Pathfinder Fi/Ro advice request

[Reltzik]

I'm likely to get into a Pathfinder gestalt game soon. Being completely new to pathfinder and having touched gestalt only once, I thought I'd come here for ideas.

My current ideas involve a Fighter-Rogue. I've got a good idea for backstory and this suggests to me a tough, versatile character with poor will saves, and also I've always loved the customization potential in skills and feats those two classes offer. In particular, I want to deviate from the standard 3.x DnD tank role (soak up and deal out massive melee damage), and go for a more 4ed control role.

In particular, I'm imagining a Guisarme, combat reflexes, and a whole lot of combat maneuvers. Hordes of charging critters coming near me and being nerfed because of disarming and trips. (Charges fail if they get tripped up and can't complete the charge.) And then AoOs they provoke by standing or drawing a backup weapon. And yes, I'm aware it will never work out this perfectly.

However, I'm not like this guy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html). Even if I could find a perfect formula on the game grid, I'd grow bored using it over and over and over. Rather, I like my tactical combat to be like a chess game -- careful consideration of moves, placement, and effects. So I'd want a build that gave me lots of options, but options I'd have to think about, master, and use intelligently.

Sneak attacks would early on be derived from flanking, but I'm thinking they wouldn't start shining until 6th level or later. Mostly I'd want the "don't let the party die from traps" and "get into and out of places" skills. I particularly like that pathfinder rogues get to take lots of combat-type feats as talents; that will help my build and leveling progression.

We'd be starting fairly near levels 1-2. I don't know what resources we'd be using so I'm sticking to Core in my request. A few feats in APG seemed drool-worthy, so I'm sticking them in in Italics.

Power Attack -> Cleave -> Great Cleave

-> Stunning Assault
Combat Reflexes -> Dodge -> Mobility -> Combat Patrol (Yes, Dodge and Mobility are Core, but without combat patrol I wouldn't take them.)

Combat Expertise -> Improved Trip -> Greater Trip

-> Improved Disarm -> Greater Disarm

-> Improved Dirty Trick -> Greater Dirty Trick (Blind them and AoO for the sneak-attack win!)
Weapon Focus -> Specialization -> Greater Weapon Focus

-> Dazzling Display -> Shatter Defenses
Step Up -> Following Step -> Step Up and Strike

Disruptive -> Spellbreaker

Improved Critical

Critical Focus -> Blinding Critical

-> Staggering Critical -> Stunning Critical -> Critical Mastery

Believe it or not, I'm pretty sure that between Fighter and Rogue I've got the feats (including rogue talents) to grab most if not all of these by level 20, not that I think the game will progress that far.

My questions (besides "will the DM handle chargen the way I think he will?) are: What order should I take these feats for an intelligent progression? How do I handle a single big nasty rather than a bunch of pipsqueaks (eg, dragon vs kobolds)? Are there any cool options or pitfalls I'm overlooking? How should I prioritize ability scores and pick skills? And, does this build look like it will rule or be lame?

[subject42]

I believe that Dirty Trick is a standard action maneuver that can be negated with an action, no save. That's kind of... lackluster in my opinion.

For single enemies, how about Hamatula strike? It's a free action grapple attempt.

[Reltzik]

Negating a dirty trick requires a MOVE action, specificly. Which draws an AoO. Which would be sneak-attack damage because the target is blinded. And if it lasts more than one round, subsequent attacks would benefit from sneak attack damage. Also, consider that this build is based off of control, nerfing, and reach. If the big bad doesn't move (because his move action was spent getting rid of the sand in his eyes), can't fight effectively (if he tries something other than sand-removal), and stays in my 2-square-range sweet spot while my allies are free to act, that's a win for me.

(Coincidentally, one fixes trips and disarms with move actions, and those ALSO draw AoOs.)

The problem with grappling is that you don't do it with a dragon. It's got mega strength AND size going for it. Hmmm.... maybe grapple plus the ride skill? "OKAY! I jump on its back, grab hold, and attempt to bring it under control! What's my ride check DC?" ... no, that sounds like a DM smackdown waiting to happen.

[subject42]

Negating a dirty trick requires a MOVE action, specificly. Which draws an AoO.


Is there a general rule that all move actions provoke AoOs in Pathfinder? I can't find it anywhere. Generally it's written "as a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity". Dirty trick doesn't have that clause.



The problem with grappling is that you don't do it with a dragon. It's got mega strength AND size going for it. Hmmm.... maybe grapple plus the ride skill? "OKAY! I jump on its back, grab hold, and attempt to bring it under control! What's my ride check DC?" ... no, that sounds like a DM smackdown waiting to happen.

The benefit of Hamatula strike is that it's a free action grapple attempt, which means that you don't lose anything in terms of action economy.

Additionally, Pathfinder cut the size bonuses in half for grapples, and so far as I can tell, removed the hard cap size categories.