Truestrike.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, So I've stumbled on a lot of neat sounding builds over time, and found that one of the recurring flaws in a lot of them is all the penalty's you get too your attack rolls.

And then I stumbled on Truestrike, and a though occurred too me, this would be great for offsetting those penalty's. Now if only it didn't require significant investment in spell caster levels to get to use it even a few times a day.

So, my question is, is there a way too get Truestrike too work all day, or at least 4 times a day for an entire encounter so that it's there when you need it?

[hivedragon]

It's on the assassin's spell list, you get it rather quick and you aren't half bad at melee.

[Zaq]

A wand of True Strike is a trivial 750 gp, so as long as you can use that kind of wand (either through UMD or class levels), you can get as much True Strike as you want. Even as early as, say, level 5, you can still have 4 or 5 of them without even using half your WBL, and that's a lot of charges.

No, the big problem with True Strike isn't getting enough of it. That's easy. The problems with it are twofold. First, it takes a standard action to use. This means that unless you've got a way of getting extra actions, a way of quickening it, or a way of attacking that doesn't take a standard action, you're losing a turn every time you cast True Strike. The second problem is that it only applies to a single attack. If you're a Wizard who just needs that heavily metamagicked Orb of Fire to hit, that's not a problem. If you're a fightin' man who wants to make three or four swings, though? Yeah, that kinda sucks.

In most cases, you'd be better off with a long-lasting Cleric buff or three, the Wraithstrike spell (in wand form or slot form), or something else of that nature. What, specifically, are you trying to do?

[Metahuman1]

True, but I'm looking to get the effect of the spell for longer durations, either the entire effective adventuring day, or four times a day for long enough, say 10-15 rounds per use, that the fight can go from stat to finish.

And I should have said this earlier, but I'd prefer an option that is none evil.

Edit: Swordsage'd.

I'm attempting to get a boost, either at the start of the day that will carry me all day, or at the start of the encounter that will carry me all encounter at worse, that can effectively offset a large attack roll penalty incurred form doing a number of things that either increase the number of attacks put out and/or the damage of each attack, Things like TWF, Snap Kick, Power Attack, Whirling Frenzy, Ext, in order to make those things more effective, particularly in combination with one another.

I The reason I want this to be either once a day at the start of the day or at worse once an encounter at or right before the start of the encounter, is that I still want these builds to get the joy of being able to use full attacks and getting full benefit out of there extra attacks.

[Zaq]

Technically, you can Persist True Strike, and have it last 24 hours. HOWEVER, to do so is an utter waste of time, since you'll notice that the spell explicitly applies to only one attack. No matter how long it lasts, it's only going to benefit you on a single swing. Period.

[PollyOliver]

Problem is, even if you get it, it only works on 1 attack (not even 1 round of attacks). How about wraithstrike? Turns your attacks into touch attacks, and it lasts a full round (and is also on the assassin list) as a swift action.

Alternately, if you can afford to dip wizard and have your heart set on true strike, buy a couple 1st level pearls of power and cast true strike to your heart's content.

Edit: and it'll cost a crap-ton to do it, but because wraithstrike has an actual duration unlike true strike, you can get a continuous item.

[Jallorn]

Which is why you get gauntlets of truestrike. Use-activated or Continuous, depending on your interpretation. Only 2000 gp. Cheesy? Hell yes.

[faceroll]

A wand of sanctum spell quickened truestrike would do it. Bit pricey, but you get +20 to one attack roll as a swift action.

It'd be easier to use a ring of jumping, battle jump, and shock trooper, or a wand/persistent wraithstrike.

[big teej]

how broken would it be if....

1) true strike were made into a move action?
2) it were allowed to apply to all iterative attacks?

[Metahuman1]

Which is why you get gauntlets of truestrike. Use-activated or Continuous, depending on your interpretation. Only 2000 gp. Cheesy? Hell yes.

Ok, so Truestike is apparently not what I want here, unless the gauntlets Jallorn just mentioned would allow for the bonus to be green lighted on the extra attacks.

[PollyOliver]

how broken would it be if....

1) true strike were made into a move action?
2) it were allowed to apply to all iterative attacks?

Well...for one, at most levels it would be significantly better than what is already considered to be a very good (for gishes/melee half-casters, not straight casters) second/third level spell.

