I need help with a railroading DM

[Drelua]

I've been playing dnd for years, with the same DM. He's never done this before, but a few weeks ago when we were about to start a new campaign I told him about my character idea; retired adventurer, wife murdered, looking for revenge. he turned murdered into kidnapped, despite my repeated objections, and applied this exact same thing to every other party member. We were then blackmailed into doing evil things, in such a way that role-playing my character consists of doing whatever I'm told by some assassin who, I'm told, could easily kill us. I don't know what I should do about this, especially since no one else seems to mind.

[SilverLeaf167]

I don't just want to throw in the reaction of "ditch dat DM", so...

Maybe you could just roleplay your character doubting that his wife is even alive anymore, or that they would spare her life anyway? The other thing is basically him thinking the evil deeds are too much and having to turn away. The character could simply go mad or become depressed somehow, not even caring of his wife anymore. He could also accidentally try to save his wide.

If you're worried about surviving the angry assassin, there are surely some clever plots how you could defeat him, but if your DM is really railroading and kinda stupid, he might just fudge the assassin to victory anyway.

[Savannah]

Quit the game? I assume by "repeated objections" you've talked to the DM about this and explained your issues. If s/he doesn't care and won't change, you pretty much have to decide if the game is worth the aggravation. If you're willing to quit, I would make one last effort -- sit the DM down and say that this game is not fun, list the reasons why, in detail, and say that it's gotten so bad that you're considering quiting the game (obviously only do this if you're willing to quit).

[Drelua]

He's not the kind of guy that would make me lose, ignoring the rolls, but knowing him the assassin isn't likely any lower than level 20, and we're only level 12. Thanks for the ideas, though, they're a lot better than mine, which was just to take a swing at him. I'll probably use one of those. The weird part is that he usually has extremely open-ended campaigns, like the one where he let me surprise him by tricking a guy into summoning a demon lord. Thanks for the quick reply.

[The Gilded Duke]

It sounds like you are playing a good character, or at least a character attempting to be good. While railroading is a problematic larger issue, and usually something that can be dealt with out of character, I think a role played response to this would be more interesting.

Don't do what the assassin asks.
The wife is already dead.
Don't try to directly fight the assassin, as the assassin will win.

I see two methods which might work.

1.
Don't cooperate at all.
When the assassin threatens to kill you, place your weapon on the ground and bare your neck. If they need pawns to do their dirty work, they will have to find another one.

2.
Cooperate up to a point, but never do anything your character wouldn't do.
When you get a chance find a paladin, or other visible good authority figure.
Punch them in the face.
Surrender and get arrested, and point out all of your "co-conspirators" the other characters getting blackmailed, and most importantly the assassin.

[Kyberwulf]

Ask you DM if something is bothering him,.. i mean if he was a reasonable DM before this...and he is suddeningly trying to control you. Maybe something in his life is making him feel powerless, and spinning out of control. The only way he can feel any sense of control is to try control you.

Take him out for food and stuff, and just hangout with him.

[Drelua]

I like that method of getting arrested. Good plan. of course I'd have to call the shot so I didn't do my full 2d6+20 damage. I like my unarmed, unarmored, fighter build, so I'd hate to leave the campaign, but I'm not enjoying it, so if these ideas don't work I probably will quit.

[HailDiscordia]

If you know that your wife is actually dead then just believe that the assassin is lying to you. So devote all of your efforts to hunting him down and killing him. If the assassin is really much more powerful than you, then he'll kill you and you can start a new game. Hopefully one of the more open ended types that your DM has run in the past.

[PollyOliver]

Honestly, this is probably better handled out of character than in. (And also, ugh, this is really the sort of thing that needs to be run by the players in advance when it's the basis for the entire freaking campaign). Plus, it's not fair for the DM to alter a character's background like that--they control absolutely everything else in the campaign, they ought to let you have your character.

But if you've tried that, and if leaving is not an option you want to consider, I'd agree with most of those above--push back in character. Don't outright attack the assassin, but don't work for him either. Tell him point blank you believe that the hostages are either dead or, on the remote chance they are alive, will never really be released. Or tell him that your life and the life of your wife, while precious to you, are not more precious than your code of ethics and the lives and livelihoods of countless innocents. Worst case in game scenario is that you get killed--in which case you get a new character, hopefully in a new campaign.

