A blind Monk?

[madtinker]

So this idea is probably not original, but it was compelling to me this morning. What would it take to make this a workable combat character? It doesn't have to a monk, it could be any class at all, but monk seems like it would have the right feel.

I would start by asking the DM to give monks the fighter BAB to fix the general weakness of the class. With blindness, I would argue that it is reasonable to give a bonus to listen checks. Obviously I would need to take the blind fight feat.

Now if I could convince the DM that the blindness has given him perspective and he should get a bonus to wisdom checks (or an increase in his wisdom score) so much the better. And add a mechanic so that wisdom modifies the mischance roll, and I think you could pretty much mitigate the blindness in combat, and an increase in wisdom would help the monk AC bonus.

As for backstory, the blindness could be caused by anything. His eyes were burned out by enchanted red hot pokers when he was young, and he is questing to relieve his inner turmoil over whether he wants revenge or to simply know why. Or anything at all. Comments, suggestions?

[Lateral]

Well, with a Blindfold of True Darkness (MiC), you can get Blindsight out to 30 feet for 9000 gp. Alternatively, depending on how you interpret natural blindness working, a permanent custom item of Synesthete would get your normal visual capabilities back.

If you want to be able to work without relying on items, you can try taking the 5-foot radius Blindsight feat and a method of gaining Blindsense (or some other way of seeing your general surroundings.) You'll be able to see your enemies, and you'll hit them without miss chances since you'll be seeing them with Blindsight in melee range (as long as you're using a weapon with 5-foot reach.) An unarmed swordsage fits with the monk flavor and can get Blindsense at 9th level, so that could work.

[Hiro Protagonest]

If you're level 9 or higher, swordsage gives you the Hearing The Air stance.

[Lord Ruby34]

Actually just play unarmed swordsage if you like the monk feel.

[mootoall]

Also, just by the by, blind might qualify as a flaw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm), netting you an extra feat.

[madtinker]

I see murky eyed on the flaw list, but it seems like blindness would be a step above that. I guess I'm asking what how balanced would a wisdom increase be in exchange for blindness? +1 to wis? +2? Probably not more than that though.

[The Glyphstone]

Psion could work too, with Touchsight - starts at 60ft at level 5, and increases by 10ft. every 2 levels.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Psion could work too, with Touchsight - starts at 60ft at level 5, and increases by 10ft. every 2 levels.

Add Tashalatora.

[Lateral]

Psion could work too, with Touchsight - starts at 60ft at level 5, and increases by 10ft. every 2 levels.

One minute/level hurts, though, when you're trying to make up for a permanent, crippling weakness.

[Quietus]

There's a couple of options here, which have been presented to me when I came to the forum with a similar idea. The one I railed against, but have since come to agree with, involved having a character who is, technically, blind... but assume that he's adjusted for it. Stat-wise, you simply can't make Spot checks, and roleplay-wise, you need someone to show you around unfamiliar areas. But beyond that, you take no penalties for being blind. When you miss in combat, it's fluffed as them not being where you thought they were. This is a good way to model the Daredevil-type, who has developed his other senses enough to almost fully compensate for his lack of sight.

The others - honestly, blindness is a really, REALLY difficult thing to deal with mechanically. Putting this on a Monk base is going to put you well behind the rest of your party in damage output, particularly if your party optimizes at all. If nothing else, try and get your DM to give you a couple free feats for your blindness, if you MUST go with mechanical blindness.. Blind-Fight is one, and the other, there's a feat somewhere that gives a bonus to Listen for the purpose of locating people, and a couple of other benefits. It's been a few years, so I can't remember precisely what it's called, but I remember it being hugely useful to letting my own mechanically blind monk actually find targets, so that he could make use of that Blind-Fight feat.

[The Glyphstone]

One minute/level hurts, though, when you're trying to make up for a permanent, crippling weakness.

Anything will hurt though, in varying amounts. I'm of the firm opinion that the 'blind warrior' archtype is an immeasurably stupid idea, even by the unlikely hero standard - if you're utterly defenseless against anything more than 30/60ft. away, you have no business risking your life on a daily basis, whatever your motivations.