Also, low level necromancers everywhere would be auto-hitting with their rays (which often don't allow a save) in a single turn instead of two (while still getting another quickened spell that turn at later levels, which auto-hits also because you upped the duration--add in twinned split rays and mid level wizards get even more hilarious than usual).

[big teej]

Well...for one, at most levels it would be significantly better than what is already considered to be a very good (for gishes/melee half-casters, not straight casters) second/third level spell.

Also, low level necromancers everywhere would be auto-hitting with their rays (which often don't allow a save) in a single turn instead of two (while still getting another quickened spell that turn at later levels, which auto-hits also because you upped the duration--add in twinned split rays and mid level wizards get even more hilarious than usual).

hm...

very well.

how about simply reducing it to a move action for a Duskblade?

not allowing it to apply to iteratives, simply reducing to move action.
for the one class.

[PollyOliver]

hm...

very well.

how about simply reducing it to a move action for a Duskblade?

not allowing it to apply to iteratives, simply reducing to move action.
for the one class.

Hm...if duskblades don't get many ray-or-suck spells, it's probably fine. I'm sure there's some way to exploit it to result in ridiculousness, but if you've got a specific player or something in mind for this and/or restrict it to either just actual attacks or just actual attacks and duskblade spells, it's probably fine.

Edit: just to be sure, if you allow it to work on spells as well, you're still allowing essentially an autohit of your bbeg with something like ray of exhaustion, which will stack with other effects that lower strength or dex without the added investment of a high level spell slot or an additional round or their quicken class feature. Which if there's an optimized wizard in your campaign is fine, whatever, give the duskblade all the toys he wants. But if you're trying to limit things to a certain level, keep that in mind.

[Drelua]

Jallorn's gauntlets would still have to be used as a standard action. To have it quickened would cost 90,000, which may be to high, especially since it only applies to your first attack. It would be useful, but not 90,000 gp useful, I don't think.

A brilliant energy weapon might help, but that would also be very expensive. Then you could make it hideaway, just for fun, and you'd have a lightsaber!

[Zaq]

hm...

very well.

how about simply reducing it to a move action for a Duskblade?

not allowing it to apply to iteratives, simply reducing to move action.
for the one class.

They already get an ability to auto-quicken a certain number of spells per day. The Duskblades I've played with have almost always used those auto-quickens on True Strike. Just throwing that out there.

[big teej]

They already get an ability to auto-quicken a certain number of spells per day. The Duskblades I've played with have almost always used those auto-quickens on True Strike. Just throwing that out there.

I'd forgotten about that :smalltongue:

[Drelua]

My apologies, I don't know much about any casters. Still, it would be nice to have unlimited uses/day. Your first attack in a round basically WILL hit, unless of course dice seem to hate you as much as they do me...

[Tvtyrant]

A Swiftblade with 9 levels can use a true strike as its extra action, letting you true strike and charge or whatever.

[big teej]

Hm...if duskblades don't get many ray-or-suck spells, it's probably fine. I'm sure there's some way to exploit it to result in ridiculousness, but if you've got a specific player or something in mind for this and/or restrict it to either just actual attacks or just actual attacks and duskblade spells, it's probably fine.

Edit: just to be sure, if you allow it to work on spells as well, you're still allowing essentially an autohit of your bbeg with something like ray of exhaustion, which will stack with other effects that lower strength or dex without the added investment of a high level spell slot or an additional round or their quicken class feature. Which if there's an optimized wizard in your campaign is fine, whatever, give the duskblade all the toys he wants. But if you're trying to limit things to a certain level, keep that in mind.

missed this response earlier.

yes I was planning on limiting it to basic melee/ranged attacks only. for a specific player.

he's in a geniea pig group. and is trying out a ranged version of the duskblade.

[FMArthur]

Throwing my vote in for 'Wraithstrike is basically what you want'. Finding a way to reliably succeed on your UMD check is all you need to do if you haven't got it on your spell lists.

[myancey]

You could play 3E, where they had a bow of true strike in the DMG for like 2k.


Which is why you get gauntlets of truestrike. Use-activated or Continuous, depending on your interpretation. Only 2000 gp. Cheesy? Hell yes.

