?

I mean the bracers aren't a very cost-effective way to get high AC. Although maybe in core-only they're comparatively better. Even so, 64,000 gold for 8 AC is a pretty stiff cost in itself.


If checking 2 squares is an attack action, checking every square in reach would have to be far more...I'd say better just to leave it at "checking 2 squares is an attack action." After all, you're trying to actually make contact, and that's more than just moving something.

True enough. I was figuring an attack out of your full attack lets you check two squares; a move action means you're limited to a standard attack (or other standard action) but can check everything around you. Guess it wouldn't actually matter until level 11+ for most chars anyway, though.::Shrug::


If it's such basic knowledge, then you should be able to do it with a take 1 (or it might not even need a check at all in extreme cases.)

Except it also makes sense that you can't decide "ok, I'll be careful and do an ok job" when it comes to knowledge.

Eh, I guess really it's just, everything below a certain point is stuff you know, and everything above that point you might know. With Take 10, that point is a DC nine higher than without. It just seems to me that common knowledge that anyone might know (DC 10 or lower) should be the sort of stuff that a trained person in that field would know, given a bit of time to think (I tend to see it as, taking 10 means you can take a moment to think and recall it, but in times of stress, where you can't take 10, people might forget or overlook details they otherwise know).


The changes there really aren't all that big, and really only impede progress that would ruin the campaign (whether by balance or by making it impossible to have any lost knowledge.)

Fair enough. I think that was less a "I don't really like this change" and more of a "I think divinations need a much more fundamental change in general" point.:smallamused:


Why?

Thing is, those have their rules because there is no normal rule for the mental abilities of an awakened creature (and constructs have no rules about mental abilities). Here there is an alternative.

And a similar XP cost would be appropriate if it were permanent like Awaken, but as it is it seems it's too much.

Must have had a reading fail there, thought it was permanent.


Even so, they can be extremely powerful (splitting an enemy force in 2 for a significant time) in less open areas. Since the PHB itself indicates by Wall of Stone that it's not meant for battlefield control...

Eh, this looks like an agree to disagree point.


Yes...a material cost is too much for a multi-target Resilient Sphere effect, but a total no-save is too strong for that level. It's a bit unusual, but the result makes it usually not worth it in combat but very useful in certain niche circumstances (such as a single enemy who you want to contain but not kill.)

And here there is potentially no save allowed.

Basically, the question is whether it should be turned into a more balanced combat spell or a more niche spell. Your approach fits the former, while I think the latter is a better approach.

Got ya.

[/QUOTE]Well, it's not "always works", but I see the "effect-and-counter" system as being a fundamental part of how magic works and is defended against.

It's really a question of what sort of flavor you want the system to have.[/QUOTE]

True.


Still, it does make a certain amount of sense, so I'm changing it, though a bit differently (as it should be possible to use it for smaller durations with a smaller casting time). Due to character limit, I'm placing the changed versions here:

That's cool, I like that variable casting time for duration bit.

Yitzi
2011-07-03, 06:39 PM
I mean the bracers aren't a very cost-effective way to get high AC.

That depends what your other options are, and how many of them are already being used.


Although maybe in core-only they're comparatively better.

Clearly.


Even so, 64,000 gold for 8 AC is a pretty stiff cost in itself.

Especially since you can get 4 at 1 hour/level for a first-level spell. So it's roughly 16k per point of AC.

But when you've already got a ring of protection +4 and an amulet of natural armor +4, that's the most efficient way to boost your AC further.


True enough. I was figuring an attack out of your full attack lets you check two squares; a move action means you're limited to a standard attack (or other standard action) but can check everything around you.

Thing is, an attack out of your full attack is generally considered a larger action than a move action.


Eh, I guess really it's just, everything below a certain point is stuff you know, and everything above that point you might know. With Take 10, that point is a DC nine higher than without.

Only if you choose to take 10. If you don't know the DC, you might not.


It just seems to me that common knowledge that anyone might know (DC 10 or lower) should be the sort of stuff that a trained person in that field would know, given a bit of time to think (I tend to see it as, taking 10 means you can take a moment to think and recall it, but in times of stress, where you can't take 10, people might forget or overlook details they otherwise know).

Except that why would you possibly do worse by taking a moment to think and recall it? And why would it prevent you from then taking a moment to think and recall it later?


Must have had a reading fail there, thought it was permanent.

Nope, the only permanent application is creature-to-creature, and that affects the target's ECL.

gkathellar
2011-07-03, 07:34 PM
Not really, as even without it there are ways to hurt wizards besides arrows and bolts. This is more for the benefit of those who are getting Seeking (or equivalent class features) in order to fight wizards anyway.

