Making a Bard/Cleric Theurge Work

[PersonMan]

Alright, well, in a week I'll be DMing a mini-campaign. One of my players tends towards bards, although due to a combination of business and a lack of interest to put a lot of effort into getting to know the rules really well she doesn't use them all that well and only barely really helps the others in combat. I've been talking with her, and we've decided on a Bard/Cleric Mystic Theurge, refluffing the spells from both sides as specific lines in songs. We're at level 10, with the build being planned to be something like Cleric 3/Bard 4/MT 3. Tomorrow I'll be meeting with her again to discuss what I've heard from here, as well as the possibility of early entry via Improved Sigil(Krau), which would change the build to Cleric 3/Bard 1/MT 6.


The rest of the group is mid-low op(the guy who tends towards melee knows how to deal quite a bit of damage, and a large portion of the mages that have been played are blasters), but it should be fine if the build is fairly high-power, as it's going to be almost completely support. I've mentioned DMM to her(mainly Persist and Quicken, to either have essentially permanent buffs for the others or to put a bunch of buffs on them in the beginning of combat), and she seems fairly open to it. So far, I know that one is playing a Chaos Mage(from the Mongoose book 'the Quintessential Chaos Mage'), but am not sure about the others(I'll probably be getting that info in the next few days).

I have the access to most books, although the Dragon magazines are out of my reach, so to speak. I'm looking for spells, feats, etc. that can make the character work.

For stats, she has either an array of 8, 10, 15, 16, 16, 17 or 43 point buy.

[Yora]

I don't think simply giving the player more spells that are going unused isn't going to solve that problem.

[PersonMan]

I don't think simply giving the player more spells that are going unused isn't going to solve that problem.

Exactly, which is why I'll probably be taking a good portion of the suggestions of this thread spell-wise and helping the player with spell selection.

The other options we're considering is a straight Bard or Cleric 9/Bard 1, simply refluffing the Cleric spells as bardic music-esque effects.

[Treblain]

How about Cleric/Combat Medic (advances casting and gives Evasion)/Bard/Fochlucan Lyrist? Assuming your DM will let you learn Druidic, FL has a few advantages over Mystic Theurge. Hard to get the skill requirements, though.

[Yora]

Same problem: If you have a player who does not make much of an effort to learn creative uses of his characters abilities, adding more abilities from different sources will just make things worse.

What about a divine bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantDivineBard) ?

But I think the main problem might be the player playing a spellcaster when something straightforward like a barbarian seem much more what is wanted.

[mootoall]

Check out the Fochulan Lyricist and take inspiration from that? It's Bard/Druid, but could give you some ideas.

[gorfnab]

If you don't mind being evil you could go Bard 7/ Mindbender 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Mystic Theurge 8.

[mootoall]

You don't have to be evil, just non-good.

[erikun]

Wouldn't DMM Persist and the Extra Turning feat go a long way? I mean, I assume she'll be focusing on her Charisma in this case.

Perhaps you could allow her to cast Cleric spells through Charisma, possibly applying DMM to Bard spells as well, for taking Mystic Theurge. Or allow Mystic Theurge to progress Bardic Music along with spellcasting; if she's focused on buffing, she'll likely be interested in keeping that up to par as well.

[Optimator]

Wouldn't DMM Persist and the Extra Turning feat go a long way? I mean, I assume she'll be focusing on her Charisma in this case.

Perhaps you could allow her to cast Cleric spells through Charisma, possibly applying DMM to Bard spells as well, for taking Mystic Theurge.

The Divine Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantDivineBard) would work well for that.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd use Prestige Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard), adapted to advance a divine spellcasting class as per Divine Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantDivineBard) , and just use Cleric for spellcasting. You'd probably need to spend a feat on Apprentice: Entertainer (DMG2) to get Perform as a class skill, and pick up the Illusion domain to meet the spellcasting prerequisite (Silent Image, Command, Detect alignment). Also consider adding Divine Prankster (RoS) after two or five levels of Prestige Bard, since it will continue advancing your Inspire Courage and gives some additional class features without losing any spellcasting.

[CapnVan]

You don't have to be evil, just non-good.

Ur-Priest requires the PC to be evil.

[Andorax]

Just out of curiosity, is the Cleric part required?

Dragon 311 has a 5-level prestige class, the Green Whisperer, that's specifically a "Mystic Theurge" sort of class designed for strong bard/druid synergy, including full casting progression for both (but ONLY specifically bard and druid).

Continued to advance bardic knowledge and bardic music as well, and capped with an ability to allow bardic music to affect plants.

I haven't worked out the specifics, but some combination of bard/Druid/Green Whisperer initially. When that runs out, dip Sublime Chord and then Mystic Theurge the SC/Druid progressions?

[mootoall]

Ur-Priest requires the PC to be evil. Oh really? I don't remember that at all.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Savage Bard/UrPriest/Sublime Chord/MT?

[CapnVan]

I haven't worked out the specifics, but some combination of bard/Druid/Green Whisperer initially. When that runs out, dip Sublime Chord and then Mystic Theurge the SC/Druid progressions?

Skip the theurge and go Arcane Hierophant and/or Fochlucan Lyrist.

[Jeebers]

If you don't mind being evil you could go Bard 7/ Mindbender 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Mystic Theurge 8.

Sheesh. I never liked having multiple prestige classes on a single character. It gets ridiculous fast, not just in bookkeeping but also in sheer roleplaying. Think about it, how many people do YOU know belong to 5-6 exclusive, specialized occupations?

[PersonMan]

Thanks for the advice so far. I've spoken with the player again and she's chosen to use Improved Sigil(Krau) to allow the following build to work: Bard 1/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 6. Extra Music is almost definitely her 3rd level feat, but 6th and 9th levels are still open. Any ideas?


Sheesh. I never liked having multiple prestige classes on a single character. It gets ridiculous fast, not just in bookkeeping but also in sheer roleplaying. Think about it, how many people do YOU know belong to 5-6 exclusive, specialized occupations?

I'm in the "classes as metagame concepts" camp, myself, so it's just that the character has that set of abilities.

Besides, fluff is the first thing I'll change to make a concept work, whether I'm a player or a DM.