If it was continuous, wouldn't it still only apply to the first attack (making continuous useless)? And if it was use-activated, it would still cost a standard action, wouldn't it?

And I would second (or third, or fourth) the wraithstrike idea. Touch AC is generically pretty easy to hit--most colossal monsters having a touch AC of 1 or so (a limited example, but touch AC is seriously weak for most).

[Drelua]

Actually, at a cost of 4500gp for a wand, if you have UMD, or 12,000gp for an at-will with no chance of failure(and no charge limit), I'd say wraithstrike is definitely a better idea, though I'm not sure which of those 2 options I'd go with.

[JohnDaBarr]

Try getting wand of Divine Power (lvl 4, cleric spell from PhB).

You get bonus in attack equal to your character lvl, +6 str, and 1 temp hp per caster lvl, duration round/lvl.

The original caster lvl of the wand will be lvl 7, but you can get it for higher and 7 round's are mostly enough.

[Metahuman1]

how broken would it be if....

1) true strike were made into a move action?
2) it were allowed to apply to all iterative attacks?
If It did the latter I would likely not have a problem.

[tyckspoon]

If it was continuous, wouldn't it still only apply to the first attack (making continuous useless)? And if it was use-activated, it would still cost a standard action, wouldn't it?


Nup. Use-activated means triggered as part of some other action. It's relatively rare in printed items, since most of the things that would reasonably be use-activated items just give always-on bonuses instead, but you could design something like Boots of Striding and Springing as a Use-Activated item that cast Longstrider and Jump on you whenever you took a move action. Similarly, the traditional True Strike widget is a sword/gauntlet that casts True Strike whenever you begin to attack somebody.

[Alefiend]

You get bonus in attack equal to your character lvl

I'm afraid you're reading that wrong. The spell lets you use your level as your BAB (like a fighter), so a poor or medium progression character like a wizard or a cleric attacks like a fighter. It does not give a bonus equal to your level.

[ericgrau]

The typical cheesy ways are wraithstrike (via wand or gish) and shock trooper (for power attack only).

Otherwise you're mostly out of luck. At very high levels you can dip 1 level of wizard and use a lesser metamagic rod of quicken to cast true strike as a swift to get it on one attack per round. A glove of storing or quick draw can get the pesky rod out of your way before it's time to swing. If you need more true strikes you grab pearls of power (1000 gp each) to get your prepared true strikes back. Pretty ho-hum to pull off at epic levels regardless of build (only takes a 1 level dip), again a bit expensive earlier than that.

The general way without tricks is to simply get a high attack bonus via class, gear, buff spells and such. It's not spectacular but it helps quite a bit.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, so riddle me this. If, I were to find SOME WAY, that was rules legal, to Activate True Strike when ever I made an attack roll, would I then be able to add the bonus too each individual attack?

Like I had a way too activate it for free as a part of swinging the sword or knocking the arrow too the bow?

Yes, I know, "but there's no way to get it to activate like that!"

What I'm asking here is, if there were, would it then allow me to effectively get the bonus on every attack I made during the round?

[PollyOliver]

Yes. Every time it activates it applies to the next attack roll you make. If you can activate it just before each of five attacks, it should apply to each of them.

[Drelua]

Judging by the wording, I'd say that if you could find a way to do it repeatedly in a round and convince your DM to allow it, it would work, but neither of those things will be easy, if they're even possible.

Edit: Damn, ninja'd.

[HappyBlanket]

It would make it the defacto greatest boon to gishes since the Abjurant Champion, but yes, that would function.

[ericgrau]

Ok, so riddle me this. If, I were to find SOME WAY, that was rules legal, to Activate True Strike when ever I made an attack roll, would I then be able to add the bonus too each individual attack?

Like I had a way too activate it for free as a part of swinging the sword or knocking the arrow too the bow?

Yes, I know, "but there's no way to get it to activate like that!"

What I'm asking here is, if there were, would it then allow me to effectively get the bonus on every attack I made during the round?

Ya a 4,000,000 gp custom item. Even the supposed 2,000 gp item doesn't even begin to work on a spell with a 1 round duration, not to mention it'd still only work on one attack anyway. If you're not going to play it straight then cheese it out with a wand of wraithstrike and be done with it.