Saying, "there are ways to hurt wizards besides arrows and bolts" is like saying "there are ways to hurt wizards besides melee." It's true, but you're making a mechanical decision that one spell invalidates an entire form of combat unless they all have a specific type of magic item — which is an improvement over the original, but not enough of one.

Yitzi
2011-07-03, 10:01 PM
Saying, "there are ways to hurt wizards besides arrows and bolts" is like saying "there are ways to hurt wizards besides melee." It's true, but you're making a mechanical decision that one spell invalidates an entire form of combat unless they all have a specific type of magic item — which is an improvement over the original, but not enough of one.

Now that I think of it, you're probably right...I've fixed it so any magical weapon has a chance to get past it equal to 10% times the enhancement bonus. It's still an effective anti-projectile defense (well, unless the archer can get up past the wall), but no longer impenetrable.

NeoSeraphi
2011-07-20, 12:17 PM
Why would being immune to poison make you immune to scents? Especially magical scents designed to make you feel sick? Sickness isn't poison, they're completely separate status effects.

Edit:
Bracers of Armor are inefficient. So how do you avoid being hit then?

AC is a useless, broken mechanic. At any given level, the strong enemies are going to have high powered magic items, supporting feats, and enough BAB to get at you, while your AC can only be buffed by +5 over the course of 20 levels from the original armor you wear. (+7-+9 if you're using a shield)

Wizards avoid damage with the many defensive spells that can protect them such as greater invisibility, mirror image, fly, expeditious retreat, dominate monster, hold monster, stoneskin, etc. That's why wizards are Tier 1. They have an answer for everything that doesn't involve the normal rules. A fighter avoids damage with armor and shields. A wizard avoids damage with illusions, flight, invisibility, or simply by disintegrating any fool that comes close to them.

Yitzi
2011-07-22, 10:27 AM
Why would being immune to poison make you immune to scents?

It works against the Hezrou.


AC is a useless, broken mechanic.

Fixing that is one of the main goals of the fix.


At any given level, the strong enemies are going to have high powered magic items, supporting feats, and enough BAB to get at you, while your AC can only be buffed by +5 over the course of 20 levels from the original armor you wear. (+7-+9 if you're using a shield)

And a ring of protection. And an amulet of natural armor. And mithral armor plus gloves of dexterity. And if you're using a shield that +5 becomes +10. For a fighter-sort, AC by level 20 could easily hit the 40s, which should give him a good chance even against dragons of CR 20.
Also, many enemies aren't so likely to have high powered magic items, as item generation is largely random.


Wizards avoid damage with the many defensive spells that can protect them such as greater invisibility, mirror image, fly, expeditious retreat, dominate monster, hold monster, stoneskin, etc. That's why wizards are Tier 1. They have an answer for everything that doesn't involve the normal rules. A fighter avoids damage with armor and shields. A wizard avoids damage with illusions, flight, invisibility, or simply by disintegrating any fool that comes close to them.

And illusions and invisibility have been mitigated by the new groping rules (and have other counters, such as glitterdust (or normal dust) and faerie fire), flight doesn't help against archers or enemies who can themselves fly, and disintegrate allows a Fort save and can be survived with enough HP. Expeditious retreat doesn't help against fast enemies, stoneskin doesn't work very well against high-damage enemies, etc. Each of those has its limitations; the goal is that a wizard should be defenseless against an enemy that can bypass them all (such as a monk using my monk fix.)

jiriku
2011-07-22, 08:15 PM
By and large these are good spell fixes. I have a few minor quibbles with some (in particular, your changes to the wall spells leave those spells groping blindly for a purpose, and IMO the polymorph line is better fixed by reducing HD limits and durations and/or adding expensive material component costs), but I think you've done a solid job of closing many exploits and loopholes.

I'm also pleased to see you removed the option to take 10 when learning spells, as the take 10 rules has the unfortunate side-effect of turning the check into an auto-success.

I'd suggest that wizard still needs further nerfing. Two changes you might consider:
Return to a 2e rule and reinstate a maximum limit on wizard spells known per level. A number equal to 10 + Int mod would probably be appropriate. This places a soft limit on the wizard's ability to be prepared for every single situation, without cramping his ability to develop a robust spellbook.
Strip the ability to learn spells from the spellbooks of others. This forces the wizard to acquire spells from scrolls at a gp cost that more accurately reflects the true value of an additional spell known. It also allows the DM to provide enemy spellcasters with a rich spellbook without worrying about an explosive increase in the party wizard's power level if the spellbook should fall into his hands.

Yitzi
2011-07-23, 09:34 PM
By and large these are good spell fixes. I have a few minor quibbles with some (in particular, your changes to the wall spells leave those spells groping blindly for a purpose

Turning a 1-round lead into a substantial lead.
Because you can't expect to win every fight; sometimes you have to run.

pquote]and IMO the polymorph line is better fixed by reducing HD limits and durations and/or adding expensive material component costs)[/quote]

Thing is, I don't want to weaken the polymorph line too much, just turn it into something other than a way to get cheap combat boosts.


