Paladins-Smite Evil

[Lordof Dorkness]

Being able to smite evil is cool, but one problem: Times per day.
every 4th level you can smite one more time per day...

that SUCKS. by the time you're fighting balors you can use all of your smites up pretty quickly

[Girshtop]

There are many feats and PrCs that allow for extra uses per day.

I'm with you; I also think that 1 per 4 levels is really low.

[Kyuu Himura]

There's the Extra Smite feat in complete warrior, that gives you 2 more smite attempts per day, the Smiting Enhancement from Magic item Compendium for and additional smite and that incarnum feat (Sapphire?? Azure??) Smite, another attempt right there.
Then there's Fist of Raziel from Book of Exalted Deeds that gives you a ton of extra smites and nice stuff to go with them.

But, if you still think that's not enough, ask your DM if he lets you make smites per encounter or play a pathfinder paladin.

And yes, Smite Evil is cool, I am sure half of the posters around here will be more than happy to tell you why is not so optimal, but it is still cool.

[Lordof Dorkness]

yeah, i was just wondering if making the number of smites per day equal to the norm + your Charisma modifier would be better

[MeeposFire]

I like the idea of changing smite to more of an encounter based mechanic.

[ExemplarofAvg]

I smite Good... But yeah I like Extra Smite, it helps my Paladin of Tyranny/Blackguard crush the do-gooders. I'm lv 10 and I smite Good 2/day from Paladin levels, 2/day from the extra smite feat. 2/day because I had paladin levels (house-ruled) and then 1/day almost 2/day (one more level) bringing my grand total of smite good per day up to 7/day halfway to having 8/day. So yeah Extra Smite is a good feat. I haven't gone into too many other extra options because I feel I'm doing pretty well already.

[Ravens_cry]

Pathfinder Paladin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin) is major fix that really feels like a "Warrior of Good" in my opinion.

[Vladislav]

If your DM doesn't like the PF Paladin, take Charging Smite from Complete Champion, which is a really great replacement for your Paladin's mount. You get extra damage when smiting, and better yet, if you happen to miss, the smite attempt isn't lost.

[Mordokai]

Ask your DM to houserule it to number of smites = your paladin level. It still won't be enough to make a paladin overpowered in any way, but should give you a nice boost in power.

[FMArthur]

Maybe you could try to work the Pathfinder Paladin's Smite into your games. It doesn't give you much more of it, but makes each use matter for longer. Basically, you spend each use of Smite Evil to flag one enemy you can see as a Smite Evil target for the rest of the day and apply the usual bonuses as if you were constantly spending D&D3.5 Smites on that target. You also get Cha to AC and a DR bypass against them.

Pretty spiffy, eh?

[hivedragon]

Really smite evil is too weak. The swashbuckler adds their int bonus to damage as many times as they want regardless of the alignment of the target. I would give the paladin always add cha bonus to damage and have smite evil deal double total damage.

[Lordof Dorkness]

Yeah, that would be good.
I am a DM and i shall likely incorporate that into the paladin

[Adamantrue]

I had a Homebrew Feat that either let you use a Turn Attempt, or spend an additional Smite Attempt (can't recall which) that let the Smite bonuses last for Charisma modifier rounds. Required Extra Smite.

I can try and hunt it down, if its something that interested you.

[navar100]

Maybe you could try to work the Pathfinder Paladin's Smite into your games. It doesn't give you much more of it, but makes each use matter for longer. Basically, you spend each use of Smite Evil to flag one enemy you can see as a Smite Evil target for the rest of the day and apply the usual bonuses as if you were constantly spending D&D3.5 Smites on that target. You also get Cha to AC and a DR bypass against them.

Pretty spiffy, eh?

It's not rest of the day; it's rest of the encounter or target is dead. If your target runs away and combat ends, so too does the Smite.

It's still awesome.

[Ravens_cry]

It's not rest of the day; it's rest of the encounter or target is dead. If your target runs away and combat ends, so too does the Smite.

It's still awesome.
Actually, specifically speaking, it says (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin) until "next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability."
Which means if you have encounter with a Smite marked baddie who runs away and you fight them again later that day, the Smite is still active.

[FMArthur]

It says until you rest and recover the uses of Smite Evil in the PFSRD and my book as well. You must have an earlier version, navar.

[Person_Man]

Relevant Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10289492).

It's not actually that bad of a mechanic if you're a Pathfinder Paladin, Binder, Cyran Avenger, Ordained Champion, Triadic Knight, Fist of Raziel, and/or Cleric, especially if you invest some moderate resources into augmenting it. It just happens to suck for the core Paladin.

[Ravens_cry]

It says until you rest and recover the uses of Smite Evil in the PFSRD and my book as well. You must have an earlier version, navar.
I got me book as soon as it was available, it was in fact the first one the store sold, and it said "until rest". It must be a houserule that was forgotten to be a houserule.

[navar100]

Reread my book. I stand corrected.

As I always say to my DM, I can read my gaming books 10 times, but it's the 11th time that I discover what it really says. These details get lost in the plethora of information.

Heal cures ability score damage.

Greater Magic Weapon works on 50 arrows. Upon this discovery I used it a lot on the ranger's arrows. The player hadn't declared a deity for his character at the time. He too was amazed of the spell's effect. He declared his character's deity to be my cleric's; thus, through this spell my cleric converted someone.

[Killer Angel]

There's the Extra Smite feat in complete warrior, that gives you 2 more smite attempts per day

while this is true, wasting a precious feat to gain a few smite attempts, it's not worth it, and doesn't fix the problem at its core: 1 smite / 4 level, is ridiculous.