[NecroRick]

how broken would it be if....

1) true strike were made into a move action?
2) it were allowed to apply to all iterative attacks?

Have the PC in question research a variation that does all that...

BUT ... for goodness sake fix the ridiculously broken +20
That modifier is way out of whack for other similar abilities of a similar level.

I would halve it for every one of the restrictions you take off.

In your example I would halve it and then halve it again, dropping it down to +5. It would still be OMG way better than any similar effect of that level, but at least it's not silly broken then.

[Thurbane]

The Zenythri race (MM2) get Truestrike as an SLA 1/day. If they take the Magic in the Blood feat (PGtF) which they should qualify for, then it becomes 3/day. If you then take Quicken Spell Like Ability at 12th level, you get 3 Quickened Truestrike's per day. That's if you consider 2 feats and a +1LA race worth it.

[Studoku]

Throwing my vote in for 'Wraithstrike is basically what you want'. Finding a way to reliably succeed on your UMD check is all you need to do if you haven't got it on your spell lists.

Seconded (or thirded or whatever). Touch ACs on most enemies are around 10 and should be trivial to hit, especially if you can deny your opponent their dex too (Ring of Blinking?)

[MeeposFire]

Touch AC is a better deal most of the time anyway considering you can get insight bonuses for attack and damage with the knowledge devotion feat.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, Thank you all for your Input, it's been most helpful and I think I got what I needed. =)

[ubergeek63]

Throwing my vote in for 'Wraithstrike is basically what you want'. Finding a way to reliably succeed on your UMD check is all you need to do if you haven't got it on your spell lists.

UMD +10 item would cost 10K

[ericgrau]

That requires optional custom item rules and is a decent chunk of money until levels 13+. It's only a DC 20 check. If you can't make the DC then dip a single level in a caster for automatic success.

[faceroll]

Ok, so riddle me this. If, I were to find SOME WAY, that was rules legal, to Activate True Strike when ever I made an attack roll, would I then be able to add the bonus too each individual attack?

Like I had a way too activate it for free as a part of swinging the sword or knocking the arrow too the bow?

Yes, I know, "but there's no way to get it to activate like that!"

What I'm asking here is, if there were, would it then allow me to effectively get the bonus on every attack I made during the round?

Ur-Priest Ruby Knight Vindicator (yeah, I don't know how that one works, that's breaking some serious rules) can burn turn attempts to get extra swift actions. Have a wand chamber with a wand of sanctum quickened true strike (lvl 4 spell), then UMD that. You also have to be a dragonwrought kobold and be capable of casting 9th level if you want to do this before level 21, so you can count as an epic creature. Then take the feat multispell enough times to cast as many quickened spells in a round as you want.

[big teej]

Have the PC in question research a variation that does all that...

BUT ... for goodness sake fix the ridiculously broken +20
That modifier is way out of whack for other similar abilities of a similar level.

I would halve it for every one of the restrictions you take off.

In your example I would halve it and then halve it again, dropping it down to +5. It would still be OMG way better than any similar effect of that level, but at least it's not silly broken then.

hello new houserule... I'll be testing you out next session.

-hands you a cookie-

[ericgrau]

Truestrike could give +500 and it would still be a pretty weak spell. You usually hit more times if you spend 2 rounds attacking rather than 1 casting true strike and 1 attacking.

Making it a move or swift action OTOH is very powerful for the same reason, and even a +5 as a move action would be tremendous at low levels before you get your second attack. A +5 as a swift is pretty huge at all levels. For a 1st level spell on a gish I'd take a +3 as a move or a +1 as a swift and it'd still be good. Budgeting your actions is everything. The cost of a 1st level spell is almost nothing. Heck gimme a wand with a +1 as a swift and I just got back the attack bonus I lost (well at least on one attack) from dipping a level in a casting class, which was the main drawback of the dip in the first place.

[CigarPete]

Wraithstrike is what you want. My DM gives me dirty looks every time I use it. 'Yes, you hit it...' I figured power attack in addition to it would be too cheesy though.