That being said, no reason to kill other people's fun. Blindsight's just hard to get, though - the Blindsight feat is only 5ft. radius, the Blindfold of True Darkness is kind of expensive, and like you said, Touchsight will drain your PP fast.
Synesthete (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/synesthete.htm) might be the most cost-effective option in terms of expenditure, again using Psion - 10min/level at 1 PP/casting is very efficient.

[madtinker]

Make touchsight a spell like ability activated by a concentration check and trade flurry of blows for it?

Edit: Just looked at the synesthete description. Great suggestion!

[The Glyphstone]

If you trade Flurry of Blows away, you're basically left with nothing - a gimped, low-BAB fighter with better saves and some nonsensical supernatural powers.

I'd say go with Monk 1/Psywar X using Talashatora, with Synesthete as your first power known. You'll want an exceptionally high Wisdom for enough PP to fuel near-constant Synesthete upkeep, but it's better than nothing.

[Jack DeCoeur]

Probably not really relevant to your build, but if you went with some kind of GISH and obtained a caster level, you could dip into 1 level of the Mindbender prestige class from Complete Arcane. With that you could take the Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness. Whilst it doesn't actually allow you to see the creatures you're fighting, you can pinpoint the exact square they are in and has a range of 100ft. With some feats such as Blindfight, as you've mentioned, the miss chance is a little less painful.

Actually, let's see, you could do it this way.
1 level of Sorcerer/Wizard (ensuring you pick up the spell Charm Person.)
4 levels of Monk/Unarmed Swordsage/Whatever melee class you prefer
The Practised Spellcaster (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105a&page=2) feat from Complete Arcane to pump your caster level to 5.
1 level dip into Mindbender then Mindsight.

Not really a low level option, but kicks in around level 7 level 6 by the look of it.

[Lyndworm]

This seems like a job for... The Blind PCs Association (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19906846/The_Blind_PCs_Association)!

[MeeposFire]

If you find the idea of blasting foes with ki based fire appealing then you could refluff the dragonfire adept to being a ki adept and they come with blindsense and their favored attack for only needs blindsense (breath weapons dont make attack rolls so miss chance is no problem).

[Lateral]

Probably not really relevant to your build, but if you went with some kind of GISH and obtained a caster level, you could dip into 1 level of the Mindbender prestige class from Complete Arcane. With that you could take the Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness. Whilst it doesn't actually allow you to see the creatures you're fighting, you can pinpoint the exact square they are in and has a range of 100ft. With some feats such as Blindfight, as you've mentioned, the miss chance is a little less painful.

Mindsight doesn't allow you to see the terrain at all, though, which is unfortunate.

[Cerlis]

if you are open to a completely homebrewned/fanwanked idea that makes (in my opinion) perfect sense i think you should just go with the whole concept of site and just deal with it.

What is blindness? being unable to see
When can you not see? When there is no light.
What is a limited form of sight When there is no light? Darkvision.
What is the main flaw of darkvision? it has limited range and you are unable to see color. The assumed limits of one who can hear the air.

So basically at low level it would essentially equal you trading off your Sight beyond 60 feet and ability to see color for these benefits, which in other situtions (Ie. being in total darkness with darkvision) are perfectly balanced.

I might make it something like this. (i'd like to point out many abilities like a raptorans flight are balanced and superior as they start out weak and advance with your hitdice. Thus scaling but not being overpowered at low level)

Keep in mind this is meant to provide a logical sensible WORKABLE way of adding this mechanic to the game. it provides both many advantages and disadvantages