[Captain Caveman]

One thing we tried out was giving the paladin another smite ever 2 levels (like a fighter bonus feat). It mostly worked alright and scaled well with levels.

[Midnight_v]

Pathfinder Paladin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin) is major fix that really feels like a "Warrior of Good" in my opinion.

I really don't find it to be THAT much of an improvment honestly. Onewinged4ngel had a paladin that was well recieved.

I dm for a a couple games a week and 1 monthly game, with some heavy work load friends. While I've been wanting to post this in the hombrew section of Bg's for a while I'll post it here cause it might be of help to another dm, or player out there.
So here goes.

Changes:
As smite evil except, Damage = Paladin level X the Maximum number of class granted smite attempts each day.
How it Scales:
Level 1: Smite 1/day, smite deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level
Level 5: Smite 2/day, smite deals 2 extra points dmg/paladin level
Level 10: Smite 3/day, smite deals 3 extra points dmg/paladin level
Level 15: Smite 4/day, smite deals 4 extra points dmg/paladin level
*Capstone*
Level 20: Smite 5/day, smite deals 5 extra points dmg/paladin level

This is designed to look the Tob boys Square in the eye. Honestly. . .
Strike of Perfect Clarity/Whiteraven Hammer/Tiger Deathblow and even Strike of Righteous vitality, are sometimes absurdly strong melee powers. (Which is to say... still weak compared to what the Npc wizards are doing)

Not that I have a problem with them mind you, I just had 1 player whose favorite class was pally and was actually like "Fix this discrepancy, please".
There's actually MORE to these changes if anyones interested, but we're still tightening the bolts.
Basically where it goes from here is the inclusion of a "Smite Effects" list that you can choose various effects and apply them to your effects.
Here's 3 quick ones:

If your smite successfull strikes the target:
Level 1: Target must Fort Save or be Knocked Down
Level 5: All allies other than the paladin gain 2 temporary hp per pally level
Level 20: Dumb,Deaf, and Blind: The target of this Smite must make 3 saves
Fort: vs Feeblemind Effect 1d4 rounds
Ref: vs Blindness: 1 day
Will: vs Dazed 1d4 Rounds
All evil opponents within 50ft must make a reflex save to shield thier eyes from the blinding holy radiance or be blinded for 1 day. This blindness as well as the blindness of the struck target, baffles alternate method of "sight" as well: Blindisight,Blindsense,Mindsight, Lifesight, Tremorsense, and anything that would otherwise allow the smited to "See".

Now so far the way the mechanic works is we creat a lot of potential things the paladin can do but... each of those enhancements is only available Once per day, and only on a successful smite.
You get more out of taking Extra Smiting this way, and the player shouldn't feel worthless when someone yell out "Diamond Nightmare Blade!" or when the Cleric manages to "Banish" (or any SoD) the Hezrou's you're fighting.
Again if anyones interested I'll do a full write up of all I have, but I find this to a good answer to smite/per day being crappy, making them stronger, more versatile and more interesting.

[KingofMadCows]

I think they should have made smite a full round action and add a bunch of additional bonuses based on level like automatic critical, doubling strength bonus to weapon, temporarily removing DR, daze, paralysis, etc.

The whole idea of smiting is one big concentrated attack using all the force you can muster. It doesn't really make any sense to be able to do that and then still be able to make several other regular attacks.

[Midnight_v]

Applying one of the effects has been tested as a standard action strike.
We never limited your full attack following a smite, and kept the action the same so people could smite on AoO's.
I've volleyed making smite a once/round, action fully to keep people from novaing... but... I can understand a paladin novaing out when faced with a balor or some greater undead or some such.

[Swooper]

Onewinged4ngel had a paladin that was well recieved.
I second using that paladin fix, and raise you a link (http://web.archive.org/web/20080506095543/http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045). Per Encounter smites are awesome. Fax_Celestis also made a pretty good one (that I don't have a link to), but it used kind of unconventional mechanics so I guess it's not for everyone.

[Midnight_v]

I second using that paladin fix, and raise you a link (http://web.archive.org/web/20080506095543/http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045). Per Encounter smites are awesome. Fax_Celestis also made a pretty good one (that I don't have a link to), but it used kind of unconventional mechanics so I guess it's not for everyone.

Damn. I find it demoralizing that I wrote all that and all I got in response was a link to Ow4's pally... yay.
Well score 1 for presentation. Smiting someone 5 times in one full attack would till be +100 damage I guess. It has a lot more fluff and I guess I'll have to paint mine after a simliar fashion (visually speaking) to get some serious critique on it.
It does have some interesting aura's...

[Ravens_cry]

I really don't find it to be THAT much of an improvment honestly. Onewinged4ngel had a paladin that was well recieved.

Each to their own I suppose, but I actually had fun playing a Paladin with that, especially in the upper levels where DR becomes a royal pain in all places rectal.

[Lyndworm]

yeah, i was just wondering if making the number of smites per day equal to the norm + your Charisma modifier would be better
I use that, and a little more, to buff up the Paladin. The complete list is as follows:


Paladins can be of any alignment, but must choose one of the four Unearthed Arcana variants to determine class features.

Paladins can Smite Cha Mod+1/4 level/day.

Smite affects every attack in the round, including AoOs.

Smite works with ranged attacks

Lay on Hands heals a number of HP equal to 3+Paladin level x Charisma modifier.

Remove Disease is part of Lay on Hands and costs a number of "HP" equal to the DC of the disease removed.

Paladins have a good Will save in addition to Fortitude.

Paladin Casting is based on Charisma.

Serenity (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Serenity) is available as an ACF.
I know that it's not much, but my players find it a little more fun. What else can I ask for?