[Drelua]

I'll try to get the campaign working but if I can't I might just not go to that one, since we've got a few campaigns going and we play different ones depending on who can show up. That demon summoning was even in the same night as we started getting rail-roaded, after my brother had to get some sleep for work the next day. I'm not overreacting, am I?

[Heatwizard]

I'm not overreacting, am I?

If the campaign's not fun, then it's not fun. Open your mouth and tell him what's wrong, and if he won't do anything about it, then just call it quits. Life will go on.

[Drelua]

Well, thanks for the advice. And PollyOliver, I think that's what annoyed me the most, now that you mention it - the way that he took control of my attempt at an interesting character and, in my opinion, completely ruined it.

[Lord Ruby34]

I'll try to get the campaign working but if I can't I might just not go to that one, since we've got a few campaigns going and we play different ones depending on who can show up. That demon summoning was even in the same night as we started getting rail-roaded, after my brother had to get some sleep for work the next day. I'm not overreacting, am I?

It might be that your DM's just trying something new, and making a mistake. Give him a little time while you play your character according to what he would do. If you keep having problems solve it out of character. If you can't come to an agreement, leave that campaign.

If it's just that your mad that he ruined a character idea for the sake of plot, try to adapt your character concept and save the old one for another campaign.

[Drelua]

I am annoyed that he took control of my character's background, but I'm also annoyed at how I'm forced to play. I tried just role-playing my character, but that gets frustrating fast when all you can do is whatever you're told, unless you want to go completely out of character. That is if I believe my wife is alive and will stay that way. Of course, I could just lose my temper. I am a chaotic good fighter that worships Kord (or as some of my friends like to call him, viking santa),after all.

[PollyOliver]

I don't know your character's personality, but it would be entirely alignment consistent for a chaotic character to chafe, a lot, at being controlled. There are several good reasons of varying types upthread why he might choose to confront his handlers and refuse to work for them, or purposely get himself caught, despite the threats against his wife.

[Drelua]

Maybe I should just go to the guard house and tell them where the assassin is. I don't know what would happen after that, but it's better than just doing whatever I'm told. That's just not fun. I wish we had some way if knowing where our loved ones are being held.

[PollyOliver]

Maybe I should just go to the guard house and tell them where the assassin is. I don't know what would happen after that, but it's better than just doing whatever I'm told. That's just not fun. I wish we had some way if knowing where our loved ones are being held.

Is there a caster in the party? Use divination spells, if so. If one of you is especially sneaky, you can try to follow him and see if he goes there. If the plot prevents you from doing anything at all...well at that point I'd force the issue in character, whether by turning yourself in and telling the guard where the assassin is, or by giving the assassin the choice of whether to negotiate with you, let you go, or kill you outright.

[Drelua]

I'll probably just say my character can't take it anymore, and figure out what he'd do from there. I've got plenty of ideas from this thread that I can use, but first I'll try talking to my DM about this. He's fairly reasonable most of the time.

Edit: we don't have a caster-its 2 fighters, a barbarian and a rogue.

[visigani]

I'll probably just say my character can't take it anymore, and figure out what he'd do from there. I've got plenty of ideas from this thread that I can use, but first I'll try talking to my DM about this. He's fairly reasonable most of the time.

Edit: we don't have a caster-its 2 fighters, a barbarian and a rogue.



It's conceivable that the DM got tired of creating these well thought out campaigns only to have some asshat summon a demon in the middle of it and wreck said plotline.


Part of being a DM is playing the game right along with everyone else... but when you've worked hard to develop something and as a lark a player goes and destroys it for ****s and giggles it can get very frustrating.


That's what sounds like happened here.

Keep in mind we're getting half the story here.

[Anderlith]

Stick your sword in the dirt & ask for the assassin to kill you.

[Zylle]

If, for whatever reason, you don't feel that trying to talk with the DM about how frustrated you're feeling would be productive, my advice is to just think over the current campaign. How can you play your character in a way that would let you enjoy the game in its current state? The answer might even be, to go ahead and have your character die a hero's death, and then reroll a character whose backstory fits in better with the DM's railroading.

You could come up with all kinds of ways to tie in the new character with your old character too, and perhaps even make the eventual goal of your new character to resurrect the old one. Of course, if the DM doesn't let you do any of that, it's probably time to find a new DM...

[kharmakazy]

Roleplay a schizoid personality break due to traumatic events. Begin kidnapping commoners off the street and force them to make "constitution" checks.

Every time you kill something, cover your entire body with their blood and viscera and refuse to speak in anything but mangled latin.

Have your character start acting out horrible depraved adult oriented events.

Refuse to go along with any plot point, no matter how minor.

Hold a funeral for your wife, insist that whatever you buried is actually her, despite any protests.

Role play all the minutia of every action of your character's minute to minute actions, and have him seek investors and draft a business plan for a small business, perhaps some form of insurance. Draft all the paperwork in character.

[Drelua]

Kharmakazy, I like your thinking. A mental break would certainly make railroading less easy to achieve. Oh, and it just occurred to me that the problem might just be that he usually doesn't really have a plan. He let me roll the d% to see if the demon was summoned when its name was uttered, and I rolled a 99, which just made him laugh. This time, though, it was like he was trying to write a story without thinking about the players. I guess its possible that he's just not used to having a detailed plans for a campaign, and doesn't want us changing those plans.

P.S., new DM isn't an option - I live in the middle of nowhere.

[Heatwizard]

Man, don't engage in all that passive-aggressive nonsense. It won't change anything for the better, and it'll just make you look like a jerk.

[Chambers]

I've been playing dnd for years, with the same DM. He's never done this before, but a few weeks ago when we were about to start a new campaign I told him about my character idea; retired adventurer, wife murdered, looking for revenge. he turned murdered into kidnapped, despite my repeated objections, and applied this exact same thing to every other party member. We were then blackmailed into doing evil things, in such a way that role-playing my character consists of doing whatever I'm told by some assassin who, I'm told, could easily kill us. I don't know what I should do about this, especially since no one else seems to mind.

Don't let your character be blackmailed. Refuse to do the evil things and try and rescue your wife. When the rescue attempt fails and your PC dies (as I'm guessing it will, since the DM probably doesn't want to let you go off the rails), just make a new one.

Basically, play your character and let him worry about the railroad consequences, even if it means your characters death.

[Godskook]

1.Talk to him, a *LOT*. You say he almost never does this, so that means there's probably reasons for it beyond "I want to railroad my PCs". Ask him, and make it clear if you really can't enjoy the campaign the way he's presenting it.

2.If this is just a problem cause your character wasn't designed that way, either A)ask to bring a more campaign-friendly character into the game or B)adjust your own ideas of what your character's concept is.

3.Don't do anything that causes your DM to view you as a "problem player" unless you've completely given up on the game. The moment that happens, your credibility basically goes to hell with him, and then you're going down as the rage-quitter.

4.That 'assassin' may not be as powerful as you think it is, and the DM may just be waiting to see how much you'll take before you kill him.

Overall, I'd bet that your DM might be running a "Firewall (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408345/)" plot, and while I could expect that PCs aren't going to enjoy that one as much as the DM, if your DM can confirm this suspicion, that might go a long way towards helping your enjoyment of the campaign.

[motionmatrix]

Anyone who is telling you to just present your neck is pretty much telling you to give your DM an ultimatum: let me play my character while you play everything else, or just take him out of the game.

Its extreme, especially since you don't have other gaming options, so you have to keep the peace in real life, and that sometimes is really hard when you mess with the plans someone else had at the table (in this case the DM).

I personally love the idea of going crazy first, before offering my neck. I don't mean that the chin up method won't force your DM's bluff and/or hand, I just think that you might be able to go bat****, a bit at a time (I would slowly role play it in real life, show up with an apple, eat a bit randomly, then just crush it against my skull halfway through the assassin's monologue. Or just rub the juiciness into my cheek, at the table. Maybe attack another player for no reason whatsoever (you may want to run it by the other player what you plan first, just so they know you are not really trying to kill them).

Next time the assassin comes to them in public, start screaming like a woman who just saw someone snatch her child from a baby carriage. And I mean the words too. Act like a helpless giant baby.

Going crazy does not have to be bloody, it can be comically horrific. If you use this tactic, then you are going for the long term, I will not let you railroad me f*cker no matter what. If after a few sessions of this, the dm does not get it, and you been exponentially ramping up the crazy, then its time for out of game talk.

Remember you are going for the absurd, and when someone asks you why you are trying to be disruptive, you hit them with the pearls of wisdom: I am simply playing a character the way I want to, since I have not been allowed to do so otherwise.

Also, before you do it all, you might just want to tell him out of game you feel railroaded with his decisions and its messing with the game for you. If nothing good comes from said conversation, then you go get the apple: its fair to disrupt the fun of a DM who refuses to stop disrupting your fun. Just try not to piss off the whole group in the process :smallbiggrin:

[Malachei]

he turned murdered into kidnapped, despite my repeated objections, and applied this exact same thing to every other party member. We were then blackmailed into doing evil things, in such a way that role-playing my character consists of doing whatever I'm told by some assassin who, I'm told, could easily kill us. I don't know what I should do about this, especially since no one else seems to mind.

That comes as a surprise if you've been playing with him for years. IMO, he shouldn't change your character's background against your will. But give the situation some time, especially since you've been playing together for so long. Perhaps you don't like the situation, but have some trust in him.

Apparently he has a very concise plot idea he wants to carry out. However, he could have come up with another kidnapped person, which also means a lot to you (a long-lost brother or sister, perhaps), as the murdered wife would have strong impact on your character's personality and your roleplaying. If he takes that away, and you rescue her, you'd have another character, basically (so I expect your character will find her killed anyway).

Regarding the plot: It seems very forced, but then again, some plots start like this. Scourge of the Slavelords, the classic AD&D campaign, starts with the characters kidnapped, stripped of all their gear and imprisoned in a dungeon. For the players, who loved their mid-level PCs' magic items, this was a shock. It also had the nice effect that the players faced a completely new challenge, and learned that a fighter is still a fighter, even when his beloved magic blade is not available.

So maybe your DM is aiming at a certain plot development, which he needs to drive the campaign climax.

IMO, he could do it more subtle, though.

[Ardantis]

Perhaps he is merely trying to challenge you.

And it seems like he is, although maybe not in the way that he intended.

Clever roleplaying, honest character work and giving him a chance might lead to some unexpected roleplaying successes.

The greatest accomplishments are those made under adverse conditions.

[Howler Dagger]

The best way to avoid this: your character suddenly has amnesia, and forgets all about his wife and the assasin and his orders. So when he shows up, you character will do the right thing and call the cops.

[Aegis013]

Man, don't engage in all that passive-aggressive nonsense. It won't change anything for the better, and it'll just make you look like a jerk.

Seconded. Plus extra characters so I can post.

[JFahy]

When you have the out-of-character talk, accentuate the positive.

Point out that he's always given you a fair bit of freedom, and you liked it, and he's now departed from that and it's unfamiliar in a bad way.

Keep in mind - maybe specifically ask him about this - that he may have a sweet story in mind which requires some railroading, and so he's doing this uncharacteristic thing with a big payoff in mind. If so, you may be able to find a way to grit your teeth for a few more sessions and get through this part.

This guy's been earning cred with you for years. Make yourself heard, but also make sure he knows that you haven't forgotten that. :smallsmile:

[Drelua]

Uhh, thanks for the advice and everything, but that was months ago and we haven't gone back to that campaign. We went on to better campaigns, I'm sharing the DMing duties, and we aren't having any of these issues any more. I appreciate the advice, but I'm not the passive aggressive type anyway, I was never going to do anything to ruin everyone's fun, I was just going to opt out of that campaign if I couldn't convince everyone else to start a new game. Which I did. About 4 months ago. :smallamused:

[Malachei]

:smallbiggrin:

Why is the date in the posts so small?

[TheAbstruseOne]

Check out the Burn Notice episode "End Run" (Season 3, Episode 3) if you can. I wrote out a long post about how a character should act regarding being blackmailed to do something via kidnapping, but I realized I was just misquoting Michael's voiceover from this episode.

The main point to remember is that kidnapping is a gun with only one bullet. You can make a lot of demands of your blackmailer because the only thing they can do is kill the hostage. Once they do that, they lose any control they have over you. It's a balancing act between asking for proof of life or concessions for the hostage's comfort/well-being and pushing it too far so that the kidnapper/blackmailer realizes the cost of dealing with the demands and stonewalling aren't worth it and they kill the hostage.

[Dr.Epic]

Confront the DM about this. Tell him this isn't fair in a rational way. If he still refuses to change, talk to the other PCs and see if you'll all agree to just stop going along with the blackmail. They kill your loved ones in game, you could go on a quest to resurrect them. They kill you, campaign's over and he can't blackmail you anymore; create new characters (and they could even be expies of your old ones).

[Darth_Versity]

{{scrubbed}}

[LibraryOgre]

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