[Mathemagician7]

I'm actually playing a build that seeks to exploit True Strike. I'm not sure if it will help you, but for what it's worth:

with 1 sorc level, you can learn true strike and cast it at least twice per day. at level 5 you can start taking dragon disciple levels. Extra strength & Nat AC is nice for anyone on the front lines, but mostly you're there for extra casts per day. Then pick up leap attack and power attack. Dump all your BAB and rely on true strike to hit REALLY HARD with a two-hander. 4 levels of DD should be plenty - only lose 1 BAB, good stopping point for saves, 2 Nat AC, 4 Str, 3 extra casts, natural weapons and a breath weapon - not bad.

Obviously this build is sub-optimal since, as everyone has been pointing out, you lose a turn of attacks to cast true strike, and you lose iterative attacks, but I've been playing this character for a few weeks now, and it's really satisfying, even if it isn't doing as much average damage as some other players.

[Ted_Stryker]

Ya a 4,000,000 gp custom item. Even the supposed 2,000 gp item doesn't even begin to work on a spell with a 1 round duration, not to mention it'd still only work on one attack anyway. If you're not going to play it straight then cheese it out with a wand of wraithstrike and be done with it.
Heh, it'll only cost 4,000,000 gp if you're lucky. The groups I've played in ruled that a custom True Strike item costs 8,000,000 gp, which is in line with the cost of a +20 enhancement bonus for a weapon. And I think that's still a bit of a break, in that an enhancement bonus is tied to a particular weapon, whereas a continuous-use Ring (or whatever) of True Strike would apply to any attack you make.

For those curious where these numbers are coming from:

Epic Magic Item Basics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/basics.htm)
Creating Magic Items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm)

A continuous-use True Strike item that grants a +20 insight bonus to all attack rolls easily exceeds the threshold of a +5 bonus for attacks that would keep an item non-epic. Then the regular magic item pricing gets you up to 400K gp if you treat it like Bracers of Defense, or 800K gp if you treat it like a weapon enhancement. You could even make a case that it could be as high 1 million gp due to the fact that it's an insight bonus instead of an enhancement bonus, so that the base cost is 2500 gp instead of 2000 before multiplying by the square of the bonus granted. After all that there's the 10X price multiplier for epic magic items, giving you a price tag in the 4-10 million gp range.

[ericgrau]

Oops forgot to multiply by 2,000 instead of 1,000. Ya Ted got it right. Or ya even more because it's an insight bonus that stacks.

[stack]

Well, one use I found is for a pathfinder magus (slightly off-topic). You can use spell combat to cast and attack ala two-weapon fighting, with the spell as one weapon. Truestrike gives you +20, -2 penalty for spell combat, gets you a +18 to one attack. Either cast defensively or 5-foot step to make the attack. Great with a spell storing weapon loaded with magus enhancements.

[Karoht]

Aha! I knew the Ring of Truestrike (which functioned/refreshed continuously, thereby granting the +20 to every attack) that someone in my party had was house ruled in.

[Person_Man]

You may wish to consider using Greater Magic Weapon and/or Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion) and/or Inlindl School (Drow of the Underdark) and/or X to Y bonuses (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732). Each is capable of some fairly impressive, mostly all day bonuses to-hit. More importantly, they won't require you to spend an action just before you attack.

[Flame of Anor]

A wand of sanctum spell quickened truestrike would do it. Bit pricey, but you get +20 to one attack roll as a swift action.


I believe wands always take a standard action to activate.

[tyckspoon]

I believe wands always take a standard action to activate.

Rules Compendium errata/clarification: Spell Trigger items take the same action as the spell they contain. Makes Swift wands useful and removes the loophole of wanding a long-cast-time spell.

[Thurbane]

It's extremely annoying that this important clarification was made in what was basically the last 3.5 book published, which so many people don't have.

Sorry to harp, but I think it would have been a nice gesture to make RC open content, or to publish an updated SRD with the changes from RC included. Well, I can dream I guess. :smallamused:

[tyckspoon]

It's extremely annoying that this important clarification was made in what was basically the last 3.5 book published, which so many people don't have.

Sorry to harp, but I think it would have been a nice gesture to make RC open content, or to publish an updated SRD with the changes from RC included. Well, I can dream I guess. :smallamused:

Oh, 100% agreed. I think pay-for-access errata is the dumbest thing WotC ever did with a D&D product, and they have a lot of dumb things to answer for.