I'd suggest that wizard still needs further nerfing. Two changes you might consider:
Return to a 2e rule and reinstate a maximum limit on wizard spells known per level. A number equal to 10 + Int mod would probably be appropriate. This places a soft limit on the wizard's ability to be prepared for every single situation, without cramping his ability to develop a robust spellbook.

Except I really do want him to be able to able to prepare for any given situation, just not to be, at one time, prepared for each situation. Which is accomplished by his limit on spells/day (even the sorcerer has an advantage of sorts here, in that he only needs 2 "spells known" slots to prepare for "fireball twice today", "fly twice today", and "1 of each", while the wizard needs 4 spells/day slots for the same preparation).


Strip the ability to learn spells from the spellbooks of others. This forces the wizard to acquire spells from scrolls at a gp cost that more accurately reflects the true value of an additional spell known. It also allows the DM to provide enemy spellcasters with a rich spellbook without worrying about an explosive increase in the party wizard's power level if the spellbook should fall into his hands.

I'm more interested in reducing the value of an additional spell known (unless it's also memorized, which does use highly limited slots) than in limiting the number of available spells known.

Yitzi
2011-07-26, 10:39 AM
I'm adding a few more fixes; due to character limitations, I'm putting everything not in the first post here:
Rope Trick:
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action or 1 minute or 10 minutes or 1 hour; see text
Range: Touch
Target: One touched piece of rope from 5 ft. to 30 ft. long
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 minute/level or 10 minutes/level or 1 hour/level (D); see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

When this spell is cast upon a piece of rope from 5 to 30 feet long, one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end. The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space that is outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces (“planes”). Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes. The space holds as many as eight creatures (of any size). Creatures in the space can pull the rope up into the space, making the rope “disappear.” In that case, the rope counts as one of the eight creatures that can fit in the space. The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free.

Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot by 5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extradimensional space.

The casting time and duration of this spell are variable; the caster may choose the casting time (of the options given), and the duration is equal to the chosen casting time multiplied by the caster level.

Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.
Material Component

Powdered corn extract and a twisted loop of parchment.

Mage's Magnificent Mansion:

Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action or 1 minute or 10 minutes or 1 hour; see text
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Extradimensional mansion, up to three 10-ft. cubes/level (S)
Duration: 2 rounds/level or 2 minutes/level or 20 minutes/level or 2 hours/level; see text (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You conjure up an extradimensional dwelling that has a single entrance on the plane from which the spell was cast. The entry point looks like a faint shimmering in the air that is 4 feet wide and 8 feet high. Only those you designate may enter the mansion, and the portal is shut and made invisible behind you when you enter. You may open it again from your own side at will. Once observers have passed beyond the entrance, they are in a magnificent foyer with numerous chambers beyond. The atmosphere is clean, fresh, and warm.

You can create any floor plan you desire to the limit of the spell’s effect. The place is furnished and contains sufficient foodstuffs to serve a nine-course banquet to a dozen people per caster level. A staff of near-transparent servants (as many as two per caster level), liveried and obedient, wait upon all who enter. The servants function as unseen servant spells except that they are visible and can go anywhere in the mansion.

Since the place can be entered only through its special portal, outside conditions do not affect the mansion, nor do conditions inside it pass to the plane beyond.

The casting time and duration of this spell are variable; the caster may choose the casting time (of the options given), and the duration is equal to the chosen casting time multiplied by twice the caster level.

Focus

A miniature portal carved from ivory, a small piece of polished marble, and a tiny silver spoon (each item worth 5 gp).



Glitterdust:

Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: Creatures and objects within 10-ft.-radius spread
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Reflex negates (blinding only), Fortitude partial (blinding only); see text
Spell Resistance: No

A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, causing creatures to become blinded and visibly outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades.

A creature may avoid blindness with a reflex save. If a creature is blinded, each round he may make a Fortitude save against DC 10 as a free action to remove the blindness.

Any creature covered by the dust takes a -40 penalty on Hide checks.
Material Component

Ground mica.


Stone Shape:

Transmutation [Earth]
Level: Clr 3, Drd 3, Earth 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Unworked stone or stone object touched, up to 10 cu. ft. + 1 cu. ft./level
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You can form an existing piece of stone into any shape that suits your purpose. While it’s possible to make crude coffers, doors, and so forth with stone shape, fine detail isn’t possible. There is a 30% chance that any shape including moving parts simply doesn’t work.
Arcane Material Component

Soft clay, which must be worked into roughly the desired shape of the stone object and then touched to the stone while the verbal component is uttered.