Blind Warrior: You've grown up blind and learned how to defend yourself with your other senses.
In areas where Sound is not Silenced (such as with the silence spell) you are able to use the echos of sound to distinguish the locations of objects and people. Your range of "vision" extends to 60 feet and you are completely blind beyond this, you can also only distinguish the basic shapes of objects and must rely on your other senses to distinguish between creatures and inanimate objects. You are immune to visual based concealment and do not suffer from the miss chance most blind creatures do.
You take a -6 on all spot checks and fail any spot check to distuinguish fine features (Be they facial features, or the difference between a lizard and a tarantula).You Fail any search checks to find anything whos only distinguishing feature is color difference, mostly writing or pictures. But do not suffer a penalty (other than increased risk your yourself) on other search checks if you can bring your sense of touch to bear) You are immune to gaze attacks.
Your other senses heighten, Having grown up like this your wisdom has increased by 2 for you have learned to be more aware of your surroundings and all that happens around you. You also gain a +4 bonus on wisdom based checks excluding Spot and Search checks. Because you rely primarily off hearing you have learned to distinguish sounds as easily as others distuinguish color or shapes. You do not mistake one sound for another unless the Disguise or Bluff skill, mimic ability or simular ability is being applied. in which you gain an additional +4 to your skill checks and Saves to apply.
Though you get +4 on your saves to distinguish a false sound (such as ventriloquism or the mimic ability) you suffer a -4 penalty against all other sonic based attacks(such as a Sirens call, or a Deafening roar ability) do to your heightened sensitivity.
Your other senses heighten and you also gain scent and tremorsense out to 5 feet. Meaning even if you cannot distuinguish people from your maximum range, you can tell their exact location when you are within 5 feet if they are touching the ground (unless they hold perfectly still such as with the Gargoyle's freeze ability) and have a scent. You can also distuinguish people by scent (unless of course if they disguised that too).
At 5 hitdice your "Vision" increases by 10 feet and your scent and tremorsense by 5 feet. You are able to Distinguish creatures and objects appart, though the fine details still alude you (such as the difference between two human males of simular height and build and dress). Because your ability to distinguish shapes has improved your penalty to spot checks is reduced by 2 for a total of a-4. And your bonus and penalties on wisdom checks and saves is increased by 2 as well (for a total of +/- 6)

at 10 Hitdice your "Vision" increases by another 10 feat and your scent and tremorsense by 5 feet. your Spot skill penalty reduces by another 2 , your wisdom bonuses and penalties by another 2. you can now see fine detail with your hearing as easily as sighted folk, though color still aludes you.

[Psyren]

Synesthete/Touchsight are the way to go with this. Not only will they solve your problems in combat, but psionics will solve the monk's other issues as well.

An Ardent with substituted mantles can easily get both powers, and a boatload of PP to boot. Communication is the best fit, though you could make a case for Light/Darkness, Force (for Touchsight) or even Deception.

[Zonugal]

I see murky eyed on the flaw list, but it seems like blindness would be a step above that. I guess I'm asking what how balanced would a wisdom increase be in exchange for blindness? +1 to wis? +2? Probably not more than that though.

Instead of gaining a slight bump in wisdom perhaps look at gaining the Quick Reconnoiter feat from Complete Adventurer.

Regarding the use of Synesthete maybe look into picking Kalastar as your race for a boost in power points. If you didn't want to multi-class out of Monk (although mixing it with psionic classes is a very wise choice) the Hidden Talent (Synesthete) feat can offer up the power.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, Unarmed Swordsage is the best "brawler"-type shell for this. The mentioned Monk/Psion Tashalatora works too, and is stronger, but UA SS is probably simpler and more natural. Both are fine, tho. Except, yeah, when needing to interact with anything at any actual distance...

[holywhippet]

You could dip into cleric and then go for the Sacred Fist PrC. They get blindsense out to 10 feet at level 6.

Of course, since D&D has spells that restore sight to the blind (remove blindness/deafness) and can replace lost eyes (regeneration) it's hard to justify a blind character.

[Laura Eternata]

Of course, since D&D has spells that restore sight to the blind (remove blindness/deafness) and can replace lost eyes (regeneration) it's hard to justify a blind character.

Well, one character I played sort of justified it. She was a dread necromancer with the necropolitan template, and I noticed that the Right of Crucumigration's description specifically stated that a level plus 1000 XP was lost, "Immediately upon opening its undead eyes." My solution? Sew my eyes shut. While obviously not the most powerful character I've ever played, the combination of Blind Fight and Hear the Unseen (my DM was nice enough to give me a hefty bonus to Listen in lieu of a bonus feat for the flaw) made her useful enough and brilliantly fun to play.

[BlueInc]

Just for fun I'd like to add that I had a player who played a blind monk in a campaign. We didn't give it any kind of stat adjustments - it was purely an RP thing.

The character (and player and campaign) was silly to begin with. He would give out tracts to people that he wrote himself (sometimes they were legible, sometimes not) and would pretend to read maps for a small amount of time before admitting